My advice to pre-pharmers

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The problem is that everything is glutted, with the possible exception of MD - and has been for the last few years at least. It's not just pharmacy. We have about 50% too many college graduates, period.

The OP suggests software engineering? That's glutted too - to the point that Indians are starting to go back home for better opportunities.

This advice would be fair if it were just pharmacy that was glutted. Or just pharmacy and one or two other fields. But it's not. Most of us are looking at a pile of bad options, and picking the one that smells the least like faeces. At least from where I'm standing, my only realistic alternatives are $7.25/hr and IBR for life, or suicide.

I don't see a gravy train in Pharmacy. I see a fighting chance to escape purgatory one way or another. Not a fair fight, but a fight at least.

Why not pursue the MD route? Only takes a few more years than pharmacy especially if you plan on doing pharmacy residency.. Or there's plenty of other great alternatives that will be more in demand than pharmacy such as becoming a PA

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Why not pursue the MD route? Only takes a few more years than pharmacy especially if you plan on doing pharmacy residency.. Or there's plenty of other great alternatives that will be more in demand than pharmacy such as becoming a PA

PA? You need significant medical experience (2 years worth) just to apply to those programs. I looked. That's looking at additional years to get INTO the medical field in the first place, and going through other glutted fields, just to get the foot in the door. Which is why PA isn't glutted yet; not enough people even have the chance at it. I don't have those years to spare - I'm too damn old as it is.

MD? If I had the undergrad grades for that, I'd've already gone on that boat. Bit strange for Plan "J" to be the Plan "A" that didn't work out. Now, if you point out a program that will (a) at least consider post-undergrad work, and (b) consider coursework and MCATs more than a decade old, then sure, I'll apply. What the hell. But I don't think that exists.
 
owlegrad, my genuine apologies for coming off snarky in my post. These fear-mongering threads get to be uber-repetitive and I missed your snark. EPIC posting FAIL in the heat of the moment.

You're maudlin and full of self-pity. You're magnificent!

I don't get where people are commenting about how there are all of these WONDERFUL options to pursue besides pharmacy school. If they are SO wonderful, why didn't you pursue them instead of applying to pharmacy school? While I would like to believe that one is commenting about horrible welfare-ridden future pharmacy out of sheer benevolence to help pre-pharm students, I will buy that and as well as the mountain top chalet in South Beach that you're selling.

Furthermore, once one start tossing out comments like "why not pursue the MD route," it shows that YOU should have chosen the MD route because you didn't know what YOU were getting yourself into. EVERY career field is becoming glutted now, so recommending that people pursue other options is myopic, self-serving and downright laughable because if shows your lack of knowledge about other fields. Software engineering positions are going overseas, Medical School is incredibly difficult to attend, the list is endless.

Shockingly, there are students who GENUINELY want to pursue pharmacy school due to the reasons that chate mentioned above. I have worked in the pharmaceutical industry for 3 years, I have a MS in Chemistry and pharmacy is my career goal for reasons that I've written admissions essays. Furthermore, bemoaning the future of the profession because you can't find a job in the precise place that you want to be is somewhat laughable. It is that way for everyone, even MD residents. *GASP* OH NO, maybe the MD route is going downhill too!

The fear-mongering threads are getting quite old. Moderators, could you please start a thread on the board entitled "Post here if you're a fear-mongerer who wants to tell pre-pharm students how HORRIBLE pharmacy is/will be." It would save bandwidth.
 
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Again, I'm re-stating its not about fear mongering, most of us (who are already done or almost done with rx school) gain nothing from writing what we write.

I for one chose pharmacy because i've done it for so long (going on 10 yrs, went from clerk all the way up) so if you're in the same boat, by all means, that spark of hope will keep you going (as it does for me during the dark times). Its more so meant for the people who decide their 2nd year of undergrad that pharmacy looks like a great profession because of the money or because of the "easy" job...

If you're passionate about something, i hope your research into a career goes beyond SDN and involves PERSONAL experience, and the point for ME of coming back to this forum and writing anything on here is more to educate the kids who are getting into this profession, to let you know the troubles that people, like me, are facing in the job market.

The people who give you advice, have jobs, IE graduated >3 years ago have a different perspective and that is definitely outdated...pharmacy is dynamic, and maybe next year there WILL be jobs (hope to god), but RIGHT NOW and for the last 2 years, realistically, thats how the market is, if you know the risk, and are still willing to take it, then by all means, more power to you

I'm ranting I know, but calling us fear mongerers is unfair, we are just saying it like it is
 
What are better alternatives then ?????????

Lets see.... there's...

Medicine... oh yea 4 years med school (considering I even get in... here in Canada getting in is 100x harder considering there's WAY less med schools than the US, and I could be 22-24 when I get in)) + 4 years residency... + fellowship... I'll be 32-34 before I can finally begin my life.

And by that time, things can change for the worse for doctors and surgeons (financially), or even farrr worse. who knows right?


There's... dentistry and optometry... but why is it there's one of these in every plaza I go into? Especially dentistry... brb now you're 26-27 and wayy harder to make money as one of these cause you're competing with so many people for patients.

PA? Well someone already mentioned this.. given the requirements... not a possibilty for most people... and even if it is.. you'll be put down by the average joe due to the low prestige of the title.. physician assistant. Now the average person thinks you're a community college dude.


Engineering? Someone already mentioned things are going for the worse there too (and already have quite a bit). Also people talk about a 100k salary... well how about working for 15-20 years before you even have a SMALL shot at making 100k as an engineer...


Law? lol well for US people... this one shouldn't even need an explanation.. it's years ahead of pharmacy in terms of "disastrous sufferring."

Business? oh yea I'll get the same degree as half the rest of the american population and hope that I'm in the 0.00000000001% who makes 10k a day and becomes a CEO.. yep... lolz... more like 35-45k for the rest of your life.


Anymore??
 
Discouraging pharmacy students are discouraging.
 
Discouraging pharmacy students are discouraging.

I just wish all the pharmacy nay-sayers would leave pharmacy. I'm so sick of hearing people say they have too much invested already. Nelson Mandela served 27 years in prison and later became the president of a country and I'm supposed to believe a pharmacy student in the 'United States of Silver Spoon up my ass Entitled little sh*ts' can't drop out and pursue PA school because they're in their 20s and it's "too late" and "too hard" and in economics 101 they learned about opportunity cost so there's no way out. And on top of that they want to advise other "naive" students on an internet forum because they know the future and everyone's situation and what a better profession would be even though they never worked that job before. Yeah... okay...
 
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I just wish all the pharmacy nay-sayers would leave pharmacy. I'm so sick of hearing people say they have too much invested already. Nelson Mandela served 27 years in prison and later became the president of a country and I'm supposed to believe a pharmacy student in the 'United States of Silver Spoon up my ass Entitled little ****s' can't drop out and pursue PA school because they're in their 20s and it's "too late" and "too hard" and in economics 101 they learned about opportunity cost so there's no way out. And on top of that they wan't to advise other "naive" students on an internet forum because they know the future and everyone's situation and what a better profession would be even though they never worked that job before. Yeah... okay...


:thumbup: Preach on! :thumbup:
 
What are better alternatives then ?????????

Lets see.... there's...

Medicine... oh yea 4 years med school (considering I even get in... here in Canada getting in is 100x harder considering there's WAY less med schools than the US, and I could be 22-24 when I get in)) + 4 years residency... + fellowship... I'll be 32-34 before I can finally begin my life.

And by that time, things can change for the worse for doctors and surgeons (financially), or even farrr worse. who knows right?


There's... dentistry and optometry... but why is it there's one of these in every plaza I go into? Especially dentistry... brb now you're 26-27 and wayy harder to make money as one of these cause you're competing with so many people for patients.

PA? Well someone already mentioned this.. given the requirements... not a possibilty for most people... and even if it is.. you'll be put down by the average joe due to the low prestige of the title.. physician assistant. Now the average person thinks you're a community college dude.


Engineering? Someone already mentioned things are going for the worse there too (and already have quite a bit). Also people talk about a 100k salary... well how about working for 15-20 years before you even have a SMALL shot at making 100k as an engineer...


Law? lol well for US people... this one shouldn't even need an explanation.. it's years ahead of pharmacy in terms of "disastrous sufferring."

Business? oh yea I'll get the same degree as half the rest of the american population and hope that I'm in the 0.00000000001% who makes 10k a day and becomes a CEO.. yep... lolz... more like 35-45k for the rest of your life.


Anymore??

Are you still in high school? Why...do you....type..like...this...?

What kind of sentence or sentences is this?

"Well someone already mentioned this.. given the requirements... not a possibilty for most people... and even if it is.. you'll be put down by the average joe due to the low prestige of the title.. physician assistant. "
 
What kind of sentence or sentences is this?

"Well someone already mentioned this.. given the requirements... not a possibilty for most people... and even if it is.. you'll be put down by the average joe due to the low prestige of the title.. physician assistant. "

Given the requirements for becoming a physician assistant, it may not be plausible for most people to consider becoming a physician assistant, making it nearly impossible for them to pursue a career as a physician assistant.

Even if it was possible for most people, they will be put "down in the dumps" when their jobs are compared to the average job, due to the low prestige of the title "physician assistant," because people may think of you as someone like a secretary for the physician.


druggeek, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
 
I just wish all the pharmacy nay-sayers would leave pharmacy. I'm so sick of hearing people say they have too much invested already. Nelson Mandela served 27 years in prison and later became the president of a country and I'm supposed to believe a pharmacy student in the 'United States of Silver Spoon up my ass Entitled little sh*ts' can't drop out and pursue PA school because they're in their 20s and it's "too late" and "too hard" and in economics 101 they learned about opportunity cost so there's no way out. And on top of that they want to advise other "naive" students on an internet forum because they know the future and everyone's situation and what a better profession would be even though they never worked that job before. Yeah... okay...

:thumbup::thumbup: Amen!
 
owlegrad, my genuine apologies for coming off snarky in my post. These fear-mongering threads get to be uber-repetitive and I missed your snark. EPIC posting FAIL in the heat of the moment.

No problem dude. I figured that's what happened. Most of my posts are meant in a humorous kind of way. I used to have that in my sig, but then there was confusion about when I was serious and when I was joking. I figure if there is going to be confusion either way I might as well go with the shorter sig.

The fear-mongering threads are getting quite old. Moderators, could you please start a thread on the board entitled "Post here if you're a fear-mongerer who wants to tell pre-pharm students how HORRIBLE pharmacy is/will be." It would save bandwidth.

We have that. It's just more fun apparently for them to start a new thread every time they want to rather than contribute to a mega-thread. Actually it is much nicer sense we got the mega-thread, before that it seemed like every other thread was a doom and gloom thread.
 
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I just wish all the pharmacy nay-sayers would leave pharmacy. I'm so sick of hearing people say they have too much invested already. Nelson Mandela served 27 years in prison and later became the president of a country and I'm supposed to believe a pharmacy student in the 'United States of Silver Spoon up my ass Entitled little sh*ts' can't drop out and pursue PA school because they're in their 20s and it's "too late" and "too hard" and in economics 101 they learned about opportunity cost so there's no way out. And on top of that they want to advise other "naive" students on an internet forum because they know the future and everyone's situation and what a better profession would be even though they never worked that job before. Yeah... okay...

Dude, you're awesome. Keep posting, please!
 
Are you still in high school? Why...do you....type..like...this...?

What kind of sentence or sentences is this?

"Well someone already mentioned this.. given the requirements... not a possibilty for most people... and even if it is.. you'll be put down by the average joe due to the low prestige of the title.. physician assistant. "
It's an online message board, who cares how I type?

Content of my post remains the same.
 
Not trying to discourage. I'm just saying make sure money isn't too big of a factor in your decision to become a pharmacist. Just trying to help some pre-pharmers out. Pharmacy education is quite corrupt similar to law school. Schools don't care what happens to graduates after they graduate. They just wanna make $$$ off of naive people...

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 
Originally Posted by Somatic
Not trying to discourage. I'm just saying make sure money isn't too big of a factor in your decision to become a pharmacist. Just trying to help some pre-pharmers out. Pharmacy education is quite corrupt similar to law school. Schools don't care what happens to graduates after they graduate. They just wanna make $$$ off of naive people...


How are pharmacy schools different than any other schools? I've been through 4 school districts and 2 colleges and not once did a school hold my hand after I had left. Please explain what PA schools, optometry or dental, etc... do after students graduate or how they "care" more...

And also, what do YOU want your pharmacy school to do for YOU?
 
I would like to just go on record to say....

Physician Assistant.

That is all, you are free to move about the cabin....
 
What are better alternatives then ?????????

Lets see.... there's...

Medicine... oh yea 4 years med school (considering I even get in... here in Canada getting in is 100x harder considering there's WAY less med schools than the US, and I could be 22-24 when I get in)) + 4 years residency... + fellowship... I'll be 32-34 before I can finally begin my life.

And by that time, things can change for the worse for doctors and surgeons (financially), or even farrr worse. who knows right?


There's... dentistry and optometry... but why is it there's one of these in every plaza I go into? Especially dentistry... brb now you're 26-27 and wayy harder to make money as one of these cause you're competing with so many people for patients.

PA? Well someone already mentioned this.. given the requirements... not a possibilty for most people... and even if it is.. you'll be put down by the average joe due to the low prestige of the title.. physician assistant. Now the average person thinks you're a community college dude.


Engineering? Someone already mentioned things are going for the worse there too (and already have quite a bit). Also people talk about a 100k salary... well how about working for 15-20 years before you even have a SMALL shot at making 100k as an engineer...


Law? lol well for US people... this one shouldn't even need an explanation.. it's years ahead of pharmacy in terms of "disastrous sufferring."

Business? oh yea I'll get the same degree as half the rest of the american population and hope that I'm in the 0.00000000001% who makes 10k a day and becomes a CEO.. yep... lolz... more like 35-45k for the rest of your life.


Anymore??

The only common theme between all of your "insights" into the various professions is that you assume you will suck at whatever you do. Perhaps you should get that checked out because there are so many opportunities in so many of your "dead fields."
 
I hate to add fuel to the fire, but according to this MSNBC article, pharmacists are predicted to be replaced by robots in the near future. :laugh:

I'm sure the OP is a troll or just trying to discourage people for his/her own personal benefit, but I can imagine the machine thing becoming a very real problem for flesh and blood human pharmacists 20 or so years down the line. What do you guys think?
 
I hate to add fuel to the fire, but according to this MSNBC article, pharmacists are predicted to be replaced by robots in the near future. :laugh:

I'm sure the OP is a troll or just trying to discourage people for his/her own personal benefit, but I can imagine the machine thing becoming a very real problem for flesh and blood human pharmacists 20 or so years down the line. What do you guys think?

I've heard quite a few people say it CAN and WILL happen. A lot would have to change though such as laws.
 
I've heard quite a few people say it CAN and WILL happen. A lot would have to change though such as laws.

Then talk to your representatives about what changes you want to see.
 
Then talk to your representatives about what changes you want to see.

More like talk to your representatives about what changes you DON'T want to see. For example, making sure that a human pharmacist must be on duty at all times for an rx to be dispensed
 
That article is almost silly, for a number of reasons. Sure robots can do most of the dispensing tasks in pharmacy (and already do at some places). But they make pharmacy automation seem like it's new, which it is not. It's also still way too expensive for small operations. Plus, robots couldn't do the cognitive functions of a pharmacist.
 
sheesh, you guys talk about the ACPE as if it really has any "power" over new schools opening. it's constrained by antitrust regulation governing DOE accrediting bodies, that should end all discussion of the vague "ACPE corruption" idea some of you have.
 
sheesh, you guys talk about the ACPE as if it really has any "power" over new schools opening. it's constrained by antitrust regulation governing DOE accrediting bodies, that should end all discussion of the vague "ACPE corruption" idea some of you have.


Thank you! You've explained that many, many times. It's like people can't read or use the search function.
 
That article is almost silly, for a number of reasons. Sure robots can do most of the dispensing tasks in pharmacy (and already do at some places). But they make pharmacy automation seem like it's new, which it is not. It's also still way too expensive for small operations. Plus, robots couldn't do the cognitive functions of a pharmacist.
The whole article was dumb.

Yeah I'd like to see a whole defense team in a court-room made up of computers...pretty sure real criminals would pay for a human team since the whole point of lawyers is to convince the audience, not really come to a verdict via scanning of technical reports.

Or a robot babysit a newborn child...the day that happens, why not just eliminate motherhood, since obviously it can be "roboticized".

Hell, at that point, just eliminate humans altogether? lol...stupid article.
 
Mother Earth would probably appreciate that.
Well then she wouldn't really be a "mother" cause there would be nothing to mother I guess...eventually the robot's batteries would run out and without humans to make more the Earth would end :p
 
Have you not heard. Future factories will be completely automated. It will have 2 employee's.
A man and a dog.
The man is there to feed the dog.
The dog is there to make sure the man does not touch the machines.

See, there will still be jobs in the future with automated pill dispensing.
 
I hate to add fuel to the fire, but according to this MSNBC article, pharmacists are predicted to be replaced by robots in the near future. :laugh:

I'm sure the OP is a troll or just trying to discourage people for his/her own personal benefit, but I can imagine the machine thing becoming a very real problem for flesh and blood human pharmacists 20 or so years down the line. What do you guys think?


John Edwards has more credibility than MSNBC... just saying.
 
Ok I've never responded to these threads and in the past just read them and got nervous but I feel compelled to in this thread for some reason.

I am one of those pre-pharm students looking to get into pharm basically for the money. Don't get me wrong I also like the aspect of being involved with people helping them etc. Its basically what I do now...I work for the feds and help veterans for example figure out their claims. However the feds, despite what GOPers have you think, dont get paid well and I decided on pharm after much research for a job that would involve helping people, have some level of prestige, and make good money.

I love people that say making 6 figures is not a big deal cuz of taxes. Yeah well try making my salary now with its lower taxes and let me see which would you prefer.

Yeah sure pharm grads will have some debt but its no different than a lawyer, doctor, etc. Plus theyre student loans with a million repayment options.

Finally, dont tell me that getting a pharm degree is easy. I have a BA in polisci and am taking my science prereqs now and this stuff is not easy. Maybe its cuz Im a little older and cant remember stuff like I did in my early 20's but anyone who can get into a legitimate pharm school has earned it and has sacrificed a lot to do it. If its easy for them then they probably are smart enough to go for med school.

This doom and gloom stuff does get to me at times and gets me worried but I'm still plugging along. Hopefully Ill be applying in 2012 and hopefully it goes well.
 
Ok I've never responded to these threads and in the past just read them and got nervous but I feel compelled to in this thread for some reason.

I am one of those pre-pharm students looking to get into pharm basically for the money. Don't get me wrong I also like the aspect of being involved with people helping them etc. Its basically what I do now...I work for the feds and help veterans for example figure out their claims. However the feds, despite what GOPers have you think, dont get paid well and I decided on pharm after much research for a job that would involve helping people, have some level of prestige, and make good money.

I love people that say making 6 figures is not a big deal cuz of taxes. Yeah well try making my salary now with its lower taxes and let me see which would you prefer.

Yeah sure pharm grads will have some debt but its no different than a lawyer, doctor, etc. Plus theyre student loans with a million repayment options.

Finally, dont tell me that getting a pharm degree is easy. I have a BA in polisci and am taking my science prereqs now and this stuff is not easy. Maybe its cuz Im a little older and cant remember stuff like I did in my early 20's but anyone who can get into a legitimate pharm school has earned it and has sacrificed a lot to do it. If its easy for them then they probably are smart enough to go for med school.


This doom and gloom stuff does get to me at times and gets me worried but I'm still plugging along. Hopefully Ill be applying in 2012 and hopefully it goes well.

I identify the most with the bolded paragraph but agree with the entire post.

Would I be going into pharmacy if I knew I'd be getting paid, at most, $45000 out of school? No, I'd be making sacher torte and croissants for $45000 (since that's my not-so secret love, baking, which is a beautiful meld of chemistry & eating!!). The salary is absolutely a draw, and I just can't take anyone seriously who hasn't at least once looked at the ~$50/hr starting wage and being like, oh hell yeah. TO varying degrees, most of us do what we do because we want a good retirement and to travel, do other stuff like that... which you just really can't have/do on a paltry salary.
 
I identify the most with the bolded paragraph but agree with the entire post.

Would I be going into pharmacy if I knew I'd be getting paid, at most, $45000 out of school? No, I'd be making sacher torte and croissants for $45000 (since that's my not-so secret love, baking, which is a beautiful meld of chemistry & eating!!). The salary is absolutely a draw, and I just can't take anyone seriously who hasn't at least once looked at the ~$50/hr starting wage and being like, oh hell yeah. TO varying degrees, most of us do what we do because we want a good retirement and to travel, do other stuff like that... which you just really can't have/do on a paltry salary.

Exactly. I mean I did polisci and got into government cuz I was a big idealistic hippy in college that wanted to just do what I liked and help people out. So I did it and 7 years in, being a little older, I realized I gotta get my S together if I plan on raising a family getting a house etc. etc. I won't be doing that on a govt salary. So I've always had an interest in the sciences, and pharm looked possible like I could do that and it isn't as time and brain intensive as med school would be but it pays a little more than PA, AA etc.

I understand the sentiment that you should do what you love but you reach a certain age where sometimes what you love isn't enough for you to eat.
 
I'm warning you about just looking at the $ aspect of pharmacy. Was pharmacy always a high paying field? NO! I think in response to the shortage, chains offered high salaries to attract employees. Hospitals (which still generally pay slightly less than chains) paid quite a bit less than retail but had to raise salaries in order to ensure they could still recruit pharmacists. So the salary of retail and hospital pharmacists became comparable.

Now we went from a significant shortage to entering a surplus in a pretty short time due to increased grads and bad economy. And while salaries have not declined (but have slowed in terms of increases), once the surplus gets worse I bet you will see salaries decline as well because there will be so many pharmDs and not enough jobs to go around. So chains, hospitals, and anywhere else that employs pharmacists will take the ones that are willing to work for lower pay just to have a job. No wonder economics is a pre-requisite for many pharm schools :rolleyes: Once grads come out with such a high debt load and can't find jobs, you won't be able to hold the schools accountable...You should have known better from logical economics
 
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I'm warning you about just looking at the $ aspect of pharmacy. Was pharmacy always a high paying field? NO! I think in response to the shortage, chains offered high salaries to attract employees. Hospitals (which still generally pay slightly less than chains) paid quite a bit less than retail but had to raise salaries in order to ensure they could still recruit pharmacists. So the salary of retail and hospital pharmacists became comparable.

Now we went from a significant shortage to entering a surplus in a pretty short time due to increased grads and bad economy. And while salaries have not declined (but have slowed in terms of increases), once the surplus gets worse I bet you will see salaries decline as well because there will be so many pharmDs and not enough jobs to go around. So chains, hospitals, and anywhere else that employs pharmacists will take the ones that are willing to work for lower pay just to have a job. No wonder economics is a pre-requisite for many pharm schools :rolleyes: Once grads come out with such a high debt load and can't find jobs, you won't be able to hold the schools accountable...You should have known better from logical economics


We didn't have any questions regarding your position on this, I don't think.
 
I'm warning you about just looking at the $ aspect of pharmacy. Was pharmacy always a high paying field? NO! I think in response to the shortage, chains offered high salaries to attract employees. Hospitals (which still generally pay slightly less than chains) paid quite a bit less than retail but had to raise salaries in order to ensure they could still recruit pharmacists. So the salary of retail and hospital pharmacists became comparable.

Now we went from a significant shortage to entering a surplus in a pretty short time due to increased grads and bad economy. And while salaries have not declined (but have slowed in terms of increases), once the surplus gets worse I bet you will see salaries decline as well because there will be so many pharmDs and not enough jobs to go around. So chains, hospitals, and anywhere else that employs pharmacists will take the ones that are willing to work for lower pay just to have a job. No wonder economics is a pre-requisite for many pharm schools :rolleyes: Once grads come out with such a high debt load and can't find jobs, you won't be able to hold the schools accountable...You should have known better from logical economics

The sky, it is falling.
 
The sky, it is falling.

Hmmm :rolleyes: Sorry but I'm a realist. I'm not going to try to sugar coat the truth like most pharmacy schools try to do with naive pre-pharmers...:(
 
Hmmm :rolleyes: Sorry but I'm a realist. I'm not going to try to sugar coat the truth like most pharmacy schools try to do with naive pre-pharmers...:(

You're so negative about it as if you hate it and you're still in school... Why?
 
He obviously wants to be in PA school, but for some reason is making no effort to make it happen.
 
I'm warning you about just looking at the $ aspect of pharmacy. Was pharmacy always a high paying field? NO! I think in response to the shortage, chains offered high salaries to attract employees. Hospitals (which still generally pay slightly less than chains) paid quite a bit less than retail but had to raise salaries in order to ensure they could still recruit pharmacists. So the salary of retail and hospital pharmacists became comparable.

Now we went from a significant shortage to entering a surplus in a pretty short time due to increased grads and bad economy. And while salaries have not declined (but have slowed in terms of increases), once the surplus gets worse I bet you will see salaries decline as well because there will be so many pharmDs and not enough jobs to go around. So chains, hospitals, and anywhere else that employs pharmacists will take the ones that are willing to work for lower pay just to have a job. No wonder economics is a pre-requisite for many pharm schools :rolleyes: Once grads come out with such a high debt load and can't find jobs, you won't be able to hold the schools accountable...You should have known better from logical economics

Dude you gotta think about it. They aren't gonna have Joe Schmoes off the street handling drugs for patients. That will never happen if only for legal reasons. I'm sure CVS and whoever doesnt like paying pharmacists just like they dont like paying managers such high salaries but they do it so that one of their customers doesnt get a lethal combo of drugs from a guy who doesn't know. Plus if you get a Pharm Degree you're a Doctor of Pharmacy or whatever the title is. Theres no way that all of sudden people who graduate are gonna be making 60k. The salary cuts have something to do with the downturn in the economy which wont be bad forever. In addition you have all these baby boomers retiring very soon and every single one of them are gonna need meds.

My thinking is if you go to a legit pharm school you'll be just fine once you graduate. Who knows maybe I'm wrong but in my experience if you have a higher than a masters level expertise in a science, you're good.
 
I'm warning you about just looking at the $ aspect of pharmacy. Was pharmacy always a high paying field? NO! I think in response to the shortage, chains offered high salaries to attract employees. Hospitals (which still generally pay slightly less than chains) paid quite a bit less than retail but had to raise salaries in order to ensure they could still recruit pharmacists. So the salary of retail and hospital pharmacists became comparable.

Now we went from a significant shortage to entering a surplus in a pretty short time due to increased grads and bad economy. And while salaries have not declined (but have slowed in terms of increases), once the surplus gets worse I bet you will see salaries decline as well because there will be so many pharmDs and not enough jobs to go around. So chains, hospitals, and anywhere else that employs pharmacists will take the ones that are willing to work for lower pay just to have a job. No wonder economics is a pre-requisite for many pharm schools :rolleyes: Once grads come out with such a high debt load and can't find jobs, you won't be able to hold the schools accountable...You should have known better from logical economics

Exactly; So YOU should have known better from logical economics prior to entering pharmacy school with respect to the doom and gloom that you're preaching. Why did you decide to attend pharmacy school given the "logical economics" that you speak of so highly?
 
Exactly; So YOU should have known better from logical economics prior to entering pharmacy school with respect to the doom and gloom that you're preaching. Why did you decide to attend pharmacy school given the "logical economics" that you speak of so highly?

Cognitive dissonance? LOL
 
I'm a 4th year and almost finished. Pharmacy was a very promising field when I first started school. Huge sign on bonuses...You could work anywhere you want straight out of school, even clinical jobs and could get sign on bonuses with a clinical job too...But a surplus of pharmacists has had a very negative impact on the profession and I can only see it getting worse. I doubt the economy will get better anytime soon. An economic collapse is likely to occur this year... The economy is only getting worse.
 
I'm a 4th year and almost finished. Pharmacy was a very promising field when I first started school. Huge sign on bonuses...You could work anywhere you want straight out of school, even clinical jobs and could get sign on bonuses with a clinical job too...But a surplus of pharmacists has had a very negative impact on the profession and I can only see it getting worse. I doubt the economy will get better anytime soon. An economic collapse is likely to occur this year... The economy is only getting worse.

:rolleyes:
 
An economic collapse is likely to occur this year...

How to survive a total economic collapse.


  • <LI class=step sizset="2" sizcache="12" itxtHarvested="1" itxtNodeId="14">1 Read. Educate yourself before hand if possible. Read everything you can on how to survive a total economic collapse. Start with "Financial Reckoning Day: Surviving the Soft Depression of the 21st Century" and "Empire of Debt: The Rise of an Epic Financial Crisis", both by William Bonner, for a historical perspective and very well-written analysis of the current situation. Also read "The Great Bust Ahead: The Greatest Depression in American History" by Daniel A. Arnold. (See the Resources section, below.)


    <LI class=step sizset="3" sizcache="12" itxtHarvested="1" itxtNodeId="13">2 Plan. Make a plan for how to survive a total economic collapse. List your debts and assets. How quickly can you pay down your debt, while still purchasing necessary supplies? Your goals should include no debt and the procurement and storage of valuable assets. Your preparation timetable should be as short as possible.


    <LI class=step sizset="4" sizcache="12" itxtHarvested="1" itxtNodeId="12">3 Nix debt. Pay off debt and avoid new debt by paying with cash instead of credit cards. Concentrate on paying off high-interest debt, loans with adjustable rates and unsecured debts first. Sell expensive vehicles that have loans to pay off what you owe, and buy cheaper replacements using cash. In order to survive a total economic collapse, you need to have assets, not liabilities. (Note: storing food and resources are higher priority than paying down debt for families of modest means.)


    <LI class=step sizset="5" sizcache="12" itxtHarvested="1" itxtNodeId="11">4 Buy Silver. Change liquid savings into silver and gold. If the dollar collapses, having precious metals will preserve your money and it can be used as currency or exchanged for a currency with value, such as Swiss francs. As the dollar continues to lose value, silver dollars preserve their value or go up in value, thus protecting your assets in the event of a economic recession, allowing you to financially survive a recession or depression.


    <LI class=step sizset="6" sizcache="12" itxtHarvested="1" itxtNodeId="10">5 Invest wisely. Re-evaluate your stocks and mutualfunds. In order to financially survive a total economic collapse, your investments must be secure. Consider putting some of your stocks into gold (GLD) or opening a precious metals IRA. Research stocks that will survive a total economic collapse through sites like Daily Reckoning Day.


    <LI class=step sizset="7" sizcache="12" itxtHarvested="1" itxtNodeId="9">6 Store grain. Purchase goods and valuables such as guns for hunting and personal protection, and basic food supplies such as whole grains and legumes, which are easy to store. Invest in water purification bottles and tablets, and keep some bottled water on hand to meet immediate needs in the event of a shortage. All of these will make it more possible to survive a total economic collapse.


    <LI class=step sizset="8" sizcache="12" itxtHarvested="1" itxtNodeId="8">7 First aid. Prepare a First Aid Kit, sewing kit and other practical necessities of daily life to aid in survival of a total economic collapse. These are good things to have on hand anyway, for regular daily life as well as unforeseen emergencies.


    <LI class=step sizset="9" sizcache="12" itxtHarvested="1" itxtNodeId="7">8 Build community. Get to know your neighbors and build a community wherever you are. In the event of total economic collapse, life will become very local and survival will depend on working together with others, beginning with families.


    <LI class=step sizset="10" sizcache="12" itxtHarvested="1" itxtNodeId="6">9 Grow food. Grow some of your own food and raise animals for meat. Chickens and rabbits are small and easy to tend. Chickens provide eggs as well as meat and are excellent sources of protein and fat, both critical for survival. In economic downturns such as a recession or depression, being able to produce food is a important skill to have.

  • 10 Barter. Learn how to barter, and stock items to trade. Think about necessities (wool blankets, soap, boots, duct tape, ammunition) as well as luxuries (chocolate, tobacco, alcohol). Useful tools will be more valuable than money if there is a currency collapse. Useful barter items will be helpful to have on hand as you prepare to survive an economic collapse.

11. Do not attend pharmacy school. Drop out immediately if currently matriculated.
 
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I'm a 4th year and almost finished. Pharmacy was a very promising field when I first started school. Huge sign on bonuses...You could work anywhere you want straight out of school, even clinical jobs and could get sign on bonuses with a clinical job too...But a surplus of pharmacists has had a very negative impact on the profession and I can only see it getting worse. I doubt the economy will get better anytime soon. An economic collapse is likely to occur this year... The economy is only getting worse.

Did you learn this in the economics class that you took prior to pharmacy school?

It sounds like you went into the profession for financial purposes (given that you mentioned sign on bonuses twice in your post), things have changed and you'll actually have to look for a job like EVERYONE ELSE who is graduating from school. *gasp* PPPOOOOOOOORRRRRRR EEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVEEEEEEE!

If you would have taken economics as a pre-req prior to attending pharmacy school, logical economics would have told you that the field was becoming saturated. News Flash; Pharmacy was becoming saturated, you chose to look against it and at the "sign on bonuses." However, qualified applicants will be able to get a job and if you're not qualified, get your #$%# together and make yourself the best applicant that you can.

Having worked in the real world for 3 years in pharma R&D prior to starting pharmacy school this fall, I've had to bust my arse trying to get a job in my field while having EPIC student loan debt. It sucks balls, but it's what you have to do. Complaining about having to look for a job instead of having a surplus of positions with huge sign on bonuses is not going to garner much sympathy from members of the board (such as myself) who have had to hunt for jobs while having far less qualifications than a PharmD.
 
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