Mention League of Legends in app/interview? (Serious)

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Threaten them
SouthernSurgeon said:
Do you want to fight the man and crusade for your personal cause while getting offended that someone doesn't think it's special enough?

Or do you want advice on how to get into med school?

Because it sounded like the OP wanted the latter. What has been said here is exactly what will be said in an adcom meeting. The generation making the decisions thinks this is a hobby, a time sink, and a sign of immaturity. They will worry about how it impacts your studying and your dedication to medicine.

Maybe in twenty years no one will care, but the adcoms of today do. So as much as you FEELS it should be a legitimate accomplishment, focusing on it in your med school application is a mistake. You'd have to hope you have NickNaylor on your admissions committee advocating heavily for you and successfully convincing a room full of people with grey hairs that he is right and they are wrong.
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Just bring some Desert Eagles to you interview and show them how good you are. But make sure on the trip there you walk with your combat knife out, cuz that's lighter and you'll get more speed/stamina.

(Disclaimer: I'm being sarcastic and please don't take this is a real recommendation to destroy your own life and hurt others).
 
While your situation is more unique than most, I think it's still far too risky because of exactly how adcoms like Goro and gyngyn perceive gaming. Even though it's become far more acceptable among the younger generation, medicine and the adcoms to med schools are still dominated by relatively conservative 'old-school' people. It might pique the interest of some people who are more accepting, but it will absolutely come at the expense of not being taken seriously at most places.
 
SouthernSurgeon said:
Do you want to fight the man and crusade for your personal cause while getting offended that someone doesn't think it's special enough?

Or do you want advice on how to get into med school?

Because it sounded like the OP wanted the latter. What has been said here is exactly what will be said in an adcom meeting. The generation making the decisions thinks this is a hobby, a time sink, and a sign of immaturity. They will worry about how it impacts your studying and your dedication to medicine.

Maybe in twenty years no one will care, but the adcoms of today do. So as much as you FEELS it should be a legitimate accomplishment, focusing on it in your med school application is a mistake. You'd have to hope you have NickNaylor on your admissions committee advocating heavily for you and successfully convincing a room full of people with grey hairs that he is right and they are wrong.
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Did you read the last line of my post? I said "I would not mention it." It doesn't matter whether or not competitive gaming is something that should be respected. The older generation doesn't like it, and since they are the ones admitting my generation into medical school, we have to conform to their liking in this scenario even if we don't agree with them.

For what its worth, I think that it is an ignorant viewpoint and slightly bigoted for people to see only the negatives of gaming while citing things like addiction examples and antisocial behaviors. These qualities are certainly not relevant for most avid gamers. Like I said before, it does not matter because it is not worth taking the risk on a med school app in this day and age.
 
On top of all that's been written, you should consider that many people don't know what LoL is and what it takes to play competitively. I used to play LoL competitively in a past life (back before Solomid.net existed -I stopped playing mid 2011), so I know. The fact you've managed your academics and ECs the way you have while playing competitively is, to me, incredibly impressive.

To me, that shows you're on top of everything and can manage time so much so I wouldn't be worried about letting you into medical school. But I know the game intimately as I was a competitive player myself. To twist this, I'm on the bandwagon that believes gaming, for a large part of the population, can be a real detriment, and it's a risk more often than it's not. That's balanced out from you being competitive (and if I was in admissions, I'd sure as hell verify you). If you mentioned the game even to me in the application and you weren't a bona fide competitive player, I'd reject you. Because at that point, it's equivalent to any other hobby, like a sport, but I'd never known someone to fall off the wagon playing soccer but I have known MANY people to do so gaming. You could respond with harsh rhetoric, but at the admissions level you're thinking of practical issues and observable human behavior, and not what responses a 300 level formal logic class can bring out.

Point is, if this was any other game I wouldn't feel the same. I just happen to be a former competitive player of the same game. I'm a youngin' and in college, and I didn't know what Instagram was until recently because I like to read PLoS and Nature Review. The odds of admissions knowing intimate details of the game you're playing is ridiculously small, be it now or ever.
 
milk1993 said:
For what its worth, I think that it is an ignorant viewpoint and slightly bigoted for people to see only the negatives of gaming while citing things like addiction examples and antisocial behaviors. These qualities are certainly not relevant for most avid gamers. Like I said before, it does not matter because it is not worth taking the risk on a med school app in this day and age.
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We are merely reporting the likely perceptions in order to answer OP's query. Your posts appear to accuse us of bigotry and "douchbaggery."
 
gyngyn said:
We are merely reporting the likely perceptions in order to answer OP's query. Your posts appear to accuse us of bigotry and "douchbaggery."
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That is because I sense a bit of a condescending tone in some of the replies in this thread. Then again it is communication over the internet, so who knows.
 
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darkjedi said:
While your situation is more unique than most, I think it's still far too risky because of exactly how adcoms like Goro and gyngyn perceive gaming. Even though it's become far more acceptable among the younger generation, medicine and the adcoms to med schools are still dominated by relatively conservative 'old-school' people. It might pique the interest of some people who are more accepting, but it will absolutely come at the expense of not being taken seriously at most places.
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I would agree with you if it were simply listing "gaming" as a hobby or something along those lines in your app. In this case, the OP can point to making six figures doing the activity. How many applicants have made six figures doing something and then apply to medical school? That in and of itself is pretty damn impressive - whether that money is earned from gaming, mowing lawns, or selling a novel invention. That is, I think, what distinguishes this. If people fail to recognize that earning six figures doing anything is some sign of success because it's from "gaming," then they're missing the forest for the trees.

As @SouthernSurgeon mentioned it's a bit of a moot point as none of us will be able to convince people otherwise, but I see this as somewhat different because there are objective measures of success that the OP can point to. Clearly he's doing something productive and doing it well.
 
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My advice is that you contact adcoms at the schools you are interested in and ask for their general advice (ex. how should I describe competitive gaming on my amcas?). Though not nearly as taboo as listing webcam services as a form of self employment, competitive gaming has gotten a bad rap these past few years with news of competitive gamers playing to their deaths. Not to mention that the medical community is still very conservative, and the immediate reactions from this thread is a testament to that.

I personally don't see the harm in mentioning it as a form of self- employment so long as it's not listed as one of your 3 "most meaningful' activities, and it's no longer something that you do (because of the huge time commitment competitive gaming requires, it'll impede upon your medical school education and training.) I wouldn't try to extrapolate it to your desire to pursue medicine... Just briefly describe what it is and list your accomplishments. Your other business ventures should be listed as well to show that you aren't gaming because you were unemployed and that you have had a diverse employment experience as a nontrad. But overall, it's more trouble than it's worth.

You will also want to capitalize on your research and clinical experience in your essays/personal statement as those are the experiences medical schools typically focus on. I'm also guessing that you have a non-clinical volunteer experience but just forgot to list it.
 
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Holmwood said:
My advice is that you contact adcoms at the schools you are interested in and ask for their general advice (ex. how should I describe competitive gaming on my amcas?). Though not nearly as taboo as listing webcam services as a form of self employment, competitive gaming has gotten a bad rap these past few years with news of competitive gamers playing to their deaths. Not to mention that the medical community is still very conservative, and the immediate reactions from this thread is a testament to that.

I personally don't see the harm in mentioning it as a form of self- employment so long as it's not listed as one of your 3 "most meaningful' activities, and it's no longer something that you do (because of the huge time commitment competitive gaming requires, it'll impede upon your medical school education and training.) I wouldn't try to extrapolate it to your desire to pursue medicine... Just briefly describe what it is and list your accomplishments. Your other business ventures should be listed as well to show that you aren't gaming because you were unemployed and that you have had a diverse employment experience as a nontrad. But overall, it's more trouble than it's worth.

You will also want to capitalize on your research and clinical experience in your essays/personal statement as those are the experiences medical schools typically focus on. I'm also guessing that you have a non-clinical volunteer experience but just forgot to list it.
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you can't really contact adcoms. If you call/email the admissions office, it will be the receptionist or other admissions office person answering that phone or replying to the email. These people are usually not on the admissions committee. What they say will not necessarily be how each individual committee members view this topic.
 
hoihaie said:
you can't really contact adcoms. If you call/email the admissions office, it will be the receptionist or other admissions office person answering that phone or replying to the email. These people are usually not on the admissions committee. What they say will not necessarily be how each individual committee members view this topic.
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I read somewhere that reapplicants were able to have some advisory person at the medical school to give them feedback about their application (not all schools offer this feedback). My impression was that those are the people the OP needs to ask. I did say adcom out of habit so I apologize, lol.
 
They think "Adcoms" don't have other day jobs... this funny.
 
caffeinemia said:
Threaten them

Just bring some Deagles to you interview and show them how good you are. But make sure on the trip there you walk with your combat knife out, cuz that's lighter and you'll get more speed/stamina.

(Disclaimer: I'm being sarcastic and please don't take this is a real recommendation to destroy your own life and hurt others).
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FTFY 🙂 oh counter strike...

OP @Furan, I would recommend listening to the elder voices of gyngyn and goro. Pander to the adcoms, give them what they want so you can get what you want. One day these biases and injustices against gamers will pass but today is not that day. In all honesty mad respect for your skillz and >300 apm haha, I wished I was that 133t.
 
Trying to impress adcoms with your professional gaming winnings makes about as much sense as trying to impress professional gamers with your MCAT score in-game.

I'm sure Complexity would love to hear about your 37 when you get ganked.
 
Haven't read the whole thread, but I think it will be all about how you talk about it. This has earned you a considerable income. You have found a way to earn 60,000 a year doing something you love. That takes commitment, creativity, and a good deal of business acumen.

Give me the accountant who grinds out a job he hates for $50,500 counting beans and a person who has figured out how to earn $60,000 playing videos games and I'm taking the gamer every time.
 
Preface: Pre-Med student opinion.
I would include it. I would focus on the financial aspect by saying the opportunity arose for you to provide for yourself/family through the avenue of gaming. Your stats don't lie, and any adcom who would reject someone purely on the basis of your gaming with your stats based off an assumption of "Immaturity" or "Fear of dedication/addiction hindering med school" sounds like a school I wouldn't want to go to. You've proven it has provided income while simultaneously maintaining great stats.

It is disheartening that people would look at the same time dedicated to a job that could be filing paperwork at a cubicle all day for a campus job in a completely positive aspect; Yet taking advantage of your situation which requires more skill and innovation than the forementioned job, even when not sacrificing academics is looked down upon because of a social stigma against video games.
 
milk1993 said:
I think it is pathetic this stigma still exists. You can tell in Goro and gyngyn's comments that their view is why this stigma exists. Of course video game addiction ruins lives, so does alcoholism and every other type of addiction.
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milk1993 said:
When our generation is older, I believe that the video game stigma will be eradicated. Honestly your situation should be comparable to someone playing a major/minor league sport and making an income that way. Personally I think it shows a level of dedication and commitment unrivaled by "real" sports, as I believe e-sports are much more mentally taxing in addition to the technical skill they require. It is certainly not easy to be one of the best in a competitive video game, and it is not all fun and games to reach that point.

That said, I would not mention it. It can only hurt based on the ages of the people looking at your application. If I ever become an adcom, I will definitely applaud professional gamers, though.
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Your comments are self-defeating. If someone was a competitive beer drinker for money, interviewers would have concerns about them too... There's concern about people who game a ton because it's very addictive, whether you want to admit it or not.

unrivaled by real sports? are you joking me. yeah some dude on the LCS is totally more committed and dedicated than lebron. jesus christ
 
as a gamer myself (WOW, hearthstone, some CS:GO and LOL but not much), I would highly recommend putting it. do you stream or travel for tournaments? it could hurt you, but it could also help you so much. most pre-meds that i have met are bland people without anything interesting to talk about passionately. if your making 6 figures off of it you are clearly very skilled, dedicated, able to network well, get a long with a team, etc. you need to convey that you aren't sitting a couch playing mario kart with your friends or something, but that shouldn't be that hard.

honestly i am somewhat surprised by the response you have gotten. LOL has become such a spectator sport that a lot of bars do events, and it is getting a lot of coverage. Also I feel like most of the conservative doctor types would have read about LOL or competitive gaming from an investment stand point. I have seen it pop up in the WSJ a few times i think.

i put homebrewing on my application, and i was concerned it might be taken in a negative light. it came up when i interviewed and one person had a negative vibe about it. i just said i treated it like cooking, and instead of bring a desert dish to someones house i brought a 6 pack of beer. kinda just left it at that and i don't think it hurt me. if you have responses to criticism then it won't be an issue
 
PL198 said:
Your comments are self-defeating. If someone was a competitive beer drinker for money, interviewers would have concerns about them too... There's concern about people who game a ton because it's very addictive, whether you want to admit it or not.

unrivaled by real sports? are you joking me. yeah some dude on the LCS is totally more committed and dedicated than lebron. jesus christ
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People keep bringing this up, but let me say this: gaming isn't inherently addictive (it's not nicotine). Let's just say that people with addictive personalities are more likely to develop a gaming addiction (or any other type of addiction you can have), rather than labeling the act in general.

Playing a lot ≠ addiction. Playing a lot and not being able to stop (i.e. foregoing academics) = addiction.
 
hoihaie said:
Things you wouldn't say to your girlfriend/boyfriend's parents the first time you meet them should probably be left out from your app.
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"I've made six figures, consecutively, over that past few years playing a video game and have achieved financial independence whilst maintaining my academic integrity and applying to medical school."

idk, I'd be impressed.


EDIT: mmmm, sex figures.
 
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medic86 said:
People keep bringing this up, but let me say this: gaming isn't inherently addictive (it's not nicotine). Let's just say that people with addictive personalities are more likely to develop a gaming addiction (or any other type of addiction you can have), rather than labeling the act in general.

Playing a lot ≠ addiction. Playing a lot and not being able to stop (i.e. foregoing academics) = addiction.
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very true. even a lot of high level players seem to have a good balance, and based on streams i watch, i would say that the average pro gamer is just as well rounded and socially adjusted as the average pre-med.
 
medic86 said:
People keep bringing this up, but let me say this: gaming isn't inherently addictive (it's not nicotine). Let's just say that people with addictive personalities are more likely to develop a gaming addiction (or any other type of addiction you can have), rather than labeling the act in general.

Playing a lot ≠ addiction. Playing a lot and not being able to stop (i.e. foregoing academics) = addiction.
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you can spin it however you want. lots of people end up addicted to gaming. any " stigma" attached to playing video games for large amounts of time is deserved.
 
PL198 said:
you can spin it however you want. lots of people end up addicted to gaming. any " stigma" attached to playing video games for large amounts of time is deserved.
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Are you "addicted" to your job because you do it X hours a day?

I dunno, seems like a stupid argument. Assuming someone is addicted to something because they spend a good amount of time doing it (especially if they're getting paid to do so) don't make no sense.
 
I'm not assuming they're addicted, I'm saying if you hear someone does something that is addictive a lot, the concern about addiction and doing that thing less would pop into any rational persons head. I have no idea how much a LCS quality player spends playing league per day, I'm gonna guess its more than would be possible daily during medical school.

again, if you were a professional beer drinker, there would be concerns over how that would adjust to being in medical school
 
J Senpai said:
"I've made sex figures, consecutively, over that past few years playing a video game and have achieved financial independence whilst maintaining my academic integrity and applying to medical school."

idk, I'd be impressed.
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J Senpai said:
I'm not taking his word for it, but we're all operating within the framework he provided, so...it's all hypothetic.
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See bold above.
 
yeah because a 5 page article totally contributes to the discussion.

lemme go read this paper so I can have an internet debate...oh wait
 
milk1993 said:
That is because I sense a bit of a condescending tone in some of the replies in this thread. Then again it is communication over the internet, so who knows.
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you see condescension because you want to. I play league every couple weeks but I can still recognize how there would be concerns over a student who was playing it for large of amounts of time every day. It's impressive that someone would get paid that much to play league, but I also can see how doing so would make a transition to medical school more difficult, so I wouldn't mention it.
 
PL198 said:
again, if you were a professional beer drinker, there would be concerns over how that would adjust to being in medical school
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stupid comparison IMO. i have never heard of a professional beer drinker, its not something that is going to ever get respect. professional gaming on the other hand is. a better comparison would be a professional poker player. that would have similar risks as professional gaming, but i think the overall opinion would be to put it. poker is all over tv now, and i expect e-sports will be following a similar model eventually.

Also, i don't get why an adcom should care or speculate if they are 'addicted'. if you prove yourself academically, and check the other boxes, then you are at the worst a high-functioning video game addict. thats still not really a concern.
 
J Senpai said:
"I've made six figures, consecutively, over that past few years playing a video game and have achieved financial independence whilst maintaining my academic integrity and applying to medical school."

idk, I'd be impressed.


EDIT: mmmm, sex figures.
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You would. I would too. But all my parents or my friends' parents are going to see is... "you play video games? for a living...???"

Until our generation becomes the old parental figures, stigma about video games will likely persist.
 
Goro said:
When ESPN starts covering video game playing, then I guess it won't have such a stigma for my generation.
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They already have. Last years Call of Duty national championship was covered by ESPN. http://www.dailydot.com/esports/x-games-mlg-espn-call-of-duty/

Although, I do agree with general sentiment in here. I personally don't see a problem with it. Hell, I listed video games as a hobby in my residency application (and I got great feedback from that, believe it or not. I had a chair of a program tell me that there is crossover from that and manual dexterity in the OR. Im going into a surgical field so it makes sense.)

But, just because our generation doesn't have a problem with it doesn't mean previous generations don't. There are still much stigma associated with it. Another taboo thing that gets talked about a lot on here is supporting political orgs. You never know who is going to view your application. It may be the one faculty member in the entire school who has a bias against whatever activity you are trying to highlight. I would just try and stay as neutral as possible and maybe just mention video games, not go into deep detail about how successful you are in it.

If it comes up in an interview and the person interviewing you seems receptive to video games then explain more.
 
PL198 said:
yeah because a 5 page article totally contributes to the discussion.

lemme go read this paper so I can have an internet debate...oh wait
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It's not even a debate, jingoistic avatar person. I've just found it annoying with people throwing "gaming addiction" around when we are yet to see any research perspectives on the subject. You don't have to read it, but it's there for anyone who wants to look at the current scientific perspectives on video game addiction and its implications.
 
jingoistic.... lolol
 
PL198 said:
I'm not assuming they're addicted, I'm saying if you hear someone does something that is addictive a lot, the concern about addiction and doing that thing less would pop into any rational persons head. I have no idea how much a LCS quality player spends playing league per day, I'm gonna guess its more than would be possible daily during medical school.

again, if you were a professional beer drinker, there would be concerns over how that would adjust to being in medical school
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Come on now, there is some personal bias laced in there. A better analogy would be a professional poker player. If an applicant had been a professional poker player before and had been very successful at it I would bet that most adcoms would be MUCH more receptive to that compared to video games. I bet there would be very few questions about "are you addicted to gambling? are you going to have to take a LOA to rehab from your gambling addiction?" Gambling addictions are just as real as addiction to anything else, yet I would bet playing poker well would go over much better for those people in the 40+ age range. It is just because poker playing is an acceptable hobby for the older generation while video games are not.

Hell, I bet if you listed you were a professional wine sommelier or a connoisseur of fine cigars that would even go better than playing video games as a job. They probably wouldn't get any questions about being addicted to alcohol or tobacco. The older generation just has this ingrained idea that video games are for wasting time, for people who lack actual skills.
 
playing poker recreationally(once a week with friends) is an accepted hobby. again I'm assuming it's pretty time-consuming maintaining that level of league skill, so lets say its 8 hours a day. If you played poker recreationally 8 hours a day, they'd have questions too.

testing wine and cigars isn't anything addictive like online gaming is.
 
Goro said:
When ESPN starts covering video game playing, then I guess it won't have such a stigma for my generation.
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May be a bit late here but ESPN did in fact cover the international Dota 2 tournament (essentially the world series of Dota 2), and were quite pleased with the viewer outcome

http://www.dailydot.com/esports/espn-dota-2-the-international/

And, while I'd like to see competitive gaming become a less stigmatized hobby, considering how much practicing, coordination, and forethought needs to go into a winning strategy, the community is still wrought with immaturity, vulgar language, racism etc. that is going to make streamlining this process difficult.
 
Man, some of you guys are really delusional about how widely accepted video games are and how conservative older docs are.

You really think because the hipster bar near your house has LoL tournaments the surgeon who lives in the suburbs and spends all his time in OR has any idea what that is? I think almost all of us are sympathetic to the OP, but a lot of the premeds in here are giving bad advice because they're trying to convince themselves that their gaming hobby will be legit when it comes time for them to apply. The risk/benefit calculation is nowhere near worth it. At best it's going to get ignored, at worst it's going to make you look really bad.
 
PL198 said:
playing poker recreationally(once a week with friends) is an accepted hobby. again I'm assuming it's pretty time-consuming maintaining that level of league skill, so lets say its 8 hours a day. If you played poker recreationally 8 hours a day, they'd have questions too.

testing wine and cigars isn't anything addictive like online gaming is.
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So what if you played poker professionally? How is that different from playing video games professionally? What if you listed you were a bartender before medical school?

Also, can you give some supporting evidence that being in the wine industry or cigar industry isn't as likely to lead to a tobacco or alcohol addiction or at least the risk is less so than playing online video games?
 
1000% this.


mcloaf said:
Man, some of you guys are really delusional about how widely accepted video games are and how conservative older docs are.

You really think because the hipster bar near your house has LoL tournaments the surgeon who lives in the suburbs and spends all his time in OR has any idea what that is? I think almost all of us are sympathetic to the OP, but a lot of the premeds in here are giving bad advice because they're trying to convince themselves that their gaming hobby will be legit when it comes time for them to apply. The risk/benefit calculation is nowhere near worth it. At best it's going to get ignored, at worst it's going to make you look really bad.
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I've seen apps from professional poker players. Unlike video games, these are at least face-to-face interactions.

At my school, we like candidates who can physically deal with other people.


tiedyeddog said:
So what if you played poker professionally? How is that different from playing video games professionally? What if you listed you were a bartender before medical school?

Also, can you give some supporting evidence that being in the wine industry or cigar industry isn't as likely to lead to a tobacco or alcohol addiction or at least the risk is less so than playing online video games?
Click to expand...
 
mcloaf said:
Man, some of you guys are really delusional about how widely accepted video games are and how conservative older docs are.

You really think because the hipster bar near your house has LoL tournaments the surgeon who lives in the suburbs and spends all his time in OR has any idea what that is? I think almost all of us are sympathetic to the OP, but a lot of the premeds in here are giving bad advice because they're trying to convince themselves that their gaming hobby will be legit when it comes time for them to apply. The risk/benefit calculation is nowhere near worth it. At best it's going to get ignored, at worst it's going to make you look really bad.
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I agree with you. I wish it was not so but it is.
 
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