MOCA/CME

[ether123]

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Hey guys,

Does anyone know where we can find cheap, simply CMEs? So far I have been directed to 2 sites:

The ABA ACE program
https://ace.asahq.org/web/

Which offer 60 CME for $360 if you are asa member, $830 for non-members. This comes out to $6/credit for members, and $13.8/credit for non-members.

The other one I was told about is from JustMedical

http://www.justoralboards.com/index_files/Page1044.htm

which is 39 CME for $199 for asa members and $395 for non-members. This comes out to $5.10/credit for members and $10.12/credit for non-members.

Both offer AMA PRA 1 credit and I ABA accepts them. Are there any cheaper out there? I know there are some free ones but it appears they take forever to do and u get like 1 or 2 credits after one hour of work.

We apparently need 250 CME credits just to sit for the written. Any insights anyone can give would be great. As of right now, I'm going with JustMedical because it is cheaper and faster. Please help!!!

 

[aneftp]

This is a little trick. Sign up for ASA member half year so your fees are pro rated.

Than sign up for 2013 and 2014 ASA ACE programs. Bam. That takes care of 120 credits (60 for 2013 and 60 for 2014) for member rates.

Than let membership expire. Repeat again at end of 2015 (sign up for ASA end of half the year). Sign for 2015 and 2016 ACE exams are member rates.

That will lower your average cost per cme.

 

[ether123]

hmmm....sounds a little shady. I prefer to just stay an ASA member if I do this so that my CME number never comes into question if ever there is an audit. I know the ABA and ASA are working together, so I'd rather stay legit. Anyone else have any thoughts on JustMedical?

http://www.justoralboards.com/index_files/Page1044.htm

Please let me know.

 

[countingdays]

What is your affiliation with JustMedical?

 

[Mman]

Hey guys,

Does anyone know where we can find cheap, simply CMEs? So far I have been directed to 2 sites:

The ABA ACE program
https://ace.asahq.org/web/

Which offer 60 CME for $360 if you are asa member, $830 for non-members. This comes out to $6/credit for members, and $13.8/credit for non-members.

The other one I was told about is from JustMedical

http://www.justoralboards.com/index_files/Page1044.htm

which is 39 CME for $199 for asa members and $395 for non-members. This comes out to $5.10/credit for members and $10.12/credit for non-members.

Both offer AMA PRA 1 credit and I ABA accepts them. Are there any cheaper out there? I know there are some free ones but it appears they take forever to do and u get like 1 or 2 credits after one hour of work.

We apparently need 250 CME credits just to sit for the written. Any insights anyone can give would be great. As of right now, I'm going with JustMedical because it is cheaper and faster. Please help!!!

Weirdest question I can recall seeing in a while.

It's not that you need 250 CME credits (you do), it's that you can only count a maximum of 60 in 1 year a this point. From 2006-12 you could claim up to 70 credits in a year. But if you don't have any CME, it's going to be 5 years before you can rack up enough to get to 250 (4 years @ 60 per year is 240). Cost can't be much of an issue for anybody seeing as how it's tax deductible.

 

[aneftp]

Weirdest question I can recall seeing in a while.

It's not that you need 250 CME credits (you do), it's that you can only count a maximum of 60 in 1 year a this point. From 2006-12 you could claim up to 70 credits in a year. But if you don't have any CME, it's going to be 5 years before you can rack up enough to get to 250 (4 years @ 60 per year is 240). Cost can't be much of an issue for anybody seeing as how it's tax deductible.

It's not tax deductible if you are W2 employee. Especially if you don't get much CME money to began with as a W2.

So cost should be a factor.

 

[pgg]

Weirdest question I can recall seeing in a while.

Yeah. 5 months ago he was asking for CME information to help one of his attendings recertify.

What is your affiliation with JustMedical?

 

[chmd]

This is a little trick. Sign up for ASA member half year so your fees are pro rated.

Than sign up for 2013 and 2014 ASA ACE programs. Bam. That takes care of 120 credits (60 for 2013 and 60 for 2014) for member rates.

Than let membership expire. Repeat again at end of 2015 (sign up for ASA end of half the year). Sign for 2015 and 2016 ACE exams are member rates.

That will lower your average cost per cme.

I don't understand why you wouldn't want to be ASA member? Especially with the future of physician anesthesiology in trouble.

 

[aneftp]

I don't understand why you wouldn't want to be ASA member? Especially with the future of physician anesthesiology in trouble.

Because ASA is slow as molasses in terms of responding to techniques I have suggested to curb loss revenue to management companies and expansion of mid levels towards independent practices.

1. Attack the cost effectiveness model
(CRNAs aren't "cheaper"
2. Attack management companies some of whom are cronies of Rick Scott from HCA heydays for putting individual anesthesiologist and smaller groups are a disadvantage for illegal company model

All they keep on asking is for more money yet I seem very little happening over the years.

 

[pgg]

Because ASA is slow as molasses in terms of responding to techniques I have suggested to curb loss revenue to management companies and expansion of mid levels towards independent practices.

1. Attack the cost effectiveness model
(CRNAs aren't "cheaper"
2. Attack management companies some of whom are cronies of Rick Scott from HCA heydays for putting individual anesthesiologist and smaller groups are a disadvantage for illegal company model

All they keep on asking is for more money yet I seem very little happening over the years.

ASAPAC is where the national effort is, and you need to be an ASA member to donate to ASAPAC.

Efforts from state societies affect local issues, and you need to be an ASA member to be a member of your state society.

There's no good reason to not be an ASA member.

Slow as molasses? Maybe. But what other organization can one donate to in order to lobby on your behalf?

What you're telling us, is that you prefer to do nothing instead of contribute to an imperfect organization.


I gave the finger to the AMA a couple years ago, ended my membership, and won't give them any more money because those wankers are actively working AGAINST us. But the ASA? Member. ASAPAC - I've been a Chairman's Council donor the last two years and I make military pay, half or a third what you PP high rollers make.

There is absolutely no reason every single anesthesiologist (and resident!) can't set up a $20/month automatic credit card donation to ASAPAC and do something to protect their specialty.

 

[pgg]

Which reminds me, my card expired and my automatic donations to ASAPAC stopped a couple months ago ...

Donating is easy:

Donating can be cheap. You can set up monthly automatic donations:

Donating is done:

Everyone, please do something besides type on a message board. Every SRNA and CRNA is an AANA member. Hell, SRNA dues are typically rolled into their tuition ...

 

[deleted126335]

Agree with pgg. I have also been a Chairman's council member for years.

 

[aneftp]

Which reminds me, my card expired and my automatic donations to ASAPAC stopped a couple months ago ...

Donating is easy:

Donating can be cheap. You can set up monthly automatic donations:

Donating is done:

Everyone, please do something besides type on a message board. Every SRNA and CRNA is an AANA member. Hell, SRNA dues are typically rolled into their tuition ...

ASA membership need to be streamline.

Make it $1000/year and that's it.

Problem is they have 50 different state society dues. Come on. It's plain stupidly that they continue to employ 50 different societies.

 

[ether123]

Gypsysongman, if you are not in academics where they have journal club, grand rounds, wed. morning meetings (educational CME qualifying ones), then cost is an issue because 250 CME credits do cost almost $1,000 and u cant easily deduct them off of a W-2. As far my affiliation with Just Medical is concerned, it is just as strong as the ASA's ACE program, which is to say that I have none. Thanks PGG for looking at my previous posts to see what else I've posted. I've been looking for affordable CMEs for a while, first for my attending and now for myself. If u look at my other posts, they have been on every possible topic u can ask for, not just CMEs.

Personally I think this whole CME thing is nonsense when I see how many people sign up for a conference in a place like Aruba, sign in at the desk without attending lectures, and then "log in" 20-25 CME credits. All this to make the trip a write-off. What a joke. Regardless, I don't have a budget for trips like that right now, i just want to satisfy this requirement as painlessly as possible bec i know its all garbage. If anyone else has any useful thoughts, I'm all ears.

 

[Mman]

Gypsysongman, if you are not in academics where they have journal club, grand rounds, wed. morning meetings (educational CME qualifying ones), then cost is an issue because 250 CME credits do cost almost $1,000 and u cant easily deduct them off of a W-2. As far my affiliation with Just Medical is concerned, it is just as strong as the ASA's ACE program, which is to say that I have none. Thanks PGG for looking at my previous posts to see what else I've posted. I've been looking for affordable CMEs for a while, first for my attending and now for myself. If u look at my other posts, they have been on every possible topic u can ask for, not just CMEs.

Personally I think this whole CME thing is nonsense when I see how many people sign up for a conference in a place like Aruba, sign in at the desk without attending lectures, and then "log in" 20-25 CME credits. All this to make the trip a write-off. What a joke. Regardless, I don't have a budget for trips like that right now, i just want to satisfy this requirement as painlessly as possible bec i know its all garbage. If anyone else has any useful thoughts, I'm all ears.

I sincerely hope that if you are in private practice you can manage to afford that $1000 over the course of 5 years without going bankrupt.

I agree that to some extent CME is a money grubbing scam. I personally prefer to use American Seminar Institute to scam right back. I tell them where I'm going on vacation and they send me some CME to do there and then provide me with a certificate stating I completed the course in whatever location I chose. Tax deductible vacation saves me more money than I spent on the CME.

 

[ether123]

Mman, please do yourself a favor and have your lawyer or accountant look into American Seminar Institute before you start making tax deductions. In my opinion this is highly questionable. Self study does not require travel, lodging, etc like some seminars. Those seminars are considered deductible business expenses as are related costs. The general rule is that for an expense to be deductible as a business expense it must be reasonable, ordinary, and necessary for the conduct of business. I would use those guidelines carefully since they are the guides IRS auditors follow.

American Seminar Institute merely mails you material - material they could easily mail to your house - to your hotel or vacation spot. There is no need to travel to the destination to obtain the CME. IF you get audited, be prepared to pay the IRS back for however many years you pull this stunt and also pay penalties and interest.

Again, is there anyone on this forum that can guide me to cheaper CMEs than this group, Just Medical? So far I have heard of 2 shady approached to CME. Im a straight shooter, just want to save money but without doing anything illegal or shady.

 

[Oggg]

I have Norcal mutual malpractice insurance, and they have a b load of free CME, if you are enrolled with them

 

[Mman]

Mman, please do yourself a favor and have your lawyer or accountant look into American Seminar Institute before you start making tax deductions. In my opinion this is highly questionable. Self study does not require travel, lodging, etc like some seminars. Those seminars are considered deductible business expenses as are related costs. The general rule is that for an expense to be deductible as a business expense it must be reasonable, ordinary, and necessary for the conduct of business. I would use those guidelines carefully since they are the guides IRS auditors follow.

American Seminar Institute merely mails you material - material they could easily mail to your house - to your hotel or vacation spot. There is no need to travel to the destination to obtain the CME. IF you get audited, be prepared to pay the IRS back for however many years you pull this stunt and also pay penalties and interest.

Again, is there anyone on this forum that can guide me to cheaper CMEs than this group, Just Medical? So far I have heard of 2 shady approached to CME. Im a straight shooter, just want to save money but without doing anything illegal or shady.

Already run by accountant and lawyer and they've been doing it for decades. If you think the IRS is getting their panties in a wad over a business expense for a corporation that amounts to <1% of annual revenue of the corporation, well you don't know how they work. Hell, I've had colleagues get audited and nothing came up about their use of it.

Is it morally questionable? Of course. But so is my effective tax rate of around 45%.

 

[countingdays]

This isn't the place to advertise some CMEs of unknown quality that are only marginally less expensive than ACE questions.
Saving $200 over 10 years isn't a huge deal. I have an education allowance that pays for it, but I'd still do ACE if I had to pay out of pocket. I like the ACE questions.

 

[ether123]

Thanks GypsySongman for your continued helpful comments, both of which accuse me of 'advertising' for a course just because I said it seems like a good deal. Using your own logic, I guess you must be 'affiliated' with the ACE questions, since that seems to be your preference. Oh and btw, since you have an education allowance, and money is not an issue, maybe you can pay for our ACE questions as well. Sorry for the sarcasm, but your continued accusations against me over this are quite frustrating.

 

[Mman]

Thanks GypsySongman for your continued helpful comments, both of which accuse me of 'advertising' for a course just because I said it seems like a good deal. Using your own logic, I guess you must be 'affiliated' with the ACE questions, since that seems to be your preference. Oh and btw, since you have an education allowance, and money is not an issue, maybe you can pay for our ACE questions as well. Sorry for the sarcasm, but your continued accusations against me over this are quite frustrating.

All members of the ASA are affiliated with the ACE questions.

 

[countingdays]

Thanks GypsySongman for your continued helpful comments, both of which accuse me of 'advertising' for a course just because I said it seems like a good deal. Using your own logic, I guess you must be 'affiliated' with the ACE questions, since that seems to be your preference. Oh and btw, since you have an education allowance, and money is not an issue, maybe you can pay for our ACE questions as well. Sorry for the sarcasm, but your continued accusations against me over this are quite frustrating.

Well are you?