Most "Livable" Island?

Started by frenchie
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frenchie

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which is, after all the most important thing....not dropping out from partying. When you are wanting to become a doctor, it seems that you would consider much, much more than simply living conditions for a year and a half. Because at the end of the day, you really only spend a year and a half in the Caribbean at SGU, then you begin rotations. Strip clubs after class as a priority seems a little off.
 
Which of the Big 3 has the most livable island? And by livable I mean residences (dorms), food, transportation, safety, lifestyle which would be comparable to the US. I've heard AUC would be a good place to live, but SGU would be better residency appt wise. Any insight? Thanks!
 
MD-iwish said:
Which of the Big 3 has the most livable island? And by livable I mean residences (dorms), food, transportation, safety, lifestyle which would be comparable to the US. I've heard AUC would be a good place to live, but SGU would be better residency appt wise. Any insight? Thanks!

You will find many opinions on this but this is how my family decided on Ross. SGU was full the semester we applied and it was more expensive. AUC...we looked at housing and thought we would not be able to afford it and we thought Ross had better clinical placement. If SGU was open and the same price we probably would have gone there, but we are happy with our decision. Now, a single student I think has good options at all 3. I would go wherever you think will fit you best education wise.

I think that it was a great experience for my kids. In fact it's sad how quickly they have forgotten how most of the children on the island live. My "don't you remember that some of the kids in Dominica only had 1 toy??? etc" is NOT working. They say, "yes Mom I know they didn't have toys but can we please go to Toys R Us, cause I'm so bored with my toys". UGH! I haven't give in but it makes me sad that they just don't get it anymore. I am trying sooooo hard to not have our happiness based on if we spend money! Ok, sorry to ramble...hubby is on call today... 😉
 
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You're awesome mom2five, forget pre-med committee, you are my official advisor from now on 😛 . I'm going to go ahead and apply to all 3 of them, and then see where I get accepted. These are the things that I think are positive abt them:
1. SGU - most reputable, good residency appts, however its the most expensive

2. Ross - good residency appts, fairly expensive, I just hope I do well enough on the island so that I dont have to move around a lot for rotations

3. AUC - good lifestyle (from what I've heard), least expensive, not so good residency appts, personal issues against AUC :meanie:

And I think I'll have to con a friend to go with me, I'm so freaked out by the thought of living there alone 😱.

As for the kids, I think I'm much worse..."I got a Caribbean acceptance? Noooo I want an American acceptance!" :laugh:. Here's a thought, hide some of the toys from the kiddos for a couple of months. When you return them to them, they'll think they're new toys. But then again, kids aren't as dumb as they were in my day..... :laugh:
 
We visited St. Martin...got $69 rountrip tickets from Dominica! Of course we loved the island as a tourist destination! We were so excited to see fast food restaurants, but got sick for a few hours after eating at them! Housing is pretty expensive in St. Martin (I'm comparing family housing in Dominica to family housing in St. Marten). Some families I knew also didn't run their AC cause the bill was so high, it's expensive in Dominica too. Again, a single student won't be home that much and it's not that pricey to cool a small apt. at night. We got our Scuba Diving certification in Dominica too...really fun. We went to Cabrits which is the dive shop next to the school. Here is a website from one of dive masters with LOTS of Dominica pics. http://www.liquidguru.com/ Research Dominica and have some idea of what type of island it is. My husband experienced a little culture shock, I didn't really but I had been on a mission trip to India and so had seen some extremely poor places before.

I really don't know as much about SGU since I've never been to the island. I can answer most anything about Dominica. We went all over the island and had different family members visit often. Our families loved the island. It is a fun place to take a vacation...the frustrating part about living there is mostly just customer service issues. Like "ya mon, have your car fixed tomorrow"...1 1/2 lweeks ater still not done...power going out, chicken for dinner all the time etc. The power goes out in St. Martin too. We had a car (not necessary if you are single but walking with kids...no way). Since we had kids my husband was sort of forced to take time off and have fun. Too many students get in a real funk and do nothing but study and complain. You need to take breaks. You need to catch a sunset and remember that there are lots of things to be thankful for in life. I'm telling you this because it's harder I think for single people on the island to keep life in perspective. Kids just don't let you get so self-absorbed. On the island we hiked the highest mountain (3+ hours each way), visited numerous waterfalls, went whale watching, went kayaking, went water skiing, visited the hot springs, road the rain forest Tram, walked nature trails up in the mountains, had beach days, went swimming in the river, went on a small row boat down Indian river, took trips to the few nice hotels and few nice restaurants.

Anyway, we are making the best of the experience. It's like anything, we wouldn't want to have to do it again but we try to treasure what we have learned. Oh, you also have a 3 week or so break at the end of every semester and I'd say most single students go home. You are on Dominica a total of 4 semesters (or 16 months) so it's not that long that you are on the island if you take trips home. Students really get revived after seeing family and filling their suitcase with U.S. goodies to bring back.

My husband and I keep trying to figure out what I could do to make $$...I love to talk/help people and I try to keep a fair perspective about things. I'd make a great advisor and I think it'd be fun to interview prospective students. But for now it's trying to help my kiddos with their strenghts and weaknesses and taking an internet break every once in awhile to keep my sanity and feel like I've gotten "out" of the house.
 
JKDMed said:
Mom, could you tell me more about Dominica? I've been set on AUC only because of the island being "more hospitable" (I'm married) but I really like Ross's reputation and residency placements.

I have lived on st. maarten with my wife for a year now with my wife. I chose AUC mainly for the lifestyle. WHen I was in your position, I was attracted to the better match lists at SGU and ROSS, but I knew my wife would never make it on one of those islands. But, if you think about it, the fact that AUC does match more FP than the others might have something to do with the decision people make to come here because of lifestyle. Generally, people with families aren't going to want to match into competetive fields with worse lifestyles (surgery). I don't think you should put too much thought into the match lists. People from AUC have matched into almost every specialty.. why couldn't you do it.

At AUC, we have a great spouses club, that serves as a good support group for spouses. Also, on st. maarten, you really don't miss that many comforts of home. I am very happy with my choice, because if my wife isn't happy, I'm not happy.

Anyways, hope this helps, and good luck.
 
JKDMed said:
Mom, could you tell me more about Dominica? I've been set on AUC only because of the island being "more hospitable" (I'm married) but I really like Ross's reputation and residency placements.

Search under my name for other posts I have made concerning Dominica.

I was just thinking today that many people choose to live on Dominica. People that own dive shops, restaurants, hotels, or just like to live there. I think it always hurts their feelings some when students complain about living conditions. I never had much compassion for the single students...we survived with kids in tow as did numerous families. We had so many wild experiences there and the farther removed (the more time that passes) the funnier the "not so funny" ones become.

If you go to Dominica as a tourist it is a beautiful unspoiled nature paradise. 365 Rivers, waterfalls, hiking, sailing, whale watching, scuba diving, etc. etc. As a tourist anything new is fun. The problem is that living there is very different because you have to deal with day to day life (and in the U.S. we have many things that make life easier...fast food restaurants, superb grocery stores, movie houses, etc etc). Setting up your phone, cable, etc. can take longer than you are used to. When someone says they will be at your house at a certain time, well, sometimes they aren't. But it is like this in many parts of the world. My cousin that lives in France deals with many of the same issues that I did in Dominica. So keep that in mind.

We had a really good attitude and enjoyed ourselves for about the first 9 months and then we got cranky. We didn't have AC in our house so we moved to one that did and that helped a lot! Lots of things were going on though...I got pregnant with #5, we missed our extended families, and I was tired of cooking and bored with the food. For a Mom I think that is the hardest, heck I'm having that problem now. After I got pregnant I couldn't do some of the things that relieved stress (scuba diving, beach wasn't as fun as I got bigger) so that made it hard. I stayed on the island until 8 months pregnant though! My kids loved it and never complained. Some other kids would complain about not getting to go to McDonald's but for some reason mine never did. There are sooooo many students that bring spouses and or children. There are older students (2nd career), male, female, and a wide range of ethnicity. It is important for me that my kids see the world from different perspectives so I appreciate the experience we had. The downsides of attending Ross I think apply to the Caribbean in general. I have never been a big "school pride" person anyway so I'd never tell people to go to Ross or not to go. We will have great stories to tell our grandchildren that is for sure!

Specifics:
Ross is located on Prince Rupert's Bay in Portsmouth which is at the NW tip of the island. You fly (or drop from the sky 😉 into the airport on the NE side of the island. The trip from the airport to the school is about 1 hour. It is a winding ride through banana tree forests, mountains, cliffs, breathtaking views of the ocean, etc. The trip makes many people nauseous. I was in the very back nursing our youngest at the time which was an adventure in itself. The transports are European looking vans. We had a house already lined up but most students will stay the night at a hotel and then go on a housing tour the next day.

The campus is normal. The older buildings are the white/metal and the newer ones are block (concrete). There are tennis courts, and basketball courts, the campus is gated, elementary school on campus, a small fitness room, a bookstore (which is NOT owned by Ross and sells coffee, candy bars, and other food from the U.S. oh and some books; the students complain about how expensive it is to buy the U.S. junk food and it is but remember that they ship it from the U.S. and then have to pay customs and then sell it at a profit...moral of the story bring your own treats).

The capitol city is Roseau and is an hour away South. It is a pretty drive as well and not as winding as the airport road. The roads in Dominica pretty much circle the island because it is very mountainous. In Roseau you can find some good grocery stores that will make cooking more fun. The cruise ships that come to Dominica dock here as well so it is the most tourist built-up place. We went whale watching from here. Up into the mountains from Roseau you can visit Trafalgar Waterfalls, the Rain Forest Tram (70 min. ride above the rain forest canopy; the company that built it has one other in Costa Rica), and there are some nice hotels in Roseau. My mil sent us there when she visited for a night. It is nice to get away from campus and the student life every once in awhile.

Back up to Portsmouth...the school is the major attraction. There is an old Fort that my kids liked and the North side of the bay. The best beach is at the school. The beaches are black sand (volcanic island) but we enjoyed it. We got our scuba certification at Cabrits Dive Shop which is next to the school. Super fun! All our dives were in the ocean. It rains often but not usually for long. Sometimes the sun is shining in the rain. Weather is pretty much Hot/Humid. Even on cooler days the humidity is usually high. I remember when we hiked up the highest mountain and I was so excited that I was cold! I saw rainbows daily. Sometimes we saw double and triple rainbows. The island is GREEN. They grow most of the produce that is shipped to other islands.

I can't think right now what else to mention. Oh, most of our extended families came for a visit and loved it. My brother-in-law went to Hawaii after visiting us and he said he liked Dominica better but if he had to live on an island he'd pick Hawaii. They liked the undeveloped island...Hawaii was too much like the U.S. for their tastes...it is all perspective though. Research Dominica like you were going on vacation....buy a guide book, mine has St. Lucia and Dominca together...look up real-estate to get pictures of houses, etc. Most locals live in shanty buildings...small wooden shacks with metal roofs. If you have never seen anything like that it is different. You will see housing like that on all the islands I believe. The internet is a great tool...I was always suprised how many students were shocked and really didn't seem like they had investigated the island or the SCHOOL. Hope this helps.
 
astaley said:
I have lived on st. maarten with my wife for a year now with my wife. I chose AUC mainly for the lifestyle. WHen I was in your position, I was attracted to the better match lists at SGU and ROSS, but I knew my wife would never make it on one of those islands. But, if you think about it, the fact that AUC does match more FP than the others might have something to do with the decision people make to come here because of lifestyle. Generally, people with families aren't going to want to match into competetive fields with worse lifestyles (surgery). I don't think you should put too much thought into the match lists. People from AUC have matched into almost every specialty.. why couldn't you do it.

At AUC, we have a great spouses club, that serves as a good support group for spouses. Also, on st. maarten, you really don't miss that many comforts of home. I am very happy with my choice, because if my wife isn't happy, I'm not happy.

Anyways, hope this helps, and good luck.

We got to visit the island and enjoyed ourselves (or was it that we were alone without 4 kids for the weekend 😉 I was actually pregnant at the time and we did a wave runner tour of the island...man I was scared most of the time trying to take it easy and trying to keep up with the guide. Right now my husband is at a hospital with students from SGU, AUC, and DO schools. There doesn't seem to be a huge right/wrong choice...I agree 100% with you. Pros and Cons of any school. Good luck to you!
 
without question best living conditions= AUC= St. Maarten. Great restaurants, modern movie theaters, American style supermarkets etc.
 
Is this even a question? Arguing that Dominica and Grenada are nicer than St. Maarten because of their untouched natural surrounding is like arguing the Haiti is nicer than Hawaii based on the same rationale. This just sounds like rationalizing at it's best "Dominica is special because there is nothing there and it is very primitive." Yeah, gotcha! Please, just put it away.....and be honest. You know Dominica and Grenada suck, but then again you aren't going there for the ambience. At the very least, have the temerity to level with people. If you had to choose between St. Maarten vs. Dominica and Ross to live regardless of whichever medical school, all of you would choose St. Maarten every single time. Seriously, you will have an easier time convincing me that hell isn't a bad place because it doesn't snow there than arguing Dominica and Grenada are nicer than St. Maarten.

It doesn't matter. You are still an IMG. St. George or Ross doesn't place you into surgery, it's your board scores, grades and LOR's, all of those traits are acquired due to merit and not one's school name. St. George and Ross just attract better students, that's why they have better placement success. It's not like their school's name is opening doors for them. If you went to AUC and got a 250 on Step I, you too would match surgery and then you will have a bunch of geniuses look at your school's match list and say: "Wow, that guy got general surgery, AUC is placing people well. Great job AUC." It's not the school man, it's you. Might as well attend the school with the most hospitable environment, campus and student body which is clearly AUC. It's going to be up to you how well you do. Schools don't make students. Students make schools.
 
novacek88 said:
Is this even a question? Arguing that Dominica and Grenada are nicer than St. Maarten because of their untouched natural surrounding is like arguing the Haiti is nicer than Hawaii based on the same rationale. This just sounds like rationalizing at it's best "Dominica is special because there is nothing there and it is very primitive." Yeah, gotcha! Please, just put it away.....and be honest. You know Dominica and Grenada suck, but then again you aren't going there for the ambience. At the very least, have the temerity to level with people. If you had to choose between St. Maarten vs. Dominica and Ross to live regardless of whichever medical school, all of you would choose St. Maarten every single time. Seriously, you will have an easier time convincing me that hell isn't a bad place because it doesn't snow there than arguing Dominica and Grenada are nicer than St. Maarten.

It doesn't matter. You are still an IMG. St. George or Ross doesn't place you into surgery, it's your board scores, grades and LOR's, all of those traits are acquired due to merit and not one's school name. St. George and Ross just attract better students, that's why they have better placement success. It's not like their school's name is opening doors for them. If you went to AUC and got a 250 on Step I, you too would match surgery and then you will have a bunch of geniuses look at your school's match list and say: "Wow, that guy got general surgery, AUC is placing people well. Great job AUC." It's not the school man, it's you. Might as well attend the school with the most hospitable environment, campus and student body which is clearly AUC. It's going to be up to you how well you do. Schools don't make students. Students make schools.

I never said Dominica was nicer whatever that means. My point was that for a vacation we would rather go to Dominica and for living we would have rather lived on St. M. And I was truthful about everyone that visited us. They were very well traveled people and LOVED Dominica. It all depends on your background and how much U.S. conviences mean to you. I tried very hard to put a fair perspective on it. It's just that I know sooooooo many families that went thru it and to equate Dominica with Hell isn't a fair representation.
 
MD-iwish said:
Which of the Big 3 has the most livable island? And by livable I mean residences (dorms), food, transportation, safety, lifestyle which would be comparable to the US. I've heard AUC would be a good place to live, but SGU would be better residency appt wise. Any insight? Thanks!

Ross grad = IMG
SGU grad = IMG
AUC grad = IMG

They are all foreign schools, they are all Caribbean schools, and you are required to get ECFMG ceritification after graduating from all 3. Don't let anyone fool you, you will always be a IMG (hence, a disadvantage in obtaining a competative residency) regardless of which one you choose.

As far as living, AUC is worlds ahead of the rest when it comes down to living. Both Ross and SGU are located in the middle of a jungle...yes, a JUNGLE!
 
Pleiades said:
Ross grad = IMG
SGU grad = IMG
AUC grad = IMG

They are all foreign schools, they are all Caribbean schools, and you are required to get ECFMG ceritificationafter graduating from all 3. Don't let anyone fool you, you will always be a IMG (hence, a disadvantage in obtaining a competative residency) regardless of which one you choose.

As far as living, AUC is worlds ahead of the rest when it comes down to living. Both Ross and SGU are located in the middle of a jungle...yes, a JUNGLE!

While Grenada is not St. Martin (no Mc Donald's, no casinos, no strip clubs...), its not quite the jungle you think it is- there are roads, restaurants, IGA grocery store, even a KFC and a Subways!!!- There are definitely things about Grenada I didn't like, but let's face it Caribbean island is a Caribbean island and after a year and a half- everyone wants to just go back home!(I know some AUC students who endured living on St. Martin just as there are SGU students who endured living in Grenada and Ross students I'm sure felt the same way.
Quality of life IN medical school isn't the point - its the quality of life AFTER that's important!!
 
Good idea! They will still be fascinated by it for a few hours 🙂. I am not going to do that however. I think if you can afford it let them have some fun while they're young because once they are our age they will be too busy with the application cycle, like we are, to be able to have any "real" fun.
 
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FutureDocDO said:
Good idea! They will still be fascinated by it for a few hours 🙂. I am not going to do that however. I think if you can afford it let them have some fun while they're young because once they are our age they will be too busy with the application cycle, like we are, to be able to have any "real" fun.


What? You mean you dont think the application cycle is a ton of fun? That's blasphemy!!!! 😱
 
Mom2five said:
I never said Dominica was nicer whatever that means. My point was that for a vacation we would rather go to Dominica and for living we would have rather lived on St. M. And I was truthful about everyone that visited us. They were very well traveled people and LOVED Dominica. It all depends on your background and how much U.S. conviences mean to you. I tried very hard to put a fair perspective on it. It's just that I know sooooooo many families that went thru it and to equate Dominica with Hell isn't a fair representation.

Mom

I'm going to call you mom because you sound like my mom and I mean that in a good way. Anyway, mom, you sound like a "Granola." You sound like one of those people that loves nature and adventure and appreciates things left in it's natural order. Hey...different strokes right so obviously Dominica won't seem like hell to you. But I know soooooo many city slickers who dropped out of Ross because they couldn't hack Dominica. Let's be honest, Ross loses a lot of students just to Dominica itself because its truly a third world country. Yeah, these people are a little on the whiny and spoiled "I grew up in LA" side but not suprisingly a lot of people who attend Ross happen to fit that mold.
 
rokshana said:
While Grenada is not St. Martin (no Mc Donald's, no casinos, no strip clubs...), its not quite the jungle you think it is- there are roads, restaurants, IGA grocery store, even a KFC and a Subways!!!- There are definitely things about Grenada I didn't like, but let's face it Caribbean island is a Caribbean island and after a year and a half- everyone wants to just go back home!(I know some AUC students who endured living on St. Martin just as there are SGU students who endured living in Grenada and Ross students I'm sure felt the same way.
Quality of life IN medical school isn't the point - its the quality of life AFTER that's important!!

You would know more about both St. Martin and Grenada than me so I will defer to your opinion. But I know a ton of people mostly guys that had a blast on St. Martin. I mean these guys still talk about St. Martin and actually make me wish I went to school with them at times. They talk about going to bars, clubs and yes...even strip clubs after class. They also mention how the island had pretty much everything they had in the U.S. like movie theatres, shopping etc.

And you know what's funny, all of them admit St. George is a better school and that Ross has better clinical sites. But when asked if they could do it all over again, without hesitation these guys say they would go to AUC. All of them are doing well and matched so it's not like they dropped out from partying.
 
novacek88 said:
Mom

I'm going to call you mom because you sound like my mom and I mean that in a good way. Anyway, mom, you sound like a "Granola." You sound like one of those people that loves nature and adventure and appreciates things left in it's natural order. Hey...different strokes right so obviously Dominica won't seem like hell to you. But I know soooooo many city slickers who dropped out of Ross because they couldn't hack Dominica. Let's be honest, Ross loses a lot of students just to Dominica itself because its truly a third world country. Yeah, these people are a little on the whiny and spoiled "I grew up in LA" side but not suprisingly a lot of people who attend Ross happen to fit that mold.

This is why I said I would never tell people to go to Ross...I'm not for or against it. People wanted to know about the island and I tried to be fair and give some insight to what it is like to live there. Of course, like marriage and parenting, you can read all the books but you have to actually do it to understand. I have stated in soooo many posts "please don't go to Dominica if you are just going to whine, etc". I was very suprised at the students who would arrive and look like they had landed on Mars...I mean people really it wasn't that hard for me to research where I was moving...in the age of internet there is really no excuse to be "shocked".
 
MD-iwish said:
Which of the Big 3 has the most livable island? And by livable I mean residences (dorms), food, transportation, safety, lifestyle which would be comparable to the US. I've heard AUC would be a good place to live, but SGU would be better residency appt wise. Any insight? Thanks!

If u want to stay concentrated on your studies...go to Dominica. i.e. ross
 
Hahaha right on mom. I think the photos on valuemd.com are pretty good (seeing as they're personal photos and not the school's promotional photos), they seem to give a realistic feel of the place. I just wish they had more 🙁 .
 
novacek88 said:
Mom

I'm going to call you mom because you sound like my mom and I mean that in a good way. Anyway, mom, you sound like a "Granola." You sound like one of those people that loves nature and adventure and appreciates things left in it's natural order. Hey...different strokes right so obviously Dominica won't seem like hell to you. But I know soooooo many city slickers who dropped out of Ross because they couldn't hack Dominica. Let's be honest, Ross loses a lot of students just to Dominica itself because its truly a third world country. Yeah, these people are a little on the whiny and spoiled "I grew up in LA" side but not suprisingly a lot of people who attend Ross happen to fit that mold.

Oh, I guess it's ok sunny boy! 😉 Doubt I'm much older than you but that's ok. The 5 kid thing really "ages" me. 🙂 For me, Dominica was an adventure and I tried my best to appreciate it as just that.
 
I think it's all about the attitude, mindset, and expectations you have, Mom seems to be an amazingly optimistic person with an open mind 😀 . You've made me so less scared of "The Islands" *evil theme music* hahaaa. So Mom what are you upto these days?
 
MD-iwish said:
I think it's all about the attitude, mindset, and expectations you have, Mom seems to be an amazingly optimistic person with an open mind 😀 . You've made me so less scared of "The Islands" *evil theme music* hahaaa. So Mom what are you upto these days?

Well, I just finished up a college course...I now have 105 credit hours!!!! I can see the light... I've been taking college classes since I graduated in 1994 and the last 45 hours have been with kids so I feel good about that. Now I have my head in the game of "make hubby a Dr." I was a little distracted taking my own class. We just joined a gym (24 hour fitness) which is cool. We've never belonged to a gym before. They have a climbing treadmill (rock climbing wall that moves with you). I tried it out last night and whew! It was fun and I was out of breath in a few minutes. I wear my husbands climbing shoes but I'm going to have to get my own. My forearms were burning!!! I felt kind of like a dork though cause the wall is in the middle of the gym so I was in eyeshot of everyone.

Other news...my Mama comes in 1 week for a visit!!! Mom to the rescue! The kids are thrilled and I have lots of errands/business to attend to that will be much easier without dragging all the kids with me. At the end of the month my sister comes for a visit with her 2 yr. old and she is staying for two weeks. We will have six kids ages 7 and under!!!!!

The other day I was in the store and this woman came up to me and said in a nasty voice "you have 4 kids???" I said "no actually 5, the other one is over there with his Dad." She gave me a dirty look and walked away. Albeit I was about half her size but I don't know why she was so disgusted. It's amazing, every where I go, strangers will come up to me and feel the need to comment. Only a small percent is postive. And my kids are soooo good in public. I look young...I am young. I also get people that say "look at her it's not fair she has 5 kids and she's that small, etc." I gained over 50 pounds with every pregnancy so it's not fair that I should lose it? What, I should be fat just so you feel better??? Ok, I'm done 🙂

Other than cooking and cleaning I like to read. I've pretty much read Iserson's "Getting into a Residency" and search this forum for info. I enjoy it and it helps my husband be able to focus on learning his stuff. I still haven't figured out how to use my skills to make $$ without leaving the kids in daycare. We barely make it on student loans. Even my baby is an eater. She seems to eat as much as the others. I'd love to help people write Personal Statements and Resumes. Right now I'm just passing on good info. to my other friends that we've made through Ross. Really that was the best thing about Ross. I made some great life-long friends. We were all going thru the same things...husband's in school, island life, and it was so bonding. We are all spread out over the country now but are good about passing on Ross info and keeping in touch. Well, that's my life. Someday's I feel really good about it and somedays I feel like my life sucks. Emotions are fickle though and I know that my kids and husband appreciate me.