Naive premeds

[Pewl]

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Good lord, don't you guys have stuff to do? exams to prepare for? sports to watch? =D

 

[75969]

I am not going to try to say that I know much about the struggles involved in medical school, since I have never experienced it. It is a HUGE 'mystery' that I dont think anyone will be able to fully appreciate (or understand) until after they have been through it.

However, I understand that your views are based upon where you are in life now...I would be interested in hearing from you years from now, after residency and all is complete, to see if (and how) your views have changed.

I do partially see where you are comming from though, I will never forget delivering patient files to doctors throughout the hospital...they all grabbed them, signed them (without thought) and handed them back. One doctor even asked me (after returning it) who the patient was and what he was approving. That situation right there showed a lot....


Good luck to you! Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I hope things get better for you (and I hope 'warning us' made you feel better)! 😛

 

[IAMS]

now i have an annoying song in my head

I did too, had to share..

 

[Nikki2002]

I did too, had to share..

lol 🙂

 

[med99]

Go read the "if you could do it over would you?" posts on the first page of the general residency forum. I'm far from the only person who has second thoughts.

 

[IDforMe]

Great Quote Pewl!
And no... b/c I don't have a TV. I could be doing something more productive, but I've already been doing that for the last 3 weeks with NO MORE INFO SENT FROM THE SCHOOLS I APPLIED TO!!!!

 

[IAMS]

I do think it's unfair to try to lump everyone in one mold or another - to say that all med students are miserable, or all premeds are naive.. obviously, this thread has shown there are a variety of preparation levels and coping methods - Maybe it's really up to each of us to prepare for the challenges ahead and our responsibility to make the most of them...

 

[med99]

I do think it's unfair to try to lump everyone in one mold or another - to say that all med students are miserable, or all premeds are naive.. obviously, this thread has shown there are a variety of preparation levels and coping methods - maybe it's really up to each of us to prepare for the challenges ahead and our responsibility to make the most of them... how about that?

Dude, your so upbeat and positive all the time. I like it but at the same time your constant optimism makes me wonder if your in seminary or a "fluff piece" reporter of some sort.

 

[IDforMe]

I do think it's unfair to try to lump everyone in one mold or another - to say that all med students are miserable, or all premeds are naive.. obviously, this thread has shown there are a variety of preparation levels and coping methods - maybe it's really up to each of us to prepare for the challenges ahead and our responsibility to make the most of them... how about that?

What else CAN you do in life?

Good perspective here... Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes "Live every day as if you would die tomarrow. Learn everyday as if you would live forever." -- Mahatma Gandhi

 

[IDforMe]

I guess I do have SOME idealism left after all...😉

 

[Megalofyia]

Good lord, don't you guys have stuff to do? exams to prepare for? sports to watch? =D

Ah well see there you go assuming that med school is all about non stop studying ... exam... binge drinking night... mad non stop studying.. and so forth

And yet so many medical students on this board posting and procrastinating... I venture to guess that these people aren't putting their family and friends second to an anonymous internet forum ... so... If there's enough time to post on the internet and time to talk to friends and family maybe just maybe medical school is not a horrible bad evil inferno of hell.

Really guys.. How many of you premeds think that the medical system is perfect? How many of you think that all of your patients are going to be complient with treatments? How many of you think that your going to be marcus wellby and not worried about malpractice insurance and what the politics in the local hospital is?
If you are going into this thinking that none of that exsits then you really are naive and medicine will be a shock to you. But the thing is that all of that is part of medicine. Finding ways to think outside a pretty rigid box and being able to know that mistakes will be made.. by you and that things may or may not work out is part of the deal. Embrace it as part of your life.

Yes I'm still in clinical sciences but since this part of medical school is what I had imagined and because I've spent a great deal of time investigating what rotations will be like I dont think I'm going to be in for any horrible shocks. I plan on being the person who will be willing to wipe asses, talk to snot nosed kids and change their diapers, be willing to be pimped, take abuse from everyone else who works in the hospital, and be working long ass marathon shifts. All the while thinking how glad I am to be given this opportunity and how even gladder I am that it is temporary.

 

[IAMS]

Dude, your so upbeat and positive all the time. I like it but at the same time your constant optimism makes me wonder if your in seminary or a "fluff piece" reporter of some sort.

It's so easy to get wrapped up in this whole process, I try to take a step back.. that's all - it's my coping strategy. Now, do I get emotional - ask me about my last interview... I think this whole process of becomiing a physician is challenging, and each level presents a new obstacle to overcome. I'm not the same person I was 2 years ago when I started on this journey - I think I've come a long way, said some pretty stupid things, and learned from them.. I hope I'm not sounding like I know better - cause I don't - But calling each other to the carpet keeps it real, so bring it on, big stuff!

 

[Megalofyia]

Go read the "if you could do it over would you?" posts on the first page of the general residency forum. I'm far from the only person who has second thoughts.

Have you ever heard that misery attracts company... that thread is good proof of this.

 

[oompa loompa]

So those of us going into medicine without a trace of idealism, prepared for the grueling road ahead, may be the ones who succeed. Cool 👍

"This, and much more, she accepted--for after all, living did mean accepting the loss of one joy after another."
Words of wisdom from Nabokov.

 

[IDforMe]

Yes I'm still in clinical sciences but since this part of medical school is what I had imagined and because I've spent a great deal of time investigating what rotations will be like I dont think I'm going to be in for any horrible shocks. I plan on being the person who will be willing to wipe asses, talk to snot nosed kids and change their diapers, be willing to be pimped, take abuse from everyone else who works in the hospital, and be working long ass marathon shifts. All the while thinking how glad I am to be given this opportunity and how even gladder I am that it is temporary.

It's not easy being green, is it Megalofyia. 😀

(Really sorry, couldn't help myself. I'm getting a little slap-happy here. I'll try to limit the Muppets jokes.)

 

[gujuDoc]

Go read the "if you could do it over would you?" posts on the first page of the general residency forum. I'm far from the only person who has second thoughts.

I have read that thread, and I think one thread on the subject is enough. I've linked it in here too. But there's no need to create another thread on the matter.

Fact of the matter is.......yes we may be naive, and we don't know how we'll be a few years from now. However, at the end of the day, regardless of how tough it is, there's always going to be a need for doctors and for medical school applicants, so trying to tell all premeds to save themselves by not applying is of no use.

Maybe it will be hell, maybe it will be fun. Who knows?? But the point is, while we can listen to others opinions, at the end of the day it is for us to find out for ourselves whether we want to go through it or back out at the last minute and do something else.

 

[IAMS]

I saw a good movie not too long ago - Wit - Emma Thomson -
based on a play, about a poet dying of ovarian cancer.. she has a resident who is more interested in her as research than as a patient - a little dose of reality from the patient point of view. I don't think there is any business being a physician unless you have a real desire to help people. How's that for idealism?

 

[Pretty POHA]

Ah well see there you go assuming that med school is all about non stop studying ... exam... binge drinking night... mad non stop studying.. and so forth.

And NEXT you'll be trying to convince me that pre-med isn't this either. Who are you? What did you do with my fellow pre-med? Are you saying that it's NOT about these things? Because I think I may have got it wrong all this time. *grin*

Really, it's funny. Because as unhealthy (although regular) as it may seem, that's what it IS all about for me. At least tonight. Study and then binge drink. Does any one have ANY clue where my keys are??

 

[Pewl]

You guys need to get laid.. BAD. 😀

 

[Megalofyia]

I saw a good movie not too long ago - Wit - Emma Thomson -
based on a play, about a poet dying of ovarian cancer.. she has a resident who is more interested in her as research than as a patient - a little dose of reality from the patient point of view. I don't think there is any business being a physician unless you have a real desire to help people. How's that for idealism?

This is an increadibly sad movie for me but very well done.

My favorite teacher and a great inspiration to me looked and acted just like Emma Thomson does in the movie. Just like the character in the movie my teacher was a poet, and the character in the movie is a teacher too. The resident is a former student of hers.
My teacher died exactly the same way as the character.

However.. I would definately recommend this movie to anyone in health care.

 

[IAMS]

You guys need to get laid.. BAD. 😀

 

[Megalofyia]

And NEXT you'll be trying to convince me that pre-med isn't this either. Who are you? What did you do with my fellow pre-med? Are you saying that it's NOT about these things? Because I think I may have got it wrong all this time. *grin*

Really, it's funny. Because as unhealthy (although regular) as it may seem, that's what it IS all about for me. At least tonight. Study and then binge drink. Does any one have ANY clue where my keys are??

My schedule is more along the lines of study, drink, study, call friends back home tell them how drunk I am, drink more, study, exam, really drink, wake up late, study, do some tomfoolary around school, drink, exam. etc...

 

[IDforMe]

You guys need to get laid.. BAD. 😀

Then again, I see you're still posting here tonight too? Nothing better to do on a Friday, like the rest of us? 🙄

 

[dss1790]

god i hope i get rejected from all the schools i'm applying to.

i don't even WANT to be a doctor, and this **** is convincing me i really should not go to med school. if people that are amped/excited/want to be doctors get burned out like that i'll be ready to quit after the first day...

ughhhh...

 

[Nikki2002]

god i hope i get rejected from all the schools i'm applying to.

i don't even WANT to be a doctor, and this **** is convincing me i really should not go to med school. if people that are amped/excited/want to be doctors get burned out like that i'll be ready to quit after the first day...

ughhhh...

yeah--go talk to some doctors in person

 

[IAMS]

Then again, I see you're still posting here tonight too? Nothing better to do on a Friday, like the rest of us? 🙄

I thought he had a good idea..

 

[IDforMe]

Joto, why are you applying then? Save yourself the stress and unhappiness.

 

[Pewl]

Then again, I see you're still posting here tonight too? Nothing better to do on a Friday, like the rest of us? 🙄

I'm writing a report for my radiation oncology clinical rotation comparing the following three treatment planning systems:

1) Varian's "Eclipse" <-- This one's the $h!t!
2) Nucleotron's "Theraplan Plus"
3) CMS's "Xio"

Each uses some sort of superposition-convolution algorithm that utilizes pencil-beam geometry. In addition to their dose calculation algorithm I am giving a brief compare/contrast on other program features such as adding a bolus, digitally reconstructed radiographs, brachytherapy capabilities, etc.

Yes, I am into Rads. Rads are the $h!t. They are the future. Bow down! 🙂

But, yes, this is also why I am not (yet) out partying on the Friday before Halloween.

 

[dss1790]

Joto, why are you applying then? Save yourself the stress and unhappiness.

parents... and i honestly can't think of anything else to do. horrible reasons i know...

i need to just grow a pair and think of another profession, cuz i should NOT be a doctor 👎

 

[IDforMe]

🙂 Cool Pewl. Good excuse. Mine's not up to par with that... Just wasting time tonight. 😀

Have a great Halloween. --The best holiday of all IMHO.
See ya!

 

[dynx]

soul

lol...I thought the same thing..."so medicing f*cked up your shoes eh?"

Im not going to read the rest of this alternating idealistic/cynical crap. Bottom line is some people can hack it some people can't. If you're in it to save the world like so many of my classmates you're gonna turn into a burnt out cynical and neurotic mess that needs "venting" sessions like so many of my classmates.
If you want to save people that want to be saved and are assured enough in yourself to assign blame for a failure that truely is the patients squarely on the patients head...then stupid people wont get you down.
If you aren't shooting for the mansion on the beach but rather a comfortable lifestyle then you can not kill yourself and lead a happy life in a field you like. All in all, I LOVE medicine, its the greatest thing in the world, you can let it beat you down or you can take it as it is, choose your battles and know when to say f*ck it. Keep your numbers up and let the small **** slide.

 

[Nikki2002]

parents... and i honestly can't think of anything else to do. horrible reasons i know...

i need to just grow a pair and think of another profession, cuz i should NOT be a doctor 👎

you can't think of anything else to do? business, law, math, physics, bio, chem, art, music, psychology, sociology, international studies, political science, architecture, english, philosophy, geology, geography, accounting, computer science, etc. Don't let your parents tell you what to do--you have to live this life.

 

[IDforMe]

If you're in it to save the world like so many of my classmates you're gonna turn into a burnt out cynical and neurotic mess that needs "venting" sessions like so many of my classmates.
If you want to save people that want to be saved and are assured enough in yourself to assign blame for a failure that truely is the patients squarely on the patients head...then stupid people wont get you down.

If you put it that way, I think I'll be fine. Thanks!

 

[Duke_David]

I love what I'm doing, and I'd do it all over again (MD '80).
If you don't love what you are doing, please let me know so you won't be my doctor.

Only YOU can change your position in life. People change all the time. Have the courage to tell your parents you are miserable and then drop out of medical school to pursue something else. It truly is never to late to change your career. But, I write that facetiously. It would be much better for a medical school student who is doing well in school, but successful, to go speak with a psychiatrist and try to do some "real" self-discovery rather than post anonymously to this board about your misery. It is really important to do this and it will carry no negative stigma for you. Your Dean who writes your letters for residency will never know. Should you choose disclose that you went to a psychiatrist, you can make turn that into an act of personal self-awareness and a positive. It can really help to have an independent person to talk with, bounce your ideas off of, and figure out why you are miserable and feel hopeless. You might find out you are depressed and need treatment, or you might just get a better grip on the reasons you are doing what you are doing.

 

[average]

I am in my 3rd year and can see where people are coming from when they say they wouldn't do it over again.

I simply would not have the energy to start over. That being said, I had the energy when I began school and somehow muster up the energy everytime I have a new task to complete.

I think the key to this post is that if your not ready to commit yourself to medicine 100% than you are going to have a long road ahead of you. If you are simply going into medicine because your parents want you to or because you cannot think of anything better to do, than DO NOT do it.

 

[SOUNDMAN]

Personally I think a lot of people are so young when they get into medicine they have no concept what the real world is like. Sure they may have worked through school, or done this or that, but until you hit your 30's or so, most have not had to really be out there "doing it". That is a huge change in anyones life medicine or not. It's not just medicine that makes you cynical it can be life in general. As someone who's been through lifes experiences any returning to medical school, after already practicing medicine as a PA, I'm excited about med school, but I understand and have learned already what the real world is like. Many of the younger ones are learning this through med school.

 

[gujuDoc]

Personally I think a lot of people are so young when they get into medicine they have no concept what the real world is like. Sure they may have worked through school, or done this or that, but until you hit your 30's or so, most have not had to really be out there "doing it". That is a huge change in anyones life medicine or not. It's not just medicine that makes you cynical it can be life in general. As someone who's been through lifes experiences any returning to medical school, after already practicing medicine as a PA, I'm excited about med school, but I understand and have learned already what the real world is like. Many of the younger ones are learning this through med school.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!! Those last few lines you posted are hitting it on the nail.

 

[robotsonic]

Med school changes you. But it's not because it is too much work or you are studying too hard or anything like that. It is because you are trained to see people differently. It doesn't matter how idealistic you are, you will see patients differently during your residency.

Go and read House of God by Samuel Shem. The premeds will probably be horrified by how he refers to the older patients. But you will be just like Roy at some point.

Having said that, things change again for attendings, from what I have seen. Attendings make it through those cynical residency years and their idealism (that has been there all along) can show again.

 

[MDDM]

Personally I think a lot of people are so young when they get into medicine they have no concept what the real world is like. Sure they may have worked through school, or done this or that, but until you hit your 30's or so, most have not had to really be out there "doing it". That is a huge change in anyones life medicine or not. It's not just medicine that makes you cynical it can be life in general. As someone who's been through lifes experiences any returning to medical school, after already practicing medicine as a PA, I'm excited about med school, but I understand and have learned already what the real world is like. Many of the younger ones are learning this through med school.

On the contrary. I think our system in this country is admitting students into medicine at a late stage in their life. Take Europe and the rest of the world (except the Americas), for example, where students pretty much get into medical school right after high school. Sure in England they would do a year or two of "A-level," but this is done in sciences related to medicine. So pretty much after high school all your time and effort is devoted into the study of medicine, for 6 to 8 years, depending on the country and the program. Here, they expect the aspiring physician to have had a "well-balanced, well-rounded, undergraduate education." The expect him or her to have taken an active role in leadership positions. They want their candidate to already know medical ethics and problems with the healthcare system in this country, as if undergrad is an MPH degree. They expect the physician to have interests in the arts, literature, history, music, etc... It makes me wonder why we don't expect our musicians and poets to have knowledge of human physiology and pharmacology. In any case, I digress. The system here already "drains" the prospective student in order for him/her to make it into medical school. I have actually heard people say, "I'm done" once they heard about their acceptance, but in truth they haven't even started yet, which probably contributes to the later shock. Of course, the academic course work of medical school CAN be done in the first two or three years, but why compress things and cause unnecessary stresses that ultimately boil down to a discussion on a forum about the "real world" and the premed's fantasy world. Finally, to have all our physicans begin at the age of 30 and finally be able to start a practice at almost 40 years of age is a sin toward mankind. People at 40 are already talking about retirement and would not be able to work at full potential. So let's not even go there. Soundman, your case is very different since you have worked as a PA. This makes medical school much less stressful and more enjoyable for you since a lot of the material is redundant and you have already had a huge amount of patient contact. You are pretty much already a physician, just without the official "M.D." extension attached to your name. I am sure you will be one of the best, if not the best, in your class. Finally, I would like to wish everyone good luck in their quest for a medical education.

 

[IAMS]

Finally, I would like to wish everyone good luck in their quest for a medical education.

👍

 

[wheatie]

It seems like the gist is med school itself is all right but once you get into residency and seeing patients and start to understand the business end of it, all the idealism goes out the window and you feel mistaken and your spirit gets broken? Please correct me if I am wrong.

I have heard the same thing as the original poster from a doctor I know, that most people feel significantly changed after the whole 7-9 years and that many wish they had not become the person they had. The doctor implied that a lot of the problem was due to the medical industry's hangups about insurance and the conveyer belt manner in which you see patients.

Might it be possible to join a practice or institution with more of a healthy-doctor/healthy-patient outlook, where your well-being is stressed (you are able to see your family, the nurse-doctor-aide hierarchy is not so strict), and the institution stresses more human approach to medicine? Maybe these places do not exist. Let's hope. (If you really, idealistically, fantastically wanted to study medicine at the start, I bet there is stilll part of your old self that could be revived and rewarded in the right environment.)

 

[parameddan]

The more people in the field I talk to, the more I start to think that medicine is not a good idea for me. I'm definitely an idealist (see my posts in this forum for a variety of idealistic rantings) and I operate on some sense of morality that people generally don't seem to have. I think it's kind of sad that I'm apparently not supposed to have this, and I'm living in a fantasy world.

I like my fantasy world, thank you very much; and if everyone around me is going to be a cynical bastard who really doesn't like to help people -- in a profession where all you do is help people, no less -- it's going to be a rough ride...

Well Put! things could be worse, he could shovel **** for a living! It's all relative to your notion of good, bad, wrong , right, easy, hard...etc

 

[Marpe]

I appreciate this post because I think it's true that pre-meds can be idealistic or naive when it comes to medicine. I'm in my mid 20's and a pre-med student. Never once did I think before that I'd be pursuing medicine, but I've always felt that I wanted to help people (hmm idealism right here?? 😉 ) and that perhaps I have something to give back. In my mind the path to being a doctor is all about change, challenges, and once in a while that no-words-could-ever describe feeling; a sense of fulfillment.

I know I could be pursuing about a dozen other occupations that would make decent money, take less time, less stress, and definately would offer more of a balanced personal life, but when it comes down to it, it just wouldn't be enough for me. There's been too many days when I'd ask myself "What the h*** are you doing or Do you really think you can do this??!" But it's always this feeling, maybe it is naivete, that keeps me going. Medicine and being a doctor for me means that its a humbling experience; there's much sacrifice and hard work involved, but what you can give to others and doing what your truly want to do in life makes it all very worth while.

Disillusionment and pain will surely be part of the experience, but I think that if you've already experienced that in life then it can only make your task ahead much more clearer.

 

[IAMS]

I was thinking about this thread as I was walking my dogs today - and I was reminded of the Matrix - the 1st one.. the red and blue pill - I guess each of us pre-me's have a choice of which one to take, the red one tells us how deep the rabbit hole goes, the other lets us continue to be happy in our make-believe world - which would you choose now that you've heard how deep the hole goes, do you want a deeper understanding of life and how truly difficult it is? Or would you rather continue in your semi-reality TV world? The choice is up to you... Only you decide... anyone hear a phone ringing????????

 

[silas2642]

parents... and i honestly can't think of anything else to do. horrible reasons i know...

i need to just grow a pair and think of another profession, cuz i should NOT be a doctor 👎

Dude, you gotta get out of this somehow-- for your patients and for yourself. You are going to be the most miserable person on the face of this earth (and I mean this quite literally) if you get into medicine for any other reason other than that you are passionate about it. Seriously, think of a way to confront your parents whether you write them a letter explaining how you really don't want to do this, have a dinner with them, whatever. They may be disappointed at first, but you're their kid and I'm sure they'll love you no matter what. But for goodness sake, get out and get out now; enjoy your life and find what you do love!! Good luck man.

 

[silas2642]

Med school changes you. But it's not because it is too much work or you are studying too hard or anything like that. It is because you are trained to see people differently. It doesn't matter how idealistic you are, you will see patients differently during your residency.

Go and read House of God by Samuel Shem. The premeds will probably be horrified by how he refers to the older patients. But you will be just like Roy at some point.

Having said that, things change again for attendings, from what I have seen. Attendings make it through those cynical residency years and their idealism (that has been there all along) can show again.

Yeah, I've read that book... it's hysterical and frightening all at the same time. So is Intern Blues, but despite reading all of this and knowing what I'm getting myself into, I still want to go into medicine more than ever. Is this indicative of a learning disability?

 

[IDforMe]

I appreciate this post because I think it's true that pre-meds can be idealistic or naive when it comes to medicine. I'm in my mid 20's and a pre-med student. Never once did I think before that I'd be pursuing medicine, but I've always felt that I wanted to help people (hmm idealism right here?? 😉 ) and that perhaps I have something to give back. In my mind the path to being a doctor is all about change, challenges, and once in a while that no-words-could-ever describe feeling; a sense of fulfillment.

I know I could be pursuing about a dozen other occupations that would make decent money, take less time, less stress, and definately would offer more of a balanced personal life, but when it comes down to it, it just wouldn't be enough for me. There's been too many days when I'd ask myself "What the h*** are you doing or Do you really think you can do this??!" But it's always this feeling, maybe it is naivete, that keeps me going. Medicine and being a doctor for me means that its a humbling experience; there's much sacrifice and hard work involved, but what you can give to others and doing what your truly want to do in life makes it all very worth while.

Disillusionment and pain will surely be part of the experience, but I think that if you've already experienced that in life then it can only make your task ahead much more clearer.

I could not have said it better myself. I understand EXACTLY what you mean. The part where you mentioned fufillment is very similar to what I wrote in one of my essays (in a more formal way of course, but same emotion).

 

[IDforMe]

I was thinking about this thread as I was walking my dogs today - and I was reminded of the Matrix - the 1st one.. the red and blue pill - I guess each of us pre-me's have a choice of which one to take, the red one tells us how deep the rabbit hole goes, the other lets us continue to be happy in our make-believe world - which would you choose now that you've heard how deep the hole goes, do you want a deeper understanding of life and how truly difficult it is? Or would you rather continue in your semi-reality TV world? The choice is up to you... Only you decide... anyone hear a phone ringing????????

I made that decision a long time ago. And knowing that there's more out there... well, I can't stop from finding what it is. (Although as I mentioned in one of my other posts on this thread, I might be happier if I couldn't sense there was more to life than just going through the motions.) In some ways, sometimes I think I'm too sensitive to such things for my own good. The old saying about "Curiosity killed the cat." rings a little too true. While I might be happier in ignorance, I can't stop myself from delving deeper to the meaning of things.

 

[IDforMe]

Yeah, I've read that book... it's hysterical and frightening all at the same time. So is Intern Blues, but despite reading all of this and knowing what I'm getting myself into, I still want to go into medicine more than ever. Is this indicative of a learning disability?

I think we have the same learning disability then.
Here's for being like lab monkeys pushing the same electrified button over, and over, and over again. 😛

 

[CTSballer11]

I think we have the same learning disability then.
Here's for being like lab monkeys pushing the same electrified button over, and over, and over again. 😛

LOL, yea. My uncle is a doc and he has been very supportive of me wanting to become a doctor. I talked to him earlier today and I asked him if he had to do it all over agian would he? He said that he would, but you have to go into medical school with a realistic attitude towards medicine and you have to be ready to take your fair share of abuse. He has told me quite a few horror stories about his surgical residency.