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my semi-solicited advice
Started by adcomm
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adcomm said:
Hey, thanks a lot... and to thikn i was confident of sending that letter. will not do it now.
However, my waitlist says, "typically waitlisters are accepted between may 1stand mid august. since the comittee periodically reviews the waitlisters..you may forward your final transcript and any other relevant information" . I really dont want to send in my last sem's transcript where i got b's in gen chem 2 and physics 3. ( i have a 15 in my ps section in the mcat) and so my q is can i send in my loi along with ec updates now and let them know that when my final transcript comes out in may i will send that immediately?
thanks a lot once more for your advice.
Hey adcomm, quick question for you. I am on the waitlist at a school I would really like to attend. They accept additional letters of recommendation from waitlisted students and the physician I work for has agreed to write me one. My question is this, would it help to have the letter addressed directly to that particular school's committee, or should I have her address it openly? I don't need the letter for any other schools. Your advice has been extremely helpful and I appreciate it. Thanks!
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liverotcod said:
the nice thing about interviewing for residency is things go by smoother. by this i mean, your letter writers are usually known by the people interviewing you (yeah, i went to med school with him/her or yeah we did residency or i see him/her at conferences), so they know the value of the letters. also you have focused on the specialty, so it's a lot easier to say why you want to do something. the traveling is painful and waiting for the match more so. in the end over 90% of people have somewhere to go, these stats are much better than trying to get into med school.
oldman said:
I was wondering...for residency, what are some things we should do throughout med school to help us do well in residency? Grades, exams...ECs? Recs? Research? What is most important?
some random person on the internet shouldn't change your mind 180 about sending the letter. if you think it supports your application to medical school, it might be relevant. my thoughts are that letters written specifically about your potential as a physician are better. just things to consider. maybe run it by a pre-med advisor who can read it.Indude said:
I'm not sure what school you're applying to, but a B from someone who got 15 in PS wouldn't give me a heart attack. I *think* it would be ok to send your final transcript, assuming it'll be available mid-may.
there are many, many threads devoted to this, and the opinion is that it chances by specialty (ie, one might require research, another might care more about boards scores). check the sticky in the subforum of the specialty you're interested in.CuddlyKumquat said:
I don't know those schools, but if they are unknown schools (ie, no one else has applied from there) they aren't frowned upon, per se, but the academic record might be looked over more carefully. I wouldn't take all your hard courses there (I'm assuming they're community colleges or branch campuses or something).alex21216 said:
Hey adcomm,
Thanks for answering questions. Here's mine: I used to work as a professional ski patroller. A few years ago I received a National Ski Patrol award for saving a life. I briefly wrote about it in the activities/experiences section of AMCAS. I'm afraid it may have been overlooked at some schools. I plan on sending in new letters of intent/update to the schools where I am waitlisted in the next couple weeks. Should I atttach a copy of the text of my award? Grazi.
Thanks for answering questions. Here's mine: I used to work as a professional ski patroller. A few years ago I received a National Ski Patrol award for saving a life. I briefly wrote about it in the activities/experiences section of AMCAS. I'm afraid it may have been overlooked at some schools. I plan on sending in new letters of intent/update to the schools where I am waitlisted in the next couple weeks. Should I atttach a copy of the text of my award? Grazi.
first, that's awesome, and second, that's tricky. that might have been a good thing to talk about in your personal statement. now that that's over and done with, you're kind of stuck. while it's an amazing accomplishment, I don't know if it's going to move you to the top of the waitlist at this point. how long ago was this? if it's some kind of thing where it was in the last year, and you can make like you were just presented with the award, mention it and your update and attach the text. if it was a while ago, I think you're out of luck. while I don't think it would hurt, I'm not sure it would help that much...registered user said:
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adcomm said:
This is what I hated about the whole admission process. All the emphasis on irrelevant things that in any other profession nobody cares about. Most of it makes no difference anyways. If community service were important, for example, or had any bearing on how you would practice in the future why do the top students in every class invariably go into Dermatology, Radiology, or one of the lifestyle specialties?
Besides, isn't it obvious that most people do most of their community service just to burnish their credentials. Either that or to play the emotionally gratifying role of the Bwana Sahib. Americorps. Whoopty-friggin'-doo.
I am fortunate that I was never asked, "why do you want to be Doctor?" I just can't lie that well. The real answer is that it seemed like a good idea at the time and I my then current career was somewhat stagnant. I never had to spin a tale about medicine being a calling.
Would you really like to hear that one day I got sick of mowing the yard and asked my wife what it would take to never have to do it again at which point she said that if I were a rich doctor we might be able to afford a lawn service?
Ironcally I know exactly why I want to be an Emergency Medicine Physician. Medical school is funny like that. It's a calling and a divine duty until the end of the first semester and then you wake up and realize it's a job like anything else. A pretty interesting job, and very rewarding, but nobody is doing it for free a far as I can tell.
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liverotcod said:
No. Residency interviews in my experience (and I have been through the match twice) are more like real job interviews without all of the happy happy kumbayah stuff. Your commitment to your future specialty speaks for itself through your rotations, grades, and letters, and you don't have to convince the interviewer of your sincere desire to train in his specialty. It's kind of assumed.
They also care more about your performance in medical school and your character (can work in a team, can handle pressure, works hard) than on some nebulous slate of hard-to-assess extracurricular activities.
As to job interviews, the tables will be turned. No matter what specialty you choose, it is currently a seller's market and your prospective employer will probably be trying to ingratiate himself to you.
your bitterness is refreshing. you will meet the altrusitic if you keep your eyes open. doing things like community service, no matter the motivation, invariably educates and adds perspective. I personally would not want a physician who was in it only for the money, and for every person who lies their way through the application process there are plenty who are genuine.Panda Bear said:
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adcomm said:
Let me say that I am not bitter and I am not directing any criticism at you. I think you are doing people on this forum a great service because right or wrong, the admisson process is what it is and you are giving valuable insight.
adcomm said:
sorry for sucking up, but this is absolutely true...In addition, if someone is looking for the money, one should not look into becoming a physician !!! There are a lot of profitable careers waiting for those searching for money--plain and simple !! if someone truly desires becoming a doctor, that someone geniunely cares about others...correct me if i am wrong !!
I'd like to echo all the thanks adcomm is getting here...awesome service, giving us poor premeds something to do besides rearrange the feng shui of our activity lists.
That said, I have two questions:
1) High school activities, and gory details thereof. I was a hardcore science competitor back then, competed around the world, and did record-settingly well. I'm still very involved in the community - I'm assistant coach for a US olympiad team (huge time suck, but love the kids), am going to China to staff another event this summer, and work local/national meets when I can. Given that, how much detail about my participation in HS would be helpful?
2) Family drama, the ancient history variety. By the time I was six, I had a nice new upper-middle-class family. Unfortunately, the years before that earned me plenty of clinical experience. I fought through years of rehab and reconstructive surgery...which I know made me a stronger and more understanding person. But someone could argue that my genes don't mesh well with me being left alone around vulnerable people. Should I go there at all, or cough up a less loaded answer to the relevant interview questions?
If it matters, I'm pre-MD/PhD, very white, with stellar MCAT/research and decent everything else.
That said, I have two questions:
1) High school activities, and gory details thereof. I was a hardcore science competitor back then, competed around the world, and did record-settingly well. I'm still very involved in the community - I'm assistant coach for a US olympiad team (huge time suck, but love the kids), am going to China to staff another event this summer, and work local/national meets when I can. Given that, how much detail about my participation in HS would be helpful?
2) Family drama, the ancient history variety. By the time I was six, I had a nice new upper-middle-class family. Unfortunately, the years before that earned me plenty of clinical experience. I fought through years of rehab and reconstructive surgery...which I know made me a stronger and more understanding person. But someone could argue that my genes don't mesh well with me being left alone around vulnerable people. Should I go there at all, or cough up a less loaded answer to the relevant interview questions?
If it matters, I'm pre-MD/PhD, very white, with stellar MCAT/research and decent everything else.
How about research which is absolutely not medically related? For instance, I did a semester of Meteorology research (my major at the time) and I did some entomology research before college - should I even bother listing those?
i already know the answer because i am omniscient.
Hey Adcomm, thanks for your advice and continuous posts on here!!!! I was wondering if you (or anyone else) had insight on 2 things:
1) How does the admissions committee rank undergrad schools for instance I had the choice of choosing between two schools, one in the Midwest known for its challenging academic reputation, or a less academic school, still in the Midwest. I ultimately choose the school with the more rigorous curriculum, but I fear that my GPA is definitely not what it would have been had I chosen the easier school. Do committees really take the time to look at the undergraduate program you are coming from, or is it all just about the stats?
2) Second, how bad does it look if you take the MCAT 3 times? I am going to take it for my first time this April. However, if I dont do well I want to retake it in August. The dilemma is that I am working full-time and taking 12 credit hours this summer so that I can graduate a semester early (this upcoming Dec.) and save a lot of $$$$. Therefore, my August MCAT probably wont have much of an improvement, or at least nothing dramatic. If I then have to re-take it the following April of 2007 (on the computers???), then it will be my 3rd time. However, since I am graduating early I can have the entire spring semester to dedicate to the MCAT, and I know for sure that I can get my score up to par if I do that. Any suggestions?
Thanks to anyone in advance for any feedback!!!
1) How does the admissions committee rank undergrad schools for instance I had the choice of choosing between two schools, one in the Midwest known for its challenging academic reputation, or a less academic school, still in the Midwest. I ultimately choose the school with the more rigorous curriculum, but I fear that my GPA is definitely not what it would have been had I chosen the easier school. Do committees really take the time to look at the undergraduate program you are coming from, or is it all just about the stats?
2) Second, how bad does it look if you take the MCAT 3 times? I am going to take it for my first time this April. However, if I dont do well I want to retake it in August. The dilemma is that I am working full-time and taking 12 credit hours this summer so that I can graduate a semester early (this upcoming Dec.) and save a lot of $$$$. Therefore, my August MCAT probably wont have much of an improvement, or at least nothing dramatic. If I then have to re-take it the following April of 2007 (on the computers???), then it will be my 3rd time. However, since I am graduating early I can have the entire spring semester to dedicate to the MCAT, and I know for sure that I can get my score up to par if I do that. Any suggestions?
Thanks to anyone in advance for any feedback!!!
Adcom, what do you think about getting EMT certified? Is it a good thing, or does it only show that people are only doing it for the application.
And is it important to have a lot of EC's all 4 years of undergrad? I only have one currently just with my Health Career society.(currently a freshman) I did not volunteer or shadow this year also.
Thank you.
And is it important to have a lot of EC's all 4 years of undergrad? I only have one currently just with my Health Career society.(currently a freshman) I did not volunteer or shadow this year also.
Thank you.
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2Xtrouble2X said:
No. You are wrong. Everybody cares about others except for the odd sociopath. Caring for and helping others is part of human nature and physicians have no special lock on that trait.
In other words you do not have to be a saint to be a physician. Besides, you can not tell me that every one who goes from high school to college to medical school on a pre-ordained career track has any special powers of caring.
Medicine is a profitable career. If all goes well, three years from now I will probably start at 250K (which is the going rate for Emergency Physicians). I made about 80K as a self-employed structural engineer so for seven more years of education, three of which are at "half pay" and not a total loss I will triple my earing potential for the 25 years I will have left to work. Even if I stayed in Family Medicine I would come out way ahead in the long run.
Of course it is unlikely that you will get fabulously rich in medicine. But it is unlikely that you will get fabulously rich in any profession. Medicine has the highest entry level compensation of any other professional field.
adcomm said:
Dear Adcomm:
First I believe it is wonderful to evidently be a participant on a school's admissions committee as a third year student. Your insight as an applicant going through the process, having experience in your school's curriculum, working with your peers, and even having some understanding of the Admissions Committee process are valuable. Your willingness to help guide those to follow is also a nice touch.
It is obvious that while you may have Admissions Committee experience, it is just as obvious that you do lack Admissions Officer knowledge. To your credit you do seem to indirectly acknowledge those shortcomings in your responses. Again bravo to you.
Being an open and public forum, I can only REQUEST the following:
ADCOMM: You claim to represent an admissions committee at a medical school and you are providing some good information. But all of the information is an amalgam of information posted here over the past several months. Everyone knows that I am an Admissions Director and a participant at my school's Admissions Committee. Information which is identifiable and verifiable. If you wish to "certify" your "authority" in the adcomm area. You are welcome to PM me with your name and school and I can verify your credentials to the group but never reveal the who/where of you.
POSTERS: In all cases, unless you KNOW who you are revealing information to, be very careful with your personal information.
And you think the applicants are paranoid?? I just like to see good information provided by credible sources. There is enough garbage on the net.
REL said:
adcomm just got pwned!
D
deleted92121
Adcomm,
I am not so worried about my grades (All A's and B's) but I am worried about my LOR, EC, and Clinical/Volunteer Experience..I'll list what I have:
Volunteer w/ Special Olympics in the Fall
Mentor Freshman entering my major (Exercise Science)
Member of the Exercise Science Society
Worked at the Mid-Atlantic Regional Conference for the American College of Sports Medicine as a Registration Desk Attendant
Work as a Guest/Resident Information Desk Attendant in my Dorm Hall
I will be shadowing a few physicians (both MD and DO) and volunteering at a hospital starting this summer
Work at a Gorcery Store during the summers
Did an Internship w/ a Prof at my former school (I transferred)..I helped him research a paper for the Society of Biblical Literature and got to travel to Singapore and Malaysia for the International Conference
Next summer I will be taking classes to earn my EMT-B
is this enough or do I need more?
dxu
I am not so worried about my grades (All A's and B's) but I am worried about my LOR, EC, and Clinical/Volunteer Experience..I'll list what I have:
Volunteer w/ Special Olympics in the Fall
Mentor Freshman entering my major (Exercise Science)
Member of the Exercise Science Society
Worked at the Mid-Atlantic Regional Conference for the American College of Sports Medicine as a Registration Desk Attendant
Work as a Guest/Resident Information Desk Attendant in my Dorm Hall
I will be shadowing a few physicians (both MD and DO) and volunteering at a hospital starting this summer
Work at a Gorcery Store during the summers
Did an Internship w/ a Prof at my former school (I transferred)..I helped him research a paper for the Society of Biblical Literature and got to travel to Singapore and Malaysia for the International Conference
Next summer I will be taking classes to earn my EMT-B
is this enough or do I need more?
dxu
Adcom -
Thanks for giving all these great replies. I have a question myself.
How is fraternity / sorority involvement regarded by the committees? I plan on listing it either way, as I used my fraternity involvement as a great leadership experience (served a year as community service chair, was a VP and President of my school's inter-fraternity council), but I'm just curious if there is the normal stigma associated with it. I go to a small, Jesuit university where the Greek system is really different from your typical state schools - it's very laid back, and it's not as party-oriented as what seems to be the norm.
I appreciate your input!
Thanks for giving all these great replies. I have a question myself.
How is fraternity / sorority involvement regarded by the committees? I plan on listing it either way, as I used my fraternity involvement as a great leadership experience (served a year as community service chair, was a VP and President of my school's inter-fraternity council), but I'm just curious if there is the normal stigma associated with it. I go to a small, Jesuit university where the Greek system is really different from your typical state schools - it's very laid back, and it's not as party-oriented as what seems to be the norm.
I appreciate your input!
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QofQuimica
Seriously, dude, I think you're overreacting....
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gujuDoc said:
oh ok, no i was just wondering how verifying things like this works. i mean, its kind of easy to claim that i'm part of some obscure admissions committee. so, how do adcoms go about verifying other adcoms? it's all kinda shady, take it with a grain of salt assumptions.
CuddlyKumquat said:
Basically it's the same thing over again.
They look at EC, research, etc.
They key number is your Step I Board score. They can't tell how much grade inflation there is at a school, but they can see a board score. That number becomes key to your life. But if you can get AOA, that'll be a big bonus for your app. Of course most places only give AOA out to those with good board scores.
Letters of rec matter far more for residency. This is because the field of medicine is much smaller. Everyone knows everyone else. Thus the people who interview you likely know those who wrote your letters. This can be a good asset to have. the goal then is to work with an attending who is famous and will be able to write you a good letter.
Research comes into play more for residency if you are looking at academic programs. the nice thing about med school is it's a lot easier to hitch a ride on some clinical research taht'll pump out publications really quick (less than a years worth of work), so you can get out some case studies or some chart reviews.
adcomm said:
I apologize if this has been addressed within the thread already, but I didnt bother to read everyone's posts... just too long.
Anyways, I'm looking to apply to med school but have to work with a sub-average GPA (about a 3.4). I had some personal problems (death in the family, friend trying to commit suicide) as well as undiagnosed bouts of depression that led to graduating with a 3.45 and taking about 3 years off after undergrad to sort myself out. Should I touch on this at all in my PS? I don't want to come off as a wack job but I also want to explain why my undergrad grades weren't stellar. And if that question is brought up in interviews, I don't know how a reply of "oh well... I was really depressed... etc. etc." would go over with the adcomms. I want to be honest, but I don't want my past experiences to be thought of as personal weaknesses.
kirexhana said:
Mainly because I have met many of the posters on the Florida threads and I use my real-life nickname here, at USF, and in my past military life. You are correct in that you dont really know who is who unless you actually KNOW others.
Seriously.AnEyeLikeMars said:
I have no doubt REL is the real deal. LizzyM seems to have some inside knowledge on a certain school and region of the U.S., and is very believable, yet does not want to identify that school explicitly--even though it's pretty easy to figure out. 😕 adcomm has only given common knowledge info any seasoned SDNer can spew out. 🙄
Sunflower189 said:
agh. this is what happens when I go away for a week. I don't know if I can answer all these tonight.
1. given that the current stuff is on your app, I don't think you need to go into so so much detail. they'll ask about it in the interview and you can talk about it then, if you want. I do think it would be fine to kind of list under honors/awards "bestest science person in the world, 2001" or whatever.
2. hope my jetlagged brain read between all the lines in that one appropriately. if the experience of being a patient was inspriational to you, it's appropriate to talk about. my gut feeling is that I would not go into the hows and whys. a less-loaded answer that focuses on the positive aspects (maybe a favorite doctor, or a desire to return the favor or whatever) is what you should stick with. you should not tell an interviewer anything (even if you're getting along so well) that you would not stand up in front of the dean of admissions and say. that said, if you have concerns about your genetic makeup and its future implications, please find someone to talk to NOW.
1. school/curriculum does go into the equation (at my school)Jrgooser said:
2. don't take the MCAT in April if you're not prepared for it. scoring super-low on the first or second try can be a big nono even if your 3rd one rocks. if all 3 are about the same or none are concerningly low, it seems to me that multiple tries are OK. if you don't think you can improve on the august MCAT, you might think seriously about just nailing it the following april...
EMT certification is great if you work as one after you get the paper (even with the campus service). the piece of paper alone... you are better off spending your time elsewhere.rc4ch said:
no, a lot of people take it slow their first year. stick with the one you started, and add a few. think about shadowing or service this summer, it's never too early... just keep track in a notebook so you have it when you apply. and enjoy college!!
REL- always great to have you around. I think I advertised fairly well from the get-go what I am and am not providing. I think the kids of SDN are capable of deciding how to use the information they collect on this site, and I would laugh pretty hard if anyone took my word as gospel. I try to remind posters that in my replies, which it seems you noticed.REL said:
As for my replies being a compilation of (correct) info from other threads... 1, is that a problem? and 2, for every time information is posted that's true-to-life, I read a lot that's complete bull****. I am providing, as I said, one committee member's perspective on these issues. it seems there are plenty of people interested in bouncing ideas off people who aren't fellow premeds. *shrugs*
To the end of you "verifying" my credentials, thanks but no thanks. For my own protection, I want to remain anonymous. Keeping the attention of the few posters who would need my "authority" "certified" to take my advice simply isn't worth the potential personal cost to me. I am getting nothing from this, all posters are always free to disregard this thread as they please.
And as always, if you're concerned about this "garbage" in my posts, I'm sure everyone here would benefit from your corrections.
adcomm said:
I suspect if you read what I wrote you will see that I generally praised what you are doing and simply asked you to continue to be careful. I simply offered you a solution to validate yourself. If you choose not to validate, there will always be questions. I will chime in when asked or when misinformation (from any source) appears to be rampant. As for the garbage, I didnt indicate that your posts were garbage, but that there was garbage on the net.
sorry, I'd understood you and didn't do a good job of showing that. I'm fine with there being questions. I'll do this as long as it stays fun and moderately rewarding to be able to give back to people as I would have liked someone to do. misinformation from a validated source is still misinformation, so your input is more important than my validation. say that twice fast.REL said:
adcomm said:
hey adcomm, dont worry you're doing a great job answering questions for the newbies...just forget the surrounding controversey and help "confused" premeds!! your responses are very helpful.
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Hey, if you've answered these in the past, say so and I'll find them. So I'm kind of an odd story in terms of this application cycle, but we'll boil it down to: I got waitlisted at the school I've wanted all along. So a few questions:
1. Should I mention in an LOI that money/financial aid is not a concern as I come from a well established background? I've been told that might be a point in my favor, but it sounds effin' disgusting to me.
2. My best friend goes to the school in question, but is in law (ok, one look at my MDApp profile and it's clear the school's Yale Law) and he wants to write a letter saying I would fit into the Yale community. I'm already planning on having 3-6 letters written in my favor (one director of a hospital I've been volunteering in, a ward director for the same hospital, a director of an ambulance station I worked in earlier this year, potentially from two current Yale med students and one alum.) How much of this is overkill/can hurt me? IF you guys saw something like this would it come off as positive or psychotic?
P.S. I'm suddenly wishing this were more anonymous. Sigh. Thanks, Adcomm...
1. Should I mention in an LOI that money/financial aid is not a concern as I come from a well established background? I've been told that might be a point in my favor, but it sounds effin' disgusting to me.
2. My best friend goes to the school in question, but is in law (ok, one look at my MDApp profile and it's clear the school's Yale Law) and he wants to write a letter saying I would fit into the Yale community. I'm already planning on having 3-6 letters written in my favor (one director of a hospital I've been volunteering in, a ward director for the same hospital, a director of an ambulance station I worked in earlier this year, potentially from two current Yale med students and one alum.) How much of this is overkill/can hurt me? IF you guys saw something like this would it come off as positive or psychotic?
P.S. I'm suddenly wishing this were more anonymous. Sigh. Thanks, Adcomm...
I don't screen this section of the app.Rafa said:
My personal answer is pick two or three points: what it was, what you did, how much time you put into it. Describe the important and unique aspects clearly and concisely. This would not be a place for embellishment or the dramatic. 🙂 Just the facts, ma'am.
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