MSAR 2019 is out

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An update of the Wedgedawg tool can't come soon enough. Wow. 522?
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StanleyYelnats said:
Lol geez, 4.0/525 next yr boys
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Hopefully this years MSAR data is just so ridiculously high that it wards off a number of applicants and the overall application pool slips. Sure, top schools will get top-ier, but middle schools will get middle-ier too.
 
samualjhatfield said:
Hopefully this years MSAR data is just so ridiculously high that it wards off a number of applicants and the overall application pool slips. Sure, top schools will get top-ier, but middle schools will get middle-ier too.
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Do NOT underestimate the number of people who have the mindset of:
"I'll apply for ****s and giggles"
"You miss all the shots you don't take"
"You never know"
"A guy/gal can dream"
"I fit their mission"
It's my dream school

All verbatim SDN quotes.
 
samualjhatfield said:
Hopefully this years MSAR data is just so ridiculously high that it wards off a number of applicants and the overall application pool slips. Sure, top schools will get top-ier, but middle schools will get middle-ier too.
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So actually, the average accepted stats were still something like 3.77/511- same as last year. I personally think admissions competitiveness has plateaued (there’s really no way for a median MCAT to go above 522-523 unless class sizes go down) and considering the number of new schools opening, overall med school admissions may actually get easier.

But I agree that the highly in demand schools will only get more selective from here on out- they can afford to be.
 
Sophist said:
Hmm interestingly 90th percentile at Yale and WashU is 526
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Penn too. I imagine that this is because more people, including more top students, are taking the MCAT, keeping the distribution normal and raising the raw number of high scorers, but the number of seats at top schools remain constant (or are decreasing).
 
Makes you wonder, do you reckon the MCAT/GPA creep in the top schools will have a trickle down effect on the more average/low-tier schools?

Something like: Johnny who would've been competitive at NYU/Yale/WashU/etc. a few years ago gets pushed out by increasing competition/stats creep. Johnny decides to "settle" (for the lack of a better word) for a lower stat school. If there are enough Johnnys, then now Billy at that lower stat school gets pushed out, which then affects the Roberts at the schools statistically below, etc. Which means Borderline Bobby, who could've been a med student a few years back, now can't matriculate anywhere due to the top N% stat creep.

Y'all reckon this is likely?
 
ExistenceIsTorment said:
Makes you wonder, do you reckon the MCAT/GPA creep in the top schools will have a trickle down effect on the more average/low-tier schools?

Something like: Johnny who would've been competitive at NYU/Yale/WashU/etc. a few years ago gets pushed out by increasing competition/stats creep. Johnny decides to "settle" (for the lack of a better word) for a lower stat school. If there are enough Johnnys, then now Billy at that lower stat school gets pushed out, which then affects the Roberts at the schools statistically below, etc. Which means Borderline Bobby, who could've been a med student a few years back, now can't matriculate anywhere due to the top N% stat creep.

Y'all reckon this is likely?
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Nope, Bobby will now go to my school! Believe me, we'll take NYU's leavings.
 
ExistenceIsTorment said:
Makes you wonder, do you reckon the MCAT/GPA creep in the top schools will have a trickle down effect on the more average/low-tier schools?

Something like: Johnny who would've been competitive at NYU/Yale/WashU/etc. a few years ago gets pushed out by increasing competition/stats creep. Johnny decides to "settle" (for the lack of a better word) for a lower stat school. If there are enough Johnnys, then now Billy at that lower stat school gets pushed out, which then affects the Roberts at the schools statistically below, etc. Which means Borderline Bobby, who could've been a med student a few years back, now can't matriculate anywhere due to the top N% stat creep.

Y'all reckon this is likely?
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Maybe there's some very macroscopic shift, but there are enough people with bad school lists such that I don't envision this chain reaction happening. I imagine that there are gonna be more people with mid-level stats who "fall through the cracks" and don't get an A due to overshooting their school list.
 
Sophist said:
Hmm interestingly 90th percentile at Yale and WashU is 526
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Back to what they were at before. Prior to the MCAT change, they had 90ths at the top 0.1-0.2% (40-41). During the score update the AAMC collapsed a lot of the high end scores to be only one value on the new test (e.g. a 13-15 Verbal were all in the top 1%, and now the top 1% all get 132). So these schools actually had a brief dip in their extremes but are right back to their old levels of absurdity.
 
ginsengreset said:
I imagine that there are gonna be more people with mid-level stats who "fall through the cracks" and don't get an A due to overshooting their school list.
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What is more surprising (to me) is the number of applicants who under-shoot and fail to get in.
 
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I'm honestly SHOOKETH! But this is just the name of the game I guess. The stats are homogenizing with the incoming MCAT stats. It was honestly a GREAT time to apply to med schools right in the midst of the MCAT transition. Yikes...
 
Goro said:
Do NOT underestimate the number of people who have the mindset of:
"I'll apply for ****s and giggles"
"You miss all the shots you don't take"
"You never know"
"A guy/gal can dream"
"I fit their mission"
It's my dream school

All verbatim SDN quotes.
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You forgot to add:
"My life experience will make up for everything else"
"Everyone says I'm competitive" (input from people who are not doctors nor have ever applied to med school)
"My adviser told me [fill in something ridiculous every adviser has said ever]"
 
ExistenceIsTorment said:
But are Borderline Bobbys with low 3's GPA and below median MCAT considered NYU's leavings? I meant a trickle down effect of something like NYU -> Einstein -> ... -> "low tier"/unranked.
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I was thinking more 3.4/508+

Nationwide the stats are still holding steady, pretty much. The Philly Triplets haven't moved, upwards, for example, neither have Drexel/Albany class schools overall. I sense slight upward movement in the Emory/Keck/Hofstra class schools

At this point I'm seeing a race to the top. Perhaps there will be more fodder for state schools?
 
curbsideconsult said:
You forgot to add:
"My life experience will make up for everything else"
"Everyone says I'm competitive" (input from people who are not doctors nor have ever applied to med school)
"My adviser told me [fill in something ridiculous every adviser has said ever]"
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What do you think the "life experiences" they refer to are like? Are they genuinely respectable experiences like "poor ugrad performance due to working 30 hours a week, dropped out to serve, and came back to finish strong with a 4.0", or just something like "I was not motivated freshman/w/e years, but I had an aha! moment and now I am, and now I wanna go to your school!"?
 
ExistenceIsTorment said:
What do you think the "life experiences" they refer to are like? Are they genuinely respectable experiences like "poor ugrad performance due to working 30 hours a week, dropped out to serve, and came back to finish strong with a 4.0", or just something like "I was not motivated freshman/w/e years, but I had an aha! moment and now I am, and now I wanna go to your school!"?
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I can provide yu my experience I am banking on: First 60 credits were a 3.4 average all taken in a military context, next 12 credits were a 3.1 average when I had a newborn, next 50 credits have been 4.0 all the sciences while working with familiy and millitary obligations still.

I think those "Genuinely respectable experiences" are like military, peacecorps, Americorps, Olympics.
 
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Lucca said:
interested to see what NYU will look like in 2 yrs when the first class that applied knowing about free tuition is represented in the msar
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Shouldn’t that be next year? Since they announced it fairly early in the application season and a bunch of people probably sent in August apps (like me...)
 
ExistenceIsTorment said:
What do you think the "life experiences" they refer to are like? Are they genuinely respectable experiences like "poor ugrad performance due to working 30 hours a week, dropped out to serve, and came back to finish strong with a 4.0", or just something like "I was not motivated freshman/w/e years, but I had an aha! moment and now I am, and now I wanna go to your school!"?
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More like the latter.
 
Holy hell. Not applying to any top 50, but this still scares me.
 
gyngyn said:
What is more surprising (to me) is the number of applicants who under-shoot and fail to get in.
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I know someone who was a marine, had a 4.00 GPA, and a 515 MCAT. He only applied to two mid-tier schools because his wife just became a manager at her restaurant, so he had to stay nearby. So far he still hasn't heard back...super unfortunate.
 
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TSHJB302 said:
I know someone who was a marine, had a 4.00 GPA, and a 515 MCAT. He only applied to two mid-tier schools because his wife just became a manager at her restaurant. So far he still hasn't heard back...super unfortunate.
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Just goes to show even with phenomenal stats and a 'wow' factor, the process is just too random to bank on applying to only a few schools.
 
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samualjhatfield said:
Just goes to show even with phenomenal stats and a 'wow' factor, the process is just too random to bank on applying to only a few schools.
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I'm pretty sure this is fairly common now. I have a 520 and 3.81 GPA in Biochem and didn't get any acceptances and only two interviews. I applied to like 20 schools too. Granted I need more clinical/non-clinical volunteer. But yeah, I'd like to emphasize that you can not rely on your stats to get you in anywhere no matter what MSAR says about their median scores.
 
jmetaller said:
I'm pretty sure this is fairly common now. I have a 520 and 3.81 GPA in Biochem and didn't get any acceptances and only two interviews. I applied to like 20 schools too. Granted I need more clinical/non-clinical volunteer. But yeah, I'd like to emphasize that you can not rely on your stats to get you in anywhere no matter what MSAR says about their median scores.
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Any waitlists?
 
scrapy said:
Any waitlists?
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I did get one waitlist actually.

I will say too that both interviews were at oddball schools that seemed like they were looking for unique types of applicants. I'm pretty sure my personal statement and essays had more to do with their interest in me than my stats.
 
jmetaller said:
I did get one waitlist actually.

I will say too that both interviews were at oddball schools that seemed like they were looking for unique types of applicants. I'm pretty sure my personal statement and essays had more to do with their interest in me than my stats.
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Good luck.
 
I'd greatly appreciate anybody telling me the averages for University of South Dakota. My membership ran out yesterday (thought they updated on the same day each year so I waited a couple days to get the subscription assuming I could see the updated MSAR before losing it)
 
DoctorSnow said:
I'd greatly appreciate anybody telling me the averages for University of South Dakota. My membership ran out yesterday (thought they updated on the same day each year so I waited a couple days to get the subscription assuming I could see the updated MSAR before losing it)
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3.92 and 510
 
DoctorSnow said:
I'd greatly appreciate anybody telling me the averages for University of South Dakota. My membership ran out yesterday (thought they updated on the same day each year so I waited a couple days to get the subscription assuming I could see the updated MSAR before losing it)
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MCAT of 505 - 516
GPA of 3.53 - 4.0
 
Why do people think the average MCAT scores are getting so high for these schools? Are students just doing better on the MCAT, or are schools focusing more on stats than they were before?
 
ikbc2020 said:
Why do people think the average MCAT scores are getting so high for these schools? Are students just doing better on the MCAT, or are schools focusing more on stats than they were before?
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I think it's because there are more applicants with higher scores. Especially with people taking gap years, you essentially have up to 3 years of test takers applying per cycle, so more of those 1-2%ile applicants applying.
 
ikbc2020 said:
Why do people think the average MCAT scores are getting so high for these schools? Are students just doing better on the MCAT, or are schools focusing more on stats than they were before?
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Has to be the latter. MCAT scores are scaled/percentile based and the numbers of applicants haven't changed drastically in the last couple years. The actual number of 515+, 520+ etc scores has stayed roughly the same. It's just that admissions have been more and more disproportionately selecting for those candidates.
 
efle said:
Back to what they were at before. Prior to the MCAT change, they had 90ths at the top 0.1-0.2% (40-41). During the score update the AAMC collapsed a lot of the high end scores to be only one value on the new test (e.g. a 13-15 Verbal were all in the top 1%, and now the top 1% all get 132). So these schools actually had a brief dip in their extremes but are right back to their old levels of absurdity.
Click to expand...

It's also much easier now to not miss questions on the new MCAT. The emphasis on "critical reasoning" has allowed the vast majority of questions to be reasoned out with logic (with the exception of the psych section). You're less likely to get a random content question that's simply a dice roll of whether you remembered some factoid than before. I'm pretty sure a 528 is waaaaay easier to get than a 45 on the old scale.
 
lococola said:
It's also much easier now to not miss questions on the new MCAT. The emphasis on "critical reasoning" has allowed the vast majority of questions to be reasoned out with logic (with the exception of the psych section). You're less likely to get a random content question that's simply a dice roll of whether you remembered some factoid than before. I'm pretty sure a 528 is waaaaay easier to get than a 45 on the old scale.
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In my experience, probably 90% of questions I was able to answer by just crossing out 3 obviously wrong answers and move on. But to be fair you still have to resist making mental errors/miscalculations/misreading a question while sitting for 7 hours. Depending on the section, a 228/230 can already drop you to a 527
 
Can anyone be a saint and provide the 25%, median, 75% MCAT and GPA for Hofstra? For acceptees and matriculants, please. I will give you a virtual hug.
 
manofsteel9 said:
Can anyone be a saint and provide the 25%, median, 75% MCAT and GPA for Hofstra? For acceptees and matriculants, please. I will give you a virtual hug.
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MCAT
25%: 514 (accepted), 513 (matriculated)
75%: 520, 519
Median: 517, 516

GPA (total)
25%: 3.68 (accepted), 3.66 (matriculated)
75%: 3.92, 3.90
Median: 3.81, 3.80
 
mydogmolly said:
In my experience, probably 90% of questions I was able to answer by just crossing out 3 obviously wrong answers and move on. But to be fair you still have to resist making mental errors/miscalculations/misreading a question while sitting for 7 hours. Depending on the section, a 228/230 can already drop you to a 527
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Oh absolutely. I was just giving an explanation as to why there’s a lot more 527s out there now than 44s before
 
I think averages will creep up until reimbursement drops, and then it will fall like a rock.

See also: Pharmacy.
 
lococola said:
It's also much easier now to not miss questions on the new MCAT. The emphasis on "critical reasoning" has allowed the vast majority of questions to be reasoned out with logic (with the exception of the psych section). You're less likely to get a random content question that's simply a dice roll of whether you remembered some factoid than before. I'm pretty sure a 528 is waaaaay easier to get than a 45 on the old scale.
Click to expand...
Interestingly enough, the predictive validity for step 1 stayed exactly the same after switching to the new MCAT (mid 0.60s), and the USMLE just took down all the old practice NBMEs and replaced them with a few new ones, since the old ones had become invalid as predictors. Sounds like the powers that be have recognized that memorization of minutiae is a lot less important than mastery of principles and good reasoning/application skills. Bodes well for the future of medical students, in my opinion, because the current approach a lot of students use is straight-up rote memorizing 24,000 flashcards ("Zanki") which has always struck me as an absurd way to approach medical education.
 
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