Money Matters

[29DATyep]

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Should money be an issue when deciding which school to attend? Why or Why not? Is there that big of a difference amongst dental schools why one school may cost 200,000 dollars more than another?

 

[papichulo]

Should money be an issue when deciding which school to attend? Why or Why not? Is there that big of a difference amongst dental schools why one school may cost 200,000 dollars more than another?

I actually had a conversation with a few dentists today (2 dentists and 3 residents) about this very topic. They each attended different schools and guess what-they each said money, patient volume, and location should be the most important factors. Whether or not the facilities are good don't change the fact that you can develop equal skills no matter where you go. You have to put in the effort to get top board scores no matter where you go. That was there two cents (that equals 10 cents!) about the issue.

 

[jackbauer!]

Is there that big of a difference amongst dental schools why one school may cost 200,000 dollars more than another?

mmmm yea. some are supported by the state and other are not. simpleeeee

jb!🙂

 

[dentalman]

Is 200,000 dollars a lot of money to you? If paid off over 10 years at 6.8% (what the federal stafford loans are now fixed at), then the payments are 2,300 a month! Even worse, once you go to a more expensive school, you have to take out non-Stafford loans which are at an even higher rate. So the extra loans cost even more. You could pay it off over 30 years, of coure, but end up paying a lot more in the long run.

For calculations go to:
http://www.finaid.org/calculators/scripts/loanpayments.cgi

I don't know why pre-dents think they are going to make so much money that loans are no big deal. Loans are a big deal. And it is going to take several years until you raise your initial income.

 

[armorshell]

Some of us were lucky enough to not get accepted to any cheap schools; makes the decision so much easier 😉

Money is highly important, it's the difference between clearing 90k your first year out and clearing 60k

 

[Turnerjo13]

Just a rough calculation:

Average $100,000 a year take home pay over 30+ years career= over 3mil in total earnings for a career. (probably a low estimate)

a few thousand extra bucks for a better education and to be passionate about the school that your at ain't that much in the long run. especially if its for a better clinical program where you will have better skills and be able to make more sooner. I don't know about you but i can live off of way less than 3 mil for the rest of my life and be totally happy.

 

[dddsmack]

I was told by a recent D school grad that unless the cost is over $100,000 total difference then not to worry about it.

I think I will follow this line of thinking.

 

[mmasurf]

an avg dentist makes 90-120,000 so i have no idea why it would take 30 years to pay off 200,000 are you guys joking? it should take mim 5 years, if u just live/ and eat u can live off 20,000 a year so do the math, 30 years is ridiculous. and in the end names of schools matter like who wants to goto some crappy school no one has heard off just to save 50,000 and not have the chance to utilize some of the best technology expensive schools have to offer.

 

[RockstarDMD]

in the end names of schools matter like who wants to goto some crappy school no one has heard off just to save 50,000

I think your rationale is a little unrealistic. A lot of predents feel that UOP is the best school for example. However, start asking random people (not associated with dentistry ), if they have heard of UOP. I think you will be surprised with the answer. Paying high dollar does not always justify a better education, and paying for a name in the long run generally only accomplishes feeding the ego. This is especially true when it comes to dentistry. In making your decision in where to attend I think most would agree to attend a school with a good clinical reputation and a large patient pool. Don't be fooled by some new schools either that try to claim all of the above. If a school claims high patient pool ask for proof. Good Luck everyone!😉

 

[wizziefiend]

I think your rationale is a little unrealistic. A lot of predents feel that UOP is the best school for example. However, start asking random people (not associated with dentistry ), if they have heard of UOP. I think you will be surprised with the answer.

At my interviews on the east coast, the other students had no idea where Pacific was or what it was all about. I have absolutely no hopes that any random person will know where Pacific is or what it is all about. Perhaps they will because of the Ugrad campus but not the dental school.

Lol, I was at a subway station in San Fran and the police officer was pretty confident that there was "No dental school in the this city other than UCSF".

Im willing to bet that Pacifics students can cut teeth at the same level as lets say....Iowa. As a future Pacific student I dont think Ill come out THAT much better than the average dental student. Perhaps a little more cases due to the lack of specialty programs but I could get that at a GPR as well.

When it comes down to it, price is a big deal and there had better be justifications for the high price. Pacific has an emotional draw that is hard to quantify though....

 

[29DATyep]

Thanks for all the comments.

One dentist I spoke to said if they both have Sim labs and smart classrooms and the same technology then it should be a no brainer...go to the cheaper school.

Emotional pull is very hard to quantify.....🙁

I just feel that extra 180,000 in my pocket could go towards a custommade Benz 😉

 

[armorshell]

When I told people on the west coast I got an interview to Columbia they had no idea what I was talking about. Most of them though it was a community college.

Name doesn't mean too much outside of the field, and if Pacific is well respected within dentistry then who cares?

 

[johntara04]

Just a rough calculation:

Average $100,000 a year take home pay over 30+ years career= over 3mil in total earnings for a career. (probably a low estimate)

a few thousand extra bucks for a better education and to be passionate about the school that your at ain't that much in the long run. especially if its for a better clinical program where you will have better skills and be able to make more sooner. I don't know about you but i can live off of way less than 3 mil for the rest of my life and be totally happy.

First of all, you won't take home 3 mill. As a dentist, you will be close to the 50% tax bracket. Now, if you make 100,000 a year, then you will only take home 65-75,000. That is 6250 a month. Now, subtract your 2300 for loan payments (and this is over 10 years) and you now have 3950 a month. Now, let's say you bought your dental practice for 450,000. That is another 5,178 a month for that loan payment over 10 years. You now have NO money left at the end of the month. No car, no house, no food, no nothing. And you are in the hole. So, for all of you that think money is not a big deal, think again. IT IS! Look at the cold hard facts before jumping into your amazing, prestigous, expensive school.

 

[gryffindor]

If you are paying for it yourself, then yes, cost is important. johntara04 gave a good response. I just want to add that if you decide to specialize after dental school, that can often mean 2 - 3 more years taking loans and paying tuition. If you want to buy your own practice after you graduate, that is another huge loan you are looking at - $200K - $500K - who knows. The money you spend on your practice is what is going to influence your income, not the money you spent for the name of the school on your DDS diploma.

 

[dddsmack]

First of all, you won't take home 3 mill. As a dentist, you will be close to the 50% tax bracket. Now, if you make 100,000 a year, then you will only take home 65-75,000. That is 6250 a month. Now, subtract your 2300 for loan payments (and this is over 10 years) and you now have 3950 a month. Now, let's say you bought your dental practice for 450,000. That is another 5,178 a month for that loan payment over 10 years. You now have NO money left at the end of the month. No car, no house, no food, no nothing. And you are in the hole. So, for all of you that think money is not a big deal, think again. IT IS! Look at the cold hard facts before jumping into your amazing, prestigous, expensive school.

Wow, I had no idea dentist didn't make ANY money. I need to get out while I can.

 

[SugarNaCl]

an avg dentist makes 90-120,000 so i have no idea why it would take 30 years to pay off 200,000 are you guys joking? it should take mim 5 years, if u just live/ and eat u can live off 20,000 a year so do the math, 30 years is ridiculous. and in the end names of schools matter like who wants to goto some crappy school no one has heard off just to save 50,000 and not have the chance to utilize some of the best technology expensive schools have to offer.

Look into this. I'll tell you why it may be better to pay over 30 yrs. 1. Taxes and 2. Everything always increases in price. In 30 yrs when you are ready to retire, 200,000 may only have an equiv. 100,000 value...This would increase the amt of $$ you make, technically. That is why they advise to take out the longest loan possible and pay back slowly. I talked to an OS who said his total dental education cost him $30K back in the late 70s. If that is accurate, by the time we are ready to retire, dental school will cost about $500,000 to attend 😛

 

[armorshell]

First of all, you won't take home 3 mill. As a dentist, you will be close to the 50% tax bracket. Now, if you make 100,000 a year, then you will only take home 65-75,000. That is 6250 a month. Now, subtract your 2300 for loan payments (and this is over 10 years) and you now have 3950 a month. Now, let's say you bought your dental practice for 450,000. That is another 5,178 a month for that loan payment over 10 years. You now have NO money left at the end of the month. No car, no house, no food, no nothing. And you are in the hole. So, for all of you that think money is not a big deal, think again. IT IS! Look at the cold hard facts before jumping into your amazing, prestigous, expensive school.

Um, the average income for dentists who own their own practice is 180k after overhead, which includes the cost of the practice...so yeah...

 

[wizziefiend]

Um, the average income fro dentists who own their own practice is 180k after overhead, which includes the cost of the practice...so yeah...

That's true....I forgot the loan payment has tax deductible aspects. Also...loans usually buy something and those something usually break down. You get to depreciate assets that brings your taxes lower.

Either way...I won't be poor.....who cares If I won't be big bucks til I'm 40.

 

[tooth decay]

I think that money should be a factor especially when you are going to practice only general dentistry. If you are going to specialize, and you are anticipating to make more income than a general dentist, the larger loans should be easier to pay off. Of course, this rule does not include excellent in state schools such as the UC and U of Mich.

 

[dentmeister]

Should money be an issue when deciding which school to attend? Why or Why not? Is there that big of a difference amongst dental schools why one school may cost 200,000 dollars more than another?

Yes, money matters, but experience matters to get you there. Money comes from getting patients in and out the door as quickly as possible. I know a recent dental school grad fighting this right now, he feels his clinical training was inadeqaute. You shouldn't only be looking at cost of the school, but amount of clinical experience you will get to get you where you need to. It will easily be the difference between making $70,000 a year and $140,000 a year. School's I know are very good about getting plenty of clinical experience are Marquette, AZ, among others.

 

[hsama]

Yes, money matters, but experience matters to get you there. Money comes from getting patients in and out the door as quickly as possible. I know a recent dental school grad fighting this right now, he feels his clinical training was inadeqaute. You shouldn't only be looking at cost of the school, but amount of clinical experience you will get to get you where you need to. It will easily be the difference between making $70,000 a year and $140,000 a year. School's I know are very good about getting plenty of clinical experience are Marquette, AZ, among others.

Can you say what the other school was that didn't give as much experience?

 

[hsama]

Um, the average income for dentists who own their own practice is 180k after overhead, which includes the cost of the practice...so yeah...

I spoke to a dentist who ...told me he had been practicing 25 years, and said that ... About 70% of his revenue went into his overhead. QUOTE]


So...which is it? I'm not trying to be a smart-allekie-pants. I just really want to know what the difference is!

 

[in her drawer]

Money matters, indeed. But what do you guys think about 98k versus 109k? After taking a look at D's comment, I would say no. 😉 But I would appreciate any insights.

 

[29DATyep]

That's not a big difference at all...I think with that the money difference is negligible.

 

[armorshell]

I spoke to a dentist who ...told me he had been practicing 25 years, and said that ... About 70% of his revenue went into his overhead. QUOTE]


So...which is it? I'm not trying to be a smart-allekie-pants. I just really want to know what the difference is!

It's probably the same. It wouldn't be unthinkable for a dentist with that much experience to be producing 500-600k a year. Pay off the practice loans, employee salaries, pay the gov, equipment, tax lawyer, accountant, lab fees, etc... and your take home is going to be (with a 70% overhead, which seems mighty high) 150-180k

 

[hsama]

I spoke to a dentist who only does procedures on mentally handicapped pts in a hospital practice only. He told me he had been practicing 25 years, and said that his office practice was very stressful. About 70% of his revenue went into his overhead. He said that even though he does not make as much now, he enjoys this type of practice more.

His other advice is don't take up any sports which can damage your hands. He lost 6 months of practice (and income) after he injured his wrist.

Um, the average income for dentists who own their own practice is 180k after overhead, which includes the cost of the practice...so yeah...

Which is it?

 

[laelialudisia]

Yes, money matters, but experience matters to get you there. Money comes from getting patients in and out the door as quickly as possible. I know a recent dental school grad fighting this right now, he feels his clinical training was inadeqaute. You shouldn't only be looking at cost of the school, but amount of clinical experience you will get to get you where you need to. It will easily be the difference between making $70,000 a year and $140,000 a year. School's I know are very good about getting plenty of clinical experience are Marquette, AZ, among others.

this is VERY true!!! take my situation, my state schools is known for superb academic training and not so much for great clinical training, so i think it is DEFINITELY worth the extra money to go to a school where i can come out with top-notch skills b/c the amount of money you make is determined by the quantity and quality of procedures you can perform. plus, i also think a difference of 100K is worth spending to go to a school you will actually like and enjoy for 4 years rather than hating the entire experience.

 

[Turnerjo13]

this is VERY true!!! take my situation, my state schools is known for superb academic training and not so much for great clinical training, so i think it is DEFINITELY worth the extra money to go to a school where i can come out with top-notch skills b/c the amount of money you make is determined by the quantity and quality of procedures you can perform. plus, i also think a difference of 100K is worth spending to go to a school you will actually like and enjoy for 4 years rather than hating the entire experience.

My thoughts exactly!

 

[armorshell]

Eh, save your money and spend a year doing a GPR if you don't feel to competent.

 

[laelialudisia]

in my case, the difference is around 80K, maybe a little less when you factor in that the COL where my state school is would be higher than in ky. for me, the difference in experience and overall support/atmosphere for 4 of the hardest years of my life is worth the extra 80K, but it is a personal decision for each of us. you just have to weigh the pros and cons along with what your goals are after you graduate.🙂

 

[Fuji]

That is why they advise to take out the longest loan possible and pay back slowly.

Yikes. This is why Americans have such terrible debt loads.

Consider this: a $200K loan paid off over 10 years at 6% interest will cost you $2,220.41 a month. That totals $266,449.20 over the course of the loan. The extra $66K is all interest.

If you extend that same loan over 30 years, your monthly payments drop to $1,199.1 (which is nice), but your total cost over 30 years is $431,676.00! The extra 20 years will cost you an additional $165,226.8 (not adjusted for inflation). Definitely enough for a custom Benz or a Ferrari.

Your tax deduction will not off-set the additional interest that you will be paying. The only way you can come out ahead is if you invest the difference and make a return greater than your interest rate, or if you make accelerated payments and pay the loan off early.

 

[armorshell]

in my case, the difference is around 80K, maybe a little less when you factor in that the COL where my state school is would be higher than in ky. for me, the difference in experience and overall support/atmosphere for 4 of the hardest years of my life is worth the extra 80K, but it is a personal decision for each of us. you just have to weigh the pros and cons along with what your goals are after you graduate.🙂

True, I shouldn't have tried to generalize my situation 😉 Sometimes I forget that not everyone has the same opinions as me