Military OMS experiences

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bigmgreen68

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I just found out I will be begining OMS at Bethesda NNMC next summer. If you are a current or past OMS resident would you please share your experiences from training.Also, if anyone has tips or advice especially related to taking care of your family during residency, the info would be much appreciated. Thanks!

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From the residents i've spoken to there is no "taking care of your family" besides sending them your paycheck twice a month. The advice they gave was to take a picture of your children before you go because you won't be seeing them.
 
I'm a pre-dent trying to get the HPSP particularly because of the high OMS acceptance rates in the Army.

Is that true that you won't get to see your family during your residency?? So you will barely see your family for the whole six years of OMS residency??? My understanding was that you can bring your family to where you're stationed for your residency...
 
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I'm a pre-dent trying to get the HPSP particularly because of the high OMS acceptance rates in the Army.

Is that true that you won't get to see your family during your residency?? So you will barely see your family for the whole six years of OMS residency??? My understanding was that you can bring your family to where you're stationed for your residency...

It isn't that you cannot have your family there. It is just that you will be extremely busy during any residency. Personally, at least from what I experienced at Lackalnd AFB for the year I assisted in the various dental residency programs before d-school, the prosthodontic residents have it worse than the OMFS residents.

Another thing, the OMFS residency in the military is the 4 year certificate program. The military no longer has the 6 year DDS/MD option unless you are not picked up in a military residency and they allow you to go to a 6 year civilian residency.
 
I'm a pre-dent trying to get the HPSP particularly because of the high OMS acceptance rates in the Army.

Is that true that you won't get to see your family during your residency?? So you will barely see your family for the whole six years of OMS residency??? My understanding was that you can bring your family to where you're stationed for your residency...

Any Oral Surgery program in or our of the military is extremely busy. You may work up to 80 hours a week. This is the same in the military and out of the military. If that is a problem - OMFS may not be the route to go. You make time for the things that are important for you. Prioritize while you are in the OMFS program.
 
we are "supposed" to have a "maximum" of 80 hours of patient care time, with an additional max. of 23 hours of "admin/didactic" time per week, as averaged over a four week period.

we have to find personal study time after that.
 
Is that what's expected of the OMS residents during all four years of the residency program, all year around? That sounds pretty intense...
 
Is that what's expected of the OMS residents during all four years of the residency program, all year around? That sounds pretty intense...

mostly for four years, yes. you get to take 12 days leave each year. 7 has to be around the "Christmas" timeframe. the rest of your leave doesn't get used.
 
I just found out I will be begining OMS at Bethesda NNMC next summer. If you are a current or past OMS resident would you please share your experiences from training.Also, if anyone has tips or advice especially related to taking care of your family during residency, the info would be much appreciated. Thanks!
I will be starting a civilian program next summer (don't know which one yet). I guess one of the things that I have come to realize is that, during residency, I will have no personal free time for myself. What time I have away from the hospital will be given wholly to my wife and kids. I owe them that in the very least for standing behind me through this challenging time.
 
Anyone know a list of bases where they offer OS residencies in the AF?
 
Technically, OMFS is a dental residency and it is not regulated by the medical standards of 80 hrs per week. In my first year at a civilian residency I was in the hospital (sleeping not included) 83.6 hours per week on average the first year with 6 weeks over 110 hours. It got better with time when I became better at doing my job in less time, rounding quicker, getting information faster, manuvering better. We only spent 2-4 hrs a week in didactics so the brutal schedule was due to patient care which made the time seem "worth it". I could stay awake easier by treating patients than by sitting in endless lectures, seminars or reading some book. I honestly was extremely stimulated by the environment and so I actually went my entire residency without drinking an ounce of caffeine. I was running on pure physical toughness (which the residency expanded), and intellectual curiosity.

If you are at a location that has strict rules of 80 hrs a week that is great but it is not required for OMFS residency. Just as a side note. If anyone came and interviewed at our residency and even mentioned the question of how many hours a week you work, they got the AX! They were expected to do some good tough externships and realize that when they were in residency they better expect to work until they dropped. If they were worried about 80 hrs a week, they weren't for our residency. Just be careful. Some really busy residencies pride themselves on working around the clock and it is the badge of "right" that they earn.
 
in the army, all the medical interns and residents, and also the OMS residents, fall under the umbrella of Graduate Medical Education (GME). the hour limits are supposed to be followed by all that fall under GME. not that anyone is actually keeping track of my hours, nor would anyone do or say anything about me going over the hours.....i'm certainly not going to mention it to my director. i'm sure you could imagine the reaction i'd get. he would probably hand me a kleenex, then threaten to kick my arse. that's just a guess though.
 
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I've got another question here I'd like to ask...
I understand that the military no longer has the 6 year DDS/MD OMS programs. I really would like to practice as an DDS/MD OMS because it seems like it would allow me to have a larger scope of practice and for the sake of public recognition... Is it possible to attend med school for two years after finishing up the four year residency to receive a medical degree? (either before or after finishing your active duty service requirements)
 
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I've got another question here I'd like to ask...
I understand that the military no longer has the 6 year DDS/MD OMS programs. I really would like to practice as an DDS/MD OMS because it seems like it would allow me to have a larger scope of practice and for the sake of public recognition... Is it possible to attend med school for two years after finishing up the four year residency to receive a medical degree? (either before or after finishing your active duty service requirements)

No. Not without prior approval. There is no way to do it after your service - the military will not send you to a program that has a 6 yr program, and just adding on an additional 2 yrs - yrs after you graduate will not qualify you.

I would re-look the reasons you want the dual degree, and what the real benefits are - if you need the 6yr program don't join the military - or join after you are done with the program as a direct accession.

I would find some OMFS and ask them what the real benefit as opposed to the perceived benefit is.
 
No. Not without prior approval. There is no way to do it after your service - the military will not send you to a program that has a 6 yr program, and just adding on an additional 2 yrs - yrs after you graduate will not qualify you.

I would re-look the reasons you want the dual degree, and what the real benefits are - if you need the 6yr program don't join the military - or join after you are done with the program as a direct accession.

I would find some OMFS and ask them what the real benefit as opposed to the perceived benefit is.
That sounds like a great idea... I'll definately do that...

But my original question was whether I will be able to become a DDS/MD OMS if I enroll in med school that's not necessarily a part of the six year OMS residency program.

In other words, after my four years of active duty service as a DDS OMS if I decide to practice as an DDS/MD OMS in the civillian world, then can I go into med school for two years to receive an MD degree that would allow me to practice as a DDS/MD OMS?
 
That sounds like a great idea... I'll definately do that...

But my original question was whether I will be able to become a DDS/MD OMS if I enroll in med school that's not necessarily a part of the six year OMS residency program.

In other words, after my four years of active duty service as a DDS OMS if I decide to practice as an DDS/MD OMS in the civillian world, then can I go into med school for two years to receive an MD degree that would allow me to practice as a DDS/MD OMS?

I don't believe so. Only certain locations have the combined program, so not just any medical school would allow you to do that. You would have to do your homework and find out before hand what schools have them, and then give them a call and ask if you can receive an MD degree years after graduating OMFS - like I said - my guess is no.
 
there is no difference in scope of practice between the two.

the only reason to get the MD is for political reasons and because you are worried about physicians looking down at you....
 
there is no difference in scope of practice between the two.

the only reason to get the MD is for political reasons and because you are worried about physicians looking down at you....
Actually I just spoke with an OMS in Oregon and he told me that there are limits to the scope of practice in the West Coast. 4 year OMS residency would only allow you to do wisdom teeth extractions, orthonathics, etc., but wouldn't be able to do reconstructive, cancer surgery, and plastic surgery.
 
Actually I just spoke with an OMS in Oregon and he told me that there are limits to the scope of practice in the West Coast. 4 year OMS residency would only allow you to do wisdom teeth extractions, orthonathics, etc., but wouldn't be able to do reconstructive, cancer surgery, and plastic surgery.

i guess i don't know for certain, but i'd be willing to bet he's full of it.
 
Easiest way to verify is to contact the state dental association where you think you want to practice and ask. If there are limitations - it is not nationwide.

The American Board of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery doesn't differentiate between what procedures a Certificate or MD route OMFS can perform.
 
i guess i don't know for certain, but i'd be willing to bet he's full of it.

it's more likely that it is a political thing - such as MD facial cosmetic surgeons, or MD ENT's throwing a fit about OMS's doing some procedures - encroaching on their territory....then hospitals cave in to the pressure and just decide not to credential OMS's for some procedures.

i'm almost certain that there are no LEGAL restrictions on the scope of practice of an MD/DDS vs. a DDS.
 
There are a few places in the country that will allow you to go back and get your MD after your residency. I know Ghali had a nice greased runway at LSU Shreveport whereby certificated oral surgeons from other locations in the country could go and get their MD. There is a bunch of hoops but doable.

At my program you could go back and get your MD but you had to pass part I USMLE first and then you had 10-12 months of clerkships and then you could get your MD. You then had to do a year of general surgery/combined year to officially practice. I do know that there are certain state laws that apply. In Illinois you have to have at least so much time in medical school so the truncated MD education could cause problems in getting a state license. Others get "overseas" MD's that don't have the combined surgery/general surgery year and thus have come under heavy scrutiny....
 
I'm curious while you guys are in these difficult residencies, does your PT suffer? I mean thats a question for everyone, military and civillian, dental and medical, etc who are in these residencies, how do yall keep it up? Just try and shoehorn it in whenever you get a chance?
 
I'm curious while you guys are in these difficult residencies, does your PT suffer? I mean thats a question for everyone, military and civillian, dental and medical, etc who are in these residencies, how do yall keep it up? Just try and shoehorn it in whenever you get a chance?

When I did my externship at one of the AF residencies, they had PT on Wednesday mornings at 6am. They would do rounds from 5-6 and then head to track to meet up with the rest of the oral surgery flight. The workout was about 45 min and consisted of warm up, push ups, sit ups, and a run - nothing too serious. But most of the residents and staff work out on their own the rest of the week as well, usually first thing in the morning.....
 
I'm back briefly here. lol. Actually, I haven't posted in a looong time since my OMS residency started, so there is part of your answer. (I tried moderating this forum at one point too.) What specific questions do you or anyone have about Navy OMS programs? Residency can be what you make of it in a nut shell...ask away, I'm typing this during work, so I may run off to cover clinic whatever...

Oh and sorry to all those who wrote PMs to me...no excuses, but I honestly didn't have time...
 
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I'm back briefly here. lol. Actually, I haven't posted in a looong time since my OMS residency started, so there is part of your answer. (I tried moderating this forum at one point too.) What specific questions do you or anyone have about Navy OMS programs? Residency can be what you make of it in a nut shell...ask away, I'm typing this during work, so I may run off to cover clinic whatever...

Oh and sorry to all those who wrote PMs to me...no excuses, but I honestly didn't have time...

Wow, he arises from the dead! Here is a good example of the no time for life outside dentistry once in the OMS residency!
 
I'm back briefly here. lol. Actually, I haven't posted in a looong time since my OMS residency started, so there is part of your answer. (I tried moderating this forum at one point too.) What specific questions do you or anyone have about Navy OMS programs? Residency can be what you make of it in a nut shell...ask away, I'm typing this during work, so I may run off to cover clinic whatever...

Oh and sorry to all those who wrote PMs to me...no excuses, but I honestly didn't have time...

how is Ty (Damon) doing? are you ahead of, or behind him?
 
Is there anyone in this forum at Bethesda? I am just curious how it is going to work as they integrate with Walter-reed.
 
I'm seriously considering shooting for OMFS (assuming I can bring up my not so hot class rank...good board score though), so I figured I'd fire away some concerns here. Basically, I've been discussing it with my wife and with the OS director here at my school. As far as my wife is concerned, she doesn't like the idea of doing the residency while in the military, not b/c of the hours, but b/c she feels that I will almost certainly get deployed and never get to see our "children-to-be". We've talked about deferring, but that is only if the AF lets me...and also it seems that, since the military doesn't do much w/ implants yet, blah blah blah...that scope of OS training will basically be useless once you go military. We're also discussing the idea of doing my payback years for the HPSP (4 or 5 if I do the AEGD), and then doing a residency after I'm done...but I don't know if how I'd even pull that off (unless someone has some insight). Basically...I'm lookin for as many opinions as possible..b/c my wife and I are in a holding pattern right now with this whole thing..and I'm trying to decide sooner than later. If anyone has an opinion...you are more than welcome to share it. Thanks guys!
 
Shamrock, I just wanted to reply about the implants. I don't know if the perception about the military and implants is really all that true (at least in the OMS programs). I just recently returned from Travis AFB and I saw one resident place something like 6 implants in one week. He was also working concurrently on many other cases. They seemed to place many implants over at Travis, and at Lackland several residents were working on multiple cases with local dentists. From what I saw and was told by the residents, there is by no means a lack of implant training and placement in the AF OMS programs. What I experienced at the AF OMS programs, they seem to train the residents well for OS private practice.
 
I had the same experience here. I was in Bethesda for 1 week and I saw at least 4 implant cases with 3-5 implants being placed as well as sitting on an implant board where they were reviewing their upcoming cases. Not to mention they had a maxillofacial prosthodontist there treatment planning them on the restorative capacity of each situation. So I dont think this is a valid concern. As regards to the family stuff..... I dont know about air force vs navy but we pretty much know we will get deployed at one point or another its just part of the military even if your not OMS. It is just a commitment deal. My wife and I went through the same thing when i found out I was accepted. We have a baby on the way and she was very concerned about being gone all the time with training, the deployments, the commitment etc. We had to sit down and seriously decide what was best for our family, considering my personal needs/desires as a provider for our family (she plans on being a stay at home mom), and also my professional desires. You have to just decide what is really important to you and then just get in where you can get in to get the training. My class rank wasn't great so I really didn't even ask this question about civilian options. I just took what I was offered and thanked God for getting in! Sorry if i rambled. Hope this helps
 
Ok, so i'm a D2, and given that I do fine on boards i'm really looking at wanting to do OMFS w/ the Air Force at travis AFB. Can anyone that is currently or has already completed a military OMFS residency tell me what married life is like? I mean, are we talking literally not seeing your wife for four years or does it ease up certain years? Also, what is a typical daily schedule look like? up at 4:00 am, go to sleep at 1:00 am....not see your wife at all, this is what i'm gathering. is this exaggerated at all? I just don't understand how you make a marriage, especially a new one work under that schedule, unless you guys are all married to G.I. Jane wives who say "see you in a few years...".

Also, what is the total residency pay, with all the bonuses included, how many days off per year, and when exactly the program starts in the summer or fall...basically anything that you wish you had known going into it. Thanks alot!
 
Gentle,
I am simply commenting based on the observations and experiences I had at the OMS programs I visited in the AF.

The time spent in the hospital and on call all depends on what rotation you are on. Generally, the hardest and most demanding rotation is consistently the OMS rotation. Residents seemed to arrive anywhere between 0430 hrs to 0600 hrs to do pre-rounds, paperwork, study etc. After the work day finishes around 1630, residents must round, study, do lab work, paperwork, set up case presentations etc. They leave anywhere between 1930-0100hrs. Generally, earlier in the week the residents left a little earlier and as the week went on they stayed later and later each night until Thursday night when they sometimes sleep over, don't sleep or go home super late and come back at 0400. This is because Fridays are dedicated to case presentations that the residents present along with a day full of being grilled about the various cases that were seen that week. And, of course, if you are on call during these you take call and may not sleep at all during the week:love:. My friend who just finished at Lackland said one week during his first year he slept a total of 3 hours one week due to nonstop call.

Anesthesia is regarded as one of the easier rotations when some residents have been let off at early afternoon. I didn't get to see the other rotations, so I can't comment on them.

Hope that gives you a general idea of the type of schedule the residents have.

Ohh and just have your wife prepare to be a single mom for 4 years, because you won't be much help at all. She has to be as dedicated as you are to being an Oral surgeon for it to work out.
 
Just a little to add to this discussion. Everyone talks about how residency is demanding, but I have also heard a lot of it is how efficient you are. I mean after the first year or so, you are getting faster at rounding, reading, preparing presentations/cases so you might have a little and I emphasize LITTLE bit more of a life. That just seemed to be what some of the residents I know were saying. Also, you have to eval where you are applying. If it is a level 1 trauma center get familiar with the On call room and kiss your warm spot next to your wife goodbye, but if it is not then you should probably expect more house call. Please let me know if i'm wrong, but that seems to be what I hear.
 
I understand that an OMFS residency is extremely demanding, but what kind of time do you have to work out? Do you just try to fit it in? Obviously it is different than a civillian residency in that those folks don't 'have' to maintain any level of fitness...
 
I understand that an OMFS residency is extremely demanding, but what kind of time do you have to work out? Do you just try to fit it in? Obviously it is different than a civillian residency in that those folks don't 'have' to maintain any level of fitness...

On your own time - when you can find it.
 
Hello Everybody,
I hope this is right thread in which I am asking this question. I am a dentist and I graduated from BU this year from the advanced standing program. I wanted to join navy for work purposes. I am also interested to do my OMS residency in the future. Could anybody give me any suggestions as to how tough is it to get a job into navy or to get into OMS residency. Do I really need very high scores. I do have some work experience behind my back. Can I also directly apply for OMS residency in the navy or do I have to work for the navy and only then join residency.
 
Hello Everybody,
I hope this is right thread in which I am asking this question. I am a dentist and I graduated from BU this year from the advanced standing program. I wanted to join navy for work purposes. I am also interested to do my OMS residency in the future. Could anybody give me any suggestions as to how tough is it to get a job into navy or to get into OMS residency. Do I really need very high scores. I do have some work experience behind my back. Can I also directly apply for OMS residency in the navy or do I have to work for the navy and only then join residency.

You will have to join the Navy (or other service) first. Then apply for the programs as a dental officer. If you search the thread you can find information on the selection rates for the Air Force and Army - not sure that that information is out there for the Navy.
 
Can someone who is actually a current oral surgeon resident with the military tell me exactly how much greater the pay is than with civilian residencies? What is your take home pay and what do you expect to make after residency? Thank you very much!
 
i get about $84K - as an O-3 with 8 years. starting 90 days after i graduate, i'll get a $30K/year bonus for OMFS, plus i'll have four more years of service and will be an O-4, instead of O-3.
not sure how much more i'll make for the years of service and the promotion, but it should be in the $800-$1200/month ballpark on the base salary, depending on exactly where my years of service are.
 
Can someone who is actually a current oral surgeon resident with the military tell me exactly how much greater the pay is than with civilian residencies? What is your take home pay and what do you expect to make after residency? Thank you very much!

As umkc stated it goes up the longer you are in. If you were selected right out of school you could expect. Starting out as a new Captain will be around $75k. By the time you graduate the program you would be around $85k. You would then get the extra $30 k bonus that following year out (which you will continue to get year by year). You would be promoted to major at year #6 which would throw on another 800-1200/month (as umkc stated) - putting you around $140k/yr. After your obligation was completed around year #9-10 you would be eligible for the multi-year retention bonus which would add an extra 50k/year. So your salary at that point would be low $200k. By the time you reach Colonel you would be mid 200k as an oral surgeon.
 
Do any of you current OMS residents or graduated OMS'ers know what the quality of the Air Force's program is compared to civilian programs (specifically the one at Travis, but Lackland too)? Pay aside, obviously the military has the highest paid residencies, how is the training? Are there any short-falls you noticed or experience you didn't get that you wish you had? Also, what about strengths that are greater than in the civilian programs (I'm looking for specifics to training, not the ambiguous camaraderie sort of strengths). Do you get to do any plastics, how many implant cases do you see, what percent of time is spent in didatic training, other areas break down of percentagies i.e. dentoalveolar, orthognathic...etc. Thanks alot, this is really really helpful!
 
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