Name Change to MD, DO
Started by bubbabott
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I agree that everyone is entitled to have an opinion.I have no complex at all.
When issues are getting hot...People said "enough and enough"
Now people accuse me of self-promotion. If people google my name, the first thing you see is the website of my group, and there is no link between my blog and my practice website. So where is the self-serving?
Now a DO student trying to report of me spamming? that sounds stalking and harassment to me. is it the attempt of shutting me down? hmhm...why all this hatred? most of my commentaries are referenced.
Believe SDN does well with the monitoring. They dont see a problem, but a DO student does?
1.)I think that people are getting tired of seeing the multiple references/threads you are making about the situation at TCOM which is why people getting annoyed. If you cut those to a min. and occasionally bumped it I bet people would get less annoyed.
2.)I have personally been to your site and I don't see any self serving on it and haven't said as much. Let the medical student's report you and if SDN finds no fault on your part then they won't do anything RIGHT.
3.)Your attitude at times turns people off. I remember you attacked the PA/DO bridge a few months ago.
4.)Lastily, your name calling. Your a Physician and a D.O. instead of embracing the students(Which you are probably a good bit older than) you instead attack them. Be the bigger person and try to no to do that if you feel threatened and reasonably defend your arguments instead.
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1) Guys. Don't make the (likely) youngest person among us all, me, remind you to stop bickering like children. We all get both your points. Both your prides have been pinched by somewhat dumb commentary on both sides. Its cool. Chill out. No one is going to 'win' this argument. I know. I "try" to "win" arguments here all the time. It's a sisyphean labor.
2) This topic is so far off track that I'm siding with DoktorB. This topic is now about spam.
Specifically, why "spam and pineapples" is an acceptable shish kebab in Hawaii. Spam is never an acceptable meat, especially not on kebab, where the meat is such a big pull.
2) This topic is so far off track that I'm siding with DoktorB. This topic is now about spam.
Specifically, why "spam and pineapples" is an acceptable shish kebab in Hawaii. Spam is never an acceptable meat, especially not on kebab, where the meat is such a big pull.
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remembering PA-DO bridge...it was a bad statement on my part and i posted an apology right the way, didnt i?
Regarding the "henchman' comment...it is odd and coincidental that all recent accusations came out of nowhere except that i recently sent letters to UNTHSC faculty members.
I will report you for spamming every time you actively link your blog on SDN.
I will not report you for spamming if you post an opinion on SDN without a link to your blog.
Write anything you want on SDN, but if you link your blog then I'm reporting it as spam.
If this is how you respond when you come under fire for an unrelated issue, then please step down from your podium of crazy and let someone else fight for your cause, perhaps someone who can argue coherently. The people who share your complaints do not need someone who sounds like a paranoid conspiracy theorist when he is under attack. All I've asked is that you not keep firing off blog links every time you decide to post here and you've made me out to be a saboteur affiliated with UNTHSC trying to undermine the opinion of a single graduate out of the thousands of graduates that they've had. If I need someone to defend my degree I'd prefer someone who can distinguish an attack on their opinion of UNTHSC and an attack on them SPAMMING SDN WITH LINKS TO THEIR BLOG.
The state I am from is not Texas and the medical school I attend is not in Texas and you can ask a moderator to confirm that for you.
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I take your advice in consideration by congratualing the new self-appointed censor.
"In light of recent, worldwide condemnations of the Egyptian regime closing down internet access and the social media networks in an attempt to shut down communication among the protestors, one should wonder about similar, albeit more limited, censorship by news media outlets in the United States. The role of media in the United States, which enjoys the "soft power" that makes it similar in many ways to a fourth branch of the government, has the ability to exercise that power without any formal accountability to ensure that all viewpoints are heard. In a representative democracy, it is up to citizens to recognize that fact, and to seek out news and information sources that give them the facts they need to make well-informed judgments on topics in the news."
[URL removed]
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I heard private practice is super chill.
I've reported this post for advertising your website YET AGAIN. And comparing your situation to the situation in Egypt is absolutely laughable.
Here is the crux of the DO issue. When laypeople see, "MD" after someone's name, they know exactly what it is and what it implies. They know this person worked hard, went to medical school, worked even harder, and is a physician.
When laypeople see, "DO", to them it looks like every other pseudodoctorate out there (ODT, OD, DPT, AudD, etc) and does not carry with it the same meaning. Honestly, I doubt it ever will.
So, am I a bitter MD-wannabe who regrets becoming a DO? No, but I am tired of people assuming I'm not a physician simply because I'm not, "MD".
When laypeople see, "DO", to them it looks like every other pseudodoctorate out there (ODT, OD, DPT, AudD, etc) and does not carry with it the same meaning. Honestly, I doubt it ever will.
So, am I a bitter MD-wannabe who regrets becoming a DO? No, but I am tired of people assuming I'm not a physician simply because I'm not, "MD".
it could be worse, you could also be female and then assumed to be a pseudo doctorate nurse.......
anecdotally, this happens to me only once a year, and I've never been told by a pt or family that im ot a real physician nor have i had pts request transfer because I'm not a real physician. in a world where the average person can't tell a NPs from a physician, I'm not too concerned about it.
Sounds like you need to talk to someone about this.
I find it kind of funny all the people in this thread who pretend like this lack of recognition is water off a duck's back. I'm 99% certain it's just false internet bravado, and I know in real life it pisses them off. And it should.
I'm very interested to hear what practicing DOs have to say on the matter. I mean, c'mon, if you're being introduced to someone, or someone gets your mail, or any number of circumstances, the moment they see DO, they no longer think you're a DOCTOR. How does that not get to you? Have you found a way around it?
I'm very interested to hear what practicing DOs have to say on the matter. I mean, c'mon, if you're being introduced to someone, or someone gets your mail, or any number of circumstances, the moment they see DO, they no longer think you're a DOCTOR. How does that not get to you? Have you found a way around it?
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Maybe people dont assume your a physician because your in psych.....Just kidding!
Well, this is a separate issue. I'm mistaken for a psychologist all the time. For me, it's less bothersome because I find people more easily understand that a psychiatrist is a physician than a DO is also a physician. Psychiatrists have been given enough publicity (whether good or bad). Nobody ever made a movie about a family doctor 😉
The only place I introduce myself as a physician, or would want anyone to know that I'm a physician, is when I'm working. In that setting, there's no confusion about who I am, and I've never been mistaken for anything but a physician. Otherwise, I'm Joe Public when I'm in public, which is the way I want it to be. I don't tell people I'm a doctor willy nilly.
Of course, being the ER doc, you have no choice but to see me, so maybe if I were an internist and opened a solo practice no one would come because they wouldn't recognize the DO. *shrug*
Entertain this scenario:
You meet a girl. "Oh what do you do?" I'm a doctor.
She thinks MD. Or perhaps she tries to clarify, to make sure you're not a philosophy professor trying to play off their PhD. "Oh, like an MD?"
Any answer other than "yes, MD" gets thrown into the BS bin. Or the 'not real doctor' bin.
Now I guess once you're an attending, you can simply state your specialty? "I'm an ER doc." I guess that's the way around the confusion?
God fordbid you're in a specialty that people don't instantly recognize as being real docs like psych or PM&R. And for DO ophthalmologists, well ****, I'm surprised they don't all jump of buildings.
It is bothersome, and your observations are accurate.
I find that the types who comment that being a DO doesn't affect them in any way (and lambast those who feel otherwise) tend to be:
1.students
2.employed by a hospital, where patients don't usually have a choice whether or not to see you
3.in an area with a physician scarcity
4.apologists for the AOA and its utterly failed "awareness" campaigns.
My own personal experience is that those patients who ask me in the office about my degree don't necessarily have anything against DOs, they just don't know what one is and just want to verify that I am a legitimate physician as opposed to a chiropractor or other "alternative" practitioner. When I mention where I trained (a somewhat well-known ACGME hospital program) their concerns seem to be assuaged. But, I know that there are people who will never make it to my office because of my degree. Where I practice, there is a surplus of American-trained MDs. Savvy patients can easily look up information on their potential doctors and choose them accordingly.
An anecdote: An MD colleague of mine was covering the hospital for his group, and one of the inpatients happened to be his office patients of a few years. After discharging the patient, he reminded her to follow up with him in the office. The patient told him that, actually, while she liked him as a physician and a person, she would prefer to follow up with one of his partners. When asked why, she said that she was looking up the credentials of the physicians in the practice. He had attended a state MD program but his colleague was a graduate of a top-tier MD school, and on that basis alone wanted to switch over! Of course this is atypical, but don't think for a second that people aren't doing the same thing when it comes to us. The thing is, you will never see these patients, and will never know that you were "discriminated" against.
It's not a scenario that really plays out. If I told most people that I was a doctor, they wouldn't say 'oh, like an MD?', they'd ask where I worked, or guess the closest hospital.
PhD's usually say right off the bat that they're 'professors', or that they teach or do research at X college or business.
People around where I work are a bunch of hippies and artists, so in addition to the 'real' doctors, a large percentage of them see naturopaths, homeopaths, chiropractors, and of course, their lay therapists. I have a feeling they'd actually dig the 'osteopathic' slant of the degree.
I still wouldn't give them OMM in the ED, though.
Honestly, I'd like the name of the DO changed but if that doesn't happen, I'm okay with that. My college is going through a name change and even if they aren't successful, I'd be proud of my B.Sc whether it was granted by an institution known as Metropolitan State College of Denver (current name), Metropolitan State University of Denver, Denver State University or University of Central Colorado.
But still, a MD DO degree would not be without precedent. AT Still had "MD DO" credentials and McGill University awards a "MD CM" degree (meaning Medicinæ Doctorem et Chirurgiæ Magistrum).
But still, a MD DO degree would not be without precedent. AT Still had "MD DO" credentials and McGill University awards a "MD CM" degree (meaning Medicinæ Doctorem et Chirurgiæ Magistrum).
This is really the issue.
Just change it to MD, an Osteopathic MD. It's the only thing that makes sense.
If the DO degree were switched to MD, couldn't we just tag on additional credentials to highlight osteopathic training, similar to FACS for surgeons? Then there wouldn't be two degrees, it would be universally understood, and we could still differentiate ourselves.
Essentially what I'm suggesting is that osteopathic physicians would be double board certified, once in their chosen specialty and once in osteopathic medicine.
Essentially what I'm suggesting is that osteopathic physicians would be double board certified, once in their chosen specialty and once in osteopathic medicine.
Board certification has nothing to do with the degree you hold, but I understand what you are saying. In reality, your degree is moot. Nothing can be done with either a MD or DO unless you have an unrestricted license. They are basically two separate things, and nothing says you need to have a "DO" to take the COMLEX and become licenses, only that you attended a COCA-approved osteopathic medical college; the degree they decide to award is really up to them (I think).
I have only seen one instance in the 7 months of internship where a patient requested to be seen by, "an MD", mistakenly believing a fellow intern DO wasn't a physician. God only knows what they thought they were instead.
Most of the time, it's patients on the psychiatry ward with medical issues who refuse to take advice from any of us and request to speak to, "a medical doctor". That, unfortunately, will never change regardless of degree but does demonstrate how clueless the general public really is. Because of this, I really do not expect most people to ever understand that MD = DO.
People mistakenly believe this has to do with MD envy or being ashamed of being a DO. I admit that I think 90% of OMT is a little kooky, but I am not ashamed of being a DO and I would not have any issues doing it over again. It really boils down to brand recognition and the ignorance of the general public. Physician has always equaled MD, even though the earliest physicians had no degree at all. It's permanently etched into the collective mind of humanity and isn't going to change. That only leaves one end that can work to change.
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I think all this energy putting towards trying to change the DO name would be better spent educating the general public about the DO degree. I disagree with the belief that people are unwilling to accept that BOTH MD's and DO's are competent practicing physicians.
Everyone knows the general lack of understanding that the public has about DO. People who are uncomfortable with this or don't want to have to deal with such situations should have applied only to MD schools IMHO.
Changing the name of DO, I think, is really a kick in the face and shows a lack of respect to those who founded the DO philosophy, tradition, and purpose.
But again, this is all just my opinion.
Everyone knows the general lack of understanding that the public has about DO. People who are uncomfortable with this or don't want to have to deal with such situations should have applied only to MD schools IMHO.
Changing the name of DO, I think, is really a kick in the face and shows a lack of respect to those who founded the DO philosophy, tradition, and purpose.
But again, this is all just my opinion.
Easier to educate the public than change the initials? My goodness. The public is a sea of dumb. That will NEVER happen. The absolute only way it would even stand a chance of happening is if Hollywood stepped in and made House a DO or something along those lines. Otherwise, not happening.
Respect for those that founded the DO philosophy? Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I don't give six $hits about the founders of osteopathic medicine. I didn't join a social movement or a cult, I wanted to learn medicine and become a physician. Thank God becoming a DO affords me that opportunity, but to say I owe my identity to these initials is absurd. The only reason this discussion is taking place is because people want to be recognized and acknowledged for what they are and what they've done. It's not about being an MD, it's about being a PHYSICIAN. Yes DOs are physicians, but no one realizes that, and that's the problem.
If you think the reason this is even an issue is because of respect, I've got some news for you. The only reason people are putting up resistance of any sort is POWER AND SELF-INTEREST. Many people in powerful positions have a vested interest in creating this false dichotomy between MDs and DOs and will fight tooth and nail, and hang up stupid ass photos of some bearded idiot from 100 years ago in an OMM lab, to continue deluded young medical students to have pride in your degree and fight for it. It's a lie brah.
And a pre-emptive:
Easier to educate the public than change the initials? My goodness. The public is a sea of dumb. That will NEVER happen. The absolute only way it would even stand a chance of happening is if Hollywood stepped in and made House a DO or something along those lines. Otherwise, not happening.
Respect for those that founded the DO philosophy? Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I don't give six $hits about the founders of osteopathic medicine. I didn't join a social movement or a cult, I wanted to learn medicine and become a physician. Thank God becoming a DO affords me that opportunity, but to say I owe my identity to these initials is absurd. The only reason this discussion is taking place is because people want to be recognized and acknowledged for what they are and what they've done. It's not about being an MD, it's about being a PHYSICIAN. Yes DOs are physicians, but no one realizes that, and that's the problem.
If you think the reason this is even an issue is because of respect, I've got some news for you. The only reason people are putting up resistance of any sort is POWER AND SELF-INTEREST. Many people in powerful positions have a vested interest in creating this false dichotomy between MDs and DOs and will fight tooth and nail, and hang up stupid ass photos of some bearded idiot from 100 years ago in an OMM lab, to continue deluded young medical students to have pride in your degree and fight for it. It's a lie brah.
And a pre-emptive:
Sounds like you should have applied to MD schools instead if you didn't want to be a part of the "DO philosophy" or deal with the fact that perhaps the DO degree is not as recgonizable as you'd like it to be. I just find it to be a waste of time and energy in trying to change something that the AOA and, like you said, "powerful people" will never allow to change, or needs to be for that matter.
Nothing in life is perfect. I'm fine with being a DO, and I don't have a complex about it. But I find it absurd to hold onto a non-existent tradition when common-sense points to a need to make the degree more recognizable.
The long tooths in the AOA will need to be replaced sooner or later. Hopefully the new breed of DO that takes their place will make efforts to help the profession rather than help themselves. I'm not holding my breath, but stranger things have happened.
I always caught myself about to bow to the picture of Still after taking off my shoes, dojo style.
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hahaha ichi ni san shi...the nerdiest dojo on the planet
****ING nurses don't even know what a DO is!!! Case closed.
Nope, I think they're both a waste of time. What I was saying was that IF any time and energy is put into such a topic it should be for the former, not the latter. Also, you're not convincing Americans, you are educating them. Any logical person would be thoroughly satisfied with an explanation that DO equates MD when it comes to training. People who doesn't understand are the same type of people who want Harvard graduates over a state school graduate.
I'm just not sure why people are so passionate about the topic of awareness (even though I doubt it really is THAT big of a problem). I mean where was this concern when you were applying for/choosing medical school?
Again, I'm not trying to offend anyone. Just an opinion.
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You have too much faith. People think the dietician who comes in wearing, for some reason, a long white coat is a physician. I don't expect them to ever understand that DOs are equivelant to MDs despite being completely different. The only people who seem to, "get it" are the hipsters who also enjoy magnet therapy and munching various things they find in the woods. Do you really want to be supported by hipsters?
Moving to brooklyn in a few months. So I may be the only one who would answer your question with a resounding 'yes'. I heard they roam the streets killing anyone who talks ill of The Arcade Fire. I don't want to be on their bad side when I'm living there.
Maybe it's a bad example but under your reasoning the change in name is even more unnecessary... Just put on your white coat.
But anyways, I wish you guys luck with this endeavor. Even though I don't see the point in it, I can understand why you guys "want" it. Obviously, no one ever wants to be questioned or be doubted after years of blood, sweat, and tears... That's a major reason (among others) why I didn't apply to DO schools...
bwhahaah. I forgot how much I missed SDN.
I am absolutely convinced this is a non-issue.
Patient: "hi, who are you?"
Doc: "I'm the guy/girl that's going to fix/cure/manage/diagnose you"
Patient: "Great!"
Of course we could study this, but right now it is all claptrap. The degree isn't an issue. Access to GME is the key for all of us.
I am absolutely convinced this is a non-issue.
Patient: "hi, who are you?"
Doc: "I'm the guy/girl that's going to fix/cure/manage/diagnose you"
Patient: "Great!"
Of course we could study this, but right now it is all claptrap. The degree isn't an issue. Access to GME is the key for all of us.
You are going to have to get off of your high horse when you get into medical school. I agree that DNP being called a doc is dangerous, but your screw the MLP comment is a little off the mark.
E.
I think a little fire in the belly is good for our profession. This includes, but is not limited to, some name-calling. Too much kumbayah, and the next thing you know, you're saying "please sir?" to someone with a fraction of the investment in blood, sweat, and tears. **** that ****. Not on my watch.
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I like this guys opinions. I disagree with his feelings on merlot.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiOuroHPxRQ[/YOUTUBE]
No just no, not just hell no but HELLLLLLLLLLL NO! I have had too much of hipsters when I lived in Boulder...
I profoundly agree with you on this.
1.)I hope your not a D.O. with that attitude buddy. Your no better than some of the M.D.'s that told me I was stupid for going to a Quack school(I actually picked DO over MD. Seems like it is not as malignant.)
2.)Name calling gets NONE of us nowhere. To me that is one of the reasons why NP's/CRNA have encroached on our territority. We should be more focused on CONCRETE ways instead of the useless name calling. The public already thinks that Physicians are greedy and make too much money while Nurses(at least to me) are seen as angels.
3.)I am wondering if this more of the internet E-Courage.
I've never seen an MD talk **** about a DO. I've seen just the opposite. And I'm not suggesting a physician walk up to a NP/PA and call him a phaggot. I'm saying that we should not tiptoe around their sensitivities, nor should we passively rub lotion onto our buttocks while a cohort of lesser-trained people scream at the top of their lungs to an ill-informed public that they are the same, if not better, than the person standing next to them with years more training and $$$$$$ more debt to prove it.
So you're a PA and you're sensitive to their plight. Fine. But now you're going to become a physician. Put your big boy pants on and stop living in your past and start defending your future.
