Michigan Medicine - University of Michigan

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diabeticfootdr

diabeticfootdr

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Excellent opportunity for a podiatrist with a top-tier medical school.
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CutsWithFury said:
Another nothing burger. Two years???? This wont get you cases for boards. This makes you a wound care “expert”.
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This isn’t about being a wound care expert. It’s about getting the necessary publications and “experience” to become faculty at a major University medical school/hospital system.

For the person who wants to be in academics, wound care is the most likely way you will accomplish that as a podiatrist and this fellowship is probably one of a couple that would actually help you. Not my cup of tea but this one at least makes some sense.
 
ToeFather said:
www.indeed.com

Podiatrist - Anniston, AL 36207 - Indeed.com

Anniston Medical Clinic, PC
www.indeed.com www.indeed.com

Excellent podiatry job opportunity in Alabama! $83,000-$97,000 salary. Must be efficient in foot and ankle surgery! (That only required 11 years of education and $300,000 in debt for).
Click to expand...
This is not even working for another podiatrist. I am sure the insurance mix is not good, but a 3 year surgical residency now only gets you $80,000?
 
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Like I posted in the other thread, anyone breaking the TOS will be given warnings from here on. Learn to ignore; no need to post and comment on everything. Please be professionals.
 
My post was deleted by the mods but I will say it again.

This 2 year fellowship is overrated. It won't help you get cases to sit for ABFAS boards. It won't make you a real limb salvage expert. You will just pump out publications and debride wounds. When it comes to real reconstruction to save limbs this program is not it.

If you want to be academic podiatrist and literally be limited to handful of positions that are similar to this for the rest of your career. Please knock yourself out.
 
I agree with dtrack - this is designed to lead to a very specific career path. I wish whoever wishes to pursue it all the luck in the world.

Its mostly cringe to me
-Two years is a long time. I was personally ready to be out and to be my own person. I don't know what the surgical component of this program is, but the last 3 years for me have been a time of explosive progression in my surgical ability.
-You may be able to convince someone in the MD world that you have value.
-You should practice in a state that includes at least soft tissue up to the tibial tuberosity to maximize your wound territory.
-This program shouldn't have to advertise. It shouldn't be in PM News. Fellowships should be known simply by reputation or the quality of their publications. Similarly, it bodes poorly that all the graduates are VA or NY program grads.
-My town is saturated with "Medical" providers of wound care. Fancy abx culture people and HBO for all, but wounds going on for years without any consideration of deformity. I like one of my local wound care center docs but he once asked me if there were "different types of hammertoes". If you want to serve people with wounds well - be an excellent surgeon. People with wounds are already drowning in people who will see them weekly and pack their feet with overpriced crap.
 
heybrother said:
-Two years is a long time. I was personally ready to be out and to be my own person.
Click to expand...

You have to finish publications. Not uncommon for these research/academia career tracks to “require” multi-year or multiple fellowships. Not like a hard requirement, but the dozens of papers you’ve authored between residency and fellowship is more appealing to the hiring committee at Johns Hopkins than cutswithfury’s actual wound care expertise. And 2 years gives you the time to actually produce something worthwhile.

You want an easy way in to the consulting world? Do Hyer’s fellowship. Want to live in the ivory tower and live off of your own research fellows pumping out papers for you? Do a fellowship like this one. It appears to serve a purpose to the person whose goals are aligned with benefit this could theoretically provide. I really don’t get why some people are struggling to see the value of a program like this to some resident who wants to be more like Armstrong than Ng. Certainly having more podiatrists within the big University health systems is not a bad thing.
 
dtrack22 said:
You have to finish publications. Not uncommon for these research/academia career tracks to “require” multi-year or multiple fellowships. Not like a hard requirement, but the dozens of papers you’ve authored between residency and fellowship is more appealing to the hiring committee at Johns Hopkins than cutswithfury’s actual wound care expertise. And 2 years gives you the time to actually produce something worthwhile.

You want an easy way in to the consulting world? Do Hyer’s fellowship. Want to live in the ivory tower and live off of your own research fellows pumping out papers for you? Do a fellowship like this one. It appears to serve a purpose to the person whose goals are aligned with benefit this could theoretically provide. I really don’t get why some people are struggling to see the value of a program like this to some resident who wants to be more like Armstrong than Ng. Certainly having more podiatrists within the big University health systems is not a bad thing.
Click to expand...

Because this fellowship leads nowhere in terms of board certification. Absolutely nowhere.

ABPM only exists to get podiatrists like these certified.

You will accrue the case volume or diversity to sit for boards. You will lose two years doing a program like this. If you don’t want to do surgery then do this fellowship and get ABPM certified.
 
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Members don't see this ad :)
I do find not having any residents or fellows to train takes a lot out of me to publish even one paper... lots of work, time and annoyance.
 
CutsWithFury said:
Because this fellowship leads nowhere in terms of board certification. Absolutely nowhere.
Click to expand...

It’s not necessarily designed to. Though you could still get numbers for boards even with a 2 year fellowship in academia. This is how you start lecturing (classroom and CME) and doing clinical trials and not actually treating patients while being employed by Stanford, or USC, or Michigan or Ohio State.

Board certification is really irrelevant to this entire thread, it’s a weird thing to fixate on here
 
dtrack22 said:
It’s not necessarily designed to. Though you could still get numbers for boards even with a 2 year fellowship in academia. This is how you start lecturing (classroom and CME) and doing clinical trials and not actually treating patients while being employed by Stanford, or USC, or Michigan or Ohio State.

Board certification is really irrelevant to this entire thread, it’s a weird thing to fixate on here
Click to expand...

What is the track record of graduates of this program? Where are they employed? What are they doing?

If they aren’t in academia then they wasted two years and will have a hard time getting board certified
 
CutsWithFury said:
What is the track record of graduates of this program? Where are they employed? What are they doing?

If they aren’t in academia then they wasted two years and will have a hard time getting board certified
Click to expand...
Check LinkedIn...
 
I can be as hard as anyone on the job market, because it is true.

As far as a fellowship like this, I see no reason not to support it. It is obvious it is for a very specific career path. We can not complain and have it both ways that there are not enough residencies and fellowships at respected institutions and not enough quality research in our journals.

When I was a student and there were not even enough residencies for everyone I knew nothing about fellowships, I was observing surgery and meet a resident that was going to do one. First time a I had heard of podiatry fellowships. I was curious and asked him why he was going to do one as he already had a residency with surgical training. He told me “because it is a dog eat dog world in podiatry“. He said this right in front of the attending who was one of those successful professionally and academically and also humble and an all around good person, that do exist in this profession.

That is what bothers me with this profession so much. It is still a dog eat dog world and only so many can be at the top and you really do not want to be at the bottom. I am convinced the type of people going into to podiatry are not better or worse than those goinng into other healthcare professions. It is just supply and demand for jobs in this profession are not great and this causes people to sometimes act in ways that they would not otherwise.

The profession has come a long ways in that all now get three year residencies, but the expectations are higher than when you only did four years with a preceptorship or optional residency for students entering this profession.

A decline in enrollment is a good this for this profession. No one can convince me otherwise. Decades of promised increased demand by our leaders has not been true. There is still a need for what we do, even if there is saturation. Increased demand is not really there, we need to acknowledge this as a profession.

I wonder how many doing fellowships are doing so only to get the jobs they were more than qualified enough to get without one, but needed to do something to one up,others applying for the good jobs that there are just not enough of. Are they doing fellowships for this reason or a real desire to specialize in an area because of an interest that is not primarily motivated by money/job market.
 
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icebreaker32 said:
I can be as hard as anyone on the job market, because it is true.

As far as a fellowship like this, I see no reason not to support it. It is obvious it is for a very specific career path. We can not complain and have it both ways that there are not enough residencies and fellowships at respected institutions and not enough quality research in our journals.

When I was a student and there were not even enough residencies for everyone I knew nothing about fellowships, I was observing surgery and meet a resident that was going to do one. First time a I had heard of podiatry fellowships. I was curious and asked him why he was going to do one as he already had a residency with surgical training. He told me “because it is a dog eat dog world in podiatry“. He said this right in front of the attending who was one of those successful professionally and academically and also humble and an all around good person, that do exist in this profession.

That is what bothers me with this profession so much. It is still a dog eat dog world and only so many can be at the top and you really do not want to be at the bottom. I am convinced the type of people going into to podiatry are not better or worse than those goinng into other healthcare professions. It is just supply and demand for jobs in this profession are not great and this causes people to sometimes act in ways that they would not otherwise.

The profession has come a long ways in that all now get three year residencies, but the expectations are higher than when you only did four years with a preceptorship or optional residency for students entering this profession.

A decline in enrollment is a good this for this profession. No one can convince me otherwise. Decades of promised increased demand by our leaders has not been true. There is still a need for what we do, even if there is saturation. Increased demand is not really there, we need to acknowledge this as a profession.

I wonder how many doing fellowships are doing so only to get the jobs they were more than qualified enough to get without one, but needed to do something to one up,others applying for the good jobs that there are just not enough of. Are they doing fellowships for this reason or a real desire to specialize in an area because of an interest that is not primarily motivated by money/job market.
Click to expand...
99 percent are doing in order to be better applicants.
 
diabeticfootdr said:
Dr. Johnson is a great role model and illustrative of the product of this program. Academic medicine isn’t for everyone, but positions like these elevate our profession and should be lauded, not belittled.
Click to expand...
One person. How are the other graduates of the program doing? He also didn't even graduate from the Michigan program. He did UPENN and got plugged into the APMA lecture circuit because Dr. Malay is the gatekeeper and made it happen.
 
The UMich jobs (attending) were generally considered a joke when I worked up there. One of my seniors had done an interview with them and came back laughing to the resident room at what the actual day-to-day job was ("they don't let podiatrists do JACK"). Many "prestige" jobs are unfortunately similar. It will take a looong time for those to ever change incrementally. UM did not get very good applicants for their DPM slots although the pay was decent... mediocre residencies at best. They will improve, but I sure didn't acquire quality skills just to be a sacrificial lamb to that possible end of another DPM one day maybe being able to perhaps use some of those type of sills. Life is too short... go where you are treated best.

This is the case for Duke, Jefferson, Wisconsin, most Ivy league, and many other 'name' hospitals also. The problem is that, like many big academic centers, DPMs at UMich get the scraps of the scraps of the scraps... venous ulcers, toe ulcers, routine DFC, Rx shoes, etc. It plainly says that on their hospital website and in the job description. Basically, they get to do the things a DPM should be able to do after one year of residency. The funny part is that they demand fairly well trained or even fellowship to do these basic C&C and wound care gigs.

Very few pods are even any given any significant forefoot elective/trauma bone surgery privileges or referrals in these setups (they have to scrounge for even bunions, hallux rigidus, etc among diabetic pts... VA style). RRA is generally not even possible, no matter what training the DPM has, based on privileging. As long as people keep taking the jobs, they will keep creating them. They are almost as bad as the "ortho group" jobs where they have an Ortho F&A in the group... and the DPM just does most of the orthotics and injects and wounds.

When I was in the UMich region (PP and then MSG), I would see a few patients who had Charcot recon, mid/rearfoot trauma, etc prior in UMich... all done by ortho F&A or gen ortho there. The univ has a top 10-20 gen ortho residency as well as many fellowships (no F&A training program, but multiple F&A and trauma ortho faculty). Any surgery aside from basic amps that I saw was never done by the "UM" podiatrists. A few patients saw a DPM in UM wound center and were then sent to UM Ortho for any recon. I hope that has changed and keeps changing, but I would seriously doubt it has. Could it be like UPMC or Wake in a decade or two with DPMs and ortho getting more cooperative and pods doing at least some RRA? Unlikely but remotely possible. There are only a very finite number of "big name" systems where that occurs, and UMich is definitely not one.

This 'fellowship' could work for someone who wants to get this name on their resume and doesn't care much for surgery or major recon, but you won't pick up any real skills. Again, a simple look at the way they market podiatry tells you all you need to know.

The one I do know personally who is at UM (I have met a few but only any significant convo with one) is probably using one third of their training and skill set in the UM setup. It is never bad to be over-trained for what you do. It does help the profession. That is fine for some (esp if $ is good), but not fine for most well-trained... and virtually no reason to do additional low-pay fellowship year(s) to get that gig where you are mandated to refer out much of what you had trained to do:

Find a Doctor | University of Michigan Health

www.uofmhealth.org www.uofmhealth.org
 
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Feli said:
The UMich jobs (attending) were generally considered a joke when I worked up there. One of my seniors had done an interview with them and came back laughing to the resident room at what the actual day-to-day job was ("they don't let podiatrists do JACK"). Many "prestige" jobs are unfortunately similar. It will take a looong time for those to ever change incrementally. UM did not get very good applicants for their DPM slots although the pay was decent... mediocre residencies at best. They will improve, but I sure didn't acquire quality skills just to be a sacrificial lamb to that possible end of another DPM one day maybe being able to perhaps use some of those type of sills. Life is too short... go where you are treated best.

This is the case for Duke, Jefferson, Wisconsin, most Ivy league, and many other 'name' hospitals also. The problem is that, like many big academic centers, DPMs at UMich get the scraps of the scraps of the scraps... venous ulcers, toe ulcers, routine DFC, Rx shoes, etc. It plainly says that on their hospital website and in the job description. Basically, they get to do the things a DPM should be able to do after one year of residency. The funny part is that they demand fairly well trained or even fellowship to do these basic C&C and wound care gigs.

Very few pods are even any given any significant forefoot elective/trauma bone surgery privileges or referrals in these setups (they have to scrounge for even bunions, hallux rigidus, etc among diabetic pts... VA style). RRA is generally not even possible, no matter what training the DPM has, based on privileging. As long as people keep taking the jobs, they will keep creating them. They are almost as bad as the "ortho group" jobs where they have an Ortho F&A in the group... and the DPM just does most of the orthotics and injects and wounds.

When I was in the UMich region (PP and then MSG), I would see a few patients who had Charcot recon, mid/rearfoot trauma, etc prior in UMich... all done by ortho F&A or gen ortho there. The univ has a top 10-20 gen ortho residency as well as many fellowships (no F&A training program, but multiple F&A and trauma ortho faculty). Any surgery aside from basic amps that I saw was never done by the "UM" podiatrists. A few patients saw a DPM in UM wound center and were then sent to UM Ortho for any recon. I hope that has changed and keeps changing, but I would seriously doubt it has. Could it be like UPMC or Wake in a decade or two with DPMs and ortho getting more cooperative and pods doing at least some RRA? Unlikely but remotely possible. There are only a very finite number of "big name" systems where that occurs, and UMich is definitely not one.

This 'fellowship' could work for someone who wants to get this name on their resume and doesn't care much for surgery or major recon, but you won't pick up any real skills. Again, a simple look at the way they market podiatry tells you all you need to know.

The one I do know personally who is at UM (I have met a few but only any significant convo with one) is probably using one third of their training and skill set in the UM setup. It is never bad to be over-trained for what you do. It does help the profession. That is fine for some (esp if $ is good), but not fine for most well-trained... and virtually no reason to do additional low-pay fellowship year(s) to get that gig where you are mandated to refer out much of what you had trained to do:

Find a Doctor | University of Michigan Health

www.uofmhealth.org www.uofmhealth.org
Click to expand...
I must be a bad candidate. I applied to a Duke podiatry job and it was never filled. They ended up hiring a foot and ankle orthopedist instead. In house Recruiter could not explain what happened.

I will admit applied to it because of the location and name it was a low surgery job. Maybe I needed one of these fellowships. 😒
 
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