MS/Ph.D vs Pharm.D

[jgdsn316]

Hi all.

Okay, so I am in a unique situation.

I was awarded a scholarship that would cover all of my Master's degree as well as all of my PhD if I should choose to go on to graduate school. However, I am currently in Pharmacy school (P1) year at a school that charges around ~32k p/year, which I would have to "take out in loans every year should I choose to continue. I have to make my decision about whether to continue P2-P4 years or apply/enter grad school this year because I will no longer be eligible to use the scholarship after this year ends.

That being said, I am sure you can understand the difficulty of my situation. I have participated in research a few times during my undergrad career and really do enjoy the laboratory and would love a teaching/research position. If I were to pursue a PhD, it would definitely be in the Biomedical sciences. However, I have also volunteered in the hospital pharmacy and enjoy that environment as well.

I understand each decision has its own pros and cons, but would like honest opinions about each route, as taking out over 120k in loans is really not all that appealing to me anyways. Thank you very much!

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[rxlea]

I'm confused. You have not applied to a PhD program but were awarded a scholarship?

What if you don't get in?

Or, do you have the option of doing a dual degree? Is this a state school? I've never known of a school that doesn't fund their PhD students. Wouldnt you NOT have to pay for it anyway?

Also, if you're a PharmD student, where did the other scholarship come in?

 

[pharmdpharmd]

Personally, I will take the ms/phd route. Don't get me wrong, I love being a pharmacist, but I feel so restricted by the loans. And based on my experience getting a hospital pharmacist job is pretty hard in a major metro area even if you are a bright student with involvement in the pharmacy world and a nice CV and internship experience in a hospital as a student (hard, not impossible though). Now, maybe a teaching position would be harder, but I wouldn't know that.

Maybe everything will change in a couple of years for the better or the worse. So really there is no rational way to figure it out. You just have to go with your heart, and for me, my heart definitely say teaching with no loans.

 

[jgdsn316]

Sorry, for clarification, I won the scholarship in HS and it also covered my entire undergrad degree. I entered Pharm School bc the 1st year is still considered part of the undergrad degree program here at my school. It's like a transitional program so I'm still eligible for this year only.

 

[rxlea]

Sorry, for clarification, I won the scholarship in HS and it also covered my entire undergrad degree. I entered Pharm School bc the 1st year is still considered part of the undergrad degree program here at my school. It's like a transitional program so I'm still eligible for this year only.

So you did or didn't get accepted to the PhD program?

I mean are you guaranteed entrance?

 

[Ghibli]

I would choose the MS/PhD program if you have already been accepted into a program. You already enjoyed the laboratory work plus you would not have to worry about tuition.

 

[jgdsn316]

No, I am currently in the process of applying to a few MS/PhD Biomed Sci programs.

 

[rxlea]

No, I am currently in the process of applying to a few MS/PhD Biomed Sci programs.

Apply first and see if you get in. stay in the PharmD program until you get that acceptance letter from a PhD program. If you can pursue something you enjoy and come out with no debt, that's better. The road to teaching with just a PharmD will be much longer.

If/when you get accepted (I'm assuming this Spring) ditch the PharmD. Unless you can do a dual degree which gives more options.

It's harder to get into a PhD program than PharmD so keep that in mind....that's why I recommend waiting til you get accepted to abandon ship.

 

[mustang sally]

I have done both in my career (though I worked as a scientist with a master's, not a PhD). Here are some of my thoughts on the two career pathways.

Research Pros:
More fun and creative than pharmacy (IMO)
You come out of school with less debt/debt-free

Research Cons:
The field is even more saturated than pharmacy. It's hard to get a job.
Salaries vary a lot but I would say on average, a pharmacist will make more than a PhD.
Time period until you graduate is ill-defined.
Keep in mind that the vast majority of PhDs go on to do post-docs...basically these are low paying training positions the scientist does while they are looking for a "real" job...and this can and does go on for years at a time.

Pharmacy Pros:
As long as you pass all of your classes, you definitively know when you will graduate.
Well-paid position with generally good benefits
Can be enjoyable if you find the right job for you
You get to play a role in patient care

Pharmacy Cons:
Massive student loan debt
Most jobs are in the retail field (granted this will be a pro for people who enjoy retail, personally I do not)
Saturation of the job market

I would say neither job gives you much flexibility anymore in where you wind up due to saturation of both fields, so be prepared for the likelihood of having to move for a job. Hope this helps you! Since you are young and just starting out, you could always shoot for a PharmD/PhD!

 

[notafraid87]

You have to love research for phd. Did you enjoy it during undergrad? Do you like to try out creative experiments and write grant proposals/paperwork frequently? If not, don't do the phd. There's always the industry option, but not many are being hired, thanks to the economic recession.

For the safe route, pharmacy. At least you get a license after completing a pharmacy degree, although the 32k + expenses should give you something to think about. Nonetheless, it all comes down to research. Find threads/posts by Chemguy...he gave us some great advice on this situation.

 

[pharmogenome]

I thought I might chime in here with some points that haven't already been made. I am about to start (hopefully) the last semester of my PhD work in chemistry. I am applying to pharmacy school now and hope to attend next fall. I know it's cliche, but I had thought since graduating high school that I would "love a teaching/research position" as the OP said, so my decision to change paths has been a painful one.

My reasons for changing my mind:
1. the academic work environment. There is not really a nice way to say this, so I'll just say it: the majority of professors that I have met/worked with are raging egomaniacs. I think that this is not something you really see through the experience of undergraduate education. However, it does come out once you get into the big-competition-to-prove-that-you're-smarter-than-everyone-else that we call "science."

2. family considerations. The saturation in the academic job market has already been correctly noted. I laugh when I hear about "10-12 pharmacists applying for the same job!" If you want a tenure-track faculty position, try 300. At least. This means that competition is very stiff. People now have to spend a lot more time doing postdoctoral research to get publications to compete for research professor positions. So you'd be looking at 5-6 years to get the PhD, then 3-6 years of postdoctoral work (which could involve cross-country moves to available positions) before you can APPLY for a permanent job. If you were to somehow magically land one, the race for tenure is a grueling one. Several years of 80-hour weeks would probably get you to the end. Maintaining relationships during that time is a challenge. Having children during that time? I don't think that I would be able to care for my son the way that I need to on that path.

Finally, it seems that the OP feels some time pressure due to the impending loss of a scholarship. I think that this is probably not necessary. Essentially all science PhD programs in the U.S. are fully funded for your entire time in the program. You get full tuition paid and a stipend through research and teaching assistantships. Going into a PhD program just to keep a scholarship wouldn't make any sense.

My advice to the OP, if he/she really wants to do research is to pursue it through the pharmacy track. There are research fellowships that you can do post-graduation that will give you very similar research experience to what you would get from a PhD program. This will be unlikely to lead to a tenured faculty position, but you would be hunting unicorns there anyway. It could lead to research in industry though (although a lot of that is being shipped overseas right now), or a more academically-oriented pharmacy job (such as drug information specialist).

 

[Tinkerbell22]

I thought I might chime in here with some points that haven't already been made. I am about to start (hopefully) the last semester of my PhD work in chemistry. I am applying to pharmacy school now and hope to attend next fall. I know it's cliche, but I had thought since graduating high school that I would "love a teaching/research position" as the OP said, so my decision to change paths has been a painful one.

My reasons for changing my mind:
1. the academic work environment. There is not really a nice way to say this, so I'll just say it: the majority of professors that I have met/worked with are raging egomaniacs. I think that this is not something you really see through the experience of undergraduate education. However, it does come out once you get into the big-competition-to-prove-that-you're-smarter-than-everyone-else that we call "science."

2. family considerations. The saturation in the academic job market has already been correctly noted. I laugh when I hear about "10-12 pharmacists applying for the same job!" If you want a tenure-track faculty position, try 300. At least. This means that competition is very stiff. People now have to spend a lot more time doing postdoctoral research to get publications to compete for research professor positions. So you'd be looking at 5-6 years to get the PhD, then 3-6 years of postdoctoral work (which could involve cross-country moves to available positions) before you can APPLY for a permanent job. If you were to somehow magically land one, the race for tenure is a grueling one. Several years of 80-hour weeks would probably get you to the end. Maintaining relationships during that time is a challenge. Having children during that time? I don't think that I would be able to care for my son the way that I need to on that path.

Finally, it seems that the OP feels some time pressure due to the impending loss of a scholarship. I think that this is probably not necessary. Essentially all science PhD programs in the U.S. are fully funded for your entire time in the program. You get full tuition paid and a stipend through research and teaching assistantships. Going into a PhD program just to keep a scholarship wouldn't make any sense.

My advice to the OP, if he/she really wants to do research is to pursue it through the pharmacy track. There are research fellowships that you can do post-graduation that will give you very similar research experience to what you would get from a PhD program. This will be unlikely to lead to a tenured faculty position, but you would be hunting unicorns there anyway. It could lead to research in industry though (although a lot of that is being shipped overseas right now), or a more academically-oriented pharmacy job (such as drug information specialist).

I agree with this post. I know the loans are scary, but at least with a PharmD you have the option to work in retail or somewhere else if you can't get a permanent position in research or teaching. There have been times when I regret not doing a dual degree program at my school, but we have professors who are part of the clinical faculty and they are PharmDs (no PhD). If you want to teach and don't really care about the research, you can always get your masters and apply for community college positions as well (you still might need a PhD at some schools though I'm guessing)? I'm not really sure what the market is like for these positions either, but it's an option you can research. I still think the PharmD is the best option. If your first year is paid for, do you know if your school offers a dual degree where you can get your PhD as well? I'm pretty sure at my school, our last year's tuition is covered, and we get an extra off-block during rotations to work on PhD stuff. That way, you will be in significantly less debt than most Pharm D students.