Moonlighting during service

[D1Bound]

I'm interested to hear people's experiences with moonlighting during leave and on weekends during service. Were you at local private practices or at corporate offices? How much money were you able to earn in a month to supplement you annual officer pay? Would you recommend this to develop new skills and gain speed? Thanks

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[Big Time Hoosier]

I'm interested to hear people's experiences with moonlighting during leave and on weekends during service. Were you at local private practices or at corporate offices? How much money were you able to earn in a month to supplement you annual officer pay? Would you recommend this to develop new skills and gain speed? Thanks

You need to get permission from your Command. My friend got shot down when he asked, that’s after he had already spent $1,000 getting a dental license for the state.

Big Hoss

 

[FutureDent020]

I'm interested to hear people's experiences with moonlighting during leave and on weekends during service. Were you at local private practices or at corporate offices? How much money were you able to earn in a month to supplement you annual officer pay? Would you recommend this to develop new skills and gain speed? Thanks

I just never found it worth the hassle. Like Big Hoss said, only some commands will approve it. Then you have to make sure licensing is in order, insurance contracts are ironed out, malpractice insurance set up, using leave or weekends to actually do it. Then next thing you know orders are up and you are leaving. You can get pretty good exposure to bread and butter dentistry in the military and work on your speed as well. More complicated stuff you aren’t going to be doing just moonlighting a day a week anyways. But it can definitely bring in extra income if it’s worth it to you.

 

[FutureDent020]

And another thing for incoming military dentists. The way you maximize your income or finances in active duty is not through moonlighting. It’s through utilizing the healthcare benefits, tax breaks, insurances, and loans. Try to have your kids in the military if you can and it’s a good time for you and your spouse. Buy a house with the VA loan own it and rent it when you leave. Let someone else pay your mortgage and have it as an investment to cash in on down the road. You can use the “doctor loan” which is even a better loan when you get out as long interests rates stay this low. Utilize all the USAA insurance policies. Deploy if it’s the right time for you. I had about 6 months of non taxable 6 figure income. Do all this then get out and specialize using the GI Bill. You’ll have milked the system setting yourself up for success. Some things to think about.

 

[D1Bound]

And another thing for incoming military dentists. The way you maximize your income or finances in active duty is not through moonlighting. It’s through utilizing the healthcare benefits, tax breaks, insurances, and loans. Try to have your kids in the military if you can and it’s a good time for you and your spouse. Buy a house with the VA loan own it and rent it when you leave. Let someone else pay your mortgage and have it as an investment to cash in on down the road. You can use the “doctor loan” which is even a better loan when you get out as long interests rates stay this low. Utilize all the USAA insurance policies. Deploy if it’s the right time for you. I had about 6 months of non taxable 6 figure income. Do all this then get out and specialize using the GI Bill. You’ll have milked the system setting yourself up for success. Some things to think about.

Is there an all inclusive guide to this that you could send me? The second I step into the service I want hustling on these bennies

 

[FutureDent020]

Is there an all inclusive guide to this that you could send me? The second I step into the service I want hustling on these bennies

Lol, just gotta be smart during your time. Inquire and research. I learned in the last couple months of my service I could have used the Chase Sapphire Reserve Card with no annual fee for active duty (usually $550). It has amazing points and travel benefits. Also think for yourself because there are some dumb people in the military who are blind to these things.

 

[D1Bound]

Lol, just gotta be smart during your time. Inquire and research. I learned in the last couple months of my service I could have used the Chase Sapphire Reserve Card with no annual fee for active duty (usually $550). It has amazing points and travel benefits. Also think for yourself because there are some dumb people in the military who are blind to these things.

I'm assuming you walked into a civvie endo residency after separation and are now living the sweet life?

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

The second I step into the service I want hustling on these bennies

Don't quote me on this, but I think Big Navy has a policy that you cannot moonlight during your first year.

Big Hoss

 

[ShortShortsDad]

It will vary based on your commander and your role. With the current DHA cluster**** and many dentists being shifted to line units, PROFIS, mapped, reverse PROFISED or whatever the new buzzword is more dentists are finding themselves attached to a CASH with a commander who is not a dentist. When picking my locations this year only 2 of the 11 spots were TDA (non-CASH) roles. Some CASH roles allow moonlighting but the field time will interfere, I know for sure some of the good locations like Colorado now prohibit moonlighting altogether. This isn’t critical for many general dentists I know but for OMS it’s a 6 figure consideration.

 

[D1Bound]

It will vary based on your commander and your role. With the current DHA cluster**** and many dentists being shifted to line units, PROFIS, mapped, reverse PROFISED or whatever the new buzzword is more dentists are finding themselves attached to a CASH with a commander who is not a dentist. When picking my locations this year only 2 of the 11 spots were TDA (non-CASH) roles. Some CASH roles allow moonlighting but the field time will interfere, I know for sure some of the good locations like Colorado now prohibit moonlighting altogether. This isn’t critical for many general dentists I know but for OMS it’s a 6 figure consideration.

What is CASH?

 

[ShortShortsDad]

Combat support hospital, not a dental unit. Whenever they do field training their assigned dentists will go and sit in a tent and twiddle their thumbs over the weekend rather than spend time with their family or work private practice. I would have lost my mind with that nonsense. Complex politics caused this but is mostly a consequence of DHA

 

[FutureDent020]

I'm assuming you walked into a civvie endo residency after separation and are now living the sweet life?

I did although I put in the work. And yea, life is good on the other side. But military route is worth it. It’s tough while you are doing it but pays off.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Whenever they do field training their assigned dentists will go and sit in a tent and twiddle their thumbs over the weekend rather than spend time with their family or work private practice. I would have lost my mind with that nonsense.

Rookie. You have to learn to sneak a flat screen and Xbox into the battalion aid station.

Big Hoss

 

[D1Bound]

I did although I put in the work. And yea, life is good on the other side. But military route is worth it. It’s tough while you are doing it but pays off.

What did you do during your payback to make yourself a good applicant?

 

[Roto Picante]

I guess I am the odd man out here. I think it is a valuable experience. You quickly learn if you can be a good associate or would rather work rapidly towards ownership. I was able to immediately step into an associate to ownership gig because I had already been moonlighting at the office and had figured out it was a good fit. It is a low risk option to "shop around" to find a place that is a good fit for you. And you can do it all while having stable military income. Don't let the costs of getting a license deter you. My license/insurance was on the more expensive side ($5000+) but at $1000 daily minimum it is quickly paid for. I say go for it!

 

[D1Bound]

I guess I am the odd man out here. I think it is a valuable experience. You quickly learn if you can be a good associate or would rather work rapidly towards ownership. I was able to immediately step into an associate to ownership gig because I had already been moonlighting at the office and had figured out it was a good fit. It is a low risk option to "shop around" to find a place that is a good fit for you. And you can do it all while having stable military income. Don't let the costs of getting a license deter you. My license/insurance was on the more expensive side ($5000+) but at $1000 daily minimum it is quickly paid for. I say go for it!

1k daily? That sounds like an awesome supplement for a weekend gig

 

[Roto Picante]

1k daily? That sounds like an awesome supplement for a weekend gig

In the right market, it is possible. This is just doing bread and butter dentistry. I know this isn't possible in most places but you may get lucky and get stationed somewhere with good reimbursement rates. A way to find this out is get fee schedules for insurances in your desired markets.

 

[Roto Picante]

As a side note, moonlighting gives you the opportunity to dip your toes into civilian dentistry and rub shoulders with dentists who have made a go of it in the real world. Getting that perspective may have been the most valuable thing I got out of moonlighting. The military does a good job at making you think that there is no way to make it in life/your career without them. They make you question whether you could afford health insurance, life insurance, housing, taxes....... without them. Most if not all the dentists you work with are in the same boat you are in and have never worked civilian dentistry. Most of them just don't know how it will be in civilian life. Just take a second and realize that thousands of dentists are killing it every day without civilian benefits.

My story, I did 7 years AD with a 1 year AEGD.
Got 2 amazing base locations after residency. USAFE and PACAF. Received an assignment to another PACAF base in Feb 2020. When the assignments officer realized that I had received 3 amazing bases in a row he basically said "Yeah count on being in NM or the Mid West the rest of your career." I made the decision to separate and find a job at our current location because we loved it here. 4 weeks later the world shut down. It was a very stressful 3 months. I even asked my commander if I could stay in for a year. He declined saying we just don't have the work because we are all sitting around basically. So I pressed forward, got signed up with ADDP and continued to work at my moonlighting gig after I separated and offices opened back up. 6 months later I bought the practice and life is awesome.

My point is that there are more ways to make a career and the military route can play in a significant part in that journey. It just doesn't have to be your whole career. Military dentistry was great for our family and my career but there was a point where the cons outweighed the pros and it was time to move on.

 

[D1Bound]

As a side note, moonlighting gives you the opportunity to dip your toes into civilian dentistry and rub shoulders with dentists who have made a go of it in the real world. Getting that perspective may have been the most valuable thing I got out of moonlighting. The military does a good job at making you think that there is no way to make it in life/your career without them. They make you question whether you could afford health insurance, life insurance, housing, taxes....... without them. Most if not all the dentists you work with are in the same boat you are in and have never worked civilian dentistry. Most of them just don't know how it will be in civilian life. Just take a second and realize that thousands of dentists are killing it every day without civilian benefits.

My story, I did 7 years AD with a 1 year AEGD.
Got 2 amazing base locations after residency. USAFE and PACAF. Received an assignment to another PACAF base in Feb 2020. When the assignments officer realized that I had received 3 amazing bases in a row he basically said "Yeah count on being in NM or the Mid West the rest of your career." I made the decision to separate and find a job at our current location because we loved it here. 4 weeks later the world shut down. It was a very stressful 3 months. I even asked my commander if I could stay in for a year. He declined saying we just don't have the work because we are all sitting around basically. So I pressed forward, got signed up with ADDP and continued to work at my moonlighting gig after I separated and offices opened back up. 6 months later I bought the practice and life is awesome.

My point is that there are more ways to make a career and the military route can play in a significant part in that journey. It just doesn't have to be your whole career. Military dentistry was great for our family and my career but there was a point where the cons outweighed the pros and it was time to move on.

I think the military is a great place to start. It sounds like those that are motivated to conduct business probably wouldn't feel at home for the long term. That's crazy that people think they couldn't afford insurance and stuff like that

 

[D1Bound]

It will vary based on your commander and your role. With the current DHA cluster**** and many dentists being shifted to line units, PROFIS, mapped, reverse PROFISED or whatever the new buzzword is more dentists are finding themselves attached to a CASH with a commander who is not a dentist. When picking my locations this year only 2 of the 11 spots were TDA (non-CASH) roles. Some CASH roles allow moonlighting but the field time will interfere, I know for sure some of the good locations like Colorado now prohibit moonlighting altogether. This isn’t critical for many general dentists I know but for OMS it’s a 6 figure consideration.

If you have free weekends, who is going to stop you from from 5 hours on a saturday in your private life?

 

[SirBrotherJam]

If you have free weekends, who is going to stop you from from 5 hours on a saturday in your private life?

Let be clear on one thing here... you don't get a private life in the military. If duty calls you answer.

 

[ShortShortsDad]

If you have free weekends, who is going to stop you from from 5 hours on a saturday in your private life?

I don’t think you quite understand what you signed up for.

This is a **** around and find out situation.

Last year a case of moonlighting when not authorized resulted in suspension of privileges for over a year with the actual punishment (pay back what was paid, reduction in rank, literal jail time for disobeying an order) pending. What’s certain for that person now is that they have been reported to the national practitioners database for having their credentials pulled and they will have a difficult time finding a job anywhere that does a background check or getting credentialed with any insurance.

 

[SirBrotherJam]

I don’t think you quite understand what you signed up for.

This is a **** around and find out situation.

Last year a case of moonlighting when not authorized resulted in suspension of privileges for over a year with the actual punishment (pay back what was paid, reduction in rank, literal jail time for disobeying an order) pending. What’s certain for that person now is that they have been reported to the national practitioners database for having their credentials pulled and they will have a difficult time finding a job anywhere that does a background check or getting credentialed with any insurance.

They could join the elusive O-2 dental club!

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

They could join the elusive O-2 dental club!

Not too sure how I didn't end up there myself...

Big Hoss

 

[Roto Picante]

If you have free weekends, who is going to stop you from from 5 hours on a saturday in your private life?

The periodontist at my base was moonlighting on Saturdays with the proper permissions and paperwork. Part of the this process means that you agree to the fact that your military job comes first when there are conflicts, ALWAYS. One Sat the entire med group got recalled at 330 AM for a group wide drug test day. The Periodontist had an entire day of patients scheduled at his civilian job. That was a terrible experience for him to have to tell his other employer "Sorry I have to sit here for 11 hours while all of my other coworkers get their piss tested because someone is running a cocaine racket. Good luck covering my patients this weekend."

 

[D1Bound]

I don’t think you quite understand what you signed up for.

This is a **** around and find out situation.

Last year a case of moonlighting when not authorized resulted in suspension of privileges for over a year with the actual punishment (pay back what was paid, reduction in rank, literal jail time for disobeying an order) pending. What’s certain for that person now is that they have been reported to the national practitioners database for having their credentials pulled and they will have a difficult time finding a job anywhere that does a background check or getting credentialed with any insurance.

While I don't have the facts of that situation, that's a horrible consequence for simply working a shift on the side.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

that's a horrible consequence for simply working a shift on the side.

Welcome to the US military, where you have to be a flag officer to screw up and suffer no consequences! I mean, we literally droned an innocent family claiming they were ISIS in order distract from the disastrous Afghanistan withdrawal. Do you think anyone will be held accountable? And yet they wonder why the best and brightest leave the military...

Big Hoss

 

[LFA20]

I don’t think you quite understand what you signed up for.

This is a **** around and find out situation.

Last year a case of moonlighting when not authorized resulted in suspension of privileges for over a year with the actual punishment (pay back what was paid, reduction in rank, literal jail time for disobeying an order) pending. What’s certain for that person now is that they have been reported to the national practitioners database for having their credentials pulled and they will have a difficult time finding a job anywhere that does a background check or getting credentialed with any insurance.

Dentist? in the navy? I personally have never heard of a dentist being demoted to O-2.

 

[D1Bound]

I have permission to moonlight on the side. I have a daily rate of $750 and work two Saturdays a month from 8-1. I usually get off around 12-12:30. I enjoy it. You get treated 10x more like a doctor than anywhere in the military. You’ll find out that assistants run the military. Can’t fire them no matter how awful they are. I recommend it, not only for the experience and money but you’ll also get an idea of what dentistry outside the military is like.

I don't have a clue how the military is yet, but it would seem like if an assistant is doing a poor job, that is compromising the care for soldiers, sailors, and airmen and not fulfilling the mission, and as a result, should result in some disciplinary action. That's a really nice side gig. That's exactly what I need. That would definitely help with a mortgage and car payment.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

I don't have a clue how the military is yet

It's kind of like working for Michael Scott...but a Michael Scott with battle ships, tanks, and fighter jets at his disposal.

Big Hoss