Most Important Aspects of getting an interview???

[Goofy Goober]

What are the most important parts of ones application when considering getting an interview? (LORs, PS, extracurriculars, GPA, MCAT, secondaries)

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[deleted1037524]

All of the above, dude

 

[yokiguz]

What are the most important parts of ones application when considering getting an interview? (LORs, PS, extracurriculars, GPA, MCAT, secondaries)

They're all important. Are you looking for a ranking? A major issue in anything you've listed can tank an app.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

What are the most important parts of ones application when considering getting an interview? (LORs, PS, extracurriculars, GPA, MCAT, secondaries)

All those plus your ethnicity, SES and home state.

 

[gyngyn]

LOE's are usually useless, but the rare bad one can sink you.
PS's are most often neutral, but a bad one can sink you.
Failing to follow instructions (MSAR) can sink you.

Avoiding missteps is key. I have already seen a boatload of re-applicants with 99th percentile stats this cycle.

 

[Talldoctor96]

Think about it like we’re grading your app with a rubric. Each of those sections gets points. If u have more points you pass the total score interview threshold and go in the queue for interview. So they’re all importsnt

 

[deleted1108964]

Failing to follow instructions (MSAR) can sink you.

Avoid missteps is key. I have already seen a boatload of re-applicants with 99th percentile stats this cycle.

Wait what exactly does this mean? Now you got me worried!

 

[KnightDoc]

LOE's are usually useless, but the rare bad one can sink you.
PS's are most often neutral, but a bad one can sink you.
Failing to follow instructions (MSAR) can sink you.

Avoid missteps is key. I have already seen a boatload of re-applicants with 99th percentile stats this cycle.

This is scary (at least for high performers ). Just a few short years ago, this was rare, and was anecdotally attributed to overly optimistic school lists, obvious red flags, or antisocial interview behavior.

A boatload would represent a significant change. Can this really be explained by a significant uptick in failing to avoid missteps, or is something else going on, such as an increased effort to diversify, making stats less important, rankings notwithstanding? Or is grade inflation (or online cheating) after the onset of the pandemic now so rampant that 25% of applicants now have 99%-ile stats?

 

[gyngyn]

Can this really be explained by a significant uptick in failing to avoid missteps, or is something else going on, such as an increased effort to diversify making stats less important, rankings notwithstanding?

It could also be a sampling bias. The first applications could be high stats re-applicants who expanded their list to include us!

 

[gyngyn]

Wait what exactly does this mean? Now you got me worried!

Simple things like following LoE instructions (number and type) show if the applicant has any interest in the school.
Blasting out the same 10 letters everywhere doesn't.

 

[KnightDoc]

It could also be a sampling bias. The first applications could be high stats re-applicants who expanded their list to include us!

But if they didn't apply to you previously, they aren't reapplicants, are they?

 

[gyngyn]

But if they didn't apply to you previously, they aren't reapplicants, are they?

They often bring it up to explain a gap year.

 

[KnightDoc]

They often bring it up to explain a gap year.

We're barely a few weeks in, and I'm already nauseous.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

and having a coherent, concise, and perhaps compelling narrative showing a strong pattern of motivation, commitment and achievement across Work & Activities, Personal Statement, and Secondaries goes a long way

Strongly concur, applying to medical school is in many ways a negative process where at least 80% at applications at each school must be eliminated from consideration pre-interview, so therefore risk management is so important

In addition don't focus on number of hours for ECs. If you are not articulate about activities, 1000s of hours are useless.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

The standard joke for adcom here is the student claim they can walk on water, they might be evaluated as "applicant cant swim"

Be creative but not too creative?

 

[gyngyn]

Be creative but not too creative?

An authentic narrative spoken in one's own voice is so much better that the long, twisted polysyllabic treatises I've been reading.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

The secret of success is sincerity. Once you can fake that you've got it made.

Unfortunately I have seen enough people having success with creativity but I am also a believer in karma and won't advocate for it.

 

[deleted1037524]

@gyngyn @gonnif could you please share some particularly asinine/insincere narratives you or colleagues have read during your careers? I'm curious what the extremes are (maybe should start a thread about it).

edit: like Mbuto, pass me another baby vibes

 

[deleted1025488]

@gyngyn @gonnif could you please share some particularly asinine/insincere narratives you or colleagues have read during your careers? I'm curious what the extremes are (maybe should start a thread about it).

edit: like Mbuto, pass me another baby vibes

I'm no AO but I've read some....drastic....PS's on reddit swap where people literally act like God after spending 1-year helping minorities. Those were quite difficult to read. Like I can't even imagine how you could possibly write that without being intentionally cringe and out of touch. Some were borderline racist.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

edit: like Mbuto, pass me another baby vibes

that's hilarious

 

[deleted936268]

LOE's are usually useless, but the rare bad one can sink you.

Really? When talking to my PI who serves on the adcom at a t20, she stressed that LORs are among one of the highest things considered along with GPA and MCAT. Maybe it's different for MSTP though (that's where her adcom experience lies)?

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Really? When talking to my PI who serves on the adcom at a t20, she stressed that LORs are among one of the highest things considered along with GPA and MCAT. Maybe it's different for MSTP though (that's where her adcom experience lies)?

I think at research focused schools they make a difference. My kid was told by couple of interviewers that his LORs are very strong.

 

[deleted1108964]

Really? When talking to my PI who serves on the adcom at a t20, she stressed that LORs are among one of the highest things considered along with GPA and MCAT. Maybe it's different for MSTP though (that's where her adcom experience lies)?

MSTPs are different. You're applying to a PhD program and are expected, especially at the top dogs, to have high output, capability, and ability to do independent work in said field. PIs/readers will actually scrutinize your application to see if your reserach is 'true' per se, instead of just third wheeling a generous lab where you got a lot of pubs. This is why picking a good PI is so vital. Sometimes even if you have high output at a mass production lab in undergrad, you'll be in a tough spot compared to those who worked at smaller labs, achieved less, but have an extremely strong and friendly LoR from a PI that actually knows you.

MSTPs are investing 500k into each student. They want to make sure they're good researchers and will actually ask you about your research (by someone who knows what they are talking about in the respective graduate division) during your interview. MDs care a lot less.

 

[gyngyn]

Really? When talking to my PI who serves on the adcom at a t20, she stressed that LORs are among one of the highest things considered along with GPA and MCAT. Maybe it's different for MSTP though (that's where her adcom experience lies)?

Letters become very important in the ERAS application and for an MSTP application.
For regular MD, they are mostly a necessary nuisance.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Letters become very important in the ERAS application and for an MSTP application.
For regular MD, they are mostly a necessary nuisance.

Even at T5 research powerhouses?

 

[gyngyn]

Even at T5 research powerhouses?

That's right.
There are uncommon circumstances in which a school might be looking for a particular type of strong letter (think Carle for an engineering LOE or Loma Linda for a religious letter).

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

That's right.
There are uncommon circumstances in which a school might be looking for a particular type of strong letter (think Carle for an engineering LOE or Loma Linda for a religious letter).

Interesting, I thought LORs are the differentiators for my kid's success at top schools.

 

[Zuggelder]

Interesting, I thought LORs are the differentiators for my kid's success at top schools.

Almost EVERY applicant who made it to the interview round at top schools has flattering/strong letters. Most letters are strong, otherwise they wouldn't have made it to the interview (this is also applicable at most schools, not just the top ones). So, how can one tell the difference between one flattering letter of an applicant and a letter of another? It would be maddening to try to do so for an entire cohort of interviewees.

I think an adcom has better things to discuss than which letter is slightly stronger.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Almost EVERY applicant who made it to the interview round at top schools has flattering/strong letters. Most letters are strong, otherwise they wouldn't have made it to the interview (this is also applicable at most schools, not just the top ones). So, how can one tell the difference between one flattering letter of an applicant and a letter of another? It would be maddening to try to do so for an entire cohort of interviewees.

I think an adcom has better things to discuss than which letter is slightly stronger.

OP's question is about getting interviews not acceptances. Very strong letters or PSs catch the attention otherwise won't make much difference is what you hear repeatedly. When interviewers from multiple schools tell you that your LORs are very strong you believe that they made a difference

 

[Zuggelder]

OP's question is about getting interviews not acceptances. Very strong letters or PSs catch the attention otherwise won't make much difference is what you hear repeatedly. When interviewers from multiple schools tell you that your LORs are very strong you believe that they made a difference

OK, believe!

But do you know how many other applicants your kid's interviewers also said had strong letters? Do you know their outcomes? To play devil's advocate, how can you believe that something made a difference if you didn't see the whole process play out? You seem to have hindsight bias...

BTW, it's pretty common for interviewers to compliment applicants. It's best to ignore those compliments and stay objective.

 

[deleted1108964]

OP's question is about getting interviews not acceptances. Very strong letters or PSs catch the attention otherwise won't make much difference is what you hear repeatedly. When interviewers from multiple schools tell you that your LORs are very strong you believe that they made a difference

I really think this depends on the school. I wouldn't be surprised if NYU didn't even look at LoRs or PS's before sending IIs (at least the first batch) and instead just made sure you had good research and the obligatory 522+/3.9+, lol.

As an applicant from a ivy near NYC sending a lot of people to NYU, I can tell you that a lot of people who are clearly going to be denied post-interview (or if someone just read their apps) have gotten IIs at NYU and other stat loving schools.

I think this is largely a reason why some people get into a few of the stat schools then fail to get IIs at other more holistic schools, from top to mid.

 

[Goro]

Almost EVERY applicant who made it to the interview round at top schools has flattering/strong letters. Most letters are strong, otherwise they wouldn't have made it to the interview (this is also applicable at most schools, not just the top ones). So, how can one tell the difference between one flattering letter of an applicant and a letter of another? It would be maddening to try to do so for an entire cohort of interviewees.

I think an adcom has better things to discuss than which letter is slightly stronger.

They all gel. Occasionally a cluster of good LORs make me note "Great LORs"
That's as far as it goes.

 

[Goro]

BTW, it's pretty common for interviewers to compliment applicants. It's best to ignore those compliments and stay objective.

Can confirm. We're trained to be polite. There are also plenty of situations where an individual interviewer really likes a candidate, but the candidate does not make it past the entire admissions committee

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

OK, believe!

But do you know how many other applicants your kid's interviewers also said had strong letters? Do you know their outcomes? To play devil's advocate, how can you believe that something made a difference if you didn't see the whole process play out? You seem to have hindsight bias...

BTW, it's pretty common for interviewers to compliment applicants. It's best to ignore those compliments and stay objective.

I agree we don’t know what exactly goes into the process so we all speculate. Once you go past stats you need to believe something stood out for adcoms to invite you for interview and then give an A. In that sense I believe/speculate LORs made the difference given that there is no compelling personal narrative or gap year or ton of service hours (as suggested in WAMC thread) for an ORM from CA. BTW, one of the schools where interviewer talked about strong LORs gave WL (that too after dean sent you are a strong candidate but it’s early in the season email) so I know what you mean.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I really think this depends on the school. I wouldn't be surprised if NYU didn't even look at LoRs or PS's before sending IIs (at least the first batch) and instead just made sure you had good research and the obligatory 522+/3.9+, lol.

As an applicant from a ivy near NYC sending a lot of people to NYU, I can tell you that a lot of people who are clearly going to be denied post-interview (or if someone just read their apps) have gotten IIs at NYU and other stat loving schools.

I think this is largely a reason why some people get into a few of the stat schools then fail to get IIs at other more holistic schools, from top to mid.

It’s opposite for my kid, no NYU II with the stats you mentioned but got IIs from all other research heavy schools.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Can confirm. We're trained to be polite. There are also plenty of situations where an individual interviewer really likes a candidate, but the candidate does not make it past the entire admissions committee

What’s the need to say you have very strong LORs just to be polite? I can understand one interviewer may have been more impressed than others but saying just to be polite is odd.

 

[gyngyn]

What’s the need to say you have very strong LORs just to be polite? I can understand one interviewer may have been more impressed than others but saying just to be polite is odd.

It's the interview equivalent of "small talk."
We are trying to relax the victim, errh interviewee.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

It's the interview equivalent of "small talk."
We are trying to relax the victim, errh interviewee.

I do interviews (for IT jobs) and my small talk doesn’t involve giving false information 😀

 

[Goro]

I do interviews (for IT jobs) and my small talk doesn’t involve giving false information 😀

What’s the need to say you have very strong LORs just to be polite? I can understand one interviewer may have been more impressed than others but saying just to be polite is odd.

We don't lie to interviewees.

 

[Goro]

OP's question is about getting interviews not acceptances. Very strong letters or PSs catch the attention otherwise won't make much difference is what you hear repeatedly. When interviewers from multiple schools tell you that your LORs are very strong you believe that they made a difference

Stats get you to the door. ECs get you through the door.

 

[deleted1080380]

I really think this depends on the school. I wouldn't be surprised if NYU didn't even look at LoRs or PS's before sending IIs (at least the first batch) and instead just made sure you had good research and the obligatory 522+/3.9+, lol.

FWIW I received an II to NYU with 25 clinical scribing hours (400 projected for the summer) and pretty much zero 'volunteer' hours aside from my entrepreneurial commitments and paid tutoring which are...not volunteering.

I have also gotten IIs from a few other 'stat' schools like Pritzker and Baylor (both OOS). BUT....I have not received a secondary from UCSF nor a II from Pitt (submitted very early) so it's somewhat safe to say the latter is at least out of the question, and those schools tend to be more holistic from my limited readings on this forum and elsewhere.

Further, despite having near nill volunteer or clinical hours, I am very unique as an applicant, probably 1 in at least 10k. I think as long as you bring something to the table that is enticing enough while also having high stats, schools don't really care about checkmarks. At the end of the day, if you're already a proven success, schools probably will want to snag you and have you displaying their name for all to see. Same with college, and the same reason people with olympic level athletics/famous stuff get easy A's at top schools. I might be wrong but just speculating.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Stats get you to the door. ECs get you through the door.

So Purpose of LOR and PS is to weed out bad apples?

 

[gyngyn]

So Purpose of LOR and PS is to weed out bad apples?

Neither of these serve that purpose...sadly.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Neither of these serve that purpose...sadly.

If that’s the case, why not eliminate these requirements? Use stats and ECs to select candidates for interviews and then use interviews to make the final cut.

 

[deleted1025488]

If that’s the case, why not eliminate these requirements? Use stats and ECs to select candidates for interviews and then use interviews to make the final cut.

That's already what happens

 

[gyngyn]

If that’s the case, why not eliminate these requirements? Use stats and ECs to select candidates for interviews and then use interviews to make the final cut.

It forces college students to learn how to talk to old people. This is a proxy for learning to talk to people different from themselves.

 

[Goro]

@gyngyn @gonnif could you please share some particularly asinine/insincere narratives you or colleagues have read during your careers? I'm curious what the extremes are (maybe should start a thread about it).

edit: like Mbuto, pass me another baby vibes

One of the worst that I can remember was a woman who tried to convey that because she was a good mom, that she'd be a good doctor. She even had her son write a LOR for her!

 

[gyngyn]

One of the worst that I can remember was a woman who tried to convey that because she was a good mom, that she'd be a good doctor. She even had her son write a LOR for her!

The guy who took the MCAT 40 times had his 80+ year old mother sign a letter of support from her bed at the nursing home. This, after he had made much of her incapacitating dementia in his PS.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Dr.Death could be an interesting topic. Watched that show on Peacock channel last week.

 

[deleted1037524]

One of the worst that I can remember was a woman who tried to convey that because she was a good mom, that she'd be a good doctor. She even had her son write a LOR for her!

So, based on this thread, would you say this was a rare case where a LOR made the difference?