Midwest programs

[Gran Turismo]

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I'm curious about midwest programs. Anyone know anything about job placement outside the midwest if your training is done there?

 

[desmangt]

I'm curious about midwest programs. Anyone know anything about job placement outside the midwest if your training is done there?

I would say that the best midwest programs are in Chicago, Ohio, or Wash U. I think alot of the extremely high paying jobs are in states like Kentucky, Indiana, West Virginia. The best bet to get one of those jobs might be to actually go to a local program in that territory, however I think doing well at a big name program will get you a job in most places.

 

[yaah]

The thing is, most people who train in the midwest look for jobs in the midwest. But not always. We have people from our program go all over. And it also depends on fellowships too.

There are lots of good programs out there - most of success depends on the person, not the program.

 

[LADoc00]

I would say that the best midwest programs are in Chicago, Ohio, or Wash U. I think alot of the extremely high paying jobs are in states like Kentucky, Indiana, West Virginia. The best bet to get one of those jobs might be to actually go to a local program in that territory, however I think doing well at a big name program will get you a job in most places.

I would say the best programs are WashU and Univ of Chicago. In terms of high paying jobs, I could write you a volume why all the stuff people told me was bullsh*t. I applied to jobs in WVa, Ohio and rural TX. The pay was crap, I was rather shocked AND some guy in Ohio actually tried to give crap when I applied, I hung up on him. I make more as a starting salary then their full fledged partners! Yes there are rural communities that have good payer mixes but they are rare and jobs there are insanely hard to get without connections.

Yes, Im sure people have heard about this group or that group in MO or IA or MN making 600 grand. Theres 2 ways to make that much in Path:
1.) Most common source of guy making 600K is the owner of a lab, he employs other pathologists and has no route to partnership for them. They end up billing out several hundred thousand more than they are paid and thus profit goes to the supreme overlord.
2.) The second way is for a group to go shady i.e. overbill, order excess tests under a reflex protocol, provide illegal inducements for business (free biopsy needles for prostates for example), violate anti-kickback laws and recruit patients directly.

 

[RyMcQ]

The second way is for a group to go shady

While I (still) think that the job market isn't as shaky as LADoc00 would have you believe, I have to agree with him here. I have heard of a group that splits frozen section specimens so there is a separate specimen for every fragment of tissue. They are going to jail some day, but until then, they are living high on the hog.

As to the initial question: While Iowa isn't a huge name academic-wise, the program there trains excellent pathologists and has a great reputation nationally.

 

[elperro]

Since we're talking about good midwest programs here, I thought Mayo would come up. I am going to try to do an away rotation there 4th year. Is it known to be a strong program, and how hard would it be to match there assuming I'm not a big ****** and I can pass my step 1? Yaah, I know you did a rotation there, therefore, you are now obligated to share your wisdom. I read your experience, but could you (or anyone) comment on competitiveness?

 

[yaah]

I have posted about Mayo before - search function should help you there - but in short it is a good program but not the most competitive out there because of their different style of doing things and because of the isolated location (rochester is not the best "singles" place out there). I am not sure what they look for mostly in application terms though.

It is a strong program, but known more for their fellowship training then their general residency program. Residents don't have tons of responsibility, while fellows have lots.

 

[LADoc00]

I have posted about Mayo before - search function should help you there - but in short it is a good program but not the most competitive out there because of their different style of doing things and because of the isolated location (rochester is not the best "singles" place out there). I am not sure what they look for mostly in application terms though.

It is a strong program, but known more for their fellowship training then their general residency program. Residents don't have tons of responsibility, while fellows have lots.

I disagree, Mayo may have their share of great pathologists but I think it is not a good program to train.

 

[beary]

I disagree, Mayo may have their share of great pathologists but I think it is not a good program to train.

LADoc - can I ask why you say this? I ask because I am interested in going there. I know they have a different surg path method than the rest of the world, but I don't think I am really interested in being a surgical pathologist for my whole career, so at least for now that's not going to keep me away. Is there any other reason that it's not a good place to train?

 

[yaah]

I disagree, Mayo may have their share of great pathologists but I think it is not a good program to train.

No, I think it's a good program, but I do agree that I wouldn't want to train there. It's just so different in terms of how they do things than anywhere else. You probably will get your name on a few papers fairly easily. I do think it's a good place for a fellowship though. And while it may not be the best place for residency, it's better than a lot of programs out there.

 

[LADoc00]

LADoc - can I ask why you say this? I ask because I am interested in going there. I know they have a different surg path method than the rest of the world, but I don't think I am really interested in being a surgical pathologist for my whole career, so at least for now that's not going to keep me away. Is there any other reason that it's not a good place to train?

Im not in the best mood so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Where do I begin? Mayo is host to a friggin Battle Star Galactica Armada of selfserving arrogant pathologists. I have no doubt they would end your career if you ever stopped sucking up to them for even a second. I can smell their condecending thought waves every time I read one their consult reports, they live to disagree with community pathologists hoping to make the weakminded among us their lapdogs. You think MGH arrogance is bad? You think Hopkins has attitude? Move over Don King, the mothership has landed in Rochester. Look at their fellowship application, its as long as the Princeton undergrad app! Plus the frozen sections...OOoooOO the frozens. Go try their method at Good Samaritan Community Hospital of whatever, use your Mayo skillz....I dare you. You will be knee deep in a world of hurt.
Caveat Emptor

 

[yaah]

Every attending at Mayo has at least one secretary. Some have more than one.

There is a bit of an ivory tower feeling there.

In regards to the frozens, they say it translates well to other methods, but I am not so sure. It is very different.

 

[tennik]

Since when is Washington midwest? What do you guys think of our Wisconsin programs (UW Madison, Medical College of Wisconsin)?

Also, LADoc is painting a grim picture for the job market. If 600k isn't realistic, what is?

 

[beary]

Since when is Washington midwest?

I think they meant Washington University in St. Louis.

 

[bananaface]

Im not in the best mood so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Don't be saddish. Eat a radish.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Don't hate. Congratulate.

 

[geddy]

Since when is Washington midwest? What do you guys think of our Wisconsin programs (UW Madison, Medical College of Wisconsin)?

Also, LADoc is painting a grim picture for the job market. If 600k isn't realistic, what is?

700K. 800K if you work in Wisconsin or at St. Louis University in Tacoma 🙄

Seriously, I think it varies tremendously on region, academia/private, etc. I'm sure LADoc will have something to say about this

 

[bananaface]

I am from Tacoma! And, I go to UW! 😎

 

[yaah]

Since when is Washington midwest? What do you guys think of our Wisconsin programs (UW Madison, Medical College of Wisconsin)?

Also, LADoc is painting a grim picture for the job market. If 600k isn't realistic, what is?

UW is apparently going through a lot of changes in the program and staffing, if you are seriously considering it I would make sure you look into it carefully.

As for MCW, all the grads going into path seem to be coming here!

 

[b&ierstiefel]

I'm upset with Michigan. It has turned its back on its own two years in a row now.

 

[Zoloft]

Hey Gran Turismo, don't forget about U Michigan, Cleveland Clinic, Case Western, and OSU. There are alot of good programs in the midwest, but its kind of a big place. Any specific locations you are looking at?

 

[deschutes]

UMinnesota. 👍
They regularly attract their own med students, which is another strong sign.

 

[jeff2005]

Check out Iowa. The place is awesome, and they pay up to $300 for you to visit.

 

[LADoc00]

Check out Iowa. The place is awesome, and they pay up to $300 for you to visit.

WTF? Thats gonna need an explanation. Im not gonna imply anything, but could that just have been you? 🙄

 

[deschutes]

It's all true. The $300 is in addition to dinner at Giovanni's and a night in the legendary Sheraton Sleeper.

What can I say, it's Iowa. 😀

 

[RyMcQ]

... a night in the legendary Sheraton Sleeper.

Legendary? What did I miss?

 

[deschutes]

yaah kept saying last year that it was the most comfortable bed he had ever slept in......................................................

🙂

I suppose all Sheraton Sleepers are created equal, but I sure slept a lot better in San Antonio than in Iowa City. Damned interview jitters.

 

[jeff2005]

yaah kept saying last year that it was the most comfortable bed he had ever slept in......................................................

I had the same experience as Yaah. Very, very comfy bed.

 

[LADoc00]

I had the same experience as Yaah. Very, very comfy bed.

Like a Tempur Pedic bed? What type of bed? Can you research this.

 

[deschutes]

No it doesn't have a mirror above it 🙄

It's the sort of bed you (okay fine, I) have to take a flying leap to get into.

 

[beary]

I have spent some nights in the Iowa City Sheraton but don't remember anything in particular about the bed. Guess I missed out on something fabulous. 🙂

 

[deschutes]

I have spent some nights in the Iowa City Sheraton but don't remember anything in particular about the bed. Guess I missed out on something fabulous. 🙂

Au contraire, the reverse is true. If you don't remember anything in particular about the bed, then it wasn't something fabulous!

 

[yaah]

That bed was fantastic. I think it was a combination of the mattress and the sheets and the pillows. I slept like a baby. I got in at about 3pm, watched football for a couple of hours, then went to dinner with the residents, and came back and laid in that bed from about 8pm or whenever it was until 7am when i got up for the interview. Fantastic.

And yes, Iowa does pay for you to go there. They give you a hotel room with a food basket and they compensate you for up to $300 based on your travel expenses.

 

[deschutes]

*dreamily* I think it's the goosedown... and the suede-like cushion covers...

The only downside (pun...) was that I was quite unceremoniously stabbed awake by the pointy ends of feathers in my cheek (no pun).

 

[beary]

And yes, Iowa does pay for you to go there. They give you a hotel room with a food basket and they compensate you for up to $300 based on your travel expenses.

Figures that the one interview I don't have to travel to is the one that reimburses for travel expenses. I wonder if they will send a food basket to my house.

 

[yaah]

Well, then go in style and rent a limo. That's a travel expense!