Mph

[Cerberus]

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I am thinking about applying to an MPH program. Can anyone tell me about the competitiveness of these programs, which schools have good programs, etc etc. I really dont know where to start looking (aside from a few MPH programs web pages) so any information would be appreciated.

thanks

 

[Califlower]

Hey! I was exploring the same options as you've been doing... There is scant info on public health, although it is such a big field. Go to: http://www.asph.org/ it is association of schools of public health. They give you a good survey of what's out there. Hope that helps.

 

[indigoblue]

one question that most mph programs ask applicants is: what is your intent? and relate that information to your past, present, and future aspirations.

 

[Cerberus]

Originally posted by indigoblue
one question that most mph programs ask applicants is: what is your intent? and relate that information to your past, present, and future aspirations.

is it harmful to say you plan on applying to medical school?

 

[exmike]

I got my MPH at Cal, and it's only helped my medical school apps immensely. Considering my very poor ugrad GPA, I've been really successful after my MPH.

The top MPH programs have pretty high average GPA's. At Cal, it was a 3.5. Of course, your GRE counts, so that can mitigate a lower GPA. I think for most top MPH programs you'll want a middle 3's GPA.

The great thing about many graduate programs it that they take your junior senior GPA. Since I did a lot better my last two years, my GPA applying to public health school wasn't that bad.

I would contact each individual school for brochures, they often list the average GPA's and GRE scores in the literature.

When you're applying, you should have some idea of why you want a degree in public health. Also be aware of the numerous disciplines, as they vary a lot in their scope, focus, and purpose.

I definitely encourage people to go the MPH route to strengthen their applications as it will make you a more understanding student of medicine, and open your eyes to many health issues facing the world today that can make you a much more well-rounded applicant.


PM me if you guys have questions.


edit: I should add that public health schools are very interested in yoru purpose for applying, so sincere interest in a field of public health can really offset poor grades, especially if you have done things to show your committement to public health.

Some people will disagree, but I definitely wouldnt mention that you are using the MPH to get in medical school UNLESS the program is tailored for that purpose.

 

[DW]

cerb, you need to IM me, mofo 😉

 

[DrMom]

Originally posted by Cerberus
is it harmful to say you plan on applying to medical school?

it shouldn't. It would be good to have some explanation of how you see your MPH being used when you are a physician, though.

 

[indigoblue]

no it doesn't hurt to say that you plan on applying to medical school... but it does look kinda fishy.... try to picture it from the mph admissions committee...

i'm not saying you should lie and say you only want to get an mph and work in public health... but it wouldn't be wise to write a personal statement that says i just want to be a doctor...

 

[exmike]

I'm not sure what kind of schools you guys applied to, but U Mich and Harvard specifically warned applicants about using the MPH so they could get into medical school. I've had this confirmed by other people that applied to those schools as well. If you're going to mention it, you better be sure you have a good reason. Otherwise, I'd be safe about it.

I'm sure everyone has their opinions, but it that a risk you're willing to take?

Originally posted by indigoblue
no it doesn't hurt to say that you plan on applying to medical school... but it does look kinda fishy.... try to picture it from the mph admissions committee...

i'm not saying you should lie and say you only want to get an mph and work in public health... but it wouldn't be wise to write a personal statement that says i just want to be a doctor...

 

[DrMom]

I definitely wouldn't even hint that I was interested in the MPH to improve my chances of getting into med school. I do think it is fair, however, to acknowledge that you intend to go to med school and explain how the MPH will be important for you in your practice.

 

[exmike]

THAT I definitely agree with.

Originally posted by DrMom
I definitely wouldn't even hint that I was interested in the MPH to improve my chances of getting into med school. I do think it is fair, however, to acknowledge that you intend to go to med school and explain how the MPH will be important for you in your practice.

 

[wow]

Hi,

I think that what the others have said is very true, in that you should not specifically state that you are using a graduate program (whether it be MPH, MS, etc..) to become a more competative med school applicant. However, why would this be the case anyway? If this is your SOLE purpose in pursuing a MPH, my advice is to go for a post-bac. Some things to consider is that many graduate programs require you to write a thesis, take the GRE (although some will take the MCAT), and if you are not truly interested in PH, you will be forced to take courses for 1-2 years that you are not interested in (that you might have to pay for if you aren't funded). Additionally, if you are not really interested in PH you are going to end up struggling 2 years later when you are writing your AMCAS essay, explaining why you went to grad school.

Regarding admissions:

Luckily, many of the same experiences that make you a good pre-med make you a good candidate for MPH programs (research, experience in a health related field, volunteer work). However, many of these programs are competative numbers-wise also and force you to compete for spots with people that already have their MD, med students, people interested in the PhD track, and public health professionals going back for more school. On that note, some schools actually have pre-professional tracks that are for people that are more just out of undergrad or lacking experience, and you may want to look those up.

In my own experience, I wrote in my admissions essay that I planned on attending medical school and how a MPH would factor into my future career goals and it worked out just fine (including U Mich, although I chose not to go there). It is recognized that we need young professionals interested in MD/MPH! You might just want to mention that you are aware that there are many routes to MD/MPH (MPH before med school, during med school, after med school during fellowship or beyond are all feasible options), and that you are ready to pursue the MPH now.

Also, as exmike said, BE AWARE that there are numerous departments within a school of public health (epi, biostat, health services, etc..), and you should write in your goal statement why you want to study that one specifically.

Other questions to ask while contacting the admissions offices? I would ask about funding, as at most places you can have your tuition paid through an RA/TA position or etc... Nice to not go into debt if you are planning to go for the MD...

Good luck!

 

[lola]

from my experience it is not that hard to get into mph programs. because i had no idea of the competiveness of my application, i applied to 8 schools. i got into 5 of those programs with a 3.7something gpa from a well-respected undergrad and decent (but by no means phenomenal) gre scores.
you should know that some programs want you to have worked in the field for at least a couple of years -- university of washington specifically comes to mind. i would not mention using it as a stepping stone to med schools if you are applying to top programs. most top schools are looking for public health researchers, not premeds.
in terms of what schools have good programs. in part that depends on what you want to specialize in (e.g. infectious diseases, maternal and child health, biostats, etc...). you will really have to research each particular school to find out and it is pretty hard to find that out as an applicant. i wish i could help more on that. maybe if you tell us what schools you are interested in, people can share their experiences with that particular school. you can also look at the u.s. news rankings to get a general idea of the reputation of schools of public health.

 

[Cerberus]

Originally posted by DW
cerb, you need to IM me, mofo 😉

you need to be on aim foo

 

[Cerberus]

Currently these are the programs I have looked at:

Yale
Tulane
UofM
Emory

I really like Tulanes tropical medicine program, so I think I will definitely apply there if i decide to apply to an MPH program instead of medschool.

Do any of you have any experience with these schools?

also, to those of you who got an MPH - why did you do it? How do you think it will benefit you as a doctor? How much did it help when applying to medical school?

 

[Zweihander]

I'm working on an MPH now, and I think it's absolutely fascinating. One of the most interesting things about a public health education is that it teaches you about the trajectory of the field of medicine, which is of course emminently relevant if you're going to be a doctor. I'm learning about forces affecting health care that I never would have imagined, and seeing how the field has been developing over the years is giving me a sense of perspective that I really appreciate.

Even if you never "apply" it, I think a public health background can only help you if you're going to be a physician.

 

[Street Philosopher]

UCLA and UC Berkeley are great places to get an MPH. LA County's health system is so incredibly fvcked... that would be an awesome learning experience. LA has a huge indigent population, as does Berkeley, so there's a lot of opportunities for public health research and stuff.

 

[exmike]

I didnt apply to anything ranked below the UC's, so I only know about Michigan. The HPM program at UM requires an interview, so you really have to know your stuff if you plan on going there. They'll see right through you during the interview if you're not serious about public health. Yale, until recently, was Ph.D. only so I'd investigate their program further. They didn't have a non-professional MPH three years ago. I plan on going into primary care, and knowledge about the epidemiological, environmental, economic, and social factors affect health and health status will surely help me. How it will help you as a physician also depends on what concentration you go into. Infectious disease might be more useful than maternal and child health, for example. Its amazing how different some public health tracts are from each other.

As for getting in medical school, it has helped me enormously. Most interviewrs are excited that I have my MPH, and they see it as something special I can bring to the class. They also see it as affirmation of my committment to community health a la primary care.


edit: if you are from california, definitely apply to the UC's. If you're not, you still should consider them. They're great programs.

Originally posted by Cerberus
Currently these are the programs I have looked at:

Yale
Tulane
UofM
Emory

I really like Tulanes tropical medicine program, so I think I will definitely apply there if i decide to apply to an MPH program instead of medschool.

Do any of you have any experience with these schools?

also, to those of you who got an MPH - why did you do it? How do you think it will benefit you as a doctor? How much did it help when applying to medical school?

 

[calebho501]

I can only say a bit about UCLA and Emory's MPH programs.

UCLA's MPH program is very huge, you can choose from areas such as Epidemiology, community health, biostatistics, etc. as concentration. Again, because of the diverse patient population at LA, there are opportunities to work on issues such as cultural competency of medical staff, health education for minority population, etc.

Emory's MPH program is also very good. Because of proximity to CDC, American Cancer Society, the Carter Center, and other charity organization, there are many outside internship opportunities. Actually I think at least 2-3 out of 60 internship spots at CDC are RESERVED for Emory students. Emory's School of Public Health has a very new building, and because the program is fairly new (Started less than 15 years ago I think), there is flexibility to choose different classes to fulfill your requirements. Again, you can concentrate in areas such as international health, environment health, health policy and management.

 

[DW]

anyone have any questions about emory's mph program, just pm me...since i am an alum of the program 🙂

 

[LUBDUBB]

I think one should do an MPH only if you are interested in it. If your purpose is to offset your poor undergrad gpa, then I wouldn't go the MPH route. I would do a 'hard science', as they say, Master's program - physiology comes to mind. If you have a bad undergrad gpa, you need to prove that you can handle grad level science classes - IMHO, an MPH will not prove that. Do the MPH if you have a genuine interest - you can do it before med school, MD-MPH program, or after med school. 🙂

 

[exmike]

Then again, I had a 3.01 science GPA and my MPH got me into four schools so far. And not just "low tier" ones either. I think it really depends on the specifics of your app. I think my strong science MCAT scores partially offset my low SciGPA, and then the MPH showed I could do well in school in general.

Originally posted by LUBDUBB
I think one should do an MPH only if you are interested in it. If your purpose is to offset your poor undergrad gpa, then I wouldn't go the MPH route. I would do a 'hard science', as they say, Master's program - physiology comes to mind. If you have a bad undergrad gpa, you need to prove that you can handle grad level science classes - IMHO, an MPH will not prove that. Do the MPH if you have a genuine interest - you can do it before med school, MD-MPH program, or after med school. 🙂

 

[sgilani]

anyone know anything about the program at columbia?

 

[LUBDUBB]

Originally posted by exmike
Then again, I had a 3.01 science GPA and my MPH got me into four schools so far. And not just "low tier" ones either. I think it really depends on the specifics of your app. I think my strong science MCAT scores partially offset my low SciGPA, and then the MPH showed I could do well in school in general.

True, but the general premed population (on average) is not going to have the kind of mcat scores you have. I'm saying if you have a 3.0, and average mcats, you would be better off proving your ability by taking an upper science masters.

 

[Heal&Teach]

Originally posted by Cerberus
Currently these are the programs I have looked at:

Yale
Tulane
UofM
Emory

I really like Tulanes tropical medicine program, so I think I will definitely apply there if i decide to apply to an MPH program instead of medschool.

Do any of you have any experience with these schools?

also, to those of you who got an MPH - why did you do it? How do you think it will benefit you as a doctor? How much did it help when applying to medical school?

I also got my MPH from UM, and I found the program to be great. My interests lie in Health Behavior/Health Education versus Health Management or Epidemiology, and thus my experience is moreso with the social, behavioral, and environmental aspects of health and health care. I intend on a career in primary care as well, so these aspects of the curriculum have been very important in my personal development and understanding of the interactions between public health and medicine as a whole. Public health, as a field that concentrates its efforts more globally, allows you to see the impact of background factors that contribute to health disparities and the incidence of preventable disease.

I have known many people who bridged to medical school through an MPH program, most doing more "hard science" coursework (i.e., epidemiology - hospital and molecular concentration, environmental health), as well as some folks majoring in policy, health administration, and health behavior/education.

You should definitely be honest about your intentions to pursue a career in medicine, and as someone has already mentioned, be sure about why you're going b/c you will be questioned about it. But don't think completely that a Master of Public Health will be your big ticket in to medical school.

While some programs favor additional experience beyond undergrad (esp. where there is demonstrated academic improvement), getting an MPH may be detrimental if you rely too heavily on it. Some medical schools are familiar with the game, so be careful not to go in to an interview thinking that you're a "shoo in", because some folks have been there/done that already. MPHs are becoming more common everyday, and that unique factor that separates you from other premeds in the same category is becoming increasingly thinner. If you do choose public health, make your experience count - try to do international work, or something that will give you practical experience, versus sitting in a classroom for two years.

I do advocate for getting an MPH; in fact, I think that all physicians should be educating in the principles and practices of public health (the system seems to be moving toward this model again, as it was it was in the past). Many medical programs have incorporated basic biostatistics and/or epidemiology courses in their curricula. Just remember that public health is still a distinct field from medicine, and if you're going to pursue this degree, do it with some intent that you will use it in the future. Otherwise, I agree that a science masters (esp. one that incorporates research) would be the best bet since bench/clinical research is highly regarded at most schools.

If you have any specific questions about the UM MPHprogram, feel free to PM or e-mail me.

 

[turkdlit]

Anyone out there an alum from the Columbia, GWU, or Hopkins MPH programs? How competitive are these schools in their admissions?

 

[exmike]

Columbia and JHU are far more competitive than GW. I got into columbia (and JHU MHS) but opted for a UC due to costs. JHU tends to only take professionals into their MPH program (i.e. 2+ years health related work). Columbia doesn't require 2 years work experience.

 

[greenie8]

PM if you have questions about JHU MHS. I finished it last year.

I also got into the MPH programs at Yale, BU and Columbia so I can tell you a little bit about those.

I stayed at JHSPH for a number of reasons not only b/c it's #1.

greenie

 

[turkdlit]

exmike and greenie, I pmed both of ya, thanks for the help!

 

[Heal&Teach]

Originally posted by turkdlit
Anyone out there an alum from the Columbia, GWU, or Hopkins MPH programs? How competitive are these schools in their admissions?

GW is not a hard program to get in to.. and caters mainly to professionals (i.e. many classes are at night)...and you can network with many professionals (doctors, nurses) who will try to talk you out of going to medicine.. (I have a friend in the program who is conveniently going into nursing on the advice of some older docs andnurses).

 

[r3kapur]

Hi,

Most of this thread has focused on how an MPH could be applied to the medical field.

But what other job opportunities exist? From those who have completed an MPH, what could you do with it if you didn't go on to become a physician?

cheers.

 

[Heal&Teach]

Originally posted by r3kapur
Hi,

Most of this thread has focused on how an MPH could be applied to the medical field.

But what other job opportunities exist? From those who have completed an MPH, what could you do with it if you didn't go on to become a physician?

cheers.

A recent article documented the lack of state-level trained epidemiologists... as the true public health scientists, epidemiologists are in high demand. Bioterrorism/Emergency Preparedness is also a growing field in public health, and many positions are opening in this area as well.

Depending upon your experience and interests, you can become a health educator, health adminstrator, work in policy/advocacy, become an environmental health specialist, do research at the governmental level or for a NGO (non-government organization)... the list goes on and on. For a more comprehensive list of jobs that could possibly be attained in public health, I would suggest that you take a look at Emory's Rollins School of Public Health site where the Public Health Employment Connection (PHEC) is housed (http://www.sph.emory.edu, then go to "student services" on the sidebar and click on PHEC).

 

[exmike]

Honestly, that question is far to broad given the multitude of public health concentrations. It really depends on what your public health interests are.

This is what I usually tell people in terms of getting into a high paying career with a MPH:

Just about the only MPH concentration that will land you big dollars in the job market is in health policy and management. I know many people that did HPM and came out with close to six figure salaries in health care consultant firms, insurance firms, or hospital management positions. A MPH in HPM is similar (i stress similar) to a MBA if your focus is soley on health administration. That probably explains why many MPH'ers get paid like MBA's. For example, there is an internship offered by Genentech for UC Berkeley HPM students, and it pays $5,500/mo during your internship. You can extrapolate that to guess how much you'll make as a full time, non intern.

As for the other disciplines, many go on to work for county health systems as statisticians or epidemiologists. Many go on to work for drug companies to run studies. Some go into public health labs. Others go into policy making. You should ask these kinds of questions of the schools you are considering.

I'll paraphrase what my professor used to say to us: None of you are here at the school of public health because you want to get rich. You are all bright students and have the ability to live a good lifestyle. However, you've decided that there is a moral imperative within you to improve the health of others, and because of that you are willing to do so despite the fact that you might never be rich.

Most people go into public health because they feel a social obligation. Not many people get rich off a public health degree, but you'll probably be able to get a job that assures you a decent lifestyle.

As the other poster pointed out, epidemiology/biostatistics is always in demand.

Originally posted by r3kapur
Hi,

Most of this thread has focused on how an MPH could be applied to the medical field.

But what other job opportunities exist? From those who have completed an MPH, what could you do with it if you didn't go on to become a physician?

cheers.

 

[Cerberus]

Thanks for all the information people🙂

Just to clear something up though, I dont have a poor gpa (i think its around 3.7-3.8). It's more that I just dont know that I am ready for medical school and think that doing a program in international health, epidemiology, or tropical medicine could benefit me by enchancing my application and as a physician in the future (especially since I want to do international medical work).

 

[r3kapur]

Hi,

Wow this info. is great! Ok... well so where should I start?

I'm a canadian applicant. I won't have any public health experience (only experience working in biochem labs). I am considering doing an internship next year working with HIV/AIDS in Africa. But otherwise I won't have anything on my resume public health related.

Which US programs are geared to non-health professionals? Are programs specialized, or is it like an MBA where you start generalized and specialize in the second year? I really don't know where to start to find out what area I am most interested in, and solidify why I would really want to enter the field. I could look at school websites, but I feel like that would only give me info. on what they offer rather than why I would want to do what they offer.

But after reading that quote from the prof... it exemplifies me.

 

[Cerberus]

The UC Berkely program looks nice except that I am not sure if i'd be willing to live in cali.

 

[Kownell]

CAN anyone say a little more about the Johns Hopkins MHS program?
How do medical schools view this program?

 

[greenie8]

Kownell,
I have an MHS from JHSPH. So far in interviews I've still had to explain what it is. Basically people ask why I didn't get an MPH. I think people hear "masters from JHSPH" and they're pretty impressed anyways.

PM me and I can tell you more if you'd like.

greenie

 

[LUBDUBB]

Cerebrus thanks for clarifying your situation. I say you should apply MD-MPH programs, that way you do the MPH and you get a tution break.

 

[Cerberus]

Originally posted by LUBDUBB
Cerebrus thanks for clarifying your situation. I say you should apply MD-MPH programs, that way you do the MPH and you get a tution break.

Well, here is my reasoning.

Right now I dont have a very spectacular application (my EC's are pretty weak). So the way I see it is that I could probably apply now and get in somewhere or wait till after I get an MPH and have a decent shot at the schools i'd like to attend (namely UofM).

 

[superdevil]

here's a somewhat different question: recently, i've been exploring the plethora of dual degree opportunities and reading this thread made me wonder if, using them for roughly the same applications, there is a visible advantage for having the MPH (focusing on health policy and management) as opposed to the MD/MBA or even the MD/JD degrees?

any thoughts??

 

[Adcadet]

see sig

 

[Adcadet]

a thread on this topic from the way back...

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49027&highlight=bacc

 

[metabolite]

I got my MPH from Columbia and it was the best thing I ever did. Faculty there are personable and knowledgeable, they try to help you get as much opportunities as possible. I got to work in my adviser's lab and was hired in a major pharmaceutical company as a scientist even before my graduation. My other friends now work as hospital policy makers or insurance managers, EPA (don'tk now exactly what they do) or have gotten into medical school without even retaking MCAT (29).

 

[sgilani]

exmike... you said you got into the columbia program... which dept did you apply for b/c i went to an open house last week and some depts are stricter about the 2 yr work experience than others.

btw, this thread is great. i'm applying to mph programs right now and i need all the help i can get. keep it coming.

btw cerebrus... if you're interested in tropical medicine... the london school of hygiene and tropical health offers mphs with a gazillion different concentrations and it's known to be the top school in europe for public health.

 

[exmike]

i applied for the Evironmental Health program. I had 1 yr work experienc, not public health related. If you look at the columbia MPH curriculum, its flexible enough so that you can take enough courses outside your concentration to get a 'de facto' dual concentration. or just about.

 

[Winston Smith]

do you guys know which schools help out with tuition if you're an RA or TA or anything like that? private schools are way too costly.

UC Berkeley and UCLA offer TA tuition waivers.

Boston University offers to pay almost 8 credits if you work full time.

any others?

 

[Adcadet]

Originally posted by Winston Smith
do you guys know which schools help out with tuition if you're an RA or TA or anything like that? private schools are way too costly.

UC Berkeley and UCLA offer TA tuition waivers.

Boston University offers to pay almost 8 credits if you work full time.

any others?

University of Minnesota lets MPH students get RA/TA-ships to pay for tuition. In fact, the grad assistantship doesn't even have to be in the School of Public Health, which is nice when you're at a large research university.

The pay is $13.11 minimum (some depts, like pharm, start out at $20). Tuition benefits max out at around $3600/semester, and that is for somebody working 20 hours/week. So if you have a grad assistantship, you pretty much go to school for free. And you get a pretty good health insurance plan, too.

Rumor on the street is that U fo Michigan does NOT allow it's MPH students to hold grad assistantships. Can any of the Michigan people clarify?

 

[Heal&Teach]

Originally posted by Adcadet
Rumor on the street is that U fo Michigan does NOT allow it's MPH students to hold grad assistantships. Can any of the Michigan people clarify?

Ah... a rumor indeed...

There are some students that do indeed hold graduate assistantships and TA UM undergrad courses. Some grad assistantships receive a 25% appointment (10-hour work expectation per week), while some provide a full tuition waiver regardless of residency, a monthly stipend, and full coverage health insurance. Some students also serve as Assistant Hall Directors, and if you can stomach living in the dorms, you get free room/board plus a stipend.

Some departments may not advocate for their students doing grad assistantships due to workload, but on the whole, the school suggests GA/RA positions as a great way to fund your graduate education.

 

[r3kapur]

Hi,

I'm a canadian interested in US MPH programs. From what I've read, many programs are post-professional and look for students with a wide-range of work experience who are a bit older.

I will be graduating with a bachelors in april. I do have work experience since I was in a coop education program.

What schools are known to accept students who may be fresh out of undergrad?