MOCA 2.0 Part 4 Question

Discussion in 'Anesthesiology' started by ZzzPlz, Jan 9, 2017.

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  1. ZzzPlz

    ZzzPlz ASA Member 5+ Year Member

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    I've decided I'll just do the simulation to fulfill part 4 requirement for MOCA 2.0.

    Word on the street is that this requirement may change from traditional in-person simulations at a certified sim lab ($$$$) to an electronic version that would be easier and likely a lot cheaper and could be done from home.

    Anyone know anything about this possible upcoming change?

    Thanks
     
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  3. aneftp

    aneftp 7+ Year Member

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    They have invested so much $$$ into these simulations centers. I don't seecomputer simulation is in the works at least in near future.

    They probably counting on $1500-1800 per person simulation money
     
  4. narcusprince

    narcusprince Rough Rider 10+ Year Member

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    The gamma quadrant
    Any of you guys interested in simulation theory?
     
  5. sigrhoillusion

    sigrhoillusion ASA Member 2+ Year Member

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    Can we play SimCity instead...?
     
  6. Planktonmd

    Planktonmd Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

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    I agree, it would be politically difficult to tell these simulation centers that they are no longer getting that easy money, and that's probably why the ABA made the other pathways to fulfilling part 4 so ambiguous and difficult for the average private practice anesthesiologist, so you would say: screw it, I'll just give them the money and move on with my life.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
    ZzzPlz likes this.
  7. narcusprince

    narcusprince Rough Rider 10+ Year Member

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    The gamma quadrant
    Their is always the AANA.
     
  8. Planktonmd

    Planktonmd Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

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    :thinking:
     
  9. narcusprince

    narcusprince Rough Rider 10+ Year Member

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    The gamma quadrant
    If the simulation centers go bust the AANA will use them.
     
  10. Planktonmd

    Planktonmd Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

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    I hope some uses them so they leave us alone!
     
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  11. Hawaiian Bruin

    Hawaiian Bruin Breaking Good 10+ Year Member

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    Solution: boycott MOCA and stay board certified with NBPAS.

    It is soooooo nice not to have to think about MOCA anymore.
     
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  12. ZzzPlz

    ZzzPlz ASA Member 5+ Year Member

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    On an unrelated note... Just did my first 30 MOCA minute questions and had 7 questions show up twice!!!!!

    Not bad for padding my %correct, I must say
     
  13. Hawaiian Bruin

    Hawaiian Bruin Breaking Good 10+ Year Member

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    So you're saying that despite paying your $210, the ABA didn't find it necessary to give you 30 unique questions?

    What a scam.
     
  14. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they? SDN Moderator 10+ Year Member

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    Deja vu

    I did a tally of the repeats last year:

    https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/moca.1208914/

    Haven't done my questions for this quarter yet. I feel like I ought to get 783,000 MOCA PRT 4 credits and a year off from MOCA Minute for being a fellow.


    It's ridiculous.
     
  15. IlDestriero

    IlDestriero Ether Man 7+ Year Member

    You used to get 50 CME credits for completion of an approved fellowship.


    --
    Il Destriero
     
  16. sigrhoillusion

    sigrhoillusion ASA Member 2+ Year Member

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    You still get 50 CME credits...

    And I was exempt from MOCA until 2017.
     
  17. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they? SDN Moderator 10+ Year Member

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    I have plenty of CME credits. I don't have plenty of MOCA Part 4 credits.

    If you start fellowship right after residency I think you can delay the MOCA nonsense, but I'm about 7 years into MOCA now so I need to get the boxes checked. About all I can make time for this year is the MOCA Minute silliness.
     
  18. IlDestriero

    IlDestriero Ether Man 7+ Year Member

    It says I can't do any MM questions now. I'm not sure why as it's a new quarter. Maybe I did so well they are giving me a year off. ;)


    --
    Il Destriero
     
  19. psychbender

    psychbender Cynical Member 10+ Year Member

    PGG, does your program have any type of sim center? Even if not one of the big accredited sites, you may still be able to get them to do a session for you, and get your 25, or whatever, points for free.
     
  20. Planktonmd

    Planktonmd Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

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    I thought it had to be a sim center approved by the ABA, is that optional?
     
  21. psychbender

    psychbender Cynical Member 10+ Year Member

    I just check the ABA site for MOCA 2.0 Part 4 options, a MOCA sim course with review is worth up to 25 points. "Other simulation course" is also an option, but only grants 15 points. So, you would still have to document 10 points worth of other activities, which they make a giant pain in the ass to do.
     
  22. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they? SDN Moderator 10+ Year Member

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    USUHS has one. A year ago, the NMCP sim center was working on getting certified by the ABA for MOCA sims ... don't think that's happened yet. Getting it done free at one of those places is my plan B if I can't scratch out enough credits via the non-sim options.

    I'm not sure if my fellowship institution has one. I haven't looked. If they do, I bet it's not free.

    I can't give the ABA (or anyone else) any extra money for this nonsense. I just can't.
     
  23. IlDestriero

    IlDestriero Ether Man 7+ Year Member

    I thought my sim was interesting a few years ago. And the department paid for it. That helped.


    --
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  24. Hawaiian Bruin

    Hawaiian Bruin Breaking Good 10+ Year Member

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  25. Outrigger

    Outrigger 5+ Year Member

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    Going to the simulation center is the easy part. Get it done in one day. The annoying part is the homework they give you afterwards which can take months.
     
  26. ZzzPlz

    ZzzPlz ASA Member 5+ Year Member

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    Seriously? I thought it was basically a survey. Is it really that much work?
     
  27. Planktonmd

    Planktonmd Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

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    Seriously?
     
  28. Outrigger

    Outrigger 5+ Year Member

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    You have to design and implement 3 practice improvement projects based on what you learned at the simulation center.

    Admittedly, they can be as simple as you wish but it is still time consuming.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2017
  29. ZzzPlz

    ZzzPlz ASA Member 5+ Year Member

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    Mine will be simple and fast
     
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  30. ZzzPlz

    ZzzPlz ASA Member 5+ Year Member

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    Might have my wife write it :p
     
  31. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member 10+ Year Member

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    Oh yes, your fellowship institution has a BIG simulation center. It may not be free buy you can ask for a large discount.
     
  32. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member 10+ Year Member

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    I admit you have large cojones. Most would be prudent to re-certify 1-2 times before deciding to opt-out of the process. I have lifetime certification by the ABA and am re-certifying for the second and final time very soon. I agree that the MOCA adds little value to the practice of Anesthesiology and the ACE/SEE are much more valuable as a learning tool than any of the MOCA activities.
     
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  33. IlDestriero

    IlDestriero Ether Man 7+ Year Member

    I figured out the problem. I have to pay another $100.
    Should have known!



    --
    Il Destriero
     
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  34. Hawaiian Bruin

    Hawaiian Bruin Breaking Good 10+ Year Member

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    NBPAS.org

    Just say no.
     
  35. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they? SDN Moderator 10+ Year Member

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  36. caligas

    caligas ASA Member 2+ Year Member

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    My certification is good through this year so it has been letting me do the moca minute for "free". But it still makes me register each year.
     
  37. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member 10+ Year Member

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    My hospital just started allowing NBPAS.org for re-certification. Keep up the good work. If I have lifetime certification and re-certification via MOCA (voluntary) until 2027 do I need to sign up for NBPAS?
     
  38. Hawaiian Bruin

    Hawaiian Bruin Breaking Good 10+ Year Member

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    That is fantastic! If you're already lifetime certified, there's no personal need, but I do think that every additional person who signs up for NBPAS further legitimizes it and its mission.

    My ABA cert runs for a few more years (even though I am publicly listed as not participating in MOC on its website), but I chose to join NBPAS to support it and to legitimize it.

    I encourage others to do the same.
     
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  39. sethco

    sethco Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Nevermind, just saw your other post
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2017
  40. dr doze

    dr doze To be able to forget means to sanity Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

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    lifetime certification, but not participating in MOCA might not be enough... It is possible for an employer to require MOCA or a medical staff to require new appointees to participate.
     
  41. nimbus

    nimbus Member 10+ Year Member

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    Lifetime cert, no MOCA, no issues yet. Lifetime cert means lifetime cert, no?
     
  42. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member 10+ Year Member

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    Doze,

    I have recertification until 2027 plus lifetime certification. Is that good enough?

    I'm not aware of requiring MOCA if I'm recertified until 2027 then retire?

    I guess I can start NBPAS in a couple of years.
     
  43. dr doze

    dr doze To be able to forget means to sanity Lifetime Donor 10+ Year Member

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    That is plenty. A friend of mine's new employment contract has part of his pay tied to participating in MOCA. In this one instance lifetime cert is not equal to moca. It is certainly possible that this is a trend that may continue and grow.


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
     
  44. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member 10+ Year Member

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    MOCA isn't that hard to do. MOCA minutes and then 2 full days at a simulation center over 10 years. The improvement projects are just busy work and easily accomplished.

    Most employers wants "certified" Anesthesiologists and could care less about MOCA. As long as the ABA says you are certified then 95%+ of employers would be fine with it. Loss of ABA Certification could be more problematic for some Anesthesiologists.
     
  45. Mman

    Mman Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    It would be nice if there were multiple options for certification/recertification, but totally abandoning the ABA process could really bite someone in the ass down the road if they are looking to change jobs. My hospital won't credential you if you are not either board certified (or eligible) and they make maintenance mandatory when you get recredentialed. Just wait til insurers refuse to pay for your services. And once you drop the ball on the recert process, I'm fairly certain you need to go back for additional approved training to get back in.

    No thanks.

    Is it a dumb process? Sure. Is it a lot of money? Of course not. I understand the principle of people wanting to opt out of it, but they need to be aware of potential future ramifications of that choice. I try not to burn bridges if I can help it.
     
    dmk5n likes this.
  46. Hawaiian Bruin

    Hawaiian Bruin Breaking Good 10+ Year Member

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    No doubt, I've always said that anybody whose career is not set in stone should stay with the ABA for the time being.

    The tipping point will come once enough states outlaw mandating MOC for credentialing or insurance. That is already starting to happen.
     
    dmk5n and BLADEMDA like this.
  47. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member 10+ Year Member

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    Maintenance of certification may also contribute to a growing physician shortage. Edison said she hears more doctors talking about retiring, rather than going through the certification process again.

    Edison hopes private certification boards will make changes to ease the burden on physicians, although she wonders whether they will actually do so without legislation such as what’s pending in Michigan or has been passed in Oklahoma and Kentucky.

    “I don’t think these boards are going to change until they start feeling the heat, which would mean physicians not participating,” she said. “Right now, physicians can’t stop participating because they will lose their jobs, they will lose their insurance participation, and they will lose their ability to have privileges at a hospital. Until we are free to choose, I don’t think they are going to change.
    https://mibiz.com/item/23667-bill-would-ease-process-for-doctors-to-maintain-certification
     

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