MPH MPH to PhD

[armchair_cosmonaut]

I went ahead and took the liberty of creating a specific thread for those who are applying to master's programs with the intention of going onto PhD programs afterwards.

Some questions I've had:
1. How much does where you get your master's degree actually matter in PhD admissions? I understand that making connections at an institution you'd like to do a PhD at is helpful, but having heard the common advice of go to whatever program is cheapest, does this apply equally to those who want to do a PhD?
2. How certain are all of you? For me, I know I like research, I like public health in general, and I enjoyed the one class I've taken in epi so far. However, what remains to be seen (and what will decide whether I actually go to a PhD in epi afterwards) is how much I like the computer/stats/calculations aspect of it. My experience so far is much more heavy in the data collection/entry side than the analysis side.
3. Thoughts on MS versus MPH? I've heard a lot of conflicting things. I've had some professors tell me an MPH is a better degree for the name of it, but many MS degrees offer more flexibility which appeals to me.

Looking forward to hearing others' questions and thoughts and getting a discussion going on this topic which seems to be on the minds of a lot of posters here!

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[flawedmph]

Thanks for starting this! I'll add my own question:

Do some MPH programs maximize chances for publications compared to others?

Also, paging @wwmmkk! Hope you don't mind me volunteering you but you have been so incredibly helpful in other threads. You mentioned somewhere that colleagues who have great academic/research backgrounds found it difficult to gain admission to PhD programs. What do you think set your application apart? Congratulations on your successful application cycle btw!

 

[MuppetLord]

Thanks again for starting this! I just figured out how to properly make a new thread haha

From my understanding, an MS with a thesis is the stronger degree if you are very sure of going down the data analytics path. However, those with an MPH have the opportunity to conduct field work (which is along the line of the whole survey design and data collection deal). An MSPH is a happy medium with the rigors of a research degree coupled with exposure to field experience. It looks like you have a selection of top-notch programs of all three degree types to choose from, so congrats on that!

Can you elaborate on any specific interests that you have within the realm of public health? Also, which admitted student days are you all planning to attend? I'll be hitting up WashU, Visit Emory, and JHU in within the next month.

P.S. I'm planning on talking to some impartial epidemiology professors about their advice. I'll post them here as I gather their thoughts.

 

[flawedmph]

Thanks again for starting this! I just figured out how to properly make a new thread haha

From my understanding, an MS with a thesis is the stronger degree if you are very sure of going down the data analytics path. However, those with an MPH have the opportunity to conduct field work (which is along the line of the whole survey design and data collection deal). An MSPH is a happy medium with the rigors of a research degree coupled with exposure to field experience. It looks like you have a selection of top-notch programs of all three degree types to choose from, so congrats on that!

Can you elaborate on any specific interests that you have within the realm of public health? Also, which admitted student days are you all planning to attend? I'll be hitting up WashU, Visit Emory, and JHU in within the next month.

P.S. I'm planning on talking to some impartial epidemiology professors about their advice. I'll post them here as I gather their thoughts.

Agree with all of this! I spoke to an epidemiologist who got his MSPH before getting his PhD and he said the MS/MPH/MSPH designation does not matter as much as how you utilize available resources and tailor your curriculum. He recommended taking a lot of methods courses (quantitative and qualitative) and survey design and implementation courses. He also recommended getting a research position with a PI whose research interests fit yours as quickly as possible. Find a PI, communicate your own research goals, implement studies/projects, and publish, publish, publish.

I should mention my own research interests: I’m interested in the behavioral sciences and community-based participatory research involving homelessness, public housing, and mental health interventions.

I’ll be going to admitted students days at Columbia, JHU, UNC, and Emory. Hope to meet you guys at one of these places!

 

[armchair_cosmonaut]

Thanks again for starting this! I just figured out how to properly make a new thread haha

From my understanding, an MS with a thesis is the stronger degree if you are very sure of going down the data analytics path. However, those with an MPH have the opportunity to conduct field work (which is along the line of the whole survey design and data collection deal). An MSPH is a happy medium with the rigors of a research degree coupled with exposure to field experience. It looks like you have a selection of top-notch programs of all three degree types to choose from, so congrats on that!

Can you elaborate on any specific interests that you have within the realm of public health? Also, which admitted student days are you all planning to attend? I'll be hitting up WashU, Visit Emory, and JHU in within the next month.

P.S. I'm planning on talking to some impartial epidemiology professors about their advice. I'll post them here as I gather their thoughts.

So far, I don't have any admitted students days on my radar. I'm only able to seriously consider places with funding, which so far is Columbia--which I've already visited and spoken to a few alums about. If a program gets back to me with a better funding offer and has a visit day I'm able to attend, I will go, otherwise I just plan to schedule a visit if possible before making a decision.

My research interests are: perinatal epidemiology, health disparities, and I'm interested in learning more about social and environmental epi. I'm really interested in maternal outcomes, but it seems most research in the perinatal period is focused on fetal outcomes (or lifecourse epidemiology). I think for me the biggest thing will just be to get involved with a perinatal epidemiologist (period) and go from there.

 

[wwmmkk]

Wellllll since y'all asked and I'm just sitting here refreshing my application portals for my remaining schools anyway...

I applied to 5 behavioral science programs and 1 social epi program. I think epi is a different and more competitive beast than behavioral. I am not sure how much my advice will translate, but here it is!

• I don’t think where you get your master’s is as important as what you do during it. Research is what matters. If you’re just plowing through coursework and doing a typical internship at JHU, that’s going to look worse than getting RA experience, completing a thesis, and getting your name on a few papers at Large State School.
• I was certain I hated research when I started my MPH. I’ve done a complete 180. So, be open to changing your mind about what you want to do and keeping your options flexible.
• I don’t think MS vs. MPH vs. MSPH really matters all that much, at least not in behavioral science. Again, the important thing for PhD admissions is research experience. MPH programs vary wildly in how much research experience students typically get; MS and MSPH less so. I honestly think I’ve gotten more research experience in my MPH degree at Brown than people I know in Brown’s Epi ScM because that’s what I’ve prioritized.

Here’s what I think made it possible for me to go from “I hate research” to getting into some really solid PhD programs:

• Mentorship during my MPH. I took a research methods class first semester (to get that requirement out of the way), and the professor took an interest in me because we shared interests within public health and I was performing well in the class. He pulled me onto several projects the spring, I worked with him over the summer, and I’ve been basically a pseudo-PhD student (attending his advisee meetings, collaborating on papers, etc.) with him this year. He also wrote me a killer LOR.
• Using classes to my advantage. I took a lot of research methods classes to make up my gaps since I had no research experience before my MPH. These classes were more challenging than content classes and usually had term projects attached that, if students wanted, could be publishable papers. I’ve submitted one paper from a class to a journal as first author and will have 2 others in addition to my 2 thesis papers and a couple conference abstracts before I graduate. This wouldn't have been possible if I did an MPH program with lots of required content classes or an inflexible structure.
• Writing an SOP that expressed a really clear idea of what I want to do, why, and how that was realistic and well-matched (but not overlapping) with researchers at each program. I struggled with writing my SOP and found the following advice from mentors helpful:
  • Cut all fluff. Don’t write anything about your life; write about research.
  • Communicate a strong idea of big-picture research questions you’d want to work on during your PhD and subsequent career.
  • Be clear about what you want to learn during a PhD in terms of content and methodology. Avoid writing as if you know everything about your discipline already. Be humble.
  • Be clear about what you want to learn from each POI you identify in your SOP and how your interest complements and extends their work.

I'm not sure if I missed a question anyone asked in there... let me know if you have more. It seems l come off as a bit of an expert on MPH admissions, but I promise you, I am in no way an expert on PhD admissions. But I'm happy to talk about my experience. There's not a whole lot out there on public health PhD admissions here or on GradCafe, so I might as well create that content for others.

 

[flawedmph]

Wellllll since y'all asked and I'm just sitting here refreshing my application portals for my remaining schools anyway...

I applied to 5 behavioral science programs and 1 social epi program. I think epi is a different and more competitive beast than behavioral. I am not sure how much my advice will translate, but here it is!

• I don’t think where you get your master’s is as important as what you do during it. Research is what matters. If you’re just plowing through coursework and doing a typical internship at JHU, that’s going to look worse than getting RA experience, completing a thesis, and getting your name on a few papers at Large State School.
• I was certain I hated research when I started my MPH. I’ve done a complete 180. So, be open to changing your mind about what you want to do and keeping your options flexible.
• I don’t think MS vs. MPH vs. MSPH really matters all that much, at least not in behavioral science. Again, the important thing for PhD admissions is research experience. MPH programs vary wildly in how much research experience students typically get; MS and MSPH less so. I honestly think I’ve gotten more research experience in my MPH degree at Brown than people I know in Brown’s Epi ScM because that’s what I’ve prioritized.

Here’s what I think made it possible for me to go from “I hate research” to getting into some really solid PhD programs:

• Mentorship during my MPH. I took a research methods class first semester (to get that requirement out of the way), and the professor took an interest in me because we shared interests within public health and I was performing well in the class. He pulled me onto several projects the spring, I worked with him over the summer, and I’ve been basically a pseudo-PhD student (attending his advisee meetings, collaborating on papers, etc.) with him this year. He also wrote me a killer LOR.
• Using classes to my advantage. I took a lot of research methods classes to make up my gaps since I had no research experience before my MPH. These classes were more challenging than content classes and usually had term projects attached that, if students wanted, could be publishable papers. I’ve submitted one paper from a class to a journal as first author and will have 2 others in addition to my 2 thesis papers and a couple conference abstracts before I graduate. This wouldn't have been possible if I did an MPH program with lots of required content classes or an inflexible structure.
• Writing an SOP that expressed a really clear idea of what I want to do, why, and how that was realistic and well-matched (but not overlapping) with researchers at each program. I struggled with writing my SOP and found the following advice from mentors helpful:
  • Cut all fluff. Don’t write anything about your life; write about research.
  • Communicate a strong idea of big-picture research questions you’d want to work on during your PhD and subsequent career.
  • Be clear about what you want to learn during a PhD in terms of content and methodology. Avoid writing as if you know everything about your discipline already. Be humble.
  • Be clear about what you want to learn from each POI you identify in your SOP and how your interest complements and extends their work.

I'm not sure if I missed a question anyone asked in there... let me know if you have more. It seems l come off as a bit of an expert on MPH admissions, but I promise you, I am in no way an expert on PhD admissions. But I'm happy to talk about my experience. There's not a whole lot out there on public health PhD admissions here or on GradCafe, so I might as well create that content for others.

This is fantastic, thank you!

 

[Memm77]

Hello my friends

1-The level of certainty:
about the PhD intention, as you may know, I’m an MD who really loves Mathematics, and Biostatistics, even more than Epidemiology and Medicine! At the moment, because I was undecided between PhD and Medical Residency, so I decided to apply for a masters degree. But if want to do a PhD, I prefer to shift from Epi to Bios! (I donno how much it is possible regarding prerequisite credits) I think Bios will provide more opportunities of working in the industries and statistical positions. In addition, to my knowledge, Bios has higher average salary, is it correct?

2-MPH Vs MS:
In my viewpoint, the name of the degree doesn’t matter, but the curriculum, practicum and thesis are more important. In some schools like UMich and UMN which don’t have MS degrees, their MPH is more heavily research-based than an MPH in JHU, GW or BU--more practical ones.

3- Cheapest vs the most prestigious:
I think in the case of PhD intention, having the least possible loan would be more reasonable compared to the scenario of MPH as a terminal degree. So I think a mediocre option would be the best!

4- Connections:
In my opinion, making connections at a mid-tier university with a smaller cohort size is not only easier, but also more effective on getting accepted to their PhD programs.
Furthermore, I think if we have intention for Phd, alignment of research interests will be more important for us compared to a student with a terminal degree intention.

I’m really happy for being a member of your sophisticated community, and will be more happy to see you soon somewhere in person

 

[Memm77]

Wellllll since y'all asked and I'm just sitting here refreshing my application portals for my remaining schools anyway...

I applied to 5 behavioral science programs and 1 social epi program. I think epi is a different and more competitive beast than behavioral. I am not sure how much my advice will translate, but here it is!

• I don’t think where you get your master’s is as important as what you do during it. Research is what matters. If you’re just plowing through coursework and doing a typical internship at JHU, that’s going to look worse than getting RA experience, completing a thesis, and getting your name on a few papers at Large State School.
• I was certain I hated research when I started my MPH. I’ve done a complete 180. So, be open to changing your mind about what you want to do and keeping your options flexible.
• I don’t think MS vs. MPH vs. MSPH really matters all that much, at least not in behavioral science. Again, the important thing for PhD admissions is research experience. MPH programs vary wildly in how much research experience students typically get; MS and MSPH less so. I honestly think I’ve gotten more research experience in my MPH degree at Brown than people I know in Brown’s Epi ScM because that’s what I’ve prioritized.

Here’s what I think made it possible for me to go from “I hate research” to getting into some really solid PhD programs:

• Mentorship during my MPH. I took a research methods class first semester (to get that requirement out of the way), and the professor took an interest in me because we shared interests within public health and I was performing well in the class. He pulled me onto several projects the spring, I worked with him over the summer, and I’ve been basically a pseudo-PhD student (attending his advisee meetings, collaborating on papers, etc.) with him this year. He also wrote me a killer LOR.
• Using classes to my advantage. I took a lot of research methods classes to make up my gaps since I had no research experience before my MPH. These classes were more challenging than content classes and usually had term projects attached that, if students wanted, could be publishable papers. I’ve submitted one paper from a class to a journal as first author and will have 2 others in addition to my 2 thesis papers and a couple conference abstracts before I graduate. This wouldn't have been possible if I did an MPH program with lots of required content classes or an inflexible structure.
• Writing an SOP that expressed a really clear idea of what I want to do, why, and how that was realistic and well-matched (but not overlapping) with researchers at each program. I struggled with writing my SOP and found the following advice from mentors helpful:
  • Cut all fluff. Don’t write anything about your life; write about research.
  • Communicate a strong idea of big-picture research questions you’d want to work on during your PhD and subsequent career.
  • Be clear about what you want to learn during a PhD in terms of content and methodology. Avoid writing as if you know everything about your discipline already. Be humble.
  • Be clear about what you want to learn from each POI you identify in your SOP and how your interest complements and extends their work.

I'm not sure if I missed a question anyone asked in there... let me know if you have more. It seems l come off as a bit of an expert on MPH admissions, but I promise you, I am in no way an expert on PhD admissions. But I'm happy to talk about my experience. There's not a whole lot out there on public health PhD admissions here or on GradCafe, so I might as well create that content for others.

WoooW, Perfecttt as always! You’re the bible of Public Health I wish I had a mentor like you from my childhood ) Thanks a lottt for your great inputs.

 

[keeks23]

First, thank you so much for conceptualizing and creating this thread! I think it will be extremely useful in the coming months when we all make our decisions on which program to attend. I agree with what everyone has said thus far about factors to consider and to prioritize for MPH/MS/MSPH programs in order to be a competitive PhD applicant in the future. For me, research is my top priority. I also have made clear goals for myself in my program to be involved in various research projects and publish "x" amount of publications, which I have voiced to respective programs.

Personally, I began by mapping out different course scenarios for each program I applied to so I could easily compare the differences. I found this to be really helpful since I learned a couple of programs actually offer very few selections in quant or make you choose between two over conflicting scheduling or too heavy of a course load. Something to consider if your PhD program requires pre-reqs or "highly prefers" certain coursework.

Also, I perused faculty members' CVs who I am interested in working for at various programs. They usually have them listed as a link on their school profile page. I realized some actually had completely different interests demonstrated by their recent research, a lack of of recent research in the field, or in one case it was a perfect match! The perfect match is a professor at Emory, who I spoke with over the phone, but also plan to introduce myself in person at the research fair.

Another factor I have found to be related to high PhD admissions is the school itself having a PhD program. Not to say you would necessarily attend the same school for both programs, but I think it provides a role model of sorts and the faculty is better prepared to help you apply when the time comes.

The last thing that I highly value is a collaborative, small - medium cohort. I feel like supportive peers and mentors make a difference in school and if the cohort is too large, you just become a number, and too small runs the risk of limitations. This is my own preference obviously.

 

[flawedmph]

First, thank you so much for conceptualizing and creating this thread! I think it will be extremely useful in the coming months when we all make our decisions on which program to attend. I agree with what everyone has said thus far about factors to consider and to prioritize for MPH/MS/MSPH programs in order to be a competitive PhD applicant in the future. For me, research is my top priority. I also have made clear goals for myself in my program to be involved in various research projects and publish "x" amount of publications, which I have voiced to respective programs.

Personally, I began by mapping out different course scenarios for each program I applied to so I could easily compare the differences. I found this to be really helpful since I learned a couple of programs actually offer very few selections in quant or make you choose between two over conflicting scheduling or too heavy of a course load. Something to consider if your PhD program requires pre-reqs or "highly prefers" certain coursework.

Also, I perused faculty members' CVs who I am interested in working for at various programs. They usually have them listed as a link on their school profile page. I realized some actually had completely different interests demonstrated by their recent research, a lack of of recent research in the field, or in one case it was a perfect match! The perfect match is a professor at Emory, who I spoke with over the phone, but also plan to introduce myself in person at the research fair.

Another factor I have found to be related to high PhD admissions is the school itself having a PhD program. Not to say you would necessarily attend the same school for both programs, but I think it provides a role model of sorts and the faculty is better prepared to help you apply when the time comes.

The last thing that I highly value is a collaborative, small - medium cohort. I feel like supportive peers and mentors make a difference in school and if the cohort is too large, you just become a number, and too small runs the risk of limitations. This is my own preference obviously.

Very useful advice regarding mapping out the coursework!

I identified a few POIs during the MPH application process but I definitely need to start contacting them to set up chats, as you have.

Also, you have awesome stats; you should be so proud of yourself! My undergrad GPA is unfortunately quite poor due to a lack of direction in college and multiple screw ups. I'm hoping that success in graduate coursework could compensate for a lower uGPA. However, UNC (my top and also cheapest option at the moment) does not have graded graduate coursework. You get either a High Pass, Pass, Low Pass, or Fail. I'm wondering if this would be seen as a detriment by other programs if I'm unable to move on to a PhD at UNC. Have you spoken to programs about how they view undergraduate GPAs? Or if anyone else could chime in and offer advice, that would be great!

 

[keeks23]

Very useful advice regarding mapping out the coursework!

I identified a few POIs during the MPH application process but I definitely need to start contacting them to set up chats, as you have.

Also, you have awesome stats; you should be so proud of yourself! My undergrad GPA is unfortunately quite poor due to a lack of direction in college and multiple screw ups. I'm hoping that success in graduate coursework could compensate for a lower uGPA. However, UNC (my top and also cheapest option at the moment) does not have graded graduate coursework. You get either a High Pass, Pass, Low Pass, or Fail. I'm wondering if this would be seen as a detriment by other programs if I'm unable to move on to a PhD at UNC. Have you spoken to programs about how they view undergraduate GPAs? Or if anyone else could chime in and offer advice, that would be great!

Thank you so much! Such a kind complement. And don't be so quick to downplay your successes, graduating from an Ivy League is a major accolade.

I don't know how admission committees weigh undergraduate grades, but I would think they would focus on graduate coursework. I wouldn't lose sleep over it - focus your energy on what you can do in your MPH program

As far as the grading system at UNC, I know Yale has the same grading system, which doesn't hurt your chances of being admitted to a PhD program. Everyone in the field knows UNC's rigor, so I would imagine they would look at a high pass as an A. That being said, I don't know for your situation if a traditional GPA system would work better in your favor. I am interested to hear back other's commentary on this, too!

 

[EFpubhealth2019]

Loving this thread already!

I'm an RA now and extremely sure that I want to go on to get my PhD, based heavily on the awesome work that my PIs are doing right now. It's probably worth mentioning that I do work at UNC, although in the School of Medicine not the School of Public Health. So if anyone has general questions about UNC/the town of Chapel Hill I'd be happy to answer them.

Edit to answer a question about UNC's grading system: I did take an Epidemiology class here at UNC last summer and got a grade of "H", which I included on my applications. No one has asked me about this, and there was even a place to put the "H" in SOPHAS, so I think that this grading system is fairly well understood in the field. The class was also a great experience! Tough but manageable with lots of support.

Having worked in research, I will share one piece of advice that my mentors, supervisors, and colleagues have all said: Do not accept a PhD that you have to pay for. I have honestly been told this by so many people. Therefore, I'm willing to take a more expensive Masters program with the understanding that I will only accept a PhD program later down the road that is fully funded (even if that takes longer than I'd prefer).

I do have one big question that I'd like to seek opinions on: I've been accepted into two programs at JHU (Mental Health and Health, Behavior, and Society) which I'm just over the moon about. However, I'm still waiting to hear back from UNC about being accepted into their MPH-to-PhD combined program in Health Behavior. I've been told directly by UNC that the process for acceptance into the combined MPH-to-PhD is basically identical to the process of getting accepted into the PhD alone, i.e., fewer spots available, a rigorous selection process, required mentor matching, etc. Both JHU and UNC have some amazing PIs who I'd love to work with, and both have a focus in the area I'm interested in (youth mental health, violence, and risk behaviors) although I'd say that JHU is a bit stronger in this area. My question is, if I get accepted to UNC's combined program, should I choose it over JHU? Would choosing JHU be like throwing away a sure-fire PhD opportunity?

 

[flawedmph]

Loving this thread already!

I'm an RA now and extremely sure that I want to go on to get my PhD, based heavily on the awesome work that my PIs are doing right now. It's probably worth mentioning that I do work at UNC, although in the School of Medicine not the School of Public Health. So if anyone has general questions about UNC/the town of Chapel Hill I'd be happy to answer them.

Edit to answer a question about UNC's grading system: I did take an Epidemiology class here at UNC last summer and got a grade of "H", which I included on my applications. No one has asked me about this, and there was even a place to put the "H" in SOPHAS, so I think that this grading system is fairly well understood in the field. The class was also a great experience! Tough but manageable with lots of support.

Having worked in research, I will share one piece of advice that my mentors, supervisors, and colleagues have all said: Do not accept a PhD that you have to pay for. I have honestly been told this by so many people. Therefore, I'm willing to take a more expensive Masters program with the understanding that I will only accept a PhD program later down the road that is fully funded (even if that takes longer than I'd prefer).

I do have one big question that I'd like to seek opinions on: I've been accepted into two programs at JHU (Mental Health and Health, Behavior, and Society) which I'm just over the moon about. However, I'm still waiting to hear back from UNC about being accepted into their MPH-to-PhD combined program in Health Behavior. I've been told directly by UNC that the process for acceptance into the combined MPH-to-PhD is basically identical to the process of getting accepted into the PhD alone, i.e., fewer spots available, a rigorous selection process, required mentor matching, etc. Both JHU and UNC have some amazing PIs who I'd love to work with, and both have a focus in the area I'm interested in (youth mental health, violence, and risk behaviors) although I'd say that JHU is a bit stronger in this area. My question is, if I get accepted to UNC's combined program, should I choose it over JHU? Would choosing JHU be like throwing away a sure-fire PhD opportunity?

Hey fellow North Carolinian! I live and work in Durham!

In response to your question: I would definitely attend UNC's combined MS to PhD program if you know for sure that you want to get a PhD in Health Behavior. From my understanding, this program is fully funded and you would receive a stipend once you write your qualifying exams and begin the PhD portion of your studies. I could be wrong but I spoke to someone at UNC about this and this is what I was told! I was also considering JHU for my MPH but an 11-month program does not seem like it would give me enough time to establish connections that could help me down the road when I apply for my PhD. Not to mention, the cohort size at JHU is much larger so I may not have as much face time as I would want. May I ask what other programs you've been accepted to so far?

Re: GPA - I'm confident I can get H's while at UNC but since SOPHAS displays your undergraduate GPA right next to your graduate GPA and there would be no indication of H's in your GPA "summary," I'm wondering if it would look bad to have a 3.06 next to uGPA and nothing next to my graduate GPA. Like if adcoms would just look at this one bit immediately and throw my application out. Unfortunately, I've heard that PhD admissions are not as holistic so I'm pretty worried about my numbers I'm also considering taking a few undergrad classes while at UNC to try and increase my uGPA even a little.

Ugh I'm probably (definitely) overthinking the grades thing though and letting my anxiety get to me.

 

[armchair_cosmonaut]

Re: GPA - I'm confident I can get H's while at UNC but since SOPHAS displays your undergraduate GPA right next to your graduate GPA and there would be no indication of H's in your GPA "summary," I'm wondering if it would look bad to have a 3.06 next to uGPA and nothing next to my graduate GPA. Like if adcoms would just look at this one bit immediately and throw my application out. Unfortunately, I've heard that PhD admissions are not as holistic so I'm pretty worried about my numbers I'm also considering taking a few undergrad classes while at UNC to try and increase my uGPA even a little.

Ugh I'm probably (definitely) overthinking the grades thing though and letting my anxiety get to me.

I have not applied to PhD programs, but my assumption is that public health PhD programs are familiar with the non-letter grades system of many master's programs and take that into account (or rather, don't hold it against you). If there is something on your transcript that shows success in classes, or you have letters of rec/research/projects that can show that you can handle the coursework, that's probably sufficient to satisfy the "can this candidate succeed in PhD coursework" part of the review process.

 

[flawedmph]

I have not applied to PhD programs, but my assumption is that public health PhD programs are familiar with the non-letter grades system of many master's programs and take that into account (or rather, don't hold it against you). If there is something on your transcript that shows success in classes, or you have letters of rec/research/projects that can show that you can handle the coursework, that's probably sufficient to satisfy the "can this candidate succeed in PhD coursework" part of the review process.

Great points, thanks!

 

[MuppetLord]

Hey, team! I just spoke about graduate school selection with a professor who got their epidemiology doctorate from Harvard. While their advice is not the end-all be-all, it was certainly useful for me:

1. Public health PhD programs strongly prefer applicants who have a masters (MPH/MSPH/MS) in a public health discipline. This demonstrates that you have adequately explored your discipline to make an informed decision on pursuing a PhD.
2. Since a masters is typically a sort of prereq to your PhD application, admissions committees are much more interested in your masters academic performance and extracurriculars. While admissions will see your undergraduate performance, your masters is seen as much more important in determining your success in doctoral study. So do not despair if you are not satisfied with your undergraduate GPA!
3. Where you receive your masters does not matter as much as you think. What does matter is the mentorship and the research experience you receive between the start of your masters and the time you apply to PhD programs. MAKE SURE THE INSTITUTION IS DOING RESEARCH IN YOUR FIELD OF INTEREST! If you find a quality mentor who aligns with your interest and will heavily vouch for your candidacy, you have a shot at any of the top-notch program like Hopkins and Harvard.
4. Public health is not the most financially lucrative field. In order to make an informed decision on your graduate education, be sure to politely, and directly, ask admissions offices for additional funding opportunities if the cost of attendance seriously impedes your ability to attend their institution. If you were fortunate enough to have received merit or need-based funding from another school, it is worth communicating that the reality is that the vast majority of us will be going into considerable debt for our masters and that funding is an issue. Worst case scenario is that the school says that policy prohibits them from awarding additional funding. Best case is that they are able to revise your reward offer. It is always worth asking (politely)!
5. Visit your top choice schools and speak with their students whenever possible! The academic atmosphere of an institution can definitely sway your decision to attend.

I know this post reiterates a lot of the advice given by other awesome participants of this thread. Hearing this from a professor helped curb some of the anxiety of choosing the "right" program.

I am interested in conducting research on mHealth and its ability to provide medical attention to underserved international communities. If I want to get a PhD along the lines of this work, my professor advised me to strongly consider Hopkins and Emory, both of which conduct research on mHealth. Even though WashU would be my most affordable option, it unfortunately does not hold my direct research interests.

 

[EFpubhealth2019]

Hey, team! I just spoke about graduate school selection with a professor who got their epidemiology doctorate from Harvard. While their advice is not the end-all be-all, it was certainly useful for me:

1. Public health PhD programs strongly prefer applicants who have a masters (MPH/MSPH/MS) in a public health discipline. This demonstrates that you have adequately explored your discipline to make an informed decision on pursuing a PhD.
2. Since a masters is typically a sort of prereq to your PhD application, admissions committees are much more interested in your masters academic performance and extracurriculars. While admissions will see your undergraduate performance, your masters is seen as much more important in determining your success in doctoral study. So do not despair if you are not satisfied with your undergraduate GPA!
3. Where you receive your masters does not matter as much as you think. What does matter is the mentorship and the research experience you receive between the start of your masters and the time you apply to PhD programs. MAKE SURE THE INSTITUTION IS DOING RESEARCH IN YOUR FIELD OF INTEREST! If you find a quality mentor who aligns with your interest and will heavily vouch for your candidacy, you have a shot at any of the top-notch program like Hopkins and Harvard.
4. Public health is not the most financially lucrative field. In order to make an informed decision on your graduate education, be sure to politely, and directly, ask admissions offices for additional funding opportunities if the cost of attendance seriously impedes your ability to attend their institution. If you were fortunate enough to have received merit or need-based funding from another school, it is worth communicating that the reality is that the vast majority of us will be going into considerable debt for our masters and that funding is an issue. Worst case scenario is that the school says that policy prohibits them from awarding additional funding. Best case is that they are able to revise your reward offer. It is always worth asking (politely)!
5. Visit your top choice schools and speak with their students whenever possible! The academic atmosphere of an institution can definitely sway your decision to attend.

I know this post reiterates a lot of the advice given by other awesome participants of this thread. Hearing this from a professor helped curb some of the anxiety of choosing the "right" program.

I am interested in conducting research on mHealth and its ability to provide medical attention to underserved international communities. If I want to get a PhD along the lines of this work, my professor advised me to strongly consider Hopkins and Emory, both of which conduct research on mHealth. Even though WashU would be my most affordable option, it unfortunately does not hold my direct research interests.

This is very helpful! I'm also struggling with the affordability-versus-opportunity question. What program are you leaning towards?

 

[EFpubhealth2019]

Hey fellow North Carolinian! I live and work in Durham!

In response to your question: I would definitely attend UNC's combined MS to PhD program if you know for sure that you want to get a PhD in Health Behavior. From my understanding, this program is fully funded and you would receive a stipend once you write your qualifying exams and begin the PhD portion of your studies. I could be wrong but I spoke to someone at UNC about this and this is what I was told! I was also considering JHU for my MPH but an 11-month program does not seem like it would give me enough time to establish connections that could help me down the road when I apply for my PhD. Not to mention, the cohort size at JHU is much larger so I may not have as much face time as I would want. May I ask what other programs you've been accepted to so far?

Re: GPA - I'm confident I can get H's while at UNC but since SOPHAS displays your undergraduate GPA right next to your graduate GPA and there would be no indication of H's in your GPA "summary," I'm wondering if it would look bad to have a 3.06 next to uGPA and nothing next to my graduate GPA. Like if adcoms would just look at this one bit immediately and throw my application out. Unfortunately, I've heard that PhD admissions are not as holistic so I'm pretty worried about my numbers I'm also considering taking a few undergrad classes while at UNC to try and increase my uGPA even a little.

Ugh I'm probably (definitely) overthinking the grades thing though and letting my anxiety get to me.

It's great to "meet" you neighbor!

I've heard so many great things about UNC HB, so if I do get in it's going to be an extremely difficult choice. I have heard about people getting fully funded for the MPH-to-PhD but it seems like some of this comes from scholarships while some comes from grants and RA/TA positions, so I definitely don't want to rely on that until I have an award letter for sure.

I only applied to UNC, Harvard, and JHU. My research interest is a bit narrow (youth violence and risk behaviors, specifically related to gang exposure, education, and poverty) so these were the programs that interested me the most. JHU seems like the strongest of the three in this area (they do a ton of research working directly with kids in Baltimore public schools which is basically my dream research), with UNC a close second (they seem to do less hands-on research), and Harvard lagging behind in this topic. I've only been accepted to the programs at JHU so far, and am leaning toward Mental Health. I interviewed with UNC at the end of January and it went well, they said I'd know in late Feb/early March. Radio silence from Harvard but word on the street is that decisions are being released as we speak. Cue anxiety x10.

 

[flawedmph]

It's great to "meet" you neighbor!

I've heard so many great things about UNC HB, so if I do get in it's going to be an extremely difficult choice. I have heard about people getting fully funded for the MPH-to-PhD but it seems like some of this comes from scholarships while some comes from grants and RA/TA positions, so I definitely don't want to rely on that until I have an award letter for sure.

I only applied to UNC, Harvard, and JHU. My research interest is a bit narrow (youth violence and risk behaviors, specifically related to gang exposure, education, and poverty) so these were the programs that interested me the most. JHU seems like the strongest of the three in this area (they do a ton of research working directly with kids in Baltimore public schools which is basically my dream research), with UNC a close second (they seem to do less hands-on research), and Harvard lagging behind in this topic. I've only been accepted to the programs at JHU so far, and am leaning toward Mental Health. I interviewed with UNC at the end of January and it went well, they said I'd know in late Feb/early March. Radio silence from Harvard but word on the street is that decisions are being released as we speak. Cue anxiety x10.

Best of luck I'll probably end up going to UNC for HB so maybe we'll run into each other in class!

 

[MuppetLord]

This is very helpful! I'm also struggling with the affordability-versus-opportunity question. What program are you leaning towards?

I'm glad it helped! I'm leaning toward Hopkins due to its strong international network and emphasis on collaborating with other institutions. Since mHealth and telemedicine are emerging technologies, I think it would be beneficial to collaborate with entrepreneurs and professionals of other disciplines which may be better served by the Hopkins name. But I still have to attend the admitted students days!

Hope that Harvard and UNC get back to you with favorable news!

 

[MPH1985]

Shoutout to RTP! A few thoughts I'd like to reiterate:

1. Directly chat with your doctoral program chair and with professors you want to work with. When decision time comes, many departments will meet as a group to weigh candidates, so in-person or over the phone conversations (outside of interviews) are particularly important. Apart from a prior masters and a strong SOP, your impression makes the biggest difference.

2. Please please do NOT leave your PhD program with more debt than when you entered. Remember - you will have a life after school, so plan now. Talk to current students about how they are getting their degree paid. Many programs have restrictions on working side gigs while being a TA/RA.

 

[wwmmkk]

1. Directly chat with your doctoral program chair and with professors you want to work with. When decision time comes, many departments will meet as a group to weigh candidates, so in-person or over the phone conversations (outside of interviews) are particularly important. Apart from a prior masters and a strong SOP, your impression makes the biggest difference.

I actually don't think this matters as much as people make it out to online, or maybe as much as it once did. I contacted professors in advance at only half of the programs I applied to this cycle, and there ended up being no correlation between doing so and getting in or getting an interview. I would say the major exceptions are if you are unsure if a professor is open to taking PhD students that cycle or if they are planning to stay at that institution for the next 4+ years-- you don't want to waste your application fee.

Just wanted to disagree a bit because this was something that really stressed me out during the application process that didn't need to.

 

[JDGBruin1317]

I know we're discussing PhDs but I've been thinking about striving for a DrPH in the next few or so years after I get my MPH. As for now, I'm am seeing the MPH as my terminal degree but the thought of possibly moving on to a DrPH in Healthcare Management Leadership or Public Health Informatics is definitely up in the air and not something I'm closed off to pursuing, but the main thing I'm worried about is funding.

 

[flawedmph]

I know we're discussing PhDs but I've been thinking about striving for a DrPH in the next few or so years after I get my MPH. As for now, I'm am seeing the MPH as my terminal degree but the thought of possibly moving on to a DrPH in Healthcare Management Leadership or Public Health Informatics is definitely up in the air and not something I'm closed off to pursuing, but the main thing I'm worried about is funding.

Very cool! I don't know much about the DrPH degree but know it's the terminal degree for those interested in public health leadership outside of academia (mainly). Although I've also seen a ton of DrPHs on faculty pages. Is a DrPH not fully funded like most PhD programs?

 

[JDGBruin1317]

Very cool! I don't know much about the DrPH degree but know it's the terminal degree for those interested in public health leadership outside of academia (mainly). Although I've also seen a ton of DrPHs on faculty pages. Is a DrPH not fully funded like most PhD programs?

I'm actually not sure. I know John Hopkins don't provide financial assistance for their Dr.PH programs. I might message certain schools and inquire if they provide fully funded scholarships for DrPH programs.

If I have to take even one loan for a DrPH program, I will most likely just stick with my MPH.

 

[#notadoctor]

Hi! I was wondering about people's thoughts on going straight from an MPH into a PhD versus getting some job experience? Though I guess if you're certain about going into research then job experience doesn't necessarily help with future career stuff compared to publishing, other than if you need to beef up your application for a higher ranked PhD program? Thanks!

 

[flawedmph]

Hi! I was wondering about people's thoughts on going straight from an MPH into a PhD versus getting some job experience? Though I guess if you're certain about going into research then job experience doesn't necessarily help with future career stuff compared to publishing, other than if you need to beef up your application for a higher ranked PhD program? Thanks!

Hey! I don't think it's super necessary to get job experience between getting your MPH and PhD. Of course, having job experience post-undergrad or post-grad could only work in your favor (if you're in the field). But as long as you have made an effort to get relevant research experience during undergrad or grad school, I think that's sufficient. I know people (and people who know people) who went straight from undergrad to MPH to PhD. So it can definitely happen!

 

[#notadoctor]

I was actually on a different thread in the MPH forum boards(?) and someone mentioned it can actually be harder to find time to get back to a PhD program once you start working in the field too

 

[armchair_cosmonaut]

I was actually on a different thread in the MPH forum boards(?) and someone mentioned it can actually be harder to find time to get back to a PhD program once you start working in the field too

Not to mention the difficulty of giving up a paycheck from an actual job to go back to living on 30k/year, lol!

I think field/work experience has been very beneficial for master's admissions, but I don't personally plan on taking a gap between an MPH and PhD.

 

[wwmmkk]

As someone who just went through the application process, I can say applying to PhDs while finishing my MPH was so much easier than applying for my MPH while I was working full time. Since I have a network of advisers here, it's been much easier to ask for and follow up on rec letters, get advice about where to apply and who to apply to work with, and in general just get support around the process. There are also plenty of PhD students around to give their perspectives on the process. When I was applying to MPH programs, I literally just had this forum to guide me.

On the other hand, I think I'd recommend against going right from undergrad to MPH to a PhD? It's certainly possible, but I'm just thinking about formative the years I took between undergrad and my MPH were to becoming a functional adult. I think when people spend their whole lives in ~the academy~, it's easy to lose touch with reality. That's not a huge issue for a lot of academic fields, but I think in public health it's very important to understand and have some lived experience regarding the health issues you want to work on. Also, grad school is hard-- not just intellectually, but mentally and emotionally. Thinking back to what I train wreck I was for the first few years after undergrad, I'm glad I'll be starting my PhD at 28 instead of 22. But that's obviously a very subjective experience.

 

[flawedmph]

As someone who just went through the application process, I can say applying to PhDs while finishing my MPH was so much easier than applying for my MPH while I was working full time. Since I have a network of advisers here, it's been much easier to ask for and follow up on rec letters, get advice about where to apply and who to apply to work with, and in general just get support around the process. There are also plenty of PhD students around to give their perspectives on the process. When I was applying to MPH programs, I literally just had this forum to guide me.

On the other hand, I think I'd recommend against going right from undergrad to MPH to a PhD? It's certainly possible, but I'm just thinking about formative the years I took between undergrad and my MPH were to becoming a functional adult. I think when people spend their whole lives in ~the academy~, it's easy to lose touch with reality. That's not a huge issue for a lot of academic fields, but I think in public health it's very important to understand and have some lived experience regarding the health issues you want to work on. Also, grad school is hard-- not just intellectually, but mentally and emotionally. Thinking back to what I train wreck I was for the first few years after undergrad, I'm glad I'll be starting my PhD at 28 instead of 22. But that's obviously a very subjective experience.

Totally! I took almost 5 years off between undergrad and my MPH and I have so much more direction now than I have ever had in the past. A lot of which can be attributed to having a full-time job.

 

[dubbz09]

Great thread!! (How am I just stumbling across this?!)

I'm actually not sure. I know John Hopkins don't provide financial assistance for their Dr.PH programs. I might message certain schools and inquire if they provide fully funded scholarships for DrPH programs.

If I have to take even one loan for a DrPH program, I will most likely just stick with my MPH.

Just wanted to let you know that I'm with you on this!