Military Medical Schools?

[WonderW]

I'm working as a critical care nurse in a cardiothoracic ICU, but I've been interested in advancing my career and my depth medical knowledge since nursing school, given that I didn't get nearly as much out of it as I hoped I would. Before I start speaking to recruiters, I wanted to reach out for some unbiased opinions on the following questions.

1) I know that military medical schools aren't for everyone, but I'm wondering who they are right for. I'm single, unafraid of commitment to the military, wanting to travel the world, love critical care...would military nursing be a good fit? I have no interest in swimming in debt for the next ten years of my life.

2) What disadvantages of military service might I not be told about or aware of?

3) Which branch of the military would be in my best interest to look into for a career as a physician?

4) If you've served as a military physician or are serving as a military physician? What has your experience been like? Was it worth it for you?

Thank you for your input. Feel free to shoot me a personal message if you have any experience with this matter.

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[Catalystik]

I'm working as a critical care nurse in a cardiothoracic ICU, but I've been interested in advancing my career and my depth medical knowledge since nursing school, given that I didn't get nearly as much out of it as I hoped I would. Before I start speaking to recruiters, I wanted to reach out for some unbiased opinions on the following questions.

1) I know that military medical schools aren't for everyone, but I'm wondering who they are right for. I'm single, unafraid of commitment to the military, wanting to travel the world, love critical care...would military nursing be a good fit? I have no interest in swimming in debt for the next ten years of my life.

2) What disadvantages of military service might I not be told about or aware of?

3) Which branch of the military would be in my best interest to look into for a career as a physician?

4) If you've served as a military physician or are serving as a military physician? What has your experience been like? Was it worth it for you?

Thank you for your input. Feel free to shoot me a personal message if you have any experience with this matter.

You'll eventually get some answers here, but in the meantime, you might like to take a look at SDN's dedicated forum on Military Medicine

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

You won’t find many unbiased opinions here. Most of the military physicians here had a bad experience for one reason or another and will tell you to run for the hills. There are a few who don’t feel that way though. I’m going through the process of applying to USUHS right now, but I’ve been in the Navy for 6 years. There are definitely downsides that you are likely not aware of. It is hard to be prepared for military life, as it can be so different from civilian life. I like it though. A lot of people do.

One thing I’ve learned from this site and from my Army classmates is that I’m really ****ing glad I’m in the Navy. If you’re going to join, join the Navy or the Air Force.

And just to clarify, there is only one military medical school, which is USUHS in Bethesda MD. The HPSP is a scholarship program that you use to go to a civilian school. While you won’t have monetary debt, you will owe time, which shouldn’t be taken lightly.

 

[Medic741]

>USAF does most of the CC/Transport for the military
>if you go Army you almost definitely won’t be able to match into EM without ridiculous shenanigans
>HPSP May be a better program if your goals change d/t shorter commitment
>FAP seems like a great program
>you could get totally boned and end up in a place like Lawton OK for a few years treating not sick people

The more I learn the better the USAF sounds. Plus your PT tests involve only a 1.5 mi run, just saying

-Army MS2

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

The more I learn the better the USAF sounds. Plus your PT tests involve only a 1.5 mi run, just saying

-Army MS2

So does the Navy’s, but we can do the bike without any sort of waiver. I have to burn 66 calories in 12 mins lol.

 

[SARmedic8401]

1. The biggest drawback I see with doing USUHS is the service commitment after graduating and the relative lack of flexibility in choosing a residency afterwards. Other than that, it’s a great option for being debt free and getting a salary while attending medical school.

It’s hard to say if military nursing would be a great fit. There’s a lot of external factors that are completely dependent on the branch you join and what duty station you end up. If you’re passionate about CCT, Air Force is your best bet. The Navy is in the process of developing a MEDEVAC/CCT program that will include Flight Nurses, but nothing is final yet.

2. Disadvantages will also be completely unique to the individual and where you’re stationed. Generally, it’d be along the lines of not being able to leave your job if you have a terrible work environment and bad leaders and potentially having to be stationed in places you have zero desire to live. If you’re a “go with the flow” kind of person, then these issues won’t be an issue.

For me, the biggest disadvantage was dealing with poor leaders from time to time, but that was not often in my case and is not unique to just the military.

3. This would completely depend on what kind of GMO tour you want, where you’d like to be stationed, and residency interests.

4. I’m not a physician but I’ve worked with quite a few who completely regretted joining, a few who absolutely love the military life, and a bunch who had some gripes but generally enjoyed their jobs. Once again, completely depends on your work environment and what kind of unit you’re attached to. A common complaint is just the boredom or frustration that comes with working in a clinic setting.

Let me know if you have more specific questions and I’ll be happy to share what I know and can help break down some of the nuances.

 

[Sunna12]

I'm working as a critical care nurse in a cardiothoracic ICU, but I've been interested in advancing my career and my depth medical knowledge since nursing school, given that I didn't get nearly as much out of it as I hoped I would. Before I start speaking to recruiters, I wanted to reach out for some unbiased opinions on the following questions.

1) I know that military medical schools aren't for everyone, but I'm wondering who they are right for. I'm single, unafraid of commitment to the military, wanting to travel the world, love critical care...would military nursing be a good fit? I have no interest in swimming in debt for the next ten years of my life.

2) What disadvantages of military service might I not be told about or aware of?

3) Which branch of the military would be in my best interest to look into for a career as a physician?

4) If you've served as a military physician or are serving as a military physician? What has your experience been like? Was it worth it for you?

Thank you for your input. Feel free to shoot me a personal message if you have any experience with this matter.

I think it is interesting that no one considers contacting guard or reserves after all of their training.
With USUHS you have 4 years of med school and 3-7 years of residency that you are active duty during and that don't count towards retirement, and then you owe all that time back.
With HPSP, you are at your service's whim when it comes to what specialty you will go into- sure, you have a say, but it all comes down to the service's need at that time. Again, all your training time doesn't count towards retirement.
If you complete all of your training on your own and contact a guard, reserve, or even active duty health professions recruiter-- they will offer you loan forgiveness, age waivers, bonus packages, anything to get you to enlist with your skillset.
So if you are toying with the idea but not quite sure, don't feel like you need to commit to something so soon. You could actually have much more control over your future career outlook if you foot the bill upfront and come to the recruiter with the upper hand.

Just my 2 pennies.

 

[SARmedic8401]

I think it is interesting that no one considers contacting guard or reserves after all of their training.
With USUHS you have 4 years of med school and 3-7 years of residency that you are active duty during and that don't count towards retirement, and then you owe all that time back.
With HPSP, you are at your service's whim when it comes to what specialty you will go into- sure, you have a say, but it all comes down to the service's need at that time. Again, all your training time doesn't count towards retirement.
If you complete all of your training on your own and contact a guard, reserve, or even active duty health professions recruiter-- they will offer you loan forgiveness, age waivers, bonus packages, anything to get you to enlist with your skillset.
So if you are toying with the idea but not quite sure, don't feel like you need to commit to something so soon. You could actually have much more control over your future career outlook if you foot the bill upfront and come to the recruiter with the upper hand.

Just my 2 pennies.

That’s awesome. I never even heard about this strategy but it makes sense. My plans to pay for school are either;
1. Voc Rehab
2. HPSP
3. SLRP
4. Bitcoin bucks
5. Lottery tickets

I think I’ll move the Guard/Reserve plan to right behind Voc Rehab.

 

[Sunna12]

I'm working as a critical care nurse in a cardiothoracic ICU, but I've been interested in advancing my career and my depth medical knowledge since nursing school, given that I didn't get nearly as much out of it as I hoped I would. Before I start speaking to recruiters, I wanted to reach out for some unbiased opinions on the following questions.

1) I know that military medical schools aren't for everyone, but I'm wondering who they are right for. I'm single, unafraid of commitment to the military, wanting to travel the world, love critical care...would military nursing be a good fit? I have no interest in swimming in debt for the next ten years of my life.

2) What disadvantages of military service might I not be told about or aware of?

3) Which branch of the military would be in my best interest to look into for a career as a physician?

4) If you've served as a military physician or are serving as a military physician? What has your experience been like? Was it worth it for you?

Thank you for your input. Feel free to shoot me a personal message if you have any experience with this matter.

Also, Re: #3
Air Force, always Air Force

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

With HPSP, you are at your service's whim when it comes to what specialty you will go into- sure, you have a say, but it all comes down to the service's need at that time.

This is a bit of a mischaracterization, at least for the Navy. The Navy will not force you into a specialty you don’t want. You may not be able to match certain specialties because the Navy has decided not to fund training spots or to only fund a few (eg, rad onc, neurosurg, pmr); however, you will not be thrown into FM because they need more FM docs.

That said, you need to be comfortable with the idea of getting one of your top two choices and with the idea of doing a GMO tour (this is true for all services—the Army has fewer gmo tours but has BS tours for attendings). The Navy requires you to select two specialties that you would be happy matching in. But with HPSP, if you want EM and match your second choice for intern year, you can either try again for pgy-2 or choose to GMO and out, then apply to civilian programs.

But I agree. If your priority is being able to match whatever specialty you want with no worry about the number of spots or gmo tours, go to a civilian school, match to a civilian residency, then hit up the reserves (or active duty).

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Also, Re: #3
Air Force, always Air Force

My cousin is an AF orthopod and loves it.

 

[kmd.exe]

With USUHS you have 4 years of med school and 3-7 years of residency that you are active duty during and that don't count towards retirement, and then you owe all that time back.
With HPSP, you are at your service's whim when it comes to what specialty you will go into- sure, you have a say, but it all comes down to the service's need at that time. Again, all your training time doesn't count towards retirement.

I believe residency does count towards retirement for HPSP if you are doing military residency. Unsure for USUHS.

 

[deuist]

Also, Re: #3
Air Force, always Air Force

Yuck. You still might have to do flight surgery before getting into a competitive specialty such as emergency medicine. There are still down sides to the Air Force.

I believe residency does count towards retirement for HPSP if you are doing military residency. Unsure for USUHS.

Active duty residency counts toward retirement no matter how to get to it.

 

[pgg]

I think it is interesting that no one considers contacting guard or reserves after all of their training.

?

This suggestion appears in almost every single "should I join" thread.

With USUHS you have 4 years of med school and 3-7 years of residency that you are active duty during and that don't count towards retirement, and then you owe all that time back.

This is all wrong. First, USUHS has a 7 year obligation. Second, the 3-7 years of an inservice residency incur a 1:1 obligation, but these years are served concurrently with the USUHS obligation, not consecutively. Third, time spent in an inservice residency counts toward retirement eligibility and time-in-service. Fourth, while the 4 years in USUHS do not count toward retirement eligibility, they do count toward the time-in-service pay multiplier for calculating the benefit.

With HPSP, you are at your service's whim when it comes to what specialty you will go into- sure, you have a say, but it all comes down to the service's need at that time. Again, all your training time doesn't count towards retirement.

Also all wrong. No service can dictate what specialty a person goes into. USUHS graduates are guaranteed an inservice intern/PGY1 year, so it is possible their intern year will be at a location or specialty not of their choosing, but residency training (PGY2+) is and has always been completely elective.

And see above re: training time counting toward retirement.

If you complete all of your training on your own and contact a guard, reserve, or even active duty health professions recruiter-- they will offer you loan forgiveness, age waivers, bonus packages, anything to get you to enlist with your skillset.

Doctors don't enlist.

So if you are toying with the idea but not quite sure, don't feel like you need to commit to something so soon. You could actually have much more control over your future career outlook if you foot the bill upfront and come to the recruiter with the upper hand.

This is reasonable. However, entry via FAP or direct accession after completion of residency training is an uncertain path. Generally, the specialties eligible for the large accession bonuses vary year-to-year and depend on current needs. One should be cautious planning out a life ~10 years in advance if that life counts on those bonuses.

 

[Atlas Shrugged]

Air Force GME is dying which some see as positive and negative. If I would have had to apply to ERAS I would have torn my hair out. Navy has GMO garbage, and you aren't safe even if going into primary care. Army has its own problems, but if you want to train in the military and have the greatest number of spots per specialty, it is the way to go.

Also, the Navy is just weird. Looking at you Balboa with your no cover zone unless you have your cover and so have to wear your cover.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Looking at you Balboa with your no cover zone

No cover zones are fire.

Did I use that right? I'm old.

 

[Atlas Shrugged]

My point is it isn't a no cover zone. Unless you didn't have your cover on you.

Wut.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

My point is it isn't a no cover zone. Unless you didn't have your cover on you.

Wut.

lol yeah I got what you were saying.

 

[j4pac]

You’re single now. Life changes. You simply CANNOT dedicate the amount of time of your life to the military by doing USUHS. It’s a very difficult decision for men...it’s an even more difficult decision for women.

 

[militaryPHYS]

You’re single now. Life changes. You simply CANNOT dedicate the amount of time of your life to the military by doing USUHS. It’s a very difficult decision for men...it’s an even more difficult decision for women.

How is dedicating time to the military as a physician any different for men and women?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

How is dedicating time to the military as a physician any different for men and women?

It’s not until they have kids. I wouldn’t want to have to pump in the head on duty.

 

[militaryPHYS]

The advice doesn't change:

If you are STRONGLY considering a CAREER (20 years) in military medicine then do USUHS
If a CAREER in military medicine is possible, but unlikely then consider HPSP, but also USUHS
If serving your country for short time is a priority for you in life then do HPSP....or do your training and come in later if you still have the calling for service.

If you are NOT fully informed of what life as a physician in your intended branch of service is like or you are just looking for the avoidance of debt DO NOT sign any lines before you 1) educate yourself and 2) fall in to one of the three categories above.

 

[militaryPHYS]

It’s not until they have kids. I wouldn’t want to have to pump in the head on duty.

Having the only place to pump being a bathroom is actually illegal for the institution involved now...so....

If the person feels that being a woman, mom, wife, husband, father, single, married etc. steers them away from military service then fine. But none of us should be giving someone Yes or NO advice on something like this just because they are one vs. the other.

Maybe discussing WHY you might think its a good or bad idea because of X so other people can chime in with their opinions works, but blanket-stating that just because someone is a woman and single means an automatic NO to USUHS is very ignorant in my opinion.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Having the only place to pump being a bathroom is actually illegal for the institution involved now...so....

I mean I guess they could pump in a fan room or something. Not sure where else they’d pump on a warship.

I imagine that’s less of a problem for most female mil physicians.

If the person feels that being a woman, mom, wife, husband, father, single, married etc. steers them away from military service then fine. But none of us should be giving someone Yes or NO advice on something like this just because they are one vs. the other.

My advice was to think about how having to be away from you family would make you feel (if you have a family). I hate leaving my family, but I enjoy being in the military so it’s worth it for me. But I know people who had families who got out bitter because it took them away from their families.

Maybe discussing WHY you might think its a good or bad idea because of X so other people can chime in with their opinions works, but blanket-stating that just because someone is a woman and single means an automatic NO to USUHS is very ignorant in my opinion.

I’m not sure if this is directed at me or if it’s just a general comment, but I definitely never made any blanket statements about not joining because someone is a woman and single (or for any other gender/marital combination).

 

[militaryPHYS]

I mean I guess they could pump in a fan room or something. Not sure where else they’d pump on a warship.

I imagine that’s less of a problem for most female mil physicians.



My advice was to think about how having to be away from you family would make you feel (if you have a family). I hate leaving my family, but I enjoy being in the military so it’s worth it for me. But I know people who had families who got out bitter because it took them away from their families.



I’m not sure if this is directed at me or if it’s just a general comment, but I definitely never made any blanket statements about not joining because someone is a woman and single (or for any other gender/marital combination).

Not you, j4pac’s statement

 

[j4pac]

You’re single now. Life changes. You simply CANNOT dedicate the amount of time of your life to the military by doing USUHS. It’s a very difficult decision for men...it’s an even more difficult decision for women.

Well, considering that she is currently a nurse, I'd wager that she is at least 23 years old. You do medical school, residency, and pay back...all of a sudden she is 36 years old, at minimum. Hypothetically, if she would like to have a family and maybe even have a child, the military creates an obstacle. Not to say that it couldn't happen, but it makes life more challenging. Life's too short, and often, it is actually pretty tough. There is no need to FORCE your life to be more complicated and difficult than it already is. You want to give yourself options in life...and as much as I love the military, it takes many of your options off the table. When you're in the military, your flexibility disappears...you become a government servant.

 

[militaryPHYS]

Hypothetically, if she would like to have a family and maybe even have a child, the military creates an obstacle. Not to say that it couldn't happen, but it makes life more challenging

More challenging than managing the same med school, residency while accumulating debt and living paycheck to paycheck for the same amount of time?? Not the best time to start a family depending on who you talk to. Personally I found it much less stressful to start a family while in the military and going through a medical pathway because I had a decent income and wasn't constantly worried about something happening to me, failing out and having no job with same debt while trying to provide for kids.

 

[j4pac]

More challenging than managing the same med school, residency while accumulating debt and living paycheck to paycheck for the same amount of time?? Not the best time to start a family depending on who you talk to. Personally I found it much less stressful to start a family while in the military and going through a medical pathway because I had a decent income and wasn't constantly worried about something happening to me, failing out and having no job with same debt while trying to provide for kids.

Yes. You don’t live like a king or queen, but the majority of Americans are living on a wage similar to residents. The risk of deployment is real. The risk of having no control over what part of the country or world you end up is also real. I’m just here to bring up possible concerns that the OP may have not thought of.

I think it’s worth mentioning that COL in Bethesda is really high. It’s one of the most wealthy cities in the country. Single med students who are rooming with someone are living pretty comfortably. But if you are living alone with a family, things are tight. Everything is expensive there from food, to housing, to transportation. That was my experience at least.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Yes. You don’t live like a king or queen, but the majority of Americans are living on a wage similar to residents. The risk of deployment is real. The risk of having no control over what part of the country or world you end up is also real. I’m just here to bring up possible concerns that the OP may have not thought of.

I think it’s worth mentioning that COL in Bethesda is really high. It’s one of the most wealthy cities in the country. Single med students who are rooming with someone are living pretty comfortably. But if you are living alone with a family, things are tight. Everything is expensive there from food, to housing, to transportation. That was my experience at least.

These are real concerns that should be thought about. But I too found that while it had its challenges, having a family in the military was actually nice because I didn’t have to worry about healthcare, losing my income, etc. And I did go on deployment and many underways when my kids were very little. It makes it tough for sure. But thousands of us do it all the time.

And you can live in Rockville, which is right next to Bethesda and is much more affordable and very nice. There are a lot of very nice places to rent that are less than the BAH. No one says you’re required to live in Bethesda.

 

[j4pac]

These are real concerns that should be thought about. But I too found that while it had its challenges, having a family in the military was actually nice because I didn’t have to worry about healthcare, losing my income, etc. And I did go on deployment and many underways when my kids were very little. It makes it tough for sure. But thousands of us do it all the time.

And you can live in Rockville, which is right next to Bethesda and is much more affordable and very nice. There are a lot of very nice places to rent that are less than the BAH. No one says you’re required to live in Bethesda.

I lived in Rockville...paid about $2000 for a 2 small 2 bedroom. There is literally nowhere cheap in the area...though some are much more expensive than others.

You do have a point about childcare...and it’s a concern for med school. But most residency programs offer health benefits to dependents, and that would likely be the soonest children typically come along.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I lived in Rockville...paid about $2000 for a 2 small 2 bedroom. There is literally nowhere cheap in the area...though some are much more expensive than others.

That's weird because I have found a number of 3-4 bedroom places for $2350-2500 right in Rockville over the last few weeks. I guess it depends on what you consider cheap, but when you're BAH is $2406 for an O-1 with dependents, I don't think anything around $2000-2400 is unreasonable.

Also, a lot of the med students live in Rockville, including a few of my M1 friends who have families. There are affordable places there. You just have to look.

 

[d2305]

The swamp is expensive.