MWU-AZ cost worth it?

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drawingdentist

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  1. Dental Student
Hey everyone, I got into MWU-AZ dental school 2 weeks ago. After touring the school I was so impressed by the technology, curriculum, clinical hours, and the friendly environment. I just wanted to get your thoughts on the cost. If I get into a cheaper dental school that is not as clinically strong, should I turn down MWU-AZ?

Thanks!
 
What cheaper school did you get into that is not clinically strong? IMO like @Big Time Hoosier says go to the cheaper school. I got into MWU-AZ as well and was impressed too. You will get out with a debt reasonable for an oral surgeon but their goal is to prepare you to be a general dentist lol
 
What cheaper school did you get into that is not clinically strong? IMO like @Big Time Hoosier says go to the cheaper school. I got into MWU-AZ as well and was impressed too. You will get out with a debt reasonable for an oral surgeon but their goal is to prepare you to be a general dentist lol
I haven't heard back from other schools yet but hoping to get into UNE.
 
MWU-AZ is unreasonably expensive. I personally wouldn't even go to dental school at all if it meant I'd be nearly half a million dollars in debt. Absolutely go cheaper if that's an option.
You don't think it's possible to pay back the loan in 10 years?
 
You don't think it's possible to pay back the loan in 10 years?

You will be very poor. A student loan calculator shows a monthly payment of roughly 5700 a month for those ten years. If you’re making 120k starting out, that’s about ~80k after taxes, or ~6,666 per month. That leaves you with ~$966 per month. Working a 40 hour work week for four weeks, after taxes and your loan payments, you’re “making” $6 an hour. I think if you go to MWU you should strongly consider an army or navy scholarship. With that amount of debt it will be difficult to obtain a loan to open a practice as well.


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You don't think it's possible to pay back the loan in 10 years?
Nope. You’re paying ~500k. Including interest you’re looking at ~750k with monthly payments at 5.8k. So per year it’s ~70k. As a general dentist starting out ~125k, taxes bring it down to ~90k. You’d be living off of 20k for 10 years. You’ll need to pay for a house, family, retirement, etc. it’s possible but not a great 10 years.

Here’s a loan calculator you can play with: Loan Calculator | Bankrate.com | Calculate your loan payment today!
 
If it is your only option then I would say you should still go, however it’s clinical experience isn’t “worth it”. The degree you get is worth it. If you get into a cheaper school it would be “worth it” to go to the cheaper school.
 
Seriously. Its an incredible amount of debt to pay back PLUS interest. You have to question the sanity in trying to BUY a dental career.
Sure you can pay it back. Along with a possible practice loan. Possible mortgage. Car payment. Life, home/apt, malpractice, personal disability insurance, etc.etc. Add a credit card payment. Get the picture? Its not just the DS loan that you will have to deal with.

Forget the fancy clinic. Attend the cheapest DS.
 
Unless you're doing HPSP or getting help from family, no dental education is worth $500-600k. You'd be living like a student for a very long time
 
I'm in the masters program at MWU-AZ and I will tell you go to another school if it's cheaper. I love the dental school here but got into a dual degree elsewhere and will be going there because of the cost difference.

That said there are ways to help set you up after you leave midwestern and they talk about themwhile you're here. The biggest thing is pick where you want to practice intelligently at least to start. The graduates who have struggled the most are ones who wanted to go back to a saturated area and are struggling at that 90k-120k start range.

I know many students from here though that have been smart in picking a location, and going here you will typically make more your first 1.5 years out just because you are faster. After that from those I have talked to it evens out to other grads. But I have talked with a number of recent grads here who made over 200k their first year by working hard and being smart in their business decisions.

You do need to understand though that coming here means living like a student for at least 5 years to set yourself up.

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I'm in the masters program at MWU-AZ and I will tell you go to another school if it's cheaper. I love the dental school here but got into a dual degree elsewhere and will be going there because of the cost difference.

I know many students from here though that have been smart in picking a location, and going here you will typically make more your first 1.5 years out just because you are faster. After that from those I have talked to it evens out to other grads. But I have talked with a number of recent grads here who made over 200k their first year by working hard and being smart in their business decisions.


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Do you have any evidence to back up that statement? If anything ... the brighter, more gifted students attend the schools that are more difficult to get acceptance to ..... the CHEAPER schools. Private, for profit schools ..... usually the most expensive of the DS exist to make a profit.

Unless you have a scholarship, HPSL, or you're rich .... there is no clinical or business reason to choose an expensive DS over a less expensive DS. I get it. If MWU was your only option .... and you're doing it on loans .... well .... you're selling your soul to be a dentist.

Banks will not loan practice money to a dentist who has LARGE DS debt. If they do ..... you will be paying a HIGHER interest rate as compared to a dentist with less debt. That's how lending works in the real world. Those with less debt, good credit receive the best interest rates. Those who have large debt get the worst interest rate loans.

When I was selling my ortho practice .... I had many recent ortho grads looking at my practice. Most of them worked in Corp and they wanted out. But the banks were unwilling to loan them the $$ to buy my practice.
 
Do you have any evidence to back up that statement? If anything ... the brighter, more gifted students attend the schools that are more difficult to get acceptance to ..... the CHEAPER schools. Private, for profit schools ..... usually the most expensive of the DS exist to make a profit.

Unless you have a scholarship, HPSL, or you're rich .... there is no clinical or business reason to choose an expensive DS over a less expensive DS. I get it. If MWU was your only option .... and you're doing it on loans .... well .... you're selling your soul to be a dentist.

Banks will not loan practice money to a dentist who has LARGE DS debt. If they do ..... you will be paying a HIGHER interest rate as compared to a dentist with less debt. That's how lending works in the real world. Those with less debt, good credit receive the best interest rates. Those who have large debt get the worst interest rate loans.

When I was selling my ortho practice .... I had many recent ortho grads looking at my practice. Most of them worked in Corp and they wanted out. But the banks were unwilling to loan them the $$ to buy my practice.
Just anecdotally from talking with graduates and admin of different schools at research conferences. MWU-az's large selling point is they have one of the highest, if not the highest procedures/day numbers in dental school. So the students leaving seem to be used to doing higher productions per day once out and have a higher number of procedures. So there is less of an adjustment when moving to private practice and thus they can make more money that first year out.

This is gap is pretty quickly closed in the first year or so from the people I have talked to and of course it's a generalizing statement as some students are better than others.

I'm also not saying that the money you might make over another grad is significant enough to say go to MWU over a cheaper school, especially given the debt load. I actually say the opposite but by making smart choices your first couple of years out you can limit the pain the crushing debt causes.

I also agree if you intend to open up your own practice/buy in straight out of dental school you may find it hard to get a loan. The numbers I am talking about are strictly from associate positions in similar markets. Because I don't want to own immediately, I never asked about sole proprietorship numbers.

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Like what? Faking your own death and fleeing to Cuba to escape the debt?

Big Hoss
Things like working for non-profits or teaching to get forgiveness. Understanding that though you dream may be to live in LA the saturation is not going to allow you to make enough to live well at least early on. Managing other debt (cars, credit cards, mortgages, etc...). Looking at higher, at least initially, yield jobs to start like corporate to pay down some of the debt early. Many students seem to understand how to work the current payment systems to make sure you're payments make sense.

Again I'm not saying turn down the cheaper public school because here is sooooo much better. I got in here but will be going elsewhere that is offering me a full ride because of the money. All I'm saying is if your dream is to be a dentist and MWU is the only school you get into it is possible to live a comfortable life if your managing your money intelligently. If you have the expectation of owning a million dollar house and a boat and fancy car etc.... year one MWU is not the school for you.


*** I don't remember faking your own death and fleeing to Cuba being one of the things they talked about but it seems like a valid option 😉

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If that's your only acceptance, then go. you can always refinance.
 
@princeafrica does mwu az even match people into oral surgery?

I actually didn’t ask. But they raved about their oral surgery department and how some students were able to do sinus surgery with supervision when the oral surgeon felt comfortable with them.

The point I tried to make was that a 500k debt is reasonable for an oral surgeon but Midwestern whole mission is centered around general dentistry.
 
If that's your only acceptance, then go. you can always refinance.
Be careful with this thinking. Really ensure dentistry is the career you want. At $450k+ it’s going to be a very, very long road ahead for you to become solvent. You will really need to look into the coveted rural areas. You won’t be heading to the nice urban places you may want to live and it’s going to be a difficult 15 years or more years.

You will pay the debt off eventually, but what you lose and miss out on in those 15 years is something to think about. Choosing a career in dentistry is very hit or miss these days and very situational, it’s not worth it for everyone anymore. 10 years ago, it was worth the risk of not liking the career because you’d still make a good living even if you didn’t like the job. These days with these loans, if you don’t like the job, you’ll hate it even more when you see 70k a year going to student loans.
 
lending rates are going up.

Do you think that's only temporarily? From my (limited) understanding, they can go up or down. or, someone could extend the years thus lowering their monthly payment and pay extra on top of that since it would then go directly towards the principal.

And out of curiosity, does IBR/PAYE?REPAYE apply to dentists? that could help too.
 
Do you think that's only temporarily? From my (limited) understanding, they can go up or down. or, someone could extend the years thus lowering their monthly payment and pay extra on top of that since it would then go directly towards the principal.

And out of curiosity, does IBR/PAYE?REPAYE apply to dentists? that could help too.
They are expected to continue rising for the foreseeable future. Those programs can be used, but there is no guarantee that they will be around in the future and although they will help you cash flow wise, you pay more over time + depending on the program have a huge balloon payment at the end.
 
They are expected to continue rising for the foreseeable future. Those programs can be used, but there is no guarantee that they will be around in the future and although they will help you cash flow wise, you pay more over time + depending on the program have a huge balloon payment at the end.

all good points
 
Do you think that's only temporarily? From my (limited) understanding, they can go up or down. or, someone could extend the years thus lowering their monthly payment and pay extra on top of that since it would then go directly towards the principal.

And out of curiosity, does IBR/PAYE?REPAYE apply to dentists? that could help too.
You'll have to weigh out if IBR helps you or not. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't depending on your loan amount. Like @Blueshirts said, you better start saving for that tax bomb, because even though you're saving a decent amount of money by using IBR, that explosion is going to be a good chunk of your net worth.

How to Pay off Dental School Debt and Still Retire in Your 50’s | Student Loan Planner Read through some of his articles, they do contain good information
 
At times I've considered consulting a financial advisor once I know what my debt load is going to be lol, for a lot of us, tackling the debt of school needs a methodical long term approach and there are just so many more moving parts after graduation that it would be a little too much to take in at once
 
@princeafrica does mwu az even match people into oral surgery?

Yes, they do. They recently matched 2 applicants into OMFS (can be found on their website). With that said, entering a 4 or 6 year residency while accruing interest on an already astronomical loan and likely additional tuition for the latter track seems daunting to me.
 
Yes, they do. They recently matched 2 applicants into OMFS (can be found on their website). With that said, entering a 4 or 6 year residency while accruing interest on an already astronomical loan and likely additional tuition for the latter track seems daunting to me.

You’re right, I just checked. 2 into OS and 2 are doing an internship. Wonder how many applied though. Pretty cool they stated that plainly rather than saying 4 are in OS to inflate their numbers.
 
You’re right, I just checked. 2 into OS and 2 are doing an internship. Wonder how many applied though. Pretty cool they stated that plainly rather than saying 4 are in OS to inflate their numbers.
I know at least 1 guy got multiple offers this year and another has had multiple interviews in the years D4 class. I know at least 4 who got accepted to ortho from this year and 2 in pedo. Not sure about any other specialties.

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If 2 are doing an internship that most likely means they didn’t match. That’s a 2/4 which is pretty bad. What’s the class size? Good matching stats for a class of 141 would be about 10.

Next pedo is a very hot field, I would expect at least 15. The numbers for ortho is pretty good. I’m just shocked at how the debt ratio for the amount of non specialists.
One can argue they don’t want to take on extra debt to do the specialties. But being a Super GP is no easy task, the more procedures the higher the overhead. Lots of coordination involved. Why so little Peds?
 
I know at least 1 guy got multiple offers this year and another has had multiple interviews in the years D4 class. I know at least 4 who got accepted to ortho from this year and 2 in pedo. Not sure about any other specialties.

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That’s not how matching for residency works- you don’t get multiple offers like DS acceptance. You match into one program through a ranking system.
 
I loved MWU when I interviewed but like other posters said it's just so expensive.

With that said, if you don't get in anywhere cheaper I would still go (unless you were an engineer or something of that ilk in undergrad).

There are a few examples of dentist who have came out of there who paid down the debt, it just requires sacrifice and some serious hustling.
 
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