Mid Career Crisis as a Hospitalist

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m1lktea

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I’m a practicing hospitalist that’s looking for a change, but hesitant to make the leap. I am about 7 years post grad.

Curious if anyone has switched from inpatient medicine to any subacute gigs, telemedicine, or the private sector (ie Utilization, informatics, etc) full time?

Eager for some advice!

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looking back, I don’t remember seeing any hospitalists over 45 at my place. Hospitalist careers seem pretty short lived.
 
open up your own private practice and do GIM.

GIM really isnt as bad as you remember in residency. when you run the show things do get a little more pleasant.
 
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I’m a practicing hospitalist that’s looking for a change, but hesitant to make the leap. I am about 7 years post grad.

Curious if anyone has switched from inpatient medicine to any subacute gigs, telemedicine, or the private sector (ie Utilization, informatics, etc) full time?

Eager for some advice!

The advice would depend on what your exact grievance is with hospital medicine. What is it?

Don't like sick and needy patients. Be careful, the outpatient world is full of them. Don't like unnecessary admin and busy work . . . also lots of it in the outpatient world.

If you don't like the 7 on 7 off grind, there are (sometimes) solutions for that. For instance, you can be a per-diem or locums provider, essentially set up your own schedule. If you find a busy enough system, you can work whenever you want. [You don't get the benefits of being a full time employee---health insurance, CME, partnership, etc---but you may not care.]
 
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The advice would depend on what your exact grievance is with hospital medicine. What is it?

Don't like sick and needy patients. Be careful, the outpatient world is full of them. Don't like unnecessary admin and busy work . . . also lots of it in the outpatient world.

If you don't like the 7 on 7 off grind, there are (sometimes) solutions for that. For instance, you can be a per-diem or locums provider, essentially set up your own schedule. If you find a busy enough system, you can work whenever you want. [You don't get the benefits of being a full time employee---health insurance, CME, partnership, etc---but you may not care.]

The job is fine. There's always things that can be better... i.e. more pay, less admin work, etc.

My main concern is longevity of my career. The grind of inpatient medicine seems less appealing as you get older and have more obligations to the family.

That's why I'm curious about possibly shifting my focus or practice environment.
 
I’m a practicing hospitalist that’s looking for a change, but hesitant to make the leap. I am about 7 years post grad.

Curious if anyone has switched from inpatient medicine to any subacute gigs, telemedicine, or the private sector (ie Utilization, informatics, etc) full time?

Eager for some advice!
Would depend on specifically what you don't like the most about hospitalist work, and what may be driving burnout. Some of the common causes of burnout, especially among older hospitalists, include high patient volumes, increased administrative burden, being employed instead of running your own practice, and irregular work schedule (eg having to work nights, frequent holidays, every other weekend). If those are your main issues, maybe switching toa different hospitalist job may be the solution without quitting clinical medicine altogether (eg switching to a new job with lower patient census and dedicated full-time nocturnists, or switching to a job that works mostly Mon-Fri even if it means taking a pay cut). If you want to leave hospitalist medicine, most would not do it all at once. The transition is usually more gradual and involves switching from full-time to PRN/part-time/locums shifts while pursing a side gig part time until you build enough volume with it so that it can become your full time job. If the focus is finding a more family-friendly job, doing outpatient work or telemedicine are options. But those will time some time to build up a full practice so there will be a transition period where you work parttime/PRN as a hospitalist.
 
The job is fine. There's always things that can be better... i.e. more pay, less admin work, etc.

My main concern is longevity of my career. The grind of inpatient medicine seems less appealing as you get older and have more obligations to the family.

That's why I'm curious about possibly shifting my focus or practice environment.

I honestly think the hospitalist gig is probably the lesser of the two evils (outpatient vs inpatient). Of course, it depends on where you work. I'm allowed to go home once I've seen my patients, can write notes and answer pages from home (sometimes I'm home by 11AM). See the family enough (maybe too much, my kids are teenagers). Get a workout in, play a little golf.
 
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Aren’t round and go gigs hard to find?
Not uncommon, but most places won't formally advertise it as such since you're technically responsible for your patients for your full shift. If not prohibited, on rounding shifts (where you don't have any admitting responsibilities and are only covering already admitted patients) it's not uncommon to be able to cover from home for part of the shift. Of course this assumes all your patients are stable, and you may have to go back if you end up with a sick patient later in the day.
 
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Aren’t round and go gigs hard to find?

Not at all.

I tell you, when I first got out of residency, I was pleasantly surprised how easy it was. Codes/rapid responses are run by nurse teams (they don't even call me sometimes), they put in orders for you, can even consult the intensivist and transfer to the ICU. Procedures done by IR or the ICU team. Pharmacists can change antibiotics when indicated.

First few times I was so flabbergasted by the automation of it I all, I asked, "Well, what do you want me to do?!" I was told to talk the intensivist, or have family discussions (which I could do over the phone if I was in a different building or completely off campus . . . COVID made this the norm).

The automation of it all is a little concerning . . .makes me question our job security as general hospitalists.
 
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Not uncommon, but most places won't formally advertise it as such since you're technically responsible for your patients for your full shift.

Indeed you are. I don't go out drinking or anything like that (I drink at home later). Usually just working out, running errands, or at home, which is 10 minutes away. Don't abuse the system or do anything stupid and you should be fine.
 
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looking back, I don’t remember seeing any hospitalists over 45 at my place. Hospitalist careers seem pretty short lived.
That's because there are very few hospitalist programs that have been around long enough to have anyone older than 45. I helped start a Midwest hospitalist program right after my residency graduation in 2006. At that time, there were about a tenth of the number of hospitalists in the US compared to now.
 
That's because there are very few hospitalist programs that have been around long enough to have anyone older than 45. I helped start a Midwest hospitalist program right after my residency graduation in 2006. At that time, there were about a tenth of the number of hospitalists in the US compared to now.
Older physicians frequently have switched to full time hospitalist work (before the days of hospitalists, the same physicians used to work the old-fashioned way internists do, with both inpatient and outpatient responsibilities).
 
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I honestly think the hospitalist gig is probably the lesser of the two evils (outpatient vs inpatient). Of course, it depends on where you work. I'm allowed to go home once I've seen my patients, can write notes and answer pages from home (sometimes I'm home by 11AM). See the family enough (maybe too much, my kids are teenagers). Get a workout in, play a little golf.
I think hospital medicine is arguably one of the best jobs in medicine.

I don't get to leave very early like you but I can leave at 5pm. The job itself is truly 7-8 hrs and the rest of time is spent in the physician lounge watching TV and BSing with your colleagues.

300-400k/yr for a job like that is a dream. I hope that thing last another 10 yrs.

We have a new hospitalist that used to do hybrid and he told me he did not think medicine could be that cool. Now he is sitting in the lounge couch by 3pm playing in his laptop. He said he does not know what to do with all these days off.
 
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Why, what do they want you to do until 5 pm? If you're not admitting, are you responding to codes/rapid responses?
We admit on average 1 patient per day. A few people do leave earlier and come back if they have to admit.
 
We admit on average 1 patient per day. A few people do leave earlier and come back if they have to admit.
So you can leave.

I've heard of some places (Kaiser) where they force you to stay, even if you're not doing anything. Never will I work at such a place. So childish.
 
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So you can leave.

I've heard of some places (Kaiser) where they force you to stay, even if you're not doing anything. Never will I work at such a place. So childish.
Not officially but a few do it anyway.

I am the type of individual who like to follow rules
 
Palli fellowship. only 1 year. pay comparable to hospitalist but you usually have a normal schedule (4-5 day workweek, weekends and holidays off). Full time benefits and PTO. Easy to switch between inpt and outpt, or a mix.
Usually no admitting or discharging. The consultant's life is generally easier. Low patient volumes.
As long as you're ok with sick patients and lots of communication with families, it's worth considering
 
Palli fellowship. only 1 year. pay comparable to hospitalist but you usually have a normal schedule (4-5 day workweek, weekends and holidays off). Full time benefits and PTO. Easy to switch between inpt and outpt, or a mix.
Usually no admitting or discharging. The consultant's life is generally easier. Low patient volumes.
As long as you're ok with sick patients and lots of communication with families, it's worth considering

eehh, maybe. Most places I work these day, the palliative care services are run by NPs (I guess we don't want to pay physicians to have end-of-life, goals-of-care discussions)

I've also been told to just do it myself as the attending hospitalist, in conjunction with the NPs/SW/Case managers. Makes sense. We're all 'palliative' physicians at heart.
 
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Palli fellowship. only 1 year. pay comparable to hospitalist but you usually have a normal schedule (4-5 day workweek, weekends and holidays off). Full time benefits and PTO. Easy to switch between inpt and outpt, or a mix.
Usually no admitting or discharging. The consultant's life is generally easier. Low patient volumes.
As long as you're ok with sick patients and lots of communication with families, it's worth considering
I generally have seen pay for palliative care to be lower than hospitalist at the same institution. At places that they're comparable, they require palliative care physicians taking on some hospitalist shifts on top to justify the pay. Since GOC discussions with sick patients families tend to be time consuming, the amount of RVUs you end up billing aren't that high, and a lot of palliative care pay already has to be significantly subsidized by the hospital. And at many places you can do palliative care work without formally doing the 1-year fellowship either.
 
Go open your own outpatient private practice in a community with Critical Care Access Hospital (CCAH), i.e. its a 25 bed hospital in middle of nowhere. Set up your schedule how you want, and round on your 0-3 patients daily.

There are a few docs here and over in FM section who have started their own private practices.

Here is my version of how to do it, there are a few posts that might be gold, buried in there.
 
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Go open your own outpatient private practice in a community with Critical Care Access Hospital (CCAH), i.e. its a 25 bed hospital in middle of nowhere. Set up your schedule how you want, and round on your 0-3 patients daily.

There are a few docs here and over in FM section who have started their own private practices.

Here is my version of how to do it, there are a few posts that might be gold, buried in there.

Stellar advice [/sarcasm]. I'm sure 25-bed hospitals in the middle of nowhere are easy to find and exist in very desirable places to live.
 
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Stellar advice [/sarcasm]. I'm sure 25-bed hospitals in the middle of nowhere are easy to find and exist in very desirable places to live.

Right up there with timeshares and get rich quick real estate scams.
 
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There are numerous 25 bed hospitals that are in places that could be desirable as vacation centers.
And there are others that have other positive attributes that draw people to them.
Open your eyes, loosen your fingers, do some google searching.
Critical Access Hospital Locations Map | Flex Monitoring Team
Unless people believe CA and NYC are the standard bearers of civilization. Which personally I feel is akin to hell on earth.
The 25 bed CCAH hospital was brought up to point out the option of having a traditional IP/OP practice but at a much more manageable level with smaller patient census. They typical FM docs in these areas will already have a call schedule set up, so it wouldn't be an undue burden to enter the local work force.
 
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Stellar advice [/sarcasm]. I'm sure 25-bed hospitals in the middle of nowhere are easy to find and exist in very desirable places to live.
They do in fact exist in places that you might not consider rural, or those that as, @Sushirolls pointed out, may be in places that some people prefer for lifestyle purposes. I'm going to start an (outpatient, sub-specialty) job at one soon. It's closer to the nearby international airport than a lot of neighborhoods "in the city" are. And it's a hugely popular vacation/2nd home area.

The think you need to understand about CAH's is that there are a lot of them that could technically "graduate" to regular hospitals based on changes in population base, but won't, because the CMS payment differential they get means they would probably lose money if they did so.
 
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So true.

Hospitals have a sweet spot. CCAH or some bed number that's perhaps 100 beds or more, but definitely not that 25 to ~75 bed range for sure.

Supposedly, I was told that CCAH can have an additional 10 beds for psych and an additional 10 beds for LTAC / Rehab services that don't count against their 25 bed census.
 
If you're truly disgruntled by medicine, you're not going to solve your problems by starting a private practice---where now, Joe Q. Patient is your boss (ie you need to establish a panel, get credentialed at said small hospitals, 'compete' for the census, etc).

No doubt there's more flexibility in PP . . .but I wouldn't expect to make more money (nor avoid 'burnout') without hustling. There's no such thing as a free lunch in this business.

And your small 25 bed hospitals (which are ridiculously inefficient and costly) will very soon be swallowed up by larger conglomerates . . . rendering you back to where you started from.
 
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If you're truly disgruntled by medicine, you're not going to solve your problems by starting a private practice---where now, Joe Q. Patient is your boss (ie you need to establish a panel, get credentialed at said small hospitals, 'compete' for the census, etc).

No doubt there's more flexibility in PP . . .but I wouldn't expect to make more money (nor avoid 'burnout') without hustling. There's no such thing as a free lunch in this business.

And your small 25 bed hospitals (which are ridiculously inefficient and costly) will very soon be swallowed up by larger conglomerates . . . rendering you back to where you started from.
You really don't know what you are talking about.

I was burned out, opened my own practice and life is good. It is a viable solution for many people.

Secondly, when you have your own IM/FM outpatient practice, you get to choose which insurance you panel with. Or simply not...
You get to decide if you have hospital privileges or not.
Whether a CCAH is owned by Big Box shop or nor doesn't matter, because they will continue to be on the lower staffing side of things and their med bylaws won't ever change to be aggressive in pushing people out.
In other words, smaller hospitals will continue to be open to independents having privileges and doing their own thing.
The costs of the hospital don't mean anything for the independent doctors who merely practice there with the privileges. Hospital finances, not their problem.

Now, if you pick up hospital privileges, they will typically require you to be paneled with medicare (+/- medicaid) which is fine, so if you get community care patients you see them in the IP, but you don't have to take them on for outpatient primary care follow up. In private practice you can restrict or simply say you are 'capped' for new medicare/medicaid patients.

Personally I made a move from a large metro to such an area. I did recon on several areas of interest and choose the better one for my personal check list. Each of these areas had wait lists for their PCPs. Each of these areas, to my surprise had 1-2 DPC practices with multiple providers! One of these areas was very rural, very middle of nowhere and had very high medicaid/medicare percentage.

Now, the one comment of yours that had truth, you still have to work, and PP takes work that is different from employed jobs, too. Sure, hustle could be the word to use.
 
Aspen, Colorado.
Ski town? Moutains? Tiny?
Has a CCAH hospital!

Website of IM doctor, making it work. Even has PA-C, too.
Doctor even has privileges at the CCAH, too.
COL anywhere near Aspen is pretty bad. If you don't mind a 20+ minute drive, you can live for not too much money. But that's 20 minutes in a place that gets a stupid amount of snow every winter.
 
Here is an FM doc in Worland, WY
Surrounded by Banner Health and Hot Springs Health, both appear to be Big Box Shops for the local area.
Again, a nearby CCAH in middle of nowhere.

Google up any CCAH location in what ever area that has lower COL and less snow if those are a concern.
 
You really don't know what you are talking about.

. . .

Now, the one comment of yours that had truth, you still have to work, and PP takes work that is different from employed jobs, too. Sure, hustle could be the word to use.

How can you say I really don't know what I'm talking about and then eventually point out a truth in what I said? You're like a confusing x-girlfriend.
 
How can you say I really don't know what I'm talking about and then eventually point out a truth in what I said? You're like a confusing x-girlfriend.
Well have you set up a private practice?
It’s kinda like the med student reflecting on what it’s like to be a resident…
 
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Well have you set up a private practice?
It’s kinda like the med student reflecting on what it’s like to be a resident…
The poster he's responding to hasn't opened an outpatient primary care office either. Much, much easier to do PP psych than PP outpatient medicine.
 
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The poster he's responding to hasn't opened an outpatient primary care office either. Much, much easier to do PP psych than PP outpatient medicine.
Good catch and quite true. Especially given the bs psychiatrists try to pull nowadays with tele psych
 
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Well have you set up a private practice?
It’s kinda like the med student reflecting on what it’s like to be a resident…
You got me, I'm an armchair expert here on SDN (the land of Nobel laureates, Wolf-of-WallStreet investors, and real estate moguls).

Truth is, I'd find PP very frustrating and difficult. If you think this job---rounding hospitalist---is tough: Hell has no wrath like a needy primary care panel, especially when you have to fight for correct reimbursement to keep your business above water.

No thanks. (And I'm not moving to BFE for that. I like my suburban SoCal, with it's year round golf, sunshine, and street tacos).

My only point is: grass isn't always greener. All of Medicine has become a crap show. Jumping off one sinking ship to another doesn't always make sense.
 
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You got me, I'm an armchair expert here on SDN (the land of Nobel laureates, Wolf-of-WallStreet investors, and real estate moguls).

Truth is, I'd find PP very frustrating and difficult. If you think this job---rounding hospitalist---is tough: Hell has no wrath like a needy primary care panel, especially when you have to fight for correct reimbursement to keep your business above water.

No thanks. (And I'm not moving to BFE for that. I like my suburban SoCal, with it's year round golf, sunshine, and street tacos).

My only point is: grass isn't always greener. All of Medicine has become a crap show. Jumping off one sinking ship to another doesn't always make sense.
There might better jobs out there than HM, but I don't think I am that lucky to find one of them.

I think hospital medicine is sweet when one can get to your job by 7:15am, drink coffee from 7:15 to 7:45 while doing chart review and horsing around with your colleagues. After that, you see your 14-18 patients, write some notes and then watch TV from 3-5pm and peace out.

We have a new hospitalist who was a PCP that said the other day that he has too much time to do nothing (whatever that means). Last Sunday he left for 2 hrs to watch his kid play a soccer game
 
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Not at all.

I tell you, when I first got out of residency, I was pleasantly surprised how easy it was. Codes/rapid responses are run by nurse teams (they don't even call me sometimes), they put in orders for you, can even consult the intensivist and transfer to the ICU. Procedures done by IR or the ICU team. Pharmacists can change antibiotics when indicated.

First few times I was so flabbergasted by the automation of it I all, I asked, "Well, what do you want me to do?!" I was told to talk the intensivist, or have family discussions (which I could do over the phone if I was in a different building or completely off campus . . . COVID made this the norm).

The automation of it all is a little concerning . . .makes me question our job security as general hospitalists.

You've been vocal about the benefits of working as a hospitalist, but left this statement up in the air.

Just curious, as a new resident in IM who is considering whether to pursue or not a subspecialty, if the job is automated to the point where one is asking "what do you want me to do?" does that not ring the alarms for the it's eventual evolution.

Won't they just hire NPs or maybe even AI to do the rest?
 
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You've been vocal about the benefits of working as a hospitalist, but left this statement up in the air.

Just curious, as a new resident in IM who is considering whether to pursue or not a subspecialty, if the job is automated to the point where one is asking "what do you want me to do?" does that not ring the alarms for the it's eventual evolution.

Won't they just hire NPs or maybe even AI to do the rest?
AI isn't coming to medicine in a capacity that decreases physician jobs for a long time. GI/cards/oncology are kingmaker specialties, not just in IM but all of medicine. This is because of their business ownership and ancillary revenues which will not be threatened for the foreseeable future. 100% pick one of those 3 and don't look back.

The hospitalists that brag on here don't really understand the economies of outpatient medicine and the importance of having an exit path away from hospital ownership. They are riding a gravy train but everyone can see the end is coming--hospitalists rounding for 3 hours then being out of the hospital for more than half of their shift is a well known joke that won't last forever. If the hospital decides to pay them what they actually generate they'll be making less than PCPs and have no alternatives.
 
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You've been vocal about the benefits of working as a hospitalist, but left this statement up in the air.

Just curious, as a new resident in IM who is considering whether to pursue or not a subspecialty, if the job is automated to the point where one is asking "what do you want me to do?" does that not ring the alarms for the it's eventual evolution.

Won't they just hire NPs or maybe even AI to do the rest?
The value added for most hospitalists above a typical NP is low. My prediction for the future of this field is heavy infiltration by midlevels; MDs will exist mostly to cosign their notes/be their scapegoats and to work the limited number of true academic teaching jobs. chessknt is exactly right: pick one of Cards, GI or Onc. Whatever it is that you find intriguing about being a hospitalist can be found in some version in another field that pays better, has better job security and isn't a 24/7 dumping ground. I would never advise anyone to become a hospitalist.
 
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AI isn't coming to medicine in a capacity that decreases physician jobs for a long time. GI/cards/oncology are kingmaker specialties, not just in IM but all of medicine. This is because of their business ownership and ancillary revenues which will not be threatened for the foreseeable future. 100% pick one of those 3 and don't look back.

The hospitalists that brag on here don't really understand the economies of outpatient medicine and the importance of having an exit path away from hospital ownership. They are riding a gravy train but everyone can see the end is coming--hospitalists rounding for 3 hours then being out of the hospital for more than half of their shift is a well known joke that won't last forever. If the hospital decides to pay them what they actually generate they'll be making less than PCPs and have no alternatives.

The value added for most hospitalists above a typical NP is low. My prediction for the future of this field is heavy infiltration by midlevels; MDs will exist mostly to cosign their notes/be their scapegoats and to work the limited number of true academic teaching jobs. chessknt is exactly right: pick one of Cards, GI or Onc. Whatever it is that you find intriguing about being a hospitalist can be found in some version in another field that pays better, has better job security and isn't a 24/7 dumping ground. I would never advise anyone to become a hospitalist.

I partly agree with this sentiment based off what I've been hearing from posters such as yourself, my own viewings while rotating and doing sub-is, and the fundamental economics behind it.

That being said, every single hospitalist I have talked to candidly has downplayed this, and I don't want to quickly dismiss their position.
Most NPs, especially ones with limited training/newly practicing, can't handle the complexities of patients with multiple acute problems on top of the chronic ones.

But then why does the job of a hospitalist for a lack of a better word seem so easy yet not threatened by encroachment? Is it just the breadth of work (notes, juggling problems, talking to patients) that is just hard enough for it to require the capabilities of a MD.
 
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That being said, every single hospitalist I have talked to candidly has downplayed this, and I don't want to quickly dismiss their position.
Most NPs, especially ones with limited training/newly practicing, can't handle the complexities of patients with multiple acute problems on top of the chronic ones.

But then why does the job of a hospitalist for a lack of a better word seem so easy yet not threatened by encroachment? Is it just the breadth of work (notes, juggling problems, talking to patients) that is just hard enough for it to require the capabilities of a MD.
That's just cope (for the most part). Are there hospitalists who are thorough and conscientious and think seriously and critically about their patients' problems, and who bring to bear on those problems a deep knowledge far beyond that of any NP? Sure. In my experience (2 years as a hospitalist) I'd say it's less than a third. Probably less than 20%. Most hospitalists are completely unimpressive, the dregs of the medical profession imo.

People have to justify themselves and their life choices and the doctor ego isn't going to concede the reality, namely that hospitalist is a made-up job, a byproduct of residency work-hour restrictions and the for-profit structure of US healthcare. People certainly aren't going to be honest about the reasons they "chose" to be hospitalists, which are usually some combination of Mommy-track, burn-out or couldn't get into a subspecialty. I'm much more candid than most but if you were a student rotating with me you'd have to pry these opinions out of me; I certainly wouldn't volunteer them, mostly because I wouldn't want to freak you out (which is how students and residents usually react to this viewpoint ime).
 
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That being said, every single hospitalist I have talked to candidly has downplayed this, and I don't want to quickly dismiss their position.
Most NPs, especially ones with limited training/newly practicing, can't handle the complexities of patients with multiple acute problems on top of the chronic ones.

But then why does the job of a hospitalist for a lack of a better word seem so easy yet not threatened by encroachment? Is it just the breadth of work (notes, juggling problems, talking to patients) that is just hard enough for it to require the capabilities of a MD.
If they have been doing for 5+ years and they downplay it, you should not dismiss them.

The ones that I work with who have been doing for 10+ are more than ok with it.

Money might be better in other specialties but do not discount flexibility of HM.

I will say that again. There must be a reason why HM and psych are popular these days. On the other hand, there must also be reason why EM and Radonc are no longer popular.

I will be the first person to come here and blast HM when the flexibility I am enjoying right now no longer exists.

There are cons to HM and the notorious one is that you are the dumping ground for all other specialties. Also, you are the less "respected" doc in the hospital. However, some are ok with that so they can go to a beauty salon and have their nails done while working. Yes, it happened at my shop. Lol
 
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I partly agree with this sentiment based off what I've been hearing from posters such as yourself, my own viewings while rotating and doing sub-is, and the fundamental economics behind it.

That being said, every single hospitalist I have talked to candidly has downplayed this, and I don't want to quickly dismiss their position.
Most NPs, especially ones with limited training/newly practicing, can't handle the complexities of patients with multiple acute problems on top of the chronic ones.

But then why does the job of a hospitalist for a lack of a better word seem so easy yet not threatened by encroachment? Is it just the breadth of work (notes, juggling problems, talking to patients) that is just hard enough for it to require the capabilities of a MD.
ED docs stay in the hospital their entire shift, do procedures, and see 1.5 to 2 patients per hour with higher billing codes than hospitalists and their field was destroyed by PE/midlevels because it was reliant on hospital subsidization to stay viable despite this.

Hospitalists downplay these because it is the only job they have done. They don't see or understand outpatient/hospital economics and haven't been wrecked by it yet at scale. Look at anesthesiology who has been down this road a few times, they'll be the first to tell you what it is like to be subject to the whims of hospital subsidy with no ownership of patients or special service line added.
 
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ED docs stay in the hospital their entire shift, do procedures, and see 1.5 to 2 patients per hour with higher billing codes than hospitalists and their field was destroyed by PE/midlevels because it was reliant on hospital subsidization to stay viable despite this.

Hospitalists downplay these because it is the only job they have done. They don't see or understand outpatient/hospital economics and haven't been wrecked by it yet at scale. Look at anesthesiology who has been down this road a few times, they'll be the first to tell you what it is like to be subject to the whims of hospital subsidy with no ownership of patients or special service line added.
At least we have an exit route unlike anesthesia and EM. We can transition to outpatient.

The trend I am seeing right now is more physicians are selling their practice to work for healthcare systems.

It would be interesting to have stats of hospitalists leaving for outpatient or vice versa.
 
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I ran into a guy at a toddler bday party the other day who was a hospitalist and left his inpatient gig for a job essentially doing telehealth PCP type stuff for one of the local prison systems. I barely met the guy so didn't pry too deeply as in to how much his compensation was but sounds like he works from home and telehealth in that particular situation avoids some of the negatives mentioned above. Sounds like he basically gets an hourly wage for doing home-based telehealth on prisoners. I can see the appeal if the compensation is half-way decent. I imagine there's a lot less technical problems because it's an institution and you're paid hourly, not based on encounters and not dealing with a bunch of random people troubleshooting their home internet setups during a tele visit.
 
There must be a reason why HM and psych are popular these days.

Because these are decisions made by trainees based on limited and biased information. What does the average resident know about being a hospitalist? Their whole "exposure" to the field is their inpatient rotations working with a bunch of senior so-called "academic" internists who don't take pages and never call consults or put in orders or deal with nurses, social work or any of the million other things that we deal with. That's not the job most of us have and absent strong connections it's not a job anybody should expect right out of residency; plan on years (like, 5-7) of climbing the "academic" ladder before you get to that position, before which you'll be relegated to the night/admitting shifts, attending-only services and whatever other crap the senior people don't want to do. And that's not to even mention the millions of dollars of lost income, over the course of a career, that you gave up by not doing Cardiology or Oncology or GI.

But I will concede (based on what people in this thread are telling me) that there are PP jobs out there where you can show up at 7 and be out the door by noon after you've "seen" your 18 patient census and have nurses to put in your orders and IR to do all your procedures and probably blow your nose for you. But how much value are you really providing in that case? Most will probably respond that their value is immense, that the very limited amount of time they spend talking to the patient or reviewing the chart doesn't matter because they're so good...just that much better than a midlevel, the medical equivalent of one of those chess masters who can play 10 people simultaneously and beat them all within 5 moves...well, they can say that but I don't believe it. It's not at all consistent with my experience. And there's still the financial loss, which people here conveniently elide over with hand waving about "opportunity cost." The future is impossible to predict, but nothing I see about the current hospitalist landscape is encouraging to me, certainly compared to the alternatives available to any graduate of a decent IM residency. Choose wisely and caveat emptor.
 
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Because these are decisions made by trainees based on limited and biased information. What does the average resident know about being a hospitalist? Their whole "exposure" to the field is their inpatient rotations working with a bunch of senior so-called "academic" internists who don't take pages and never call consults or put in orders or deal with nurses, social work or any of the million other things that we deal with. That's not the job most of us have and absent strong connections it's not a job anybody should expect right out of residency; plan on years (like, 5-7) of climbing the "academic" ladder before you get to that position, before which you'll be relegated to the night/admitting shifts, attending-only services and whatever other crap the senior people don't want to do. And that's not to even mention the millions of dollars of lost income, over the course of a career, that you gave up by not doing Cardiology or Oncology or GI.

But I will concede (based on what people in this thread are telling me) that there are PP jobs out there where you can show up at 7 and be out the door by noon after you've "seen" your 18 patient census and have nurses to put in your orders and IR to do all your procedures and blow your nose for you. But the question is: how much value are you really providing in that case? Most will probably respond that their value is immense, that the very limited amount of time they spend talking to the patient or reviewing the chart doesn't matter because they're so good...just that much better than a midlevel, the medical equivalent of one of those chess masters who can play 10 people simultaneously and beat them all within 5 moves...well, they can say that but I don't believe it. It's not at all consistent with my experience. And there's still the financial loss, which people here conveniently elide over with some nonsense about "opportunity cost." The future is impossible to predict, but nothing I see about the current hospitalist landscape is encouraging to me, certainly compared to the alternatives available to any graduate of a decent IM residency. Choose wisely.
I am just waiting for the mass exodus and then I will concede.

Most (or even all) IM docs can get an outpatient tomorrow if they want to.

As I said, the job is not for everyone. However, if you are looking for flexibility, there aren't that many jobs in medicine that beats it.
 
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I am just waiting for the mass exodus and then I will concede.

Most (or even all) IM docs can get an outpatient tomorrow if they want to.

As I said, the job is not for everyone. However, if you are looking for flexibility, there aren't that many jobs in medicine that beats it.
I mean the entire ER field turned from a gravy train to spoiled milk in 6 months. It can happen very fast. The hospital admins are looking for new ways to save money as this house of cards starts to collapse hospitalists/intensivists will likely be early casualties. Sure you can run to outpatient medicine to be a PCP but depending on your local market you are looking at a year to be properly impaneled before you start to actually have positive income potential. Onc/cards/GI will never have this problem. They own the infusion/echo/ASC and are printing money whether the hospital goes out of business or builds a new tower. They also own the patients that generate hospitals money.
 
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