ms1 grades

[ms1guru]

I have just finisehd my first year and am a little depressed. i worked very hard and was only able to pull off 1 high pass and the rest of my classes were just passes. Our school has an H HP P F system. The thing that hurts most is that I was within HP for all my classes by just a percentage point or so. So even though I did above average in all my classes, I will still be ranked most probably in the bottom half of my class. All my friends that I studied with ended up doing better. I was merely a couple questions away from the higher grade which is very defeating to me.

I am sure I am not the only student this happens to but it has been very tough on my for the last couple of days. I blame this on my test taking abilities and bad decision making during the test. I studied very hard and don't think i could put any more preperation in than what I did. I have a bad feeling the same will happen to me in STEP I, where I will not do well because I don't have the test taking abilities, and will make the wrong decision everytime. If there is anything I can do to improve my test-taking abilities please let me know! thanks in advance.

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[rachmoninov3]

I don't know anything that you can do to improve your test taking abilities, but you should be thrilled to be done with first year and have passed everything!
If you are interested in a competitive field, then I'd stop looking so much at class rank/grades during the first two years and look at research, Step 1, and other things you can do to 'be competitive.'

It's frustrating to think that grades don't count, especially when they tell you it's pass fail, then they give you this P, HP, H system, then the main university calculates you GPA! I'm hoping for an "Oustanding" this block so I can make up for the "Satisfactory" grade the first block and bring myself up to a solid GPA of "Good" for the first year.

Oh and throw back a cold one for me, as I still have 2 weeks left in first year!

 

[Noeljan]

I have just finisehd my first year and am a little depressed. i worked very hard and was only able to pull off 1 high pass and the rest of my classes were just passes. Our school has an H HP P F system. The thing that hurts most is that I was within HP for all my classes by just a percentage point or so. So even though I did above average in all my classes, I will still be ranked most probably in the bottom half of my class. All my friends that I studied with ended up doing better. I was merely a couple questions away from the higher grade which is very defeating to me.

I am sure I am not the only student this happens to but it has been very tough on my for the last couple of days. I blame this on my test taking abilities and bad decision making during the test. I studied very hard and don't think i could put any more preperation in than what I did. I have a bad feeling the same will happen to me in STEP I, where I will not do well because I don't have the test taking abilities, and will make the wrong decision everytime. If there is anything I can do to improve my test-taking abilities please let me know! thanks in advance.

How are you studying? Also, Don't change your first answer (something I learned 1st hand Also, if you are doing above average I don't think you will be ranked at the bottom of your class. Schools that I have heard of that rank (on P/HP/H ) type system seem to still use a percentage overall (if they rank at all). It would only be fair that someone who is getting 83's on everything over someone with consistent 66's besides one H, etc. So keep your head up!!!
ps congrats!!! we finished MS

 

[njbmd]

I have just finisehd my first year and am a little depressed. i worked very hard and was only able to pull off 1 high pass and the rest of my classes were just passes. Our school has an H HP P F system. The thing that hurts most is that I was within HP for all my classes by just a percentage point or so. So even though I did above average in all my classes, I will still be ranked most probably in the bottom half of my class. All my friends that I studied with ended up doing better. I was merely a couple questions away from the higher grade which is very defeating to me.

I am sure I am not the only student this happens to but it has been very tough on my for the last couple of days. I blame this on my test taking abilities and bad decision making during the test. I studied very hard and don't think i could put any more preperation in than what I did. I have a bad feeling the same will happen to me in STEP I, where I will not do well because I don't have the test taking abilities, and will make the wrong decision everytime. If there is anything I can do to improve my test-taking abilities please let me know! thanks in advance.

First of all, resist the urge to compare yourself with your study mates. It's your performance that you have control over and what your study mates do or do not do is likely not to help you in this situation.

You say that you were "merely a couple of questions" from a higher grade yet, you didn't do much about correcting what you needed to correct in order not to miss those "couple of quesitons". A good strategy now would be to review some of your tests with the instructor and try to figure out why you are missing those questions.

The next thing that you want to do is stop trying to blame your performance on any test on poor test taking abilities. Self-labeling can become self-fulfilling. You can just as easily say to yourself, "while my test taking skills have not been strong in the past, I can learn some techniques right now that will improve them." You can likely use some of your summer to work on your test taking skills since you have some time before you have to worry about Step I.

I know that is difficult but you have to replace the negative voices in your head with solutions to your problems. At this point, you have so much more medical school in front of you than behind you so this can be a summer of change. Start with your thinking process and follow with actions. Enlist the help of your medical school Dean who may know some programs that you might be able to take while you are off from school.

Finally, rankings are becoming less and less important in terms of evaluation of medical students. You have passed all of your courses and have earned a high pass in one so you are definitely ahead of those folks who didn't pass everything and did earn any high passes.

You also have the prospect ahead of you of having a very strong third year and getting some honors in your clinical work. A strong third year can greatly move you up in any rankings and looks quite impressive on an residency application.

Recap:

• Test taking skills can be learned, so learn them.
• Resist fixing blame and comparing yourself to others. You will always come up short when you do this.
• If you are passing every course in medical school, you are definitely ahead of the game. This is the nature of professional school and why professional school performance is evaluated differently from undergraduate and high school performance.

 

[Dedikated2liftn]

I have just finisehd my first year and am a little depressed. i worked very hard and was only able to pull off 1 high pass and the rest of my classes were just passes. Our school has an H HP P F system. The thing that hurts most is that I was within HP for all my classes by just a percentage point or so. So even though I did above average in all my classes, I will still be ranked most probably in the bottom half of my class. All my friends that I studied with ended up doing better. I was merely a couple questions away from the higher grade which is very defeating to me.

I am sure I am not the only student this happens to but it has been very tough on my for the last couple of days. I blame this on my test taking abilities and bad decision making during the test. I studied very hard and don't think i could put any more preperation in than what I did. I have a bad feeling the same will happen to me in STEP I, where I will not do well because I don't have the test taking abilities, and will make the wrong decision everytime. If there is anything I can do to improve my test-taking abilities please let me know! thanks in advance.

As a previous poster hinted at it sounds more like an issue of self-confidence than anything else. You've gotten to this point for a reason (you're clearly not a dumba$$), so stop bashing your abilities. Additionally, there's nothing you can do about your first year grades; however, you've got the ability to improve from here on out. Furthermore, MS1 (or preclinical even) grades aren't even taken that highly into consideration for the match. Focus on getting some solid research in a field that you're interested in, kick the tits off the Step I (which entails having the confidence to not second guess your abilities), and worry about honoring in the rotations that are most specific to the field you wish to match into.

 

[TMP-SMX]

If you have the ability to be above average on all of your exams the difference between you and honors is probably 3+ hours of studying every day. It isn't worth it. Don't compare yourself to these people as you will probably self-destruct. Some of them study more than you and others may just know more. In the end, none of it matters. Do well on Step I.

 

[Noeljan]

If you have the ability to be above average on all of your exams the difference between you and honors is probably 3+ hours of studying every day. It isn't worth it. Don't compare yourself to these people as you will probably self-destruct. Some of them study more than you and others may just know more. In the end, none of it matters. Do well on Step I.

The time spent studying may not be true. I know people who study all day every day vs people who study a few days before the test and the results are not always as you would think. It may be he/she is studyin the wrong way or testing the wrong way. For example, I have found if people waste too much time studying from the text books that may hurt their grades. Also, some people like to change answers on tests. It is very easy to get 5 wrong just this way (or more). I think the more you learn now and the more you work on your test taking skills the more likely you will be to do so on step 1. I may be wrong about that, but I it's what I think and have seen from people I know. In any event, the OP is not doing poorly but he/she would like to improve. Maybe he/she could ask fellow classmates at school that he/she knows is getting the grades he/she would like for some pointers.

 

[Law2Doc]

First of all, resist the urge to compare yourself with your study mates. It's your performance that you have control over and what your study mates do or do not do is likely not to help you in this situation.

Could not agree more. It's very "undergrad" of you to be so focused on grades and what everyone else got. You are here to be a professional, to learn as much medicine as you can, not to get a specific ranking. So keep your eyes on your own plate, and focus on the learning aspects, not the competition aspects. Because once you do this, you tend to do a lot better. Or you don't care as much if you do worse because you aren't pegging yourself to someone else. So either way it's win win. Med school is just a much better place when you have the right focus and get out of that undergrad mindset. Because come third year, when things really count, and suddenly you don't even see most of your classmates for months, you will realize you are evaluated on your own.

 

[elderjack21]

Could not agree more. It's very "undergrad" of you to be so focused on grades and what everyone else got. You are here to be a professional, to learn as much medicine as you can, not to get a specific ranking. So keep your eyes on your own plate, and focus on the learning aspects, not the competition aspects. Because once you do this, you tend to do a lot better. Or you don't care as much if you do worse because you aren't pegging yourself to someone else. So either way it's win win. Med school is just a much better place when you have the right focus and get out of that undergrad mindset. Because come third year, when things really count, and suddenly you don't even see most of your classmates for months, you will realize you are evaluated on your own.

Great post.

 

[farnsworth]

Law2Doc and njbmd had good posts.

The only thing I'd add is that what you accomplish should match your goals. Not everyone needs a 4.0/260.

That said, I'm of the opinion that you should always do your best. You never know what the future's going to bring, what you'll need for grades & performance & extracurriculars, etc. later down the road. You may fall in love with plastics, or want to match in a specific city to be near a significant other. Always do your best. If you don't feel like your test performances are reflecting your best effort & knowledge, make appropriate changes. It's not easy to look yourself in the mirror and say, "alright, this isn't getting it done. I need to make some changes to the way I do things" or ask for help, but you need to get practice with this attitude now, because you can't be immediately good at everything, especially in medicine. It's hard. It's supposed to be hard. That's why it takes so long. Why we all have to be teaching from each other and learning from each other all at once, at all times.

 

[LabMonster]

Could not agree more. It's very "undergrad" of you to be so focused on grades and what everyone else got. You are here to be a professional, to learn as much medicine as you can, not to get a specific ranking. So keep your eyes on your own plate, and focus on the learning aspects, not the competition aspects. Because once you do this, you tend to do a lot better. Or you don't care as much if you do worse because you aren't pegging yourself to someone else. So either way it's win win. Med school is just a much better place when you have the right focus and get out of that undergrad mindset. Because come third year, when things really count, and suddenly you don't even see most of your classmates for months, you will realize you are evaluated on your own.

Well said. Grades are the main objective measure that med-schools use to assess how much knowledge you've retained. A big problem of this method is simply that it's a game - those who play the game better will get better grades. So are better than others at honing in on what will be tested, taking tests, etc... So the objective measurement isn't so objective at determining the endpoint - how much you know.

I agree with others - do well on Step 1. I'm a living testament that your 1st two years may not correlate with board scores (fair grades, good score) but I knew that coming into med-school. I knew that I learn best by doing, then reading, i.e. the clinical years. Now in my third year, I'm doing very well, not only with evaluations, but I'm doing better on quizzes and tests (because the learning method lines up with my own.)

Don't beat yourself up. Maintain perspective - a pass means you know what you should in order to become a physician. High pass may just mean you'll forget more

 

[Dedikated2liftn]

Well said. Grades are the main objective measure that med-schools use to assess how much knowledge you've retained. A big problem of this method is simply that it's a game - those who play the game better will get better grades. So are better than others at honing in on what will be tested, taking tests, etc... So the objective measurement isn't so objective at determining the endpoint - how much you know.

I agree with others - do well on Step 1. I'm a living testament that your 1st two years may not correlate with board scores (fair grades, good score) but I knew that coming into med-school. I knew that I learn best by doing, then reading, i.e. the clinical years. Now in my third year, I'm doing very well, not only with evaluations, but I'm doing better on quizzes and tests (because the learning method lines up with my own.)

Don't beat yourself up. Maintain perspective - a pass means you know what you should in order to become a physician. High pass may just mean you'll forget more

Haha, nice perspective.

 

[alfonzarel]

even though I did above average in all my classes, I will still be ranked most probably in the bottom half of my class.

i think this is mathematically impossible.

 

[ms1guru]

Thanks for the advice guys. I'll get out of the "undergrad" mindset and move on. Any suggestions on how to improve my test taking skills. I've been working on trying to stick with my first answer and i don't know how successful that has been. Should I just make 1 run through the test and not checkover? I have picked some mistakes that made before when doing that so I don't know if I should focus on that.

If there are any online tools I can use or programs let me know. Again, Thanks for the replies guys, i really appreciate it. I'm over my grades from the last exam, just needed a couple days to clear my mind. And don't get me wrong, I am very glad I am passing everything and know I am lucky to be in the position I am. I just have the stupid competetive notion that i must get the higher grade.... and im sure im not the only med student with that mentality

 

[LabMonster]

AS far as test taking skills go, you should have a decent idea of how you take tests and how often your changes either lead to the the right change or the incorrect one.

If you choose to review your tests (which is NOT the way I take tests) make sure you have a very good, logical explanation in your mind as to why you are changing your answer. The "I think it might be this instead." reason sucks. The only reason I go back over an exam is if I've not answered something because I really have no good answer - but I've found that by reading over other questions that may trigger memories, I usually have a better answer later on.

In short, I go with my 1st answer unless I have a damn good reason to change it. If it's wrong, it wrong and your knowledge base was lacking, if you change the answer from correct to incorrect, then your decision making process is flawed. Better to have a sound decision process in place - knowledge is typically only a mouse click away. A screwy decision making process is going to lead to patient mismanagement down the line.

 

[Blesbok]

I love when schools say they are pass fail and then have h,hp,p,f just like a school with letter grades.


But back to the topic, there are three things this could mean:

a) you aren't putting enough effort into school
b) you need to rethink your study methods and revise them
c) H and HP just weren't meant to be, which in itself is ok. You may be less competitive for some of the top residencies, but it isn't going to ruin your life and you will still be a doctor and doing the things you enjoy and be doing better than most people in the world academically.

 

[DwyaneWade]

I love when schools say they are pass fail and then have h,hp,p,f just like a school with letter grades.


But back to the topic, there are three things this could mean:

a) you aren't putting enough effort into school
b) you need to rethink your study methods and revise them
c) H and HP just weren't meant to be, which in itself is ok. You may be less competitive for some of the top residencies, but it isn't going to ruin your life and you will still be a doctor and doing the things you enjoy and be doing better than most people in the world academically.

Good post.

However, I disagree about the top residencies comment. If you (OP) dedicate your time and effort to Step 1, and work hard in your rotations, most doors should be at least partially open to you. Preclinical grades are considered but are lower down the totem pole

 

[ms1guru]

Should I devote the rest of the summer to step 1 then? How should I approach this I feel like theres so much material that I learned in the last year i have no idea where to start. What study methods are useful in retaining more. Discipline and effort wise I think I put in what I should to do well, I just feel like sometimes even after going over stuff I don't retain as much as I should, or I just forget it a week later whcih ends up being the week of the test. And I remember going over the stuff during the test, just get tripped up on some details and can't remember the small details they test. I can narrow answers usually to 2 choices and then end up choosing the wrong one i guess.
I definitely learn the big concepts, just the small details that are tested trip me up and thats what is the difference between a pass and a high pass in my opinion.

 

[The Angriest Bird]

I know in some schools, even though the system is Fail/Pass/High Pass, the "database" still keeps everyone's numbers and the class rank is calculated based on that. It's very deceiving.

Make sure your school does or doesn't have that.

 

[Blade28]

I know in some schools, even though the system is Fail/Pass/High Pass, the "database" still keeps everyone's numbers and the class rank is calculated based on that. It's very deceiving.

Make sure your school does or doesn't have that.

I like how some schools say they don't rank their students (in order to foster a noncompetitive, healthy, non-cutthroat atmosphere)...but they have to report rank come AOA/MSPE time.

 

[ms1guru]

our school ranks based on p, hp, h. i am very sure of that. so if hp is at 87, an 86.9 student is ranked the same as a 70 student. sucks if your the 86.9 student o well maybe will get there next time.

 

[Blesbok]

Good post.

However, I disagree about the top residencies comment. If you (OP) dedicate your time and effort to Step 1, and work hard in your rotations, most doors should be at least partially open to you. Preclinical grades are considered but are lower down the totem pole

I agree. I am only saying "may be". He very well could revise his study routine and excel in second year and on the boards. It is never too late and a few bad grades in MS1 are not a reason to give up hope.

 

[DocYuki]

This has been an illuminating thread, and I am most thankful for it having come into existence! I finished MS1 at the same time ms1guru (OP) did, and my overall MS1 experience has been largely the same as his/hers. I had some stumbles led by some triumphs, and ended up getting through everything in the end (there were moments during both semesters of first year that I seriously questioned my outcome). Out of my stumbles came the development of study skills and "shaping up" that led to vast improvements and lots of learning about the way I work.

Hindsight is always 20/20, and you really do gain perspective later on that you don't at first, at least if you are like many of us and don't end up breezing though MS1. But the light at the end of the tunnel, from my POV, is that you learn a hell of a lot from this and improve, which can look great on your CV in the end. But more importantly, as it has been stated, MS1 grades are but one piece of the many pieces (most of which are weighted much more) of getting matched into your dream specialty.

My main concern is the same as the OP; that I may have trouble with Step I ... but reading responses, I think you guys are right. I hope to take this chance to improve myself and take control of Step 1 and the rest of my medical school career, for that matter. Thanks for the insight

Research has always been a bear for me. I did a lot of it as an undergrad and enjoyed it, though I wasn't ecstatic about it or anything. After the mind-numbing trip of first-year, I couldn't stand the thought of spending my only true summer within the ivory towers of academia again. So I took a summer internship through the school to get a lot of clinical experience at a local hospital. This has been a wonderful experience and has really worked to fill in gaps in my clinical exposure and prepare me for continuing clinical education in 2nd year and beyond.

25-33% of my class-mates are doing summer research and make a huge deal out of it; publications, etc. Are there clinical opportunities 4th year (electives, etc) that can help with the match? And I suppose research at all only depends on what specialty and at which program. If you are looking to match into a low to moderately competitive specialty at a decent (but not competitive) program, do you even need research? Thanks, everyone!

 

[drc243]

I had the same concerns as the OP as my 1st year went along and I have three simple comments

1) dont compare yourself to your classmates- its only going to make you depressed and unhappy. The only person that matters is you. We all are given different abilities by g-d (oh no he used the G word), to speak quite frankly you were dealt a very good hand. You are in an allopathic school and are doing very well considering you are almost near high pass. Some people have more g-d given abilities than others and i guarantee you that there are many people who do alot worse than you and put in the same effort. Its all relative. It took me six months to come to terms with this fact and I am very happy that I have.
2) Maybe it is best for you to only change answers on your tests if you made an error reading a question or simply marked the wrong bubble. If you were debating between two decent answers you should keep your original answer unless you grossly misread part of the question
3) Cheer up friend you are well on your way to fullfilling your dream. I am sure that you can find happiness outside of a derm, orthepedics, or some other crazy competitive residency. And if you really want one of the ROAD residencies i am sure great board scores, great rotation evaluations, and research will outweigh a decent first year performance.

best of luck,
dave

p.s. OP i missed one hp in a block by one multiple choice question and another high pass by two multiple choice questios.

 

[alfonzarel]

it's still legal to believe in and speak of God. it's still a free country... you might as well enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[Bubblehead-to-MD]

Just a couple of comments:


(1) If your school is like mine, the H/HP/P/F system assigns grades based on a normal distribution. H = >2 SD above the mean, HP = > 1 SD above the mean (but < 2SD), F = < 2SD below the mean. The rest = Pass. So, it is highly unlikely that your inability to achieve the HP grade on those few exams by a couple of points will result in your being ranked in the bottom 1/2 of the class. At worst, you will not find yourself in the top 16% of the class (everything below 1 SD encompasses ~84% of the area of the normal distribution).

So, it is definitely not as bad as it seems. These H/HP/P/F systems are really just designed to acknowledge exceptional performance - not to punish those that are average / slightly above average.

(2) While your pre-clinical performance does count for something (primarily in terms of AOA honors), this pales in comparison to Step 1 performance, clinical grades, research, and letters of recommendation. I would focus on obtaining a good fund of knowledge over the course of second year. All of the feedback I have seen states that this, above all else, is what will facilitate doing well on Step 1.

Stay motivated!

 

[LabMonster]

And I suppose research at all only depends on what specialty and at which program. If you are looking to match into a low to moderately competitive specialty at a decent (but not competitive) program, do you even need research? Thanks, everyone!

I skipped research my first summer. Relaxed and did lots of nothing (some review) but more nothing than something

I am currently doing research now - it's numbers research, but it still counts (esp if it is as big/good as I hope it to be.) I'm also in third year - so it's possible, but more difficult.

It's really up to you. I think doing research for a CV and not to add to our knowledge fund and/or for your own enjoyment is frankly, vain. Of course, the highly competitive specialties pretty much require it (but it doesn't sound like you are headed there.)

Do it if you are interested in the research!

 

[hb2998]

I skipped research my first summer. Relaxed and did lots of nothing (some review) but more nothing than something

Ditto. I really gotta get me something clinical to do before this summer is over.

OP: you're not alone on that boat .

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Aside: Sitting in the library reading Robbins path, with a couple people around me studying for the MCAT. I bet they have no idea how deep the rabbit-hole goes. Maybe they won't do well and be set free .