My first real anti-DO run in

[ad_sharp]

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JKD

You are contradicting yourself. You said you don't care about others perceptions of you and that you only want to be able to practice medicine. Well, you know that you will have no trouble practicing medicine as a DO. The only issue was the stigma or lack of respect that you are afraid of receiving as a DO. As a case in point, you raised the example of a couple of nursing students who look down upon DO's, and that has caused you to question pursuing osteopathic medicine. Obviously, you do care what others think of you which is why you wrote your post. Don't backtrack because you are getting criticized. Have the fortitude to at least stand by your opinion.

My advice would be to not apply to a DO school. If a couple of nursing students can make that much of an impression upon you then you aren't secure enough with being a DO. It's only going to get worse. Reapply to an M.D. school. Some people are affected by others opinions more than others. You happen to be one of these people. Be honest with yourself and stick to the M.D. You sound like you care too much about how others will perceive you. DO isn't for you.

Wow!
It's amazing that you can tell that much about someone from reading just a few posts on a message board. Why don't you just let this person make up their own mind rather than recommending that they throw their ambitions to the wind? Many DOs resent the "stigma" that is associated with the degree as a result of misguided public perception. This is not to say they are not proud of who they are. The "stigma" is one of the many factors that JKD and everybody else will have to consider when applying.

If you chose to go DO, more power to ya, but your decision should be tempered with a keen awareness that there are many people in this world who will not hold you to the same level as your MD counterparts (lower test scores and GPAs associated with some DO schools may be a monkey on your back)-not fair, but that's how it is. When I told people I was applying DO, I was asked about a million times (by average non-premed Americans) if I would go the couple of extra years to get my MD. I calmly explained (about a million times over) that the degrees are equivalent and terminal. I was as fully prepared to go DO as MD, but went MD for variety of reasons (I applied to both). It really didn't make any difference to me so long as I could act as a physician. Truth be told, there will be nurses and doctors who look down upon you for the degree. I've seen it firsthand in a DO hospital (of all places). You just have to be willing to live with the fact that some perceptions and stereotypes assigned to you will be unfair. Should that deter you from going DO if that is truly your heart's desire......heck no! It's just a little more nonsense to deal with (and a minor pain in the arse).

So, back to the OP. JKD don't let other people tell you what you want. You've got to do that for yourself. I've read many of your post, and I can tell that you're carrying around a very level head on your shoulders. You can use your own judgement without regard to others'. Best of Luck.

 

[ad_sharp]

Texoma Medical Center in Denison, TX .... ...at first we thought you were talking about a real hospital in a real city. NEXT

Point is that there are several branches throughout the North Texas area serving several rural and urban areas (this region is thought to be prime DO territory). Many of the DOs (maybe even the majority of OSU and TCOMs grads) choose to practice medicine in hospitals very similar to this one. I know for a fact that OSUCOM's mission is to train physicians for rural areas. If this hospital acts like this, who is to say that others don't? It was just my example.

 

[DrRichardKimble]

If you chose to go DO, more power to ya, but your decision should be tempered with a keen awareness that there are many people in this world who will not hold you to the same level as your MD counterparts (lower test scores and GPAs associated with some DO schools may be a monkey on your back) ... Truth be told, there will be nurses and doctors who look down upon you for the degree.

Do you think we should tell this guy that he's being looked down upon?
http://www.dsf.health.state.pa.us/health/cwp/view.asp?a=172&Q=228413

I think this attitude of ignorance I've seen displayed a million times over on SDN by individuals who haven't even passed a single exam in medical school yet invalidates their opinions in the future. My reason for following a career in osteopathic medicine is BECAUSE more than one allopath encouraged me to.

 

[ad_sharp]

Do you think we should tell this guy that he's being looked down upon?
http://www.dsf.health.state.pa.us/health/cwp/view.asp?a=172&Q=228413

I think this attitude of ignorance I've seen displayed a million times over on SDN by individuals who haven't even passed a single exam in medical school yet invalidates their opinions in the future. My reason for following a career in osteopathic medicine is BECAUSE more than one allopath encouraged me to.

I am not ignorant. I've spent the last two years in a hospital shadowing DOs. I have seen discrimination with my own eyes. I'm not saying that It's right. I'm just saying that it exists. I think that it is you who has chosen to close your eyes. I guess I just imagined it all up.

 

[Luck]

If you chose to go DO, more power to ya, but your decision should be tempered with a keen awareness that there are many people in this world who will not hold you to the same level as your MD counterparts (lower test scores and GPAs associated with some DO schools may be a monkey on your back)-not fair, but that's how it is.

The reality is people may look down on you because you went to OUCOM, or because you have a big head, or because you talk a lot of crap about DOs. People also look down on caribbean grads. People would look down on you if you were a slut or if you were a racist. People would look down on you if you were snobby or arrogant. People would look down on you if you're a nurse, a PA, or whatever.

So what's your point. There will always be someone looking down on you but who really gives a crap about what people think right.
Are you catching my drift. WHO GIVES F@#K. So take your BS argument elsewhere.

 

[ad_sharp]

You are completely missing the point of my post. All that I am trying to say is that you should accept the fact that discirmination exists before you enter Osteopathic medicine. I am not saying that my school is better or that I myself am better than a DO. I was almost a DO student myself-I have great respect for the profession and what it has been through. My greatgrandfather, one of the greatest men I have ever known, was a DO. There's really no point in getting mad and cursing. Could we please address what the OP originally intended? I didn't mean to turn this into an MD vs DO flame war.

 

[brighteyes]

The reality is people may look down on you because you went to OUCOM, or because you have a big head, or because you talk a lot of crap about DOs. People also look down on caribbean grads. People would look down on you if you were a slut or if you were a racist. People would look down on you if you were snobby or arrogant. People would look down on you if you're a nurse, a PA, or whatever.

Ooooo burned him good, I love to see these snotty allopaths get their comeuppins. He's all goin to that evil MD school and he does have a big head. F uck him he hates DO's he's probably some rich kid that wakes up everyday and has to pull the silver spoon outta his mouth. Some people are 29 with 3 kids and wanna be a doc are you saying they shouldnt? Cuz some so called MD schools sure think so.

 

[ad_sharp]

Ooooo burned him good, I love to see these snotty allopaths get their comeuppins. He's all goin to that evil MD school and he does have a big head. F uck him he hates DO's he's probably some rich kid that wakes up everyday and has to pull the silver spoon outta his mouth. Some people are 29 with 3 kids and wanna be a doc are you saying they shouldnt? Cuz some so called MD schools sure think so.

Yeah, burned me good (500 on one). I'm really rich. I'm 22 years old, married, and have survived off little more than our financial aid for the last two years. Grew up below the poverty line. Wooden spoon more like it. You say that I have a nasty ego, seems like all of the assults are coming from the other direction.

 

[DrRichardKimble]

I am not ignorant. I've spent the last two years in a hospital shadowing DOs. I have seen discrimination with my own eyes. I'm not saying that It's right. I'm just saying that it exists. I think that it is you who has chosen to close your eyes. I guess I just imagined it all up.

Are you really that clueless? I hope that you get one of those "DO's" when you are on rotations or one of those god forsaken DO attendings during your residency. Maybe when you have their ear you could tell them that many people look down on them? I'm betting you don't have the guts to do that though...

As far as discrimination against the field of osteopathic medicine goes, I know it exists, you are a shining example of that brand of ignorance.

 

[ad_sharp]

Are you really that clueless? I hope that you get one of those "DO's" when you are on rotations or one of those god forsaken DO attendings during your residency. Maybe when you have their ear you could tell them that many people look down on them? I'm betting you don't have the guts to do that though...

As far as discrimination against the field of osteopathic medicine goes, I know it exists, you are a shining example of that brand of ignorance.

Do't put words in my mouth. I never said that DOs are inferior. I just said that the impression exists among SOME people and it is wrong. And yes, I have talked at length with the DO that I shadowed about these issues. Sorry if I offended. It was not my intent.

 

[jhug]

i'm reading this and feeling a bit confused. i don't think our friend here from oklahoma is saying anything bad about osteopathy...he's simply stating that there are some that will look down on you bc of the DO thing...no big deal...not a huge enlightening breakthrough concept...but well intentioned none-the-less...and in light of the OP a good comment to hear.
Luck is right, you'll cross people that don't like you bc of your religion/hair color/sex...profession...who cares?!
and DrRK provided a good example of why we shouldn't care...people that work hard and don't let any "stigmas" get to them are successful in whatever they do.

 

[ad_sharp]

i'm reading this and feeling a bit confused. i don't think our friend here from oklahoma is saying anything bad about osteopathy...he's simply stating that there are some that will look down on you bc of the DO thing...no big deal...not a huge enlightening breakthrough concept...but well intentioned none-the-less...and in light of the OP a good comment to hear.

Thank you, I'm dying in these flames here.........getting hot. 😳

 

[ArmyDoc1999]

It is sooo refreshing to see a group of highly educated adults carry on an intelligent conversation, open to many different opinions, without taking anything personally. (Heavy Sarcasm)

 

[OSUdoc08]

you people are too funny......

 

[Robz]

Thank you, I'm dying in these flames here.........getting hot. 😳

I got your back bro.....

(there are some here that hate stupid repetive arguments.....I got a search option if I miss them) 😉

 

[Luck]

ad_sharp, you deserved to be flamed and this is why.

If you chose to go DO, more power to ya, but your decision should be tempered with a keen awareness that there are many people in this world who will not hold you to the same level as your MD counterparts (lower test scores and GPAs associated with some DO schools may be a monkey on your back)-not fair, but that's how it is.

As I said, there will always be someone looking down on you so this is a weak argument as to why you shouldn't choose DO. There will be many people who do view the DO degree as equal to the MD particularly patients. When patients see a guy come in with a white coat and say he's a doctor, that automatically commands respect whether it be MD or DO. Your MD-centrist opinion that people view DOs not as equal as MD is invalid here.

Point is that there are several branches throughout the North Texas area serving several rural and urban areas (this region is thought to be prime DO territory). Many of the DOs (maybe even the majority of OSU and TCOMs grads) choose to practice medicine in hospitals very similar to this one. I know for a fact that OSUCOM's mission is to train physicians for rural areas. If this hospital acts like this, who is to say that others don't? It was just my example.

You said that there were no DOs in that hospital and drusso found one. That is a strike against your credibility. You gave an example of one instance of discrimination against DOs as if that is the norm. I can give you examples of when caribbean MDs and even MD students of lower tier MD schools were discriminated against. If that hospital does act like that even though your statement was proven wrong, then that does not necessarily mean that other hospitals act like that around the area. Again you're trying to make an argument based on speculation and that is weak.

I am not ignorant. I've spent the last two years in a hospital shadowing DOs. I have seen discrimination with my own eyes. I'm not saying that It's right. I'm just saying that it exists. I think that it is you who has chosen to close your eyes. I guess I just imagined it all up.

Your credibility has already been questioned. Now you are saying you have seen discrimination against DOs in a few instances and you are putting a veil saying that in general DOs are discriminated again. Again, just because of one experience does not make it true.

You turned this into a flame war when you made statements that were based on one experience that you had about DOs. This is not a valid argument and until you can provide evidence that DO discrimination exists as you would have people to believe on a country wide basis, your argument is weak and should not be taken seriously.

When you bring a weak argument against DOs to the DO forum, you don't expect to get flamed? Quite the contrary you deserved to be flamed.

 

[fab4fan]

I'm not sure why there is a perception by some that a DO is "lesser" than an MD. I've been a nurse for 20y and spent several years working at a hospital that was used for DO student rotations. Many of the docs I worked with were DOs. I just didn't see a difference when it came to clinical practice.

Truth be told, I preferred working with DOs. They seemed genuinely interested in teaching and were for the most part more approachable.

I don't know of any nurse who wants to be addressed as, "Nurse Smith" or whatever his/her last name is. That is just laughable. Maybe in the 1950's, but now...not so much.

 

[(nicedream)]

The reality is people may look down on you because you went to OUCOM, or because you have a big head, or because you talk a lot of crap about DOs. People also look down on caribbean grads. People would look down on you if you were a slut or if you were a racist. People would look down on you if you were snobby or arrogant. People would look down on you if you're a nurse, a PA, or whatever.

So what's your point. There will always be someone looking down on you but who really gives a crap about what people think right.
Are you catching my drift. WHO GIVES F@#K. So take your BS argument elsewhere.

I'm a racist slutty graduate of a caribbean DO school.

 

[Fin-Nor]

I got your back bro.....

(there are some here that hate stupid repetive arguments.....I got a search option if I miss them) 😉

likewise... i think i've seen ad sharp post here in the preDO forums for a while now and havent seen any negitive talks of DO from him. i think there's a major misunderstanding and that y'all are being way too defensive about your chosen path.

 

[DD214_DOC]

This is pathetic. Leave ad_sharp alone, he's NOT BASHING DO's! Christ. I'm actually somewhat worried that some of you will get into medical school.

Ad was just stating, as I was, there there are people out there who do descriminate against DO's for various reasons. It seems my post wasn't in vain, as many of you seem to be in some sort of denial that some people don't like DO's.

Stop reacting emotionally and take some time to comprehend and analyze what he (and I) have both said. These overzealous and irrational reactions evidence the possibility of a lack of security for many of you who have chosen osteopathy.

 

[OrthoFixation]

Lay off ad sharp, I have seen nothing flameworthy. Maybe some misconceptions, but his central statement the some portion of the population does not view DO=MD is accurate.

I think it has nothing to do with entrance stats. John Doe Public has no idea what any schools stats are whether allo or osteo. Only the big names in medicine carry any clout. Schools like Harvard, Mayo, Hopkins, etc.

The real misconception is concentrated in the older segments of the population (my theory). I think it has to do with DO's not having hospital privileges, not being recognized by the AMA, and being forced to have their own hospitals. Many in this older generation still call DO's "bone Docs."

These misconceptions are slowly fading away. Anyone under 50 yrs with this attitude probably has many elitist thoughts associated with other groups of people as well. Ignore them. No matter what field you look at, someone is always looking down on another.

I guarantee you an elitist minded person that is injured, losing blood, or otherwise incapacitated and facing serious health consequences will immediately put aside these misconceptions when put behind the eight ball with their life on the line. They will be thankful for any doctor or otherwise that can solve their problem.

In the next 20 years the DO stigma will slowly disappear. But some people will always look down on other groups. It is human nature to classify and stratify.

 

[KatieOConnor]

I agree that the DO stigma will slowly disappear. My uncle's been having back problems, and I asked if he'd ever gone to a DO (I think the philosophy is particularly suited to people with back problems) and he said yes, the doctor he usually goes to is a DO. I mentioned that DOs usually don't get a lot of respect and he said "Why?" genuinely confused. I explained that DOs are far fewer than MDs, they apply to different schools, etc... and he looked like he couldn't care less, he just agreed that the DO philosophy is very good for those with back problems.

Most people have had little or no experience with DOs and this leads to misconceptions. Most of those who HAVE gone to or worked with DOs do not have these misconceptions, so I think as the numbers grow, and more people hear about DOs, the respect level will increase.

 

[Bandit]

nursing students oh, thats rich!

 

[Tippy007]

I'm applying to MD schools, not DO, but I came across this thread. So here's my $0.02.

That is absurd. DO's are the medical and legal equivalent of MD's and should be respected as such. These two nurses are not your friends and sound insecure about their position in their careers. They are trying to sabotage you, so their comments should flow out of your mind like water off a ducks back.

 

[trauma_junky]

hmm, sounds like the tables turn pretty quickly though, don't they? i feel like more nurses complain about not getting adequate respect than any doctors DO or MD. not every nursing student out there is a gaylord fokker. if you're a DO, all your patients will call you doctor and you'll get a doctors $, it just might be, in fact, you'll actually be a doctor, and in the end, thats what really matters, or so i've heard.

If there is somethig to b!tch about a nurse will do it adnauseum.

 

[Cuthbert]

Ooooo burned him good, I love to see these snotty allopaths get their comeuppins. He's all goin to that evil MD school and he does have a big head. F uck him he hates DO's he's probably some rich kid that wakes up everyday and has to pull the silver spoon outta his mouth. Some people are 29 with 3 kids and wanna be a doc are you saying they shouldnt? Cuz some so called MD schools sure think so.

I think you need to be cut down here. Comments like that give DO's a bad name. I'm at school at Des Moines University (love it) and have many soon-to-be MD friends at the University of Iowa. They are awesome, they don't look down on me and I don't look down on them. We all need to show an equal respect here. You need a better attitude.

I think that most here could agree that there has been a common theme throughout these comments. There is discrimination in the world. Against DO's, RN's, MD's (see above) and others. In the desicion of picking a medical school, you must do research yourself and follow your heart. With that said, I do not think that it is a valid argument to say that you should think twice about being a DO because you may be descriminated against. You will face this at times no matter what dirrection you go, and for different reasons. If we all followed this line of reasoning, we would be hiding with out heads in the sand fearing rejection. Rise above it people, you're all better than that.

 

[Gleevec]

You guys are crazy in flaming adsharp, he hasnt said anything wrong.

And frankly, by acting like a bunch of spoiled PMS-ridden moral superiors, well, you have to wonder why some people would choose to look down on you.

Trust me, some of you aren't helping your cause of bringing more respect to the profession by acting like prissy constipated sorority girls lashing out at anyone who makes an observation that is *gasp* contrary to your overly rosy view of your degree.

In a way, some of you, like Luck and brighteyes especially, are lucky you have more mature and educated DO counterparts in some of the posters on this thread and in other forums (like DrMom and QuinnNSU), because they more than make up for the disgrace you bring to your degree.

 

[JohnDO]

Seriously, it's embarassing.

 

[medic170]

Seriously, it's embarassing.

I agree with you John.

 

[Luck]

I guess I was becoming a bit too defensive. I apologize for this.

 

[Lee]

I think this thread has come full circle. Closing.