More D.O. schools?

[ordinaryguy]

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Are you in favor of more D.O. schools opening? I think it?s a positive thing because if there are more osteopathic medical schools, more people will become aware of osteopathic medicine. But I do think that the quality of education should be maintained and monitored by AACOM. What do you think?

 

[VentdependenT]

Pitiful idea. The osteopathic profession is acutally losing residency programs, this contradicts the increase in osteopathic school numbers. What are these folks thinking (about their wallets of course)? If they are going to keep cranking out schools without increasing the quality and quantity of osteopathic residency programs then on I think these schools should no longer focus on primary care education. They should let students do tons of electives and drop the 3 months of family medicine jazz. Why? Because you are forced into allo match so its best to have rotated at some big name places for letters and face recognition.

 

[crazy250]

I think it's got positives and negatives. You already mentioned the positive. One potential negative is that the medical profession will become less competitive, leading to a decline in the profession's prestige. It's like the nobel award. If they give it to more people, then the prize will not be as valuable. Same thing with medical school. If any one can get in, then the physicians' salaries may decrease and people may not respect them as much. Think about it...all the high paying jobs are done by only a minority of people (i.e. athletes, actors & actresses, music stars, CEO's, etc.)

 

[Buster Douglas]

Originally posted by ordinaryguy
...But I do think that the quality of education should be maintained and monitored by AACOM.

COMLEX...

 

[Adapt]

I think it's a good idea as long as the schools become accredited. It allows more people to know about DOs.

 

[VentdependenT]

Originally posted by crazy250
I think it's got positives and negatives. You already mentioned the positive. One potential negative is that the medical profession will become less competitive, leading to a decline in the profession's prestige. It's like the nobel award. If they give it to more people, then the prize will not be as valuable. Same thing with medical school. If any one can get in, then the physicians' salaries may decrease and people may not respect them as much. Think about it...all the high paying jobs are done by only a minority of people (i.e. athletes, actors & actresses, music stars, CEO's, etc.)

It really isn't about watering down the average applicant or letting things slide just to fill a school's seats. The new schools aren't going to take idiots. The demand to become a physician is increasing, why I don't know, and every year quality candidates do not get into medical school.

Don't forget you still have to get a residency and the more competitive students, be it MD or DO, will land those competitive spots. The poorer candidates potentially will end up at residencies you would be scared to work at. I become physically ill when I think of some of these places. No guarantee that just because you graduate from medical school that you will end up landing a quality residency position. From a financial stand point there is a s****load of cash to be tapped out of eager students. Watch out for my osteopathic school to open up in 15 years. I don't even need to have an affiliated hospital, I can just provide my students with preceptors to shadow.

 

[DoctorDoogie4]

I agree that osteopathic medical schools should not be allowed to expand without working on establishing good osteopathic residencies. As forementioned, we are losing a lot of D.Os to the M.D. match...I think the AOA needs some huge reform and start working on improving the establishment of Osteopathic Medicine rather than working on its image....damn AOA

 

[wholehealth]

I agree that some of the schools are going a little overboard, but how could any of us deny that institutions like VCOM are only going to help us. They are affiliated with a big name school, and seem to have more than enough affiliated hospitals considering they only have one class right now. When I visited VCOM, they made us aware that they were sparing no expense to make their school one of the top institutions. VCOM is only the second medical school in the whole state of Virginia, and there is a need for physicians in the region. I think it just depends on where the new schools decide to go. All of the urban areas are spilling over with physicians, but the more underserved, not even necessarily rural areas, still need good docs. VCOM seems set on holding true to osteopathic philosophy, so, maybe not all of the schools are a bad idea...let's all keep an open mind, and just do our own personal best, and there should be no problems finding enough residencies to go around....if anything shouldn't we be more worried about the off shore med schools who truly let ANYONE who has money in? I am personally excited about the prospect of going to VCOM and am so glad they decided to build that school....just my .02

 

[luckystar]

Originally posted by wholehealth
let's all keep an open mind, and just do our own personal best, and there should be no problems finding enough residencies to go around....

But there are problems, especially if you don't want to end up doing something that you did not choose because there weren't enough spots in the field that you would rather pursue. I agree that rural areas are underserved, and so are many inner-city areas, but merely increasing the number of schools is not going to help if there aren't enough post-graduate training positions.

Sure, some DO schools can say that they emphasize training primary care physicians, but that certainly does not mean that many of their students will not follow the trend to subspecialize. We can't expect all DO students to eventually become primary care providers, so opening more schools does not necessarily mean a direct relief for all underserved areas.

 

[freesolo]

is there a new school? Or just discussing the possibilites of having another one?

 

[fabiolablake]

Just discussing the possibility of adding more schools. I don't believe there are plans for anymore.

Blake

 

[BadVB750]

Actually VCOM is the 4th medical school in VA, there is EVMS, UVA and MCV. Also, I don't feel that an increase in osteopathic schools will water down the field of medicine. An increase in osteopathic graduates will just make it harder for IMG's to can residency in the states, becuase for so long they have been milking the excess allopathic residency slots.

 

[Teufelhunden]

Originally posted by VentdependenT
Pitiful idea. The osteopathic profession is acutally losing residency programs, this contradicts the increase in osteopathic school numbers. What are these folks thinking (about their wallets of course)? If they are going to keep cranking out schools without increasing the quality and quantity of osteopathic residency programs then on I think these schools should no longer focus on primary care education.

There are plenty of ACGME residency spots to compensate for more DO grads. What would likely happen, is that DOs would start displacing FMG/IMGs from these spots.

Anyway, like I said, there are more than enough ACGME spots to go around.

 

[Teufelhunden]

Originally posted by BadVB750
An increase in osteopathic graduates will just make it harder for IMG's to can residency in the states

And your point is?

 

[KUMC_MD]

Originally posted by BadVB750
Actually VCOM is the 4th medical school in VA, there is EVMS, UVA and MCV. Also, I don't feel that an increase in osteopathic schools will water down the field of medicine. An increase in osteopathic graduates will just make it harder for IMG's to can residency in the states, becuase for so long they have been milking the excess allopathic residency slots.

there are six medical schools in missouri.... the osteopathic school is the largest....

 

[Echinoidea]

On one hand, I would love to see more DO schools open, mainly to raise the public profile of osteopathic medicine and to increase the ratio of osteopathic to allopathic physicians. But on the other hand, the residency situation concerns me.

I know I'm new to the whole 'world of Osteopathy' (just got accepted) but the impression I have been getting so far is that the AOA is very stubborn about making changes to the staus quo. In the future, I'd like to see more integration with allopathic medicine, (such as the AMA) more awareness campaigns about the DO degree, and an overhaul of the residency situation.

In the long run, I think it will become much harder for an IMG to secure a residency in the U.S. They probably have the most to lose from an increase in DO schools.

 

[wholehealth]

Originally posted by BadVB750
Actually VCOM is the 4th medical school in VA, there is EVMS, UVA and MCV.

My bad, I guess I got a little carried away, however, back to luckystar, you are right that the D.O.'s may be forced to take residencies they do not want, but someone has to take care of those individuals who are underserved and unfortunately some of us may have to put in a little time, but isn't that understood when we are accepted into osteopathic school? After residency we can all make a decision as to where we will spend our lives. I guess to me all of this schooling is just jumping through hoops to achieve the goal of becoming a physician.

 

[Buster Douglas]

Originally posted by luckystar
I agree that rural areas are underserved, and so are many inner-city areas, but merely increasing the number of schools is not going to help if there aren't enough post-graduate training positions.

Most DO schools have in their mission statements that they exist in order to produce and place doctors where doctors are needed. If Primary Care MD and DO residency slots are going grossly unfilled every year then it seems to me increasing the number of schools is only going to help solve the problem.

Yes, it sucks that this will only make the more competitive specialties even more competitive, but what's the use in churning out more millionaire super specialized neurosurgeons if people can't even find a doctor within 2-3 hours to look at a sore throat?

 

[luckystar]

Originally posted by Buster Douglas
Yes, it sucks that this will only make the more competitive specialties even more competitive, but what's the use in churning out more millionaire super specialized neurosurgeons if people can't even find a doctor within 2-3 hours to look at a sore throat?

That's my point, that yes, some DO schools would like to maintain a primary care focus, but they ultimately cannot control what their students end up doing. We don't sign a contract saying that we will provide underserved areas with primary care. Many people change their minds during the course of med school, and some even do so during residency and afterwards.

Basically, opening more medical schools of any sort is not going make primary care or rural medicine more lucrative. There are other ways to do that.

 

[Buster Douglas]

Originally posted by luckystar
Basically, opening more medical schools of any sort is not going make primary care or rural medicine more lucrative.

I'm just saying that opening up more schools, MD or DO, will force more people into primary care.

Good for the public.

Good for the AOA.

Good or bad for the student.

 

[luckystar]

Originally posted by Buster Douglas
I'm just saying that opening up more schools, MD or DO, will force more people into primary care.

Good for the public.

Good for the AOA.

Good or bad for the student.

Yeah, I agree.

 

[DireWolf]

How is "forcing" people into primary care a good thing? You would see med school applications plummet even further.

 

[Buster Douglas]

Originally posted by DireWolf
You would see med school applications plummet even further.

This world gets a few more primary care physicians and all you're concerned about is how many people are applying to med school...

Seriously, if you're implying the quality of healthcare will go down because the avg. gpa of applicants goes down by .07, just think of the nutload of hoops we've gotta jump through to prove ourselves.

 

[luckystar]

Originally posted by DireWolf
How is "forcing" people into primary care a good thing? You would see med school applications plummet even further.

I agreed with Buster Douglas because I saw his use of the word "forcing" in the context of, if people don't match in the specialty of their choice, and there are openings in primary care fields, many will take what is available. They still have a choice whether to take it or leave it.

 

[coreyb]

I'd like to see more medical schools (osteopathic or allopathic) in the pacific northwest. I keep reading that many states have multiple schools...meanwhile we've got UW and OHSU. No schools in Alaska, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming?, probably a couple I'm missing...

Anyhow, being a resident of Washington I feel a bit put out... (yes I'm just pouting).

🙁

 

[texdrake]

It will stay that way too.... None of those states have large enough populations to support a medical school and I believe all three of them have agreements with neighboring states for their residents.

 

[fabiolablake]

Originally posted by coreyb
I'd like to see more medical schools (osteopathic or allopathic) in the pacific northwest. I keep reading that many states have multiple schools...meanwhile we've got UW and OHSU. No schools in Alaska, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming?, probably a couple I'm missing...

Anyhow, being a resident of Washington I feel a bit put out... (yes I'm just pouting).

🙁

We do have an agreement with several states through the WICHE program. The problem with Oregon is that our economy is so poor that we have been suspended from that program for a few years. OHSU has a specific quota of Oregon residents to fill their spots, designated by the state legislature, but then they begin filling all of their other spots with out-of-state residents because it provides them with more money. Texdrake is right, these states aren't large enough to support another medical school and it would be a large investment to start one up.

Blake

 

[tkim]

Originally posted by coreyb
I'd like to see more medical schools (osteopathic or allopathic) in the pacific northwest. I keep reading that many states have multiple schools...meanwhile we've got UW and OHSU. No schools in Alaska, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming?, probably a couple I'm missing...

Anyhow, being a resident of Washington I feel a bit put out... (yes I'm just pouting).

🙁

Western just started the 'Northwest 30' program:

http://www.westernu.edu/xp/edu/admissions/northwest.xml

What is the Northwest Track?
In response to numerous calls from physician groups, physician recruiters, and hospitals in the northwestern part of the United States seeking to hire graduates from our residency programs, the College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific (COMP) has created a unique track for 30 highly qualified students per year who are permanent residents or attend college in Alaska, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, Washington or Wyoming. We believe by working collaboratively with undergraduate institutions, hospitals, physicians, and graduate medical education (GME) programs in the northwest, COMP can help meet the special needs of these communities by helping to train physicians who are both excellent clinicians and dedicated caregivers. Candidates must commit to participate in clinical clerkships in Alaska, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, Washington or Wyoming.

How Does it Work?
Once accepted into the WesternU/COMP Northwest Track, students will complete their first two years of study at COMP in Pomona, California. The required third and fourth year clinical rotations, excluding elective clerkship experiences which can be taken anywhere, will be completed in WesternU/COMP affiliated hospitals in Alaska, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, Washington or Wyoming. It is expected that many of the WesternU/COMP Northwest Track students will apply for and be accepted to post graduate residencies in the Northwest.

---

Don't know if this starts next year - sounds like it.

 

[Adapt]

Originally posted by tkim6599
Don't know if this starts next year - sounds like it.

It does start next year. I think it is a good program but I am a bit worried because it increases the student count to about 200. More students almost always means a higher faculty/student ratio and less attention for students.

 

[kpax18]

Originally posted by Slickness
It does start next year. I think it is a good program but I am a bit worried because it increases the student count to about 200. More students almost always means a higher faculty/student ratio and less attention for students.

they did inform us that they are planning to hire a lot more faculty members when the northwest track starts

 

[Adapt]

Originally posted by kpax18
they did inform us that they are planning to hire a lot more faculty members when the northwest track starts

Oh ok. Well that's good to know.

 

[stomper627]

I agree with coreyb....
and actually the state of washington does infact have the population to support not only 1 school but 2. Do some population:med. schools to support your claims texdrake....

http://archives.seattletimes.nwsour...ortex/display?slug=medschool25m&date=20031026

This would be a prime area for DOs. There are not many in the UW rich northwest....why not create a school in an area that is need for one (not to mention rural....which is the DO motto)....instead of building more in the east?
stomper