my pre-interview rank list

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YoungPsychDoc

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Just in case you're curious, if I were to submit my rank list tomorrow, having only interviewed at 2 schools, it would look like this:

1 MGH
2 Columbia
3 Yale
4 Stanford
5 Duke
6 Longwood
7 Cambridge
8 NYU
9 Cornell
10 UNC
11 MSSM
12 BU
13 Tufts
14 WF
15 UW

Obviously the list is likely to change based on interview experience. Any thoughts?
 
these things are so individual. given that you ranked UW below WF (and indeed tufts and BU) suggests you have some tie to NC and Boston as I wouldn't even rank those programs. You have Duke fairly high up (which again was a DNR for me) so again you must have some tie to NC. I would rather gouge my eyes out than live in New Haven and Stanford is curiously high up your rank list. I think you should wait until you have interviewed at more places, and remember that your rank list is based on your perceived prestige and location (I can't think what else) so it is hard for others to pass comment on. This really is an individual personal thing.
 
splik said:
these things are so individual. given that you ranked UW below WF (and indeed tufts and BU) suggests you have some tie to NC and Boston as I wouldn't even rank those programs. You have Duke fairly high up (which again was a DNR for me) so again you must have some tie to NC. I would rather gouge my eyes out than live in New Haven and Stanford is curiously high up your rank list. I think you should wait until you have interviewed at more places, and remember that your rank list is based on your perceived prestige and location (I can't think what else) so it is hard for others to pass comment on. This really is an individual personal thing.
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Making lists is still fun though, isn't it splik? Didn't someone like doing those a lot last year? Or are you just upset because your program is curiously low on this list? 😉 Everyone has their own different criteria that you can sometimes see through. I'll throw in my (not so) random regional list right now:

1. Pitt
2. Wash U
3. UIC
4. IU
5. NW
6. Cinci
7. Case Western
8. Ohio St.
9. Wayne St.
10. MCW
11. UMich
12. Iowa
13. Wisc
14. Mayo

I'm looking for a midwest program with some inner-city pathology and leans on the biological side. Most of those cities people on this board wouldn't dream of living in because everything revolves around the coasts in their eyes. Any thoughts?
 
splik said:
these things are so individual. given that you ranked UW below WF (and indeed tufts and BU) suggests you have some tie to NC and Boston as I wouldn't even rank those programs. You have Duke fairly high up (which again was a DNR for me) so again you must have some tie to NC. I would rather gouge my eyes out than live in New Haven and Stanford is curiously high up your rank list. I think you should wait until you have interviewed at more places, and remember that your rank list is based on your perceived prestige and location (I can't think what else) so it is hard for others to pass comment on. This really is an individual personal thing.
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Yes Splik, I think you of all people should appreciate lists without concern for the quality of evidence on which they are based 🙂

And New Haven is awesome, btw. A statement I am happy to defend to the death!
 
After five interviews I would say it's made it increasingly difficult to figure out how to formulate a rank list I feel comfortable with.
 
My pre-interview (had I done one -- I didn't) and post-interview rank lists would have been pretty different, so it's a fun thread, but I'm hoping you guys are open to changing things around based on what you see on interview day. Of course the bigger issue is that you might think you want something now that you really don't or not know that you want something. For example, I'm really happy I train in a city with a psychoanalytic institute and had maybe a minor inkling but no major idea that that would be something I should look for.

Now, splik, your program, which is a great program, actually dropped on my list after interviewing because it felt too big for me, and I remembered that I like the other big NW city a little more. I, too, though, am scratching my head at YPD's bottom listing for it. Why the hate for UW, YPD? 🙂
 
No hate for UW - I only applied to places I like a lot or at least think I would like a lot. I got interviews at some schools that I didn't even rank. Seattle was kind of "meh" but the program seemed really good during my interview. I wonder if we met Splik - wouldn't that have been cool?
 
YoungPsychDoc said:
Just in case you're curious, if I were to submit my rank list tomorrow, having only interviewed at 2 schools, it would look like this:

1 MGH
2 Columbia
3 Yale
4 Stanford
5 Duke
6 Longwood
7 Cambridge
8 NYU
9 Cornell
10 UNC
11 MSSM
12 BU
13 Tufts
14 WF
15 UW

Obviously the list is likely to change based on interview experience. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

What do you want to get out of a residency program?

The first 4 on your list are great places to do research and start an academic career. Yale definitely affords the most elective, and probably has the friendliest reputation, with Stanford close behind. MGH and Columbia offer incredible opportunities and you'll be around some of the greatest minds of our generation, but they'll definitely put you through the grind.
 
Salpingo said:
What do you want to get out of a residency program?

The first 4 on your list are great places to do research and start an academic career. Yale definitely affords the most elective, and probably has the friendliest reputation, with Stanford close behind. MGH and Columbia offer incredible opportunities and you'll be around some of the greatest minds of our generation, but they'll definitely put you through the grind.
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You highlight an important consideration when looking at programs from the perspective of starting an academic career. Whilst funding and strong faculty are essential, it is really nice if the program is open minded about allowing you to follow your own research interests, rather than pushing you to focus on the existing projects within the department. Sure, if the department is actively engaged in a project you would love to be involved in, this is less of a concern, but personally I really value the opportunity to pursue independent investigation.
 
SmallBird said:
Sure, if the department is actively engaged in a project you would love to be involved in, this is less of a concern, but personally I really value the opportunity to pursue independent investigation.
Click to expand...

Btw am trying to do a project you might be interested in looking at US psych residents explanatory models of common mental disorders...
 
I'm looking to head West, and have no desire to go into academia. Seeing all kinds of pathology, having autonomy, having really high morale, and working with great attendings as well as having solid reputation are my measures.

1. Harbor UCLA
2. UC Davis
3. UCSF
4. UCSD
5. Stanford
6. UCLA - NPI
7. Univ of Hawaii

Things may change but based on the road so far I feel pretty good about my list.
 
BS81 said:
Making lists is still fun though, isn't it splik? Didn't someone like doing those a lot last year? Or are you just upset because your program is curiously low on this list? 😉 Everyone has their own different criteria that you can sometimes see through. I'll throw in my (not so) random regional list right now:

1. Pitt
2. Wash U
3. UIC
4. IU
5. NW
6. Cinci
7. Case Western
8. Ohio St.
9. Wayne St.
10. MCW
11. UMich
12. Iowa
13. Wisc
14. Mayo

I'm looking for a midwest program with some inner-city pathology and leans on the biological side. Most of those cities people on this board wouldn't dream of living in because everything revolves around the coasts in their eyes. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

That's a rock solid list for the midwest, although I will say a bit on the long side, you certainly wouldn't need anywhere near 14 interviews if you got offers at all 14 of those programs (1/2 that would suffice). Having trained exclusively in the midwest and having both my medical school and current residency on that list, along with interviewing at several other of those programs, I would happy to discuss anything further with you on private message.

I definitely think Pitt is the number 1 choice for what you want (and I have never trained/worked there). There are some schools with great inner-city pathology (which is freaking awesome during training btw) on there, but the rest of the list I would probably defer publicly ranking for risk of sounding biased.
 
I have to say being halfway done with interviews I feel more rather than less confused regarding my rank list. Anyone else in the same boat? I guess I'll figure things out when I see the remaining programs!
 
I only have a few interviews left and its going to be very difficult to rank. I'd be happy at most of them.
 
I don't know if this is common or a waste, but when I was ranking, I made an index card for each program. The cards were divided into sections where I put the info for that program on a certain issue that mattered to me. This allowed me to easily compare one program to another and move them around in a rank list. It helped me to have this visual for figuring out what to do.
 
Here is my revised rank list. I don''t plan to rank the 2nd list of programs just based on my experiences.

MGH
Yale
Columbia
Duke
Longwood
Cornell
Tufts
Sinai
Wake Forest

NYU (unsure, interview pending)
UW (geographic reasons)
UNC (not impressed)
AE (bad interview experience)
BU (no psych hosp)
Stanford (geographic reasons)
CHA (ingratiating applicants)
 
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YoungPsychDoc said:
Here is my revised rank list. I don''t plan to rank the 2nd list of programs just based on my experiences.

MGH
Yale
Columbia
Duke
Longwood
Cornell
Tufts
Sinai
Wake Forest

NYU (unsure, interview pending)
UW (geographic reasons)
UNC (not impressed)
AE (bad interview experience)
BU (no psych hosp)
Stanford (geographic reasons)
CHA (ingratiating applicants)
Click to expand...

Congrats on having gotten so many good interviews. I think your rank list is great!
 
There are reasons to nix CHA if you're claustrophobic, but "ingratiating applicants" is not one. Those applicants will probably match at MGH or Longwood or somewhere else other than CHA anyway. There are reasons to avoid BU like the plague but where does "no psych hospital" come into it? Mt Sinai doesn't have a psych hospital either, nor Tufts, nor Longwood unless you think Mass Mental Health is a "hospital". I would probably nix Tufts as well.
 
What are we calling a psych hospital here? No free-standing psych hospital, a la Sheppard-Pratt or Mclean?
 
YoungPsychDoc said:
Here is my revised rank list. I don''t plan to rank the 2nd list of programs just based on my experiences.

NYU (unsure, interview pending)
UW (geographic reasons)
UNC (not impressed)
AE (bad interview experience)
BU (no psych hosp)
Stanford (geographic reasons)
CHA (ingratiating applicants)
Click to expand...

That was a lot of interviews! 😵 I'm feeling better about canceling three because I realized I didn't really want to move to those cities, and I'm hoping they can give my spot to someone who actually does. =\

I've got a good idea of how I'm ranking the ten I went on/am going on, but I'm waiting to finish interviewing before I decide about the middle of my list. Top and bottom are certain.
 
Can someone explain to me the idea of not ranking a program? Having already gone on the interview, what do you gain by leaving it off your list? Would you rather not match at all than attend those programs? That seems a little harsh...

YoungPsychDoc said:
Here is my revised rank list. I don''t plan to rank the 2nd list of programs just based on my experiences.

NYU (unsure, interview pending)
UW (geographic reasons)
UNC (not impressed)
AE (bad interview experience)
BU (no psych hosp)
Stanford (geographic reasons)
CHA (ingratiating applicants)
Click to expand...
 
buckyboy484 said:
Can someone explain to me the idea of not ranking a program? Having already gone on the interview, what do you gain by leaving it off your list? Would you rather not match at all than attend those programs? That seems a little harsh...
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If you look at charting outcomes in the match, there isn't a need to rank that many programs in order to match in psychiatry. The OP based on his interview opportunities alone will match at his/her #1 or #2 .
 
Thepsychisright said:
If you look at charting outcomes in the match, there isn't a need to rank that many programs in order to match in psychiatry. The OP based on his interview opportunities alone will match at his/her #1 or #2 .
Click to expand...

It's still a foolish decision to not rank programs unless you find them horrendous. I think most of it is SDN bravado - "look at me, I'm not ranking a bunch of great programs".
 
Thepsychisright said:
If you look at charting outcomes in the match, there isn't a need to rank that many programs in order to match in psychiatry. The OP based on his interview opportunities alone will match at his/her #1 or #2 .
Click to expand...

This reasoning also doesn't make sense. If there isn't a need to rank more programs to match then you wouldn't match at those programs anyway. However, since this is only hypothetical pending the actual match results, you're increasing chances of not matching. Every program I'm interviewing at is getting ranked. Granted, I did my homework and dodged programs I knew I wouldn't like, but still.
 
st2205 said:
This reasoning also doesn't make sense. If there isn't a need to rank more programs to match then you wouldn't match at those programs anyway. However, since this is only hypothetical pending the actual match results, you're increasing chances of not matching. Every program I'm interviewing at is getting ranked. Granted, I did my homework and dodged programs I knew I wouldn't like, but still.
Click to expand...

Exactly. You would only go to those programs if fate demanded it. According to the above logic, the person would rather take the chance of ending up at The Latvian Repository of Psychiatric Compliance than attending Stanford or UW.
 
st2205 said:
This reasoning also doesn't make sense. If there isn't a need to rank more programs to match then you wouldn't match at those programs anyway. However, since this is only hypothetical pending the actual match results, you're increasing chances of not matching. Every program I'm interviewing at is getting ranked. Granted, I did my homework and dodged programs I knew I wouldn't like, but still.
Click to expand...

I agree that there is no benefit to not raking all of the programs, as the OP would probably rather end up at NYU than into a scramble spot somewhere else. Although the risk that s/he is taking by not ranking those "undesirable" programs is also very low given his/her competitiveness
 
My rank list is in a constant state of flux and will no doubt go through many iterations. I didn't mean to imply any of those programs in the 2nd list are bad for any reason. I think they are great for some people and I may just end up ranking them all for safety's sake. I only put a portion of the programs in my tentative rank list because people keep saying we are all likely get one of our top 3.
 
YoungPsychDoc said:
I only put a portion of the programs in my tentative rank list because people keep saying we are all likely get one of our top 3.
Click to expand...

So then what would it hurt to rank those at the end of your list? The way I see it (and the way it is) is that you've only got something to lose by not ranking, unless you think you'd be happier SOAPing into some random program in Anytown USA than end up at the places you've interviewed at.
 
MDchouette said:
What are we calling a psych hospital here? No free-standing psych hospital, a la Sheppard-Pratt or Mclean?
Click to expand...

Poor choice of wording on my part - I meant they don't have a psych unit. That seemed important to me.
 
splik said:
There are reasons to nix CHA if you're claustrophobic, but "ingratiating applicants" is not one. Those applicants will probably match at MGH or Longwood or somewhere else other than CHA anyway. There are reasons to avoid BU like the plague but where does "no psych hospital" come into it? Mt Sinai doesn't have a psych hospital either, nor Tufts, nor Longwood unless you think Mass Mental Health is a "hospital". I would probably nix Tufts as well.
Click to expand...

I just want to make sure that nothing misleading gets propagated here...

Assuming "psych hospital" = inpatient psych unit:

BU residents rotate at Bournewood (an inpatient psych hospital that I believe also has dual diagnosis--not sure) but there isn't an inpatient psych unit at BMC as far as I know.

Tufts has an inpatient unit that I believe is a med-psych unit. Or, at least, they take medically complicated patients.

At my program, Longwood, we definitely do have inpatient units -- two of them. One at Beth Israel and another at Faulkner Hospital, which is affiliated with Brigham and Women's. Faulkner is not in the Longwood area (5-15 minute drive depending on traffic) but it is worth the short drive. I feel fortunate to have rotated there. They provide excellent care at every level.

Mass Mental had inpatient units back in the day, but now the highest level of care there is partial hospitalization -- one with DBT for borderline PD, and another with CBT for psychotic disorders.
 
This is just for fun. I have an adviser at my school. I did some soul-searching and cancelled my remaining interviews. Here is my "final" rank list, please comment as you will (agree or disagree):

1) Columbia
2) Cornell
3) Duke
4) Stanford
5) Wake Forest
6) Tufts
7) Sinai
8) NYU
9) CHA
10) UW
11) UNC
12) BU

Most important factors are location (big, urban area), quality of training, and supportive environment. I realize my interview experiences cannot be generalized but they are also a factor. Case in point I felt the interviewers at Yale were rude, so I moved them down the list. That is just my experience though. I also really like programs that seem to "want" me - maybe it's my vulnerable psyche coming out. It seems like a good list, right?
 
I didn't apply to an NY programs. It's a whole other world in New York I don't complete understand.

Stanford makes no sense on your list. Palo Alto offers tech-savvy intellectual middle and upper class sitting in an ocean of suburbia and corporate business parks. Furthermore, Stanford is heavily VA and the upper crust who go to Stanford Hospital. Did you interview there? But the name sounds great on paper and when you tell your friends.
 
YoungPsychDoc said:
This is just for fun. I have an adviser at my school. I did some soul-searching and cancelled my remaining interviews. Here is my "final" rank list, please comment as you will (agree or disagree):

1) Columbia
2) Cornell
3) Duke
4) Stanford
5) Wake Forest
6) Tufts
7) Sinai
8) NYU
9) CHA
10) UW
11) UNC
12) BU

Most important factors are location (big, urban area), quality of training, and supportive environment. I realize my interview experiences cannot be generalized but they are also a factor. Case in point I felt the interviewers at Yale were rude, so I moved them down the list. That is just my experience though. I also really like programs that seem to "want" me - maybe it's my vulnerable psyche coming out. It seems like a good list, right?
Click to expand...

What happened in 3 days that made you so radically alter your list? You must be the only person who interviewed at MGH who isn't even ranking them.
 
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SmallBird said:
What happened in 3 days that made you so radically alter your list? You must be the only person who interviewed at MGH who isn't even raking them.
Click to expand...

Not only MGH, but he/she dropped Yale and Longwood, suggesting a Boston problem on 2 of them - I despise Boston myself, so just curious?

I am not judging the poster - I find it interesting to read these kinds of fluid before and after rankings.

I agree with another poster that Stanford seems out of place on this list given stated preferences.
 
NYCMS2 said:
I am not judging the poster - I find it interesting to read these kinds of fluid before and after rankings.
Click to expand...

Agreed, no judgement intended. But I think that it would be useful to other applicants to know what motivated some of these dramatic changes!
 
Well, I had interviewed everywhere on the list but MGH and Longwood. I decided to cancel those interviews. Good or bad idea? I did 14 interviews as of Friday. These last 2 interviews would have required me to fly back to Boston at the end of January; I'm not keen on flying. I also heard on the trail MGH is pretentious and maybe not the most supportive place to train.
 
YoungPsychDoc said:
Well, I had interviewed everywhere on the list but MGH and Longwood. I decided to cancel those interviews. Good or bad idea? I did 14 interviews as of Friday. These last 2 interviews would have required me to fly back to Boston at the end of January; I'm not keen on flying. I also heard on the trail MGH is pretentious and maybe not the most supportive place to train.
Click to expand...

Well you could always go and see for yourself, instead of relying on the scuttlebutt.
(I was going to say that maybe you have no interest in living in Boston, but I see that you're still interested in Tufts and BU. I'm not much of a cheerleader for "prestige", but MGH and Longwood would both qualify as having it, and maybe have earned the right to be perceived as "pretentious" by lesser minds.
 
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YoungPsychDoc said:
Good or bad idea?
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Hard to say - to 99% of people I would say that it seems like a bad idea to not attend interviews at Longwood and MGH if you are planning on ranking Tufts and BU. But to be honest, your reasoning about programs seems, if nothing else, very specific, making it difficult to comment.
 
YoungPsychDoc said:
I'm not keen on flying. I also heard on the trail MGH is pretentious and maybe not the most supportive place to train.
Click to expand...

This is ironic considering Columbia is top of your list! They are both pretentious and rightly so. MGH is no less "supportive" than Columbia in that they are not warm and fuzzy places. But at MGH you will absolutely be supported in developing your academic, clinical, and educational interests with the big names in the field who will only be too happy to mentor you and include you in what they are doing. Certainly that was my experience (and still is) and I'm not even a resident there!

There is probably not much sense in ranking as many places as you have - if you cant match into wake forest or tufts you're not gonna match at CHA, UW, etc!
 
I also don't understand ranking BU and Tufts but not Longwood or MGH. MGH is more formal (that was my impression at the interview, and they do have that silly "Man's Greatest Hospital" nickname), but I would put Longwood on the warm and fuzzy spectrum.

All that said, with a list of invites like that, I bet you'll match in your top two. I look forward to seeing where you end up!
 
MDchouette said:
I also don't understand ranking BU and Tufts but not Longwood or MGH. MGH is more formal (that was my impression at the interview, and they do have that silly "Man's Greatest Hospital" nickname), but I would put Longwood on the warm and fuzzy spectrum.

All that said, with a list of invites like that, I bet you'll match in your top two. I look forward to seeing where you end up!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice and warm wishes. Having spent a few weeks in NYC, I've grown rather keen on living there. Basically I feel really good about my rank list and really want to match there. Any advice on what to do next? Should I tell the PD I am ranking them first? What's the best time to do so? Thanks!!!
 
YoungPsychDoc said:
Thanks for the advice and warm wishes. Having spent a few weeks in NYC, I've grown rather keen on living there. Basically I feel really good about my rank list and really want to match there. Any advice on what to do next? Should I tell the PD I am ranking them first? What's the best time to do so? Thanks!!!
Click to expand...
I don't think there's a best time. My impression is that my program keeps track of things all the way through. If you're done interviewing and want to tell your #1 now, then I would go for it. I would think too early is better than too late.

Again, best of luck to you and to everyone matching.
 
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