MSPE challenges

[Ascent23510]

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[voxveritatisetlucis]

Threaten to get a lawyer

 

[Hollow Knight]

I mean you need more experienced forum members to answer this but I know lots of med students who have marks like this because they forgot to fill out a survey or something. Makes me think it can’t be the black mark it used to be.

But maybe I’m wrong.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

What does your student handbook say about challenging items on your MSPE? They can't just say "sorry, we can't do anything" without some sense of due process unless your handbook says so. It's also presumably your only professionalism slip-up, right?

 

[EthylMethylMan]

Seems kinda nuts that they’d go this far with this. Because yeah, a professionalism ding on your record is probably a kiss of death for competitive specialties. If you’ve already talked to the powers-that-be about it, then yeah, as stated above, consulting the student handbook about challenging MSPE items is probably the next step. Threatening legal action is an avenue worth considering in my opinion if all else fails, but I’d exhaust all other options first if possible. Wisdom of @NotAProgDirector is requested.

Also, you should figure out exactly what the email issue was if you haven’t already. Deluges of BS emails are a reality of life as a resident and an attending. You gotta be able to get to the admin overlords’ emails in a reasonable timeframe.

 

[Dral]

I would try to get this resolved if you can. People get busy, emails get to the wrong inbox, people accidentally miss things.

Do you still have the emails? Like let's assume they went to a non-main or alternate mail folder or something as the reason you missed them. Are they still there so you can prove that's what happened? I guess someone could say you moved them after the fact, but I'd hope someone would give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

.

I would follow the protocols in your handbook. There should be a student advisory dean who you should talk to. There may be an ombudsperson who should help you. Again, it should be listed in your handbook.

I will say that "my email was not on the right settings" doesn't fly as a simple excuse. Omni-channel notification is always smart, so one should follow up an email with a phone call or a text or an actual letter that falls into your student box or mailbox. Notices about immunizations are usually standard in orientation communications, and often it's part of the orientation/matriculation checklist. In other words, at some programs I know, you don't complete matriculation without the vaccine records. We tell people to their faces they are missing vaccine records; get it done, or your offer is rescinded.

That's why I'm a little skeptical. If the student services office is smart, they have copies of all the letters they sent you, including any record if you actually opened up or received the emails. They also will know how they communicated the urgency prior to your matriculation. In other words, you need to work first within the system to get this minor item taken off the record or amended. It seems silly, but the hospital systems need to know you have completed THEIR requirements for vaccination without a problem, and having something on your record that says you don't respond to communications can raise questions, whether or not part of the problem is the school's fault.

ADDED: Most importantly, don't get another citation.

 

[Dral]

That's almost impossible to answer. It depends on the individual opinions and thoughts of each program/application reviewer.

I'm in a competitive specialty. I'll say a few years ago that a red flag for a 'non-compliance' type issue (probably more severe than yours) came up with a candidate and it was not received very well. For competitive specialties, there are more than enough stellar applicants without any sort of issue like this. With that being said, all it takes is one program. If you have a forgiving home program or get in with someone who you get to know (an away rotation or something), that could potentially be all it takes to overcome something like this.

I'd say don't let it stop you from applying for a competitive specialty if that is what you want, but if you can't get it resolved, just be prepared for some possible issues (whether that's not getting as many interviews, having to explain it to programs at interviews, etc).

 

[Mr.Smile12]

In a different forum... meanwhile...

Y

Post in: 'Came 40 min late to an exam, received a 0, failed course, and now I'm being dismissed'

Feb 7, 2025

Yeah that super sucks but also seems valid ngl

I don't know, why not allow them to take the exam without extra time? They just hurt themselves with less time to complete the exam. All that matters is what is in the handbook, however.

• yappy

• 

 

[Med Ed]

I don’t know whether I should contact the dean to assist or not. It feels like 2 of the administrators are just staunchly turning down everything I tell them with : “you should’ve done better”.

This is true, though, isn't it? The vaccination requirements aren't a mystery, and you matriculated to the school months ago.

When I drop a ball at work I have to deal with the consequences. That's life.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

There's clearly more to the story.

 

[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

This is true, though, isn't it? The vaccination requirements aren't a mystery, and you matriculated to the school months ago.

When I drop a ball at work I have to deal with the consequences. That's life.

Eh, I had to get my Hep B full series redone and titers since I was unresponsive on the first. I started that from when I got admitted and just finished last week. Probably depends on what vaccine.

 

[Med Ed]

Eh, I had to get my Hep B full series redone and titers since I was unresponsive on the first. I started that from when I got admitted and just finished last week. Probably depends on what vaccine.

But you were actively working to address the issue, no?

 

[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

But you were actively working to address the issue, no?

True. Emailing the Deans is indeed an important step of not getting in trouble.

 

[candbgirl]

Ok I will inquire about fighting this!

If they don’t budge at all, how likely would you say my chances at a competetive specialty are affected?

When “they” told you they would fix it, did you follow up , like every week until it was supposedly fixed? Or did you just believe they’d do it? Do you have proof of the follow up?

 

[Dr. Anonymouss]

this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. If you have a genuine excuse for not having it done, which your excuse sounds completely reasonable for a first year medical student, then shame on them for taking this to the extreme.

 

[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. If you have a genuine excuse for not having it done, which your excuse sounds completely reasonable for a first year medical student, then shame on them for taking this to the extreme.

I do agree that I think it's absurd to potential screw someone over for residency because they forgot some admin thing that it sounds like was already done anyway, just lost in limbo somewhere.

 

[chssoccer7]

I would suspect there's something here with the length of time you were "working on getting the vaccines" that your admin is tired of dealing with. Assuming you're an M1, matriculation requirements are sent shortly after acceptance, so at the latest, somewhere in May-June-ish. It's February now, so 9 months of working on getting a vaccine?

You mentioned a couple posts up you were "left in the dark". If the people you were emailing weren't responding, why not just go to talk to them or even call? Or someone that has frequent contact with your class in admin? For requirements on your end, it's your responsibility to drive it forward. You can't just shoot off an email and hope for the best. It's going to be hard to explain that you had no communication with them for months on this issue you were supposed to be taking care of.

All that said, I hope you can get it sorted out. I would suggest talking to someone in person in your admin that you feel comfortable enough with to lay out the facts and ask for their help. If you were truly spending all that time compiling whatever is necessary to get it dealt with, you should be able to prove it. You can find dates/times of phone calls sent to insurance/whomever, emails sent, you can make copies of paper correspondence. If you can't do that, or there's months between attempts to get stuff moving, it's going to be hard to get them to have some empathy. I would also track down wherever you were told that admin would take care of it and show that to them. If they ignore it, that's when you go to the student affairs dean.

edited out OP's quote per his request

 

[chssoccer7]

Oh I misunderstood, I thought this was something that still wasn't done. My bad for that. Having it done in September doesn't make a lot of sense to me why they would be quite this stringent about it. This is probably where I would talk to whatever faculty member you have the best relationship with and ask for their advice. In your shoes, I would talk to the dean after that. Worst case scenario, the letter just stays which it's already there anyways, best case he can help you.

 

[Kierkegaard's Bud]

Haha no worries. The head of student affairs confirmed that my case was unusual and that I had shown tremendous “professionalism development “by addressing it right away however they will not remove anything from my MSPE.

I’m just mixed on whether I should approach the dean as I don’t want to make matters worse but since it’s the head of student affairs, I’d have to go to the dean to get something like this resolved.

Your case is unique. It’s quite easy to identify you, be careful what you put in a public forum.

 

[chssoccer7]

This was a professional way for them to say "this is not a problem I care about resolving".
As others have said, just follow whatever procedure is in your handbook. There's absolutely a way to appeal things like this. Like I mentioned before, this is also where just talking to a mentor-like faculty member can help. They know your system way better than we do and can guide you through this with specifics. If you don't have a mentor, think back to orientation to all the presentations you were given and think of who was the most approachable/welcoming.


edited out OP's quote per his request.

 

[Med Ed]

Before I was reported, I was in contact with them, telling them that I was working on getting the vaccines. I had multiple troubles including my insurance, getting my vaccination records from the state, etc.

The issue with my email made me miss the warning for the deadline. I in no way was just ignoring them or offline the entire time.

So you are working on getting the vaccines (meaning you are aware of the issue), but do not see reminder emails of the deadline. When they finally track you down after the deadline passes, you instantly become compliant.

In my experience, one can circumvent insurance issues simply by going to student health. Vaccination records can usually be obtained from multiple places. As with so many of these tales of woe, it always feels like there is a bit more to the story.

Good luck with things, if the rest of your medical school experience is positive I doubt this will create much drag on your future.

 

[Lost in Translation]

Not exactly the same situation, but when I was a student I was called before the professionalism committee for being delinquent on a couple of assignments. During that hearing the subject of time-sensitive emails was also brought up, and I had made an offhand comment about how some of the stuff that I was neglecting wasn’t mandatory to participate in so I had determined that it wasn’t important nor worth my time. It was explained to me that while that may be true, an “RSVP”-type response was expected to these communications so the school could allocate resources appropriately.

The committee further went on to explain that as a resident (and physician), I would get far more emails and time-critical assignments that do matter and the expectation that they be completed on time is nonnegotiable, and so the habit of me not keeping up with anything at all during med school would only further develop bad habits after graduation. That reality had not crossed my mind before and so I became more diligent about making sure to check my email more frequently to see if anything was time-sensitive and needed a response.

I wasn’t cited and my noncompliance didn’t make it to my MSPE. Just let this be a lesson to proactively take care of things. If you anticipate a problem, get ahead of it and notify your superiors before it becomes an issue. Medicine is not a field where asking for forgiveness is easier than asking for permission.