Morehouse discrepancy--please clarify

[Shredder]

Morehouse School of Medicine (MSM) is a historically black institution established to recruit and train minority and other students as physicians, biomedical scientists, and public health practitioners who are committed to the primary healthcare needs of the underserved. It was established as a two-year educational program in the basic sciences in April 1975 as The School of Medicine at Morehouse College.

The School has a unique history. In 1973, Morehouse College received a federal grant to conduct a feasibility study. The study focused on the development of a two-year program to train students for careers as primary care physicians who would work in medically underserved areas. The study revealed the severe shortage of African- American and other minority physicians in the United States, and particularly in Georgia. In addition, the study highlighted a general shortage of physicians for rural areas and the inner cities of the nation.

can anyone explain this? Flameshield: ON--just asking a factually based question

sorry if the pics look doctored--i assure you theyre not, but the pdf scan was too large to upload so i had to crop it in paint. the pages were obtained from U.S. News Ultimate Guide To Medical Schools

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[fpr85]

The pics appear as broken images.

 

[Shredder]

sigh...working on it. where are servers when you need them. ok--switched, ill see if it lasts

 

[DrBowtie]

Hmm I guess they aren't sticking to their mission statement too well.

 

[tank you]

ur very observant arent u, thats good
i dont know the answer though, seems like a fair question to ask

 

[Shredder]

Hmm I guess they aren't sticking to their mission statement too well.

yeah, thats putting it lightly unless theres some missing element. i cant believe a place can get away with this, a school nonetheless and a relatively respected one. my jaw dropped

ur very observant arent u, thats good
i dont know the answer though, seems like a fair question to ask

it would be different if its rankings werent so extreme in these areas, but i couldnt help but notice

 

[DrBowtie]

BTW for pointing it out.
I would like to know.

 

[MollyMalone]

I know nothing about Morehouse but I did notice that everything you cited was from the 1970's (you didn't bold that part). Apparently the school's focus has shifted over the last 30 years, a fact I find unsurprising. What's the big deal?

 

[Sooz]

I know nothing about Morehouse but I did notice that everything you cited was from the 1970's (you didn't bold that part). Apparently the school's focus has shifted over the last 30 years, a fact I find unsurprising. What's the big deal?

Huh, I see nothing that was cited from the '70s, only refrence to the '70s. Could you elaborate please, thanks

Regardless, I think it just goes to the point that we need more Primary Care docs

 

[jackets5]

Does Morehouse and Howard except, majority applicants or do they soley accept minority applicants. Was thinking of putting an application into them next year if i have to reapply. also, does anyone know how they match and perform on the USMLE

 

[Tallulah]

When I interviewed there last year, the number of people who went into primary care was closer to 70 percent (i'd even venture to say 80 if my memory serves me). Also, most stayed in state. I guess those numbers are really old
oh, and their USMLE scores, I don't remember the scores that they told me last year, but their pass rate was 98%

 

[NapeSpikes]

I think the % primary care specialties is a typo by U.S. News. Cross-reference it with the current MSAR, which shows Morehouse to have 62% primary care for residency choices. I don't know about the % staying in Georgia, though. Either way, interesting find.

 

[Shredder]

I know nothing about Morehouse but I did notice that everything you cited was from the 1970's (you didn't bold that part). Apparently the school's focus has shifted over the last 30 years, a fact I find unsurprising. What's the big deal?

Mission Statement
The Morehouse School of Medicine is a historically black institution established to recruit and train minority and other students as physicians, biomedical scientists, and public healthcare professionals committed to the primary healthcare needs of the underserved.

i find it pretty surprising that its the schools mission statement and that the school was founded on those principles. yours is not a compelling defense

if its some kind of typo i could understand. but i would think there might be a big deal made out of it, considering how at odds it is with the schools mission and how it might affect some ppls perceptions

 

[MollyMalone]

Huh, I see nothing that was cited from the '70s, only refrence to the '70s. Could you elaborate please, thanks

Well, you are correct that the quotes weren't written in the '70s, (sorry for my imprecise language) but the study referred to was from 1973 and the first paragraph talks about why the school was founded in 1975. My point is simply that a school's mission can change over time, and just because it was established to do one thing doesn't mean that it needs to do that thing forever. Maybe Morehouse's current mission is to train PCPs for Georgia, in which case they are failing miserably. But the bolded text is hardly proof of that.

ETA: Hey, Shredder, I'm not trying to defend Morehouse... like I said, I don't know anything about them. I just think that your case could be improved.

 

[Sooz]

Well, you are correct that the quotes weren't written in the '70s, (sorry for my imprecise language) but the study referred to was from 1973 and the first paragraph talks about why the school was founded in 1975. My point is simply that a school's mission can change over time, and just because it was established to do one thing doesn't mean that it needs to do that thing forever. Maybe Morehouse's current mission is to train PCPs for Georgia, in which case they are failing miserably. But the bolded text is hardly proof of that.

ETA: Hey, Shredder, I'm not trying to defend Morehouse... like I said, I don't know anything about them. I just think that your case could be improved.

NP, thanks for explaining to me what you meant, I thought I was missing something here Like perhaps an image or something, I know up there it said that some were broken or something. Anyway, thanks for the reply

 

[Flopotomist]

How is primary care specialty defined here? I ask because some schools report OB/gyn and peds in primary care, and others do not.

 

[tank you]

either way, i dont think Shredder is applying there, just causing havoc

 

[riceman04]

Does Morehouse and Howard except, majority applicants or do they soley accept minority applicants. Was thinking of putting an application into them next year if i have to reapply. also, does anyone know how they match and perform on the USMLE

ANYONE can apply...My dad's old ex-medical assistant attended Howard Medical...she said there were 30-40 non-URM's in her class.

 

[Shredder]

either way, i dont think Shredder is applying there, just causing havoc

im not applying but this is something that stood out when i saw it, and i wanted to share and discuss it. havoc--eh, if it were another school nobody would raise any fuss. it just so happened coincidentally to be this one. darkside i see what you mean and i thought about your point momentarily before posting anything--i think the facts as they stand are strong though

 

[wannagraduate]

I think by "primary care" they mean non-specializing. I just interviewed there, and I stayed with a student host. She said that most people actually do not do primary care, but the focus in TRAINING is on primary care. So, like, they really care about preparing the students for patient interactions, etc. It's actually a really nice program. They have a history of being tops in primary care, but the trend is definitely changing (changed), as a few others speculated. And in terms of the URM question, the class is really really small - only 52 - and the racial breakdown was about 50% African-American and 50% "other", which includes African, White, East Asian, etc.

Maybe that helps a bit...

 

[Shredder]

She said that most people actually do not do primary care, but the focus in TRAINING is on primary care. So, like, they really care about preparing the students for patient interactions, etc.

i think thats BS reasoning by her and that the mission statement is blatantly incongruous with reality, if the stats are correct. its outrageous in my opinion

 

[Orth2006]

Does Morehouse and Howard except, majority applicants or do they soley accept minority applicants. Was thinking of putting an application into them next year if i have to reapply. also, does anyone know how they match and perform on the USMLE

Yes they accept anyone. I interviewed there 3rd week of October and saw some diversity. However since the class size is so much smaller than most schools it immediately strikes you that it is predominantly African American.

 

[wannagraduate]

I'm just curious as to why are you so concerned. Because the program is really nice, regardless of how misleading the stats may be. Their board pass rate is amazing. It's a great location. The students are WELL prepared when it comes to treating patients. And if you want a lot of patient experience, especially with the underserved population, it's a great place to be. At least now you know the stats or whatever are screwed, but it doesn't take away from the fact that it seems to be a great program. My host was just being honest. I wouldn't call it "BS reasoning".

 

[Shredder]

I'm just curious as to why are you so concerned. Because the program is really nice, regardless of how misleading the stats may be. Their board pass rate is amazing. It's a great location. The students are WELL prepared when it comes to treating patients. And if you want a lot of patient experience, especially with the underserved population, it's a great place to be. At least now you know the stats or whatever are screwed, but it doesn't take away from the fact that it seems to be a great program. My host was just being honest. I wouldn't call it "BS reasoning".

its concerning because i expect med schools or any type of schools, and companies as well, to abide by their mission statements or at least try. regardless of the other merits an entity or person has, you shouldnt say youre going to do X and then do Y, its just misleading and frankly dishonest. wall street would be up in arms if microsoft or google decided to start changing its approach to making cheap, generic software bundles. its not what the company has stated it stands for, even if it does a great job of that

it is BS reasoning. if anybody took a look at the mission statement and homepage of the school, he would predict a high rate of primary care docs, which appears to be grossly at odds with reality. +i think by primary care everybody means non-specializing, except your host? if the trend is changing/changed, the schools publicly touted tenets should be updated accordingly.

 

[BaylorGuy]

its concerning because i expect med schools or any type of schools, and companies as well, to abide by their mission statements or at least try. regardless of the other merits an entity or person has, you shouldnt say youre going to do X and then do Y, its just misleading and frankly dishonest. wall street would be up in arms if microsoft or google decided to start changing its approach to making cheap, generic software bundles. its not what the company has stated it stands for, even if it does a great job of that

it is BS reasoning. if anybody took a look at the mission statement and homepage of the school, he would predict a high rate of primary care docs, which appears to be grossly at odds with reality. +i think by primary care everybody means non-specializing, except your host? if the trend is changing/changed, the schools publicly touted tenets should be updated accordingly.

Well, a way to look at it is that even though Morehouse is still graduating fine doctors, they aren't following their mission statement. However, they may still be trying to fulfill their mission statement. There are a lot of schools and businesses that have mission statements but nonetheless cannot seem to accomplish what their mission sets forth. For all we know, since we are not students there, they may be trying to teach their students in a way that hopefully persuades them to take primary care over specializing and staying instate versus leaving. If the numbers are opposite to this, which they are, then the school is failing at its mission statement.

I wouldn't necessarily call them hypocritical or a bad institution (considering their graduates are still qualified doctors like the rest of us will hopefully be), I just think that they probably need to change their attitude towards teaching/administration and get more towards their mission statement...or change it.

by the way, nice post shredder

 

[Shredder]

Well, a way to look at it is that even though Morehouse is still graduating fine doctors, they aren't following their mission statement. However, they may still be trying to fulfill their mission statement. There are a lot of schools and businesses that have mission statements but nonetheless cannot seem to accomplish what their mission sets forth. For all we know, since we are not students there, they may be trying to teach their students in a way that hopefully persuades them to take primary care over specializing and staying instate versus leaving. If the numbers are opposite to this, which they are, then the school is failing at its mission statement.

I wouldn't necessarily call them hypocritical or a bad institution (considering their graduates are still qualified doctors like the rest of us will hopefully be), I just think that they probably need to change their attitude towards teaching/administration and get more towards their mission statement...or change it.

by the way, nice post shredder

i could understand if a schools mission statement said the school would do its best to churn out specialists, and then the school struggled to fulfill that. after all, specialties are more competitive than primary care. even then, i wouldnt expect it to be first place on percentage of docs going into primary care, which is the equivalent of this situation with morehouse. that would obviously be a huge failure on the schools part. in fact morehouse's failure is even worse, since its preaching about producing primary care docs while placing last in actually fulfilling its vow. its right down there with columbia and washu, which is a feat were it not for the hypocritical primary care claims. also overlooked is the fact that the mission statement mentions georgia's needs specifically, while morehouse grads are near last on accepting in state residencies. i wouldnt have brought any of this up if the numbers were slightly different from the expected, but they are egregiously different

 

[MarzMD]

Someone needs to find an up to date match list. Shredder has brought up a good point, but a match list would prove it either way.

 

[DrBowtie]

It wouldn't be a big deal if they were middle of the pack or even around the bottom 25%. They are DEAD LAST. If it is a typo that is understandable, but if not changes need to be put in place to try to realign the numbers with the mission statement.

 

[CerealBox]

It wouldn't be a big deal if they were middle of the pack or even around the bottom 25%. They are DEAD LAST. If it is a typo that is understandable, but if not changes need to be put in place to try to realign the numbers with the mission statement.

or maybe they need to rewrite mission statement to be more in line with the outcomes

 

[Shredder]

or maybe they need to rewrite mission statement to be more in line with the outcomes

hmm, interesting update, the morehouse fact sheet lists different, more appropriate data for primary care/underserved under the Alumni section. in which case, i dont know who to call into question--is US News not as almighty as premeds like to think? i wonder if i should get in touch with them about it

nice donation icon brett finally gave in (or maybe it was a while ago but i didnt notice). i dont know what the benefits are, i only wear it as a status symbol, an sdn rolex ha. plus it was back when i worked and could spend frivolously

 

[DrBowtie]

hmm, interesting update, the morehouse fact sheet lists different, more appropriate data for primary care/underserved under the Alumni section. in which case, i dont know who to call into question--is US News not as almighty as premeds like to think? i wonder if i should get in touch with them about it

nice donation icon brett finally gave in (or maybe it was a while ago but i didnt notice). i dont know what the benefits are, i only wear it as a status symbol, an sdn rolex ha. plus it was back when i worked and could spend frivolously

Haha. I scaped together a few bucks to be a donor. I spend enough time on here it seemed like I needed to.