my semi-solicited advice

[MAC12383]

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[MAC12383]

ah, I always feel bad about this. some schools may do it differently but we don't intentionally try to hold up any application. the reason that's most common is the interviewer didn't submit his/her eval by the cutoff time before the meeting, or he/she did and then subsequently was unable to attend the meeting (sometimes for a few weeks in a row) ie, not every committee member is present for every single meeting. after that the applicant is discussed once and the fate is sealed. then they have to print the letter, get it all signed and sent out, etc. occasionally there will be a special circumstance, for instance waiting on fall grades or waiting for a consult with the school's legal counsel for one reason or another. our committee meets nearly every week and we try to get them out as soon as possible.

Thanks, eases the pain a little. Probably a long shot, but any chance you could tell us what school you're at? or at least in what city or geographic region?

 

[adcomm]

Thanks, eases the pain a little. Probably a long shot, but any chance you could tell us what school you're at? or at least in what city or geographic region?

that's a long shot. it's an urban school.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

i am a nontrad, and i have been working near full time, going to school full time, and being a father to a baby (will have 2 about the application process). Because of this my GPA has slipped slightly. Is this something i should mention to the med schools or will it be unbeneficial? and if it is beneficial is it something i should mention right away (like in my personal statement)?

 

[DoctorPardi]

I go to a relatively unknown small town liberal arts university in Alabama (the University of Montevallo ~3,000 students, mainly art/music/education majors).

How much does my university's reputation or lack there of effect my application?

Currently I have a 3.67 gpa and hope to graduate with a 3.8, but schools will have no idea how difficult my college is, or how hard it is to get a biology degree here. Also considering that every year we only have about 2-3 people apply to medical school from my university. Usually these people are very serious applicants and often all of them or 2/3 , 3/4 get accepted to one of my state schools.

So I am less worried about UAB or South Alabama not accepting me, or at least not knowing about my university, but say I apply to Vanderbilt, or Boston will them having no clue where Montevallo is play any role in me being accepted or not?

 

[McMD]

DoctorPardi...Maybe adcomm will agree with me on this one, but it can actually benefit you more than hurt you that you went to a liberal arts school. It may show that you are more "well-rounded" than the biology students who ONLY talk to bio majors and other pre-meds. It also shows that you probably have more skills than just science!

Adcomm....what region of the US are you in? NE, SE, NW, SW, or the midwest? 😳)

 

[Depakote]

Hi adcomm,

Thanks for answering the questions.

OK, I'm on a waitlist at a school I really love. I've already sent them a strongly worded letter of intent. Something to the extent:

"If accepted, I will withdraw all my other applications and attend your school."

I sent this letter the day after I got my waitlist letter. Is there anything else I can/should be doing after dropping the I-Bomb?

 

[DoctorPardi]

DoctorPardi...Maybe adcomm will agree with me on this one, but it can actually benefit you more than hurt you that you went to a liberal arts school. It may show that you are more "well-rounded" than the biology students who ONLY talk to bio majors and other pre-meds. It also shows that you probably have more skills than just science!

Adcomm....what region of the US are you in? NE, SE, NW, SW, or the midwest? 😳)

I feel like I painted the wrong picture of my university. I personally love going there, I like the atmosphere, I like the professors, I like that class sizes are almost never over 20, unless it is a big lecture class like gen chem (tops out around 32).

So I love the education I'm getting, I feel like the school is really great and I would be proud to have my kids go to Montevallo, however the name recognition is my biggest concern. Also let me point out, it isn't like this is a really exclusive school, almost any GPA/ACT/SAT can you get in to Montevallo but I like it that much more, that students who screwed around in high school can go to a great college and have quality professors and a great education. (My high school GPA was a ~ 2.8 lol...playing everquest in high school will kill a gpa like nothing else)

 

[McMD]

Well, if they don't accept you/interview you because they've never heard of your school...do you really want to go there anyway?

 

[AnEyeLikeMars]

ah, I always feel bad about this. some schools may do it differently but we don't intentionally try to hold up any application. the reason that's most common is the interviewer didn't submit his/her eval by the cutoff time before the meeting, or he/she did and then subsequently was unable to attend the meeting (sometimes for a few weeks in a row) ie, not every committee member is present for every single meeting. after that the applicant is discussed once and the fate is sealed. then they have to print the letter, get it all signed and sent out, etc. occasionally there will be a special circumstance, for instance waiting on fall grades or waiting for a consult with the school's legal counsel for one reason or another. our committee meets nearly every week and we try to get them out as soon as possible.

I'm just curious, why would you need to consult with legal counsel before making an admissions decision?

 

[LizzyM]

How often do most adcom's meet, and why do they take so long to give responses post-interview? I'm assuming they meet somewhat often (at least once every 3 or 4 weeks?) yet decisions usually take 2 to 3 months. I guess what I'm asking is, what really goes on at these meetings?

Schools vary. At the one I know best, a subcommittee meets twice a month to review written reports from the interviewers & the applications. Each member assigns a score to each applicant and if there is a big discrepancy among members, there is a discussion.

In terms of final decisions, those meetings take place just a few times per cycle. The applicants are stratified by geographic area (school attempting to have a balance of students from across the country) ranked by mean score. The top applicants in each stratum get offers, the middle applicants get waitlisted and those who are ranked very low (usually because of a very bad impression at interview) are told that they will not be offered admission. Until most of the interview pool is seen, it is hard to know whether the first to be interviewed are "the very best" or that they will fall closer to the middle. A longer wait for some people means that the last group to interview will not be in the position of interviewing for a spot on the waitlist.

 

[adcomm]

i am a nontrad, and i have been working near full time, going to school full time, and being a father to a baby (will have 2 about the application process). Because of this my GPA has slipped slightly. Is this something i should mention to the med schools or will it be unbeneficial? and if it is beneficial is it something i should mention right away (like in my personal statement)?

my committee recognizes life happens, and people who work near full time definitely get recognition. you can mention it, although where it will probably come up the most is in interview. I think it would be appropriate to mention briefly in a personal statement.

 

[adcomm]

I go to a relatively unknown small town liberal arts university in Alabama (the University of Montevallo ~3,000 students, mainly art/music/education majors).

How much does my university's reputation or lack there of effect my application?

Currently I have a 3.67 gpa and hope to graduate with a 3.8, but schools will have no idea how difficult my college is, or how hard it is to get a biology degree here. Also considering that every year we only have about 2-3 people apply to medical school from my university. Usually these people are very serious applicants and often all of them or 2/3 , 3/4 get accepted to one of my state schools.

So I am less worried about UAB or South Alabama not accepting me, or at least not knowing about my university, but say I apply to Vanderbilt, or Boston will them having no clue where Montevallo is play any role in me being accepted or not?

the small school won't really help you. however that's a decent GPA so it won't really hurt you either, I think. if it was a borderline GPA, the difficulty of the program might be called into question. I think you're fine.

 

[adcomm]

Adcomm....what region of the US are you in? NE, SE, NW, SW, or the midwest? 😳)

not telling 🙂 you're pushing your luck and you know it

 

[shantster]

DoctorPardi...Maybe adcomm will agree with me on this one, but it can actually benefit you more than hurt you that you went to a liberal arts school. It may show that you are more "well-rounded" than the biology students who ONLY talk to bio majors and other pre-meds. It also shows that you probably have more skills than just science!

I just had this conversation with one of my friends that's going through the application process right now. We go to a smaller liberal arts school (about the same size as DoctorPardi's) and she said that it was an advantage. Since schools like posting that they have applicants from x number of schools, by accepting one person from our school, they increase their number of schools that they have people from, and thus, it makes the school seem to have a more diverse group.

 

[USArmyDoc]

not telling 🙂 you're pushing your luck and you know it

 

[LizzyM]

I just had this conversation with one of my friends that's going through the application process right now. We go to a smaller liberal arts school (about the same size as DoctorPardi's) and she said that it was an advantage. Since schools like posting that they have applicants from x number of schools, by accepting one person from our school, they increase their number of schools that they have people from, and thus, it makes the school seem to have a more diverse group.

Having a diversity of schools is accomplished by spreading the love around geographically. I have never heard that an applicant from a small school being considered a plus because they are from a school that doesn't send many of its grads to med school.

The downside of a small school that is very easy to get into is that there is a worry that the applicant is the most talented in a very small pool and that the gpa is inflated because it is easier to be at the top of the heap in a school that takes "anyone" than to be at the top of the class in a school that is highly selective. The best way to overcome this prejudice is to do very, very well in the MCAT. That levels the playing field; if you can do as well on the MCAT as the students at the highly selective schools, then the caliber of your undergrad institutution is less of an issue.

 

[RxnMan]

Having a diversity of schools is accomplished by spreading the love around geographically. I have never heard that an applicant from a small school being considered a plus because they are from a school that doesn't send many of its grads to med school.

The downside of a small school that is very easy to get into is that there is a worry that the applicant is the most talented in a very small pool and that the gpa is inflated because it is easier to be at the top of the heap in a school that takes "anyone" than to be at the top of the class in a school that is highly selective. The best way to overcome this prejudice is to do very, very well in the MCAT. That levels the playing field; if you can do as well on the MCAT as the students at the highly selective schools, then the caliber of your undergrad institutution is less of an issue.

I think everything LizzyM has said makes sense with one exception - classifying a school as "highly selective." My school is notorious for being extremely difficult and grade-deflating ((my ugrad department chair has been quoted repeatedly as saying he wanted a B effort to translate into an A anywhere else), and within my state, this is well-known. Outside of my state it's reputation only known by people in my field - petrochemicals, engineering, and the physical sciences. Thus, most ADCOMs don't know how the relative competition for those grades. Choose your ugrad institution carefully and make sure that it's reputation is known to the med school you want to target.

 

[LizzyM]

I think everything LizzyM has said makes sense with one exception - classifying a school as "highly selective." My school is notorious for being extremely difficult and grade-deflating ((my ugrad department chair has been quoted repeatedly as saying he wanted a B effort to translate into an A anywhere else), and within my state, this is well-known. Outside of my state it's reputation only known by people in my field - petrochemicals, engineering, and the physical sciences. Thus, most ADCOMs don't know how the relative competition for those grades. Choose your ugrad institution carefully and make sure that it's reputation is known to the med school you want to target.

A highly selective school is one that is hard to get into. It doesn't correlate with grading policies for undergrads. (Harvard is highly selective but has had documented grade inflation.)

A pre-med advisor/committee worth its salt will include information about the school (grade deflation, etc) along with its letter of recommendation. Some of the schools will point out that you are ranked x out of xx students and that the median gpa at the school is x.xx. (So if you are ranked in the top 5% of students and have a 3.4, the adcom will get the picture.) Others will put the pre-meds into 10 groups by gpa and report your decile. Some professors will be explicit about the student's performance and report that you had the second highest grade on the final exam or whatever your claim to fame might be.

You can be hurt a little if your gpa isn't at least 3.2 (a cut off at some schools) but with a good MCAT the adcom will get into your application a little more deeply and see what lies below the surface.

 

[McMD]

I agree that with a good GPA (which 3.8 is good), solid GPA, EC's/volunteering, and a solid P.S....an adcomm is going to look much less at where you earned your degree. Anyways, DoctorPardi, be proud of where you went to school...if the issue comes up in an interview, talk about it positively and explain how it helped you decide you really wanted to become a physician or something of the like. Don't allow it to be a "weakness."

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

A highly selective school is one that is hard to get into. It doesn't correlate with grading policies for undergrads. (Harvard is highly selective but has had documented grade inflation.)

A pre-med advisor/committee worth its salt will include information about the school (grade deflation, etc) along with its letter of recommendation. Some of the schools will point out that you are ranked x out of xx students and that the median gpa at the school is x.xx. (So if you are ranked in the top 5% of students and have a 3.4, the adcom will get the picture.) Others will put the pre-meds into 10 groups by gpa and report your decile. Some professors will be explicit about the student's performance and report that you had the second highest grade on the final exam or whatever your claim to fame might be.

You can be hurt a little if your gpa isn't at least 3.2 (a cut off at some schools) but with a good MCAT the adcom will get into your application a little more deeply and see what lies below the surface.

Speaking of grade cut-offs, I had a really low freshman year (< 2.0) but have had straight A's since. My GPA will most likely end up around 3.4, will adcoms look past my freshman crappyness? I'll be a 5th year senior, so I should have 4 years of ~3.9 gpa. 🙁

 

[adcomm]

will adcoms look past my freshman crappyness?

yes

 

[USArmyDoc]

Man people on these committees really arn't all that bad! 😉

 

[remo]

You can be hurt a little if your gpa isn't at least 3.2 (a cut off at some schools)

Sorry if this is a dumb question but do they round up your gpa when they look at it (i.e. a 3.17 would make the 3.2 cut off)?

 

[LizzyM]

Sorry if this is a dumb question but do they round up your gpa when they look at it (i.e. a 3.17 would make the 3.2 cut off)?

The gpa is rounded to the nearest hundredth; a 3.196 gets rounded up to 3.20 but a 3.17 is just that.

 

[captainbsm]

Hmmmm

 

[Doc.Holliday]

adcomm,

-Early Decision: for outstanding applicants? or for the good match who really loves the school?

-for disadvantaged applicants: is it better to tell your story in the PS, spin it as perseverance and tie it in to your desire to be a doctor, or save it for interviews? In other words, how much does checking the disadvantaged box say to the adcomm. Is it ok to leave it till interviews to elaborate, or should this be done before? (I wonder, because on paper there is the possibility for such descriptions to be misread as making excuses etc, but in person I'm quite sure i would not come off that way).

-no hospital type volunteering, but extensive research + community involvement + shadowing = OK?

 

[nontradwaitlist]

Thanks for your advise

Two quick questions if you are still around:

1) What do you think of strong LOR vs. poor interview? I am notoriously bad with interviews (Iv been told that I come off as arrogant, but Im really not...maybe a nervous thing) but I have worked closely with a number of docs and have really good references

2) I am waitlisted at a few schools that I am very interested in. I was told by my premed advisor that update letters and extra letters of reference would help. I tought an undergrad class over the summer that went very well...What do you think about having one of my former students write me a letter?
she already told me that she would be more than happy to do so.

 

[Dr. Giggles]

- Do Adcoms ever identify SDN posters based on their MDapps profiles/school interview dates? If so, do you think you or one of your colleagues would bring anything we convey before the committee?

- Do Adcoms from different schools correspond in regards to mutual applicants? If so, under what circumstances?

- Do all of our secondaries actually get fully reviewed, or does the committee not have time to consider secondaries of late/marginal applicants.

 

[gujuDoc]

I just wanted to say thanks for the advice in the initial post and subsequent ones. It is always nice when new adcom members come on here and give tips because its better when we hear if from the ones who really know what's going on and how to advise students.

 

[adcomm]

adcomm,

-Early Decision: for outstanding applicants? or for the good match who really loves the school?

-for disadvantaged applicants: is it better to tell your story in the PS, spin it as perseverance and tie it in to your desire to be a doctor, or save it for interviews? In other words, how much does checking the disadvantaged box say to the adcomm. Is it ok to leave it till interviews to elaborate, or should this be done before? (I wonder, because on paper there is the possibility for such descriptions to be misread as making excuses etc, but in person I'm quite sure i would not come off that way).

-no hospital type volunteering, but extensive research + community involvement + shadowing = OK?

this isn't adcomm advice, but I'd save early decision for someone who is a dead match with the school, preferably for geographic/family/spousal considerations. it's too easy to say you love x school when in reality you haven't even toured other schools.

tell your story in PS and tie it in. don't dwell on it, and be positive about it. leave elaboration for the interview. they'll ask. if you think you're making excuses, run it by a few other people (you can also PM me if you want my take)

that's fine just make sure it was more than one or two days of shadowing.

 

[adcomm]

Thanks for your advise

Two quick questions if you are still around:

1) What do you think of strong LOR vs. poor interview? I am notoriously bad with interviews (Iv been told that I come off as arrogant, but Im really not...maybe a nervous thing) but I have worked closely with a number of docs and have really good references

2) I am waitlisted at a few schools that I am very interested in. I was told by my premed advisor that update letters and extra letters of reference would help. I tought an undergrad class over the summer that went very well...What do you think about having one of my former students write me a letter?
she already told me that she would be more than happy to do so.

ouch. coming off as arrogant can be pretty tough to get over. it's not something that'll usually get written off to nervousness. just going to have to hope your interviewer was impressed enough with the rest of your app. the waitlists are decent signs that they got over it.

update letters would be good, epecially if you took any more classes or did more service/shadowing. a letter from your student is interesting. it wouldn't be the strongest letter to send (i'm thinking more doc or prof) but if it was an unusual circumstance where you feel she can really attest to your future as a physician, go for it. and make SURE you see it before she sends it...

 

[adcomm]

- Do Adcoms ever identify SDN posters based on their MDapps profiles/school interview dates? If so, do you think you or one of your colleagues would bring anything we convey before the committee?

- Do Adcoms from different schools correspond in regards to mutual applicants? If so, under what circumstances?

- Do all of our secondaries actually get fully reviewed, or does the committee not have time to consider secondaries of late/marginal applicants.

my adcomm knows SDN and the interview feedback section exist, but they... don't really care that much. nobody goes on it and nobody at all tries to cross ref. I think the admissions office staff reads it at the end of the year for quality control on interviews.

no.

all secondaries at my school get reviewed.

 

[adcomm]

I just wanted to say thanks for the advice in the initial post and subsequent ones. It is always nice when new adcom members come on here and give tips because its better when we hear if from the ones who really know what's going on and how to advise students.

you're welcome 🙂

 

[janedoe4]

Thanks for your advice so far in this thread. Any non-obvious personal statement pet peeves? I know we should watch our grammar and mechanics, and steer clear of outright gimmicks, but are there any things that everyone seems to think are original or any common mistakes we might not automatically be on the lookout for?

 

[gujuDoc]

Thanks for your advice so far in this thread. Any non-obvious personal statement pet peeves? I know we should watch our grammar and mechanics, and steer clear of outright gimmicks, but are there any things that everyone seems to think are original or any common mistakes we might not automatically be on the lookout for?

Hey I can't speak for this adcom's school, but at USF the Associate Dean of Academic Enrichment and member of USF COM admissions committee told us to stay away from starting our personal statements with "I was born in or my parents immigrated from...". I have the power point if you wish me to link the individual slides as attachments.

 

[janedoe4]

Hey I can't speak for this adcom's school, but at USF the Associate Dean of Academic Enrichment and member of USF COM admissions committee told us to stay away from starting our personal statements with "I was born in or my parents immigrated from...". I have the power point if you wish me to link the individual slides as attachments.

That would be great. Thanks.

 

[rachmoninov3]

Dear Mystery Adcom member,

One of the biggest things holding me back this year was applying late. On some good advice, I emailed the Dean of Admissions at my school, and asked if I could schedule an exit interview or if he could tell me what I could do to improve my application before June 1 (as I wanted to apply as early as possible this year).

He emailed me back saying that I could attend the workshop being held on may1 (which I've already RSVPed for) and afterwards then he would conduct exit interviews.

Is he just really busy, or did he not understand that I can at least change a few things in my application in 2.5 months, but trying to change them in just 1 (between may1 and june1?!)

Should I explain this more clearly or just let it go? I don't want to be a bother, especially if he's busy with this year's new class, but at the same time I'm dying to know! (it's not my post-bac GPA, MCAT, or clinical experience, I know that much.)

 

[gujuDoc]

These are the first 5 slides. I'll upload the other 3 in another post in a minute.

 

[gujuDoc]

Here are the other 3 slides.

These slides are in zip format because that is the only way that was allowing me to transfer them.

 

[adcomm]

Thanks for your advice so far in this thread. Any non-obvious personal statement pet peeves? I know we should watch our grammar and mechanics, and steer clear of outright gimmicks, but are there any things that everyone seems to think are original or any common mistakes we might not automatically be on the lookout for?

the biggest things are definitely grammar and spelling. don't just rely on spell check- ask someone (or several people) to read it carefully for you. spellcheck will not pick up word substitutions.

the only other recurring themes would be dwelling on something (a bad experience, your religion) and being negative or blaming other people for your problems

 

[BOBODR]

the biggest things are definitely grammar and spelling. don't just rely on spell check- ask someone (or several people) to read it carefully for you. spellcheck will not pick up word substitutions.

the only other recurring themes would be dwelling on something (a bad experience, your religion) and being negative or blaming other people for your problems

How do alcohol violations effect an application?

 

[adcomm]

Dear Mystery Adcom member,

One of the biggest things holding me back this year was applying late. On some good advice, I emailed the Dean of Admissions at my school, and asked if I could schedule an exit interview or if he could tell me what I could do to improve my application before June 1 (as I wanted to apply as early as possible this year).

He emailed me back saying that I could attend the workshop being held on may1 (which I've already RSVPed for) and afterwards then he would conduct exit interviews.

Is he just really busy, or did he not understand that I can at least change a few things in my application in 2.5 months, but trying to change them in just 1 (between may1 and june1?!)

Should I explain this more clearly or just let it go? I don't want to be a bother, especially if he's busy with this year's new class, but at the same time I'm dying to know! (it's not my post-bac GPA, MCAT, or clinical experience, I know that much.)

I would say let it go. You should be able to get plenty of suggestions from a premed advisor and the other people here. You said it yourself- your biggest problem was applying late. You are probably a perfectly good candidate who came in a long line of perfectly good candidates. He is not going to be able to give you the magic nugget of wisdom you crave, so I think it is best to just let it go.

 

[adcomm]

How do alcohol violations effect an application?

depends. is it one, or seven? one possession violation in college is pretty much blown off. two raises an eyebrow so your app better be perfect otherwise. more than two and I think you need to be looking at the criteria for an alcohol problem "continues to use despite legal and social consequences..."

 

[BOBODR]

depends. is it one, or seven? one possession violation in college is pretty much blown off. two raises an eyebrow so your app better be perfect otherwise. more than two and I think you need to be looking at the criteria for an alcohol problem "continues to use despite legal and social consequences..."

I technically have 2. One was freshman year (6 yrs ago) and was just alcohol consumption. the other was a senior year noise violation at my apartment in which I wasnt even there. I find writing the fact taht I wasnt there has been a no win situtation. What do I say about it?

 

[adcomm]

oh, I did think of another statement pet peeve- if you got ONE bad grade, or had a minor alcohol violation, save that for discussion in the interview. only things like a terrible semester when your dad died that killed your GPA are appropriate for your statement.

 

[HCW212]

How many solid EC activites is the average amount or expected (granted they are all meaningful, etc.)?

Would shadowing a doctor in Canada be viewed as if you're shadowing in the US, or would that be like 'international shadowing' (I just threw that term in there)?

That's all for now; I really appreciate your effort and time to the board.

 

[Rafa]

To bounce off minah's question, is it a good idea to use up the entire space in the AMCAS section when describing an EC?

 

[MDhopeful023]

dear adcomm...

do you know the difference between ranked and unranked waitlists and how do adcom's decide who to take off an unranked waitlist?

thank you...

 

[sit down lucy]

adcomm,

many of the other posters on sdn seem to have a large number of diverse ec's. i only have a few, but i'm intensely involved in all of them. is this a good thing or a bad thing? also, is it a good thing or a bad thing if they're mostly school or science related (research, ta-ing)?

thanks!