MOCA 2.0 Part 4 Question

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ZzzPlz

ZzzPlz

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I've decided I'll just do the simulation to fulfill part 4 requirement for MOCA 2.0.

Word on the street is that this requirement may change from traditional in-person simulations at a certified sim lab ($$$$) to an electronic version that would be easier and likely a lot cheaper and could be done from home.

Anyone know anything about this possible upcoming change?

Thanks
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ZzzPlz said:
I've decided I'll just do the simulation to fulfill part 4 requirement for MOCA 2.0.

Word on the street is that this requirement may change from traditional in-person simulations at a certified sim lab ($$$$) to an electronic version that would be easier and likely a lot cheaper and could be done from home.

Anyone know anything about this possible upcoming change?

Thanks
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They have invested so much $$$ into these simulations centers. I don't seecomputer simulation is in the works at least in near future.

They probably counting on $1500-1800 per person simulation money
 
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aneftp said:
They have invested so much $$$ into these simulations centers. I don't seecomputer simulation is in the works at least in near future.

They probably counting on $1500-1800 per person simulation money
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I agree, it would be politically difficult to tell these simulation centers that they are no longer getting that easy money, and that's probably why the ABA made the other pathways to fulfilling part 4 so ambiguous and difficult for the average private practice anesthesiologist, so you would say: screw it, I'll just give them the money and move on with my life.
 
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Planktonmd said:
I agree, it would be politically difficult to tell these simulation centers that they are no longer getting that easy money, and that's probably why the ABA made the other pathways to fulfilling part 4 so ambiguous and difficult for the average private practice anesthesiologist, so you would say: screw it, I'll just give them the money and move on with my life.
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Their is always the AANA.
 
Solution: boycott MOCA and stay board certified with NBPAS.

It is soooooo nice not to have to think about MOCA anymore.
 
On an unrelated note... Just did my first 30 MOCA minute questions and had 7 questions show up twice!!!!!

Not bad for padding my %correct, I must say
 
ZzzPlz said:
On an unrelated note... Just did my first 30 MOCA minute questions and had 7 questions show up twice!!!!!

Not bad for padding my %correct, I must say
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So you're saying that despite paying your $210, the ABA didn't find it necessary to give you 30 unique questions?

What a scam.
 
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I have plenty of CME credits. I don't have plenty of MOCA Part 4 credits.

If you start fellowship right after residency I think you can delay the MOCA nonsense, but I'm about 7 years into MOCA now so I need to get the boxes checked. About all I can make time for this year is the MOCA Minute silliness.
 
PGG, does your program have any type of sim center? Even if not one of the big accredited sites, you may still be able to get them to do a session for you, and get your 25, or whatever, points for free.
 
psychbender said:
PGG, does your program have any type of sim center? Even if not one of the big accredited sites, you may still be able to get them to do a session for you, and get your 25, or whatever, points for free.
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I thought it had to be a sim center approved by the ABA, is that optional?
 
Planktonmd said:
I thought it had to be a sim center approved by the ABA, is that optional?
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I just check the ABA site for MOCA 2.0 Part 4 options, a MOCA sim course with review is worth up to 25 points. "Other simulation course" is also an option, but only grants 15 points. So, you would still have to document 10 points worth of other activities, which they make a giant pain in the ass to do.
 
psychbender said:
PGG, does your program have any type of sim center? Even if not one of the big accredited sites, you may still be able to get them to do a session for you, and get your 25, or whatever, points for free.
Click to expand...
USUHS has one. A year ago, the NMCP sim center was working on getting certified by the ABA for MOCA sims ... don't think that's happened yet. Getting it done free at one of those places is my plan B if I can't scratch out enough credits via the non-sim options.

I'm not sure if my fellowship institution has one. I haven't looked. If they do, I bet it's not free.

I can't give the ABA (or anyone else) any extra money for this nonsense. I just can't.
 
Going to the simulation center is the easy part. Get it done in one day. The annoying part is the homework they give you afterwards which can take months.
 
Outrigger said:
Going to the simulation center is the easy part. Get it done in one day. The annoying part is the homework they give you afterwards which can take months.
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Seriously? I thought it was basically a survey. Is it really that much work?
 
You have to design and implement 3 practice improvement projects based on what you learned at the simulation center.

Admittedly, they can be as simple as you wish but it is still time consuming.
 
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pgg said:
USUHS has one. A year ago, the NMCP sim center was working on getting certified by the ABA for MOCA sims ... don't think that's happened yet. Getting it done free at one of those places is my plan B if I can't scratch out enough credits via the non-sim options.

I'm not sure if my fellowship institution has one. I haven't looked. If they do, I bet it's not free.

I can't give the ABA (or anyone else) any extra money for this nonsense. I just can't.
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Oh yes, your fellowship institution has a BIG simulation center. It may not be free buy you can ask for a large discount.
 
Hawaiian Bruin said:
http://changeboardrecert.com/documents/ABOA_dec16.doc

Open Letter to the ABA-opting out of MOCA
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I admit you have large cojones. Most would be prudent to re-certify 1-2 times before deciding to opt-out of the process. I have lifetime certification by the ABA and am re-certifying for the second and final time very soon. I agree that the MOCA adds little value to the practice of Anesthesiology and the ACE/SEE are much more valuable as a learning tool than any of the MOCA activities.
 
BLADEMDA said:
My hospital just started allowing NBPAS.org for re-certification. Keep up the good work. If I have lifetime certification and re-certification via MOCA (voluntary) until 2027 do I need to sign up for NBPAS?
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That is fantastic! If you're already lifetime certified, there's no personal need, but I do think that every additional person who signs up for NBPAS further legitimizes it and its mission.

My ABA cert runs for a few more years (even though I am publicly listed as not participating in MOC on its website), but I chose to join NBPAS to support it and to legitimize it.

I encourage others to do the same.
 
IlDestriero said:
It says I can't do any MM questions now. I'm not sure why as it's a new quarter. Maybe I did so well they are giving me a year off. 😉

You have to pay for the year and update your profiles before they let you have more questions
--
Il Destriero
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Nevermind, just saw your other post
 
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lifetime certification, but not participating in MOCA might not be enough... It is possible for an employer to require MOCA or a medical staff to require new appointees to participate.
 
dr doze said:
lifetime certification, but not participating in MOCA might not be enough... It is possible for an employer to require MOCA or a medical staff to require new appointees to participate.
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Doze,

I have recertification until 2027 plus lifetime certification. Is that good enough?

I'm not aware of requiring MOCA if I'm recertified until 2027 then retire?

I guess I can start NBPAS in a couple of years.
 
BLADEMDA said:
Doze,

I have recertification until 2027 plus lifetime certification. Is that good enough?

I'm not aware of requiring MOCA if I'm recertified until 2027 then retire?

I guess I can start NBPAS in a couple of years.
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That is plenty. A friend of mine's new employment contract has part of his pay tied to participating in MOCA. In this one instance lifetime cert is not equal to moca. It is certainly possible that this is a trend that may continue and grow.


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dr doze said:
That is plenty. A friend of mine's new employment contract has part of his pay tied to participating in MOCA. In this one instance lifetime cert is not equal to moca. It is certainly possible that this is a trend that may continue and grow.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
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MOCA isn't that hard to do. MOCA minutes and then 2 full days at a simulation center over 10 years. The improvement projects are just busy work and easily accomplished.

Most employers wants "certified" Anesthesiologists and could care less about MOCA. As long as the ABA says you are certified then 95%+ of employers would be fine with it. Loss of ABA Certification could be more problematic for some Anesthesiologists.
 
Hawaiian Bruin said:
That is fantastic! If you're already lifetime certified, there's no personal need, but I do think that every additional person who signs up for NBPAS further legitimizes it and its mission.

My ABA cert runs for a few more years (even though I am publicly listed as not participating in MOC on its website), but I chose to join NBPAS to support it and to legitimize it.

I encourage others to do the same.
Click to expand...

It would be nice if there were multiple options for certification/recertification, but totally abandoning the ABA process could really bite someone in the ass down the road if they are looking to change jobs. My hospital won't credential you if you are not either board certified (or eligible) and they make maintenance mandatory when you get recredentialed. Just wait til insurers refuse to pay for your services. And once you drop the ball on the recert process, I'm fairly certain you need to go back for additional approved training to get back in.

No thanks.

Is it a dumb process? Sure. Is it a lot of money? Of course not. I understand the principle of people wanting to opt out of it, but they need to be aware of potential future ramifications of that choice. I try not to burn bridges if I can help it.
 
No doubt, I've always said that anybody whose career is not set in stone should stay with the ABA for the time being.

The tipping point will come once enough states outlaw mandating MOC for credentialing or insurance. That is already starting to happen.
 
Maintenance of certification may also contribute to a growing physician shortage. Edison said she hears more doctors talking about retiring, rather than going through the certification process again.

Edison hopes private certification boards will make changes to ease the burden on physicians, although she wonders whether they will actually do so without legislation such as what’s pending in Michigan or has been passed in Oklahoma and Kentucky.

“I don’t think these boards are going to change until they start feeling the heat, which would mean physicians not participating,” she said. “Right now, physicians can’t stop participating because they will lose their jobs, they will lose their insurance participation, and they will lose their ability to have privileges at a hospital. Until we are free to choose, I don’t think they are going to change.
https://mibiz.com/item/23667-bill-would-ease-process-for-doctors-to-maintain-certification
 
vail said:
It turns out that you don't need to complete a simulation to satisfy Part 4 of MOCA 2.0. You can also complete Part 4 for free. This post on Part 4 is helpful:

Gems about Part 4 of MOCA 2.0 that every anesthesiologist needs to know
View attachment 292565
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I don’t understand why anyone would do a simulation. The other Part 4 choices are super easy to accomplish, and you likely have met them already. As a PP guy even a little involved in leadership, I probably meet the 5 years of requirements every couple months.

When I turned them in, I did write myself a little note with details about the ones I turned in, just in case it was ever questioned, but even that isn’t required.
 
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