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Locum CRNAs making 400-450k? Yikes, kinda sad I went through all this training and paid massive tuition when others spend half the effort and have convinced everyone that they are the same.
Napa
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The Locums market is booming for Anesthesiologists and CRNAs. Here are some recent numbers. Remember, the agency is charging around 30% more per hour for these same providers so the cost to the hospital is much, much higher:
1. MD- $325 per hour plus typically "call pay" for extra shifts. $325 x 40=$13,000. Call Shift (weekend)=$7800. Total; $20,800 x 45 weeks= $936,000
2. CRNA- $200 x 40= $8,000 (1 extra shift 8 hours= $1600)= $9600 x 45 weeks $432,000.
As you can see the providers can earn a great deal of money in this market. I know both types of providers earning this much money or more per year.
I left out the car allowance, housing allowance, food allowance, etc which most locums get in their contracts. That ranges from a low of $1500 up to $4,000 per month.
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This should be moved to the private forum imo
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That's a little low for my region.
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You hiring?
Yup. One of the CRNA couples I work with cleared 830k last year between both of them. I know one of them well. We live 10 min apart. So it’s just not heresy.
Honestly I would do MD locums full time if it werent for my kids. I like being home by 3pm (some days 12pm). So I’m willing to make less
But I’m working on a couple of locums gigs for the summer. The min I will work for is $325/hr which I can get with envoy at hospital 12 min from my house. But I’d be willing to travel 2 hours to make $400/hr. The upper mid west is paying $400/hr guarantee 50 hours a week and it’s a large city with professional sports.
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I am, but not locums.
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What city is that?
Depends what the work load. That’s the real question. $400/hr working in ghetto place with no anesthesia tech dealing with Asa 4.5 patients etc may not be worth it.
I’d take $325/hr with CRNA is covering. Ob while I sleep in house with the time clock running
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Getting paid more to *not* have to cover CRNAs is worth it in almost any situation. The other day, I dealt with a CRNA who refused to come out and mask ventilate a rapidly desatting & cyanotic obese patient. I had to physically remove the blade from the patient's mouth as the patient's HR dropped precipitously. Things that just don't happen when I'm by myself...
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can you explain to me what you did to lower your effective tax rate with a 1099?
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Why do crnas announce on TikTok etc how much money they make. I am well compensated in a desirable city and don’t openly discuss my salary.
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why are you surprised? they like to talk big about how great they are and that also means how much $$$ they make.
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Deduct expenses out the wazoo.
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Because they're CRNAs and have an inferiority complex.
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Aggressive deduction of "expenses"
E.g. in another thread he was telling us he deducted a $10K home theater because he hooked up a laptop to it once and checked his work email.
Be as aggressive as you dare, I guess. 🙂
Corporations are far worse with use of private jets for personal use even written into executives contracts (though the irs has changed the rules on personal use of jets in the past few years).
Hospitals write off “charity” cases all the time. Excessive tax write off. That $200 head cold indigent care visit is written off as a $2000 uncompensated ER visit in super bill.
Who’s the crook here? Us or them?
Both.
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Good luck with the "but corporations commit bigger acts of fraud than me" defense. 🙂
The main points is to keep ur average business deductions to less than 50%.
Say you generate 700k 1099. Write off 300k
Pay urself a nominal salary 150k is fine these days. Pay the non working spouse a nominal salary for book keeping (spouse has college degree in accounting). Put away 100k-150k plus retirement (or around 80k between spouse and u in solo 401k)
It’s not that hard to get down to 15% effective tax rate.
40% of people effective tax rate is 0. As in zero most years anyways. During the pandemic a whopping 60% of people paid no federal income taxes
COVID-19 Tax Relief Added to Increasing Share of Households Paying No Income Tax
In 2020, about 60 percent of households did not pay income tax, up from 43.6 percent of households in 2019. Much of the 2020 increase was due to pandemic-related factors, but the growing share of households paying no income tax should be kept in mind when evaluating the progressivity of the...
taxfoundation.org
I really do not get the hate with paying less income taxes. I still pay sales taxes. The more you spend. The more you contribute to the economy. I still pay real estate taxes for the schools.
Even as w2. My w2 income was 470k last year (working 35 hours a week with no weekday calls home at 1-3pm most days and incentive based weekend call when I want ). My effective tax rate was 21%.
The locums guys I know made 600k paid 12% effective tax rate. The locums who made 1.5 million paid 18% effective tax rate.
The main points is to keep ur average business deductions to less than 50%.
Say you generate 700k 1099. Write off 300k
Pay urself a nominal salary 150k is fine these days. Pay the non working spouse a nominal salary for book keeping (spouse has college degree in accounting). Put away 100k-150k plus retirement (or around 80k between spouse and u in solo 401k)
It’s not that hard to get down to 15% effective tax rate.
40% of people effective tax rate is 0. As in zero most years anyways. During the pandemic a whopping 60% of people paid no federal income taxes
COVID-19 Tax Relief Added to Increasing Share of Households Paying No Income Tax
In 2020, about 60 percent of households did not pay income tax, up from 43.6 percent of households in 2019. Much of the 2020 increase was due to pandemic-related factors, but the growing share of households paying no income tax should be kept in mind when evaluating the progressivity of the...
I really do not get the hate with paying less income taxes. I still pay sales taxes. The more you spend. The more you contribute to the economy. I still pay real estate taxes for the schools.
Even as w2. My w2 income was 470k last year (working 35 hours a week with no weekday calls home at 1-3pm most days and incentive based weekend call when I want ). My effective tax rate was 21%.
The locums guys I know made 600k paid 12% effective tax rate. The locums who made 1.5 million paid 18% effective tax rate.
Do you know any 1099 docs who are similarly “aggressive” who have been audited and how they fared from the audit?
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Man. What a completely made up post. Wow.The main points is to keep ur average business deductions to less than 50%.
Say you generate 700k 1099. Write off 300k
Pay urself a nominal salary 150k is fine these days. Pay the non working spouse a nominal salary for book keeping (spouse has college degree in accounting). Put away 100k-150k plus retirement (or around 80k between spouse and u in solo 401k)
It’s not that hard to get down to 15% effective tax rate.
40% of people effective tax rate is 0. As in zero most years anyways. During the pandemic a whopping 60% of people paid no federal income taxes
COVID-19 Tax Relief Added to Increasing Share of Households Paying No Income Tax
In 2020, about 60 percent of households did not pay income tax, up from 43.6 percent of households in 2019. Much of the 2020 increase was due to pandemic-related factors, but the growing share of households paying no income tax should be kept in mind when evaluating the progressivity of the...
I really do not get the hate with paying less income taxes. I still pay sales taxes. The more you spend. The more you contribute to the economy. I still pay real estate taxes for the schools.
Even as w2. My w2 income was 470k last year (working 35 hours a week with no weekday calls home at 1-3pm most days and incentive based weekend call when I want ). My effective tax rate was 21%.
The locums guys I know made 600k paid 12% effective tax rate. The locums who made 1.5 million paid 18% effective tax rate.
Oh, I don’t doubt it. I have seen some extreme behavior in my time. I just question how such behavior would be looked at if scrutinized.
How is it completely made up?
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Spend part of the first and last day of a vacation doing something work related
Made up or not, I've seen multiple docs who are more aggressive than this. So far none of them have been audited, so I can't say what happens when they get caught. I try to keep my distance.
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Why does it sound made up?
1.5m * 20% = 300000k
That’s still a lot of money going to taxes.
1.5M right off the bat there’s about 150K going to retirement (for you and spouse). Insurances, overhead, and all other expenses…. I can see easily add up to another 250K (health insurance, malpractice insurance, cars, office, equipments, internet/phone, travel…. Whatever that be paid from pre-tax money). Then some standard deduction….. I can see someone only get taxed on the remaining 1M.
“the tax on $1 million for a single person in 2022 is $332,955.” Kipling.com
But effective tax is little over 20%.
Unless my math and understanding is totally off….
1.5m * 20% = 300000k
That’s still a lot of money going to taxes.
1.5M right off the bat there’s about 150K going to retirement (for you and spouse). Insurances, overhead, and all other expenses…. I can see easily add up to another 250K (health insurance, malpractice insurance, cars, office, equipments, internet/phone, travel…. Whatever that be paid from pre-tax money). Then some standard deduction….. I can see someone only get taxed on the remaining 1M.
“the tax on $1 million for a single person in 2022 is $332,955.” Kipling.com
But effective tax is little over 20%.
Unless my math and understanding is totally off….
dude. I said 300k on 700k 1099 income
1.5 million. My homeboys and I mean it literally. They got side beach condos they went for the side women. It’s excessive spending. That’s another 50k
Multiple section 179 in addition to the leases. It’s a different operation when u are functioning over 7 figures.
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The main points is to keep ur average business deductions to less than 50%.
Say you generate 700k 1099. Write off 300k
Pay urself a nominal salary 150k is fine these days. Pay the non working spouse a nominal salary for book keeping (spouse has college degree in accounting). Put away 100k-150k plus retirement (or around 80k between spouse and u in solo 401k)
It’s not that hard to get down to 15% effective tax rate.
40% of people effective tax rate is 0. As in zero most years anyways. During the pandemic a whopping 60% of people paid no federal income taxes
COVID-19 Tax Relief Added to Increasing Share of Households Paying No Income Tax
In 2020, about 60 percent of households did not pay income tax, up from 43.6 percent of households in 2019. Much of the 2020 increase was due to pandemic-related factors, but the growing share of households paying no income tax should be kept in mind when evaluating the progressivity of the...
I really do not get the hate with paying less income taxes. I still pay sales taxes. The more you spend. The more you contribute to the economy. I still pay real estate taxes for the schools.
Even as w2. My w2 income was 470k last year (working 35 hours a week with no weekday calls home at 1-3pm most days and incentive based weekend call when I want ). My effective tax rate was 21%.
The locums guys I know made 600k paid 12% effective tax rate. The locums who made 1.5 million paid 18% effective tax rate.
Nice man that's a great life
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Dude. I am agreeing with you…..
You said a locum who made 1.5M with an effective tax rate of 18%.
I am merely rounding everything to demonstrate that to get to 18% (or 20% in my example) effective tax rate isn’t that hard.
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The main points is to keep ur average business deductions to less than 50%.
Say you generate 700k 1099. Write off 300k
Pay urself a nominal salary 150k is fine these days. Pay the non working spouse a nominal salary for book keeping (spouse has college degree in accounting). Put away 100k-150k plus retirement (or around 80k between spouse and u in solo 401k)
It’s not that hard to get down to 15% effective tax rate.
40% of people effective tax rate is 0. As in zero most years anyways. During the pandemic a whopping 60% of people paid no federal income taxes
COVID-19 Tax Relief Added to Increasing Share of Households Paying No Income Tax
In 2020, about 60 percent of households did not pay income tax, up from 43.6 percent of households in 2019. Much of the 2020 increase was due to pandemic-related factors, but the growing share of households paying no income tax should be kept in mind when evaluating the progressivity of the...
I really do not get the hate with paying less income taxes. I still pay sales taxes. The more you spend. The more you contribute to the economy. I still pay real estate taxes for the schools.
Even as w2. My w2 income was 470k last year (working 35 hours a week with no weekday calls home at 1-3pm most days and incentive based weekend call when I want ). My effective tax rate was 21%.
The locums guys I know made 600k paid 12% effective tax rate. The locums who made 1.5 million paid 18% effective tax rate.
The reason I keep giving you **** about it is because you're openly, proudly committing tax fraud, and then using your fraudulently low overall tax rate to talk up the virtues of 1099 income.
And your only defenses are "well corporations break the law worse" and "if you don't deduct more than half (!!) of your business income your audit risk is low" ...
I mean you'll probably keep getting away with it, but it's dishonest and risky and terrible advice for others.
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$80 Billion in IRS funding the majority of which will be used to hire agents and audit small businesses and Independent Contractors. The vast majority of audits will be through the mail and result in significant fines to small businesses or they must hire lawyers/CPAS to defend against in-house audit. Either way it's going to cost you money in the range of $15,000-$50,000 depending on how "aggressive" you are with those deductions.
For 2023, I would be less aggressive than 2022 and even more so in 2024 when those agents come on board full time.
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Yes, going 10mph over the speed limit and committing tax fraud to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars are exactly the same thing.
There are rules and there are gray areas.
Just like who exactly is classified as a 1099 worker or w2.
Very few “independent 1099 contractors” meet the definition of what the irs terms independent contractor. Especially those with long term 1099 contract work.
Hospitals write off those expenses as well. Avoid payroll taxes.
That’s far worst than what the small guys are doing with their deductions.
There are so many shady business deductions.
People who own real estate. Off set
Their losses in one property with another property that actually makes money. That’s very grey area as they are suppose to be treated as separate entities. After all. The properties are registered as separate entities for liabilities purposes with same owner. Govt allows it
I can go on and on.
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The statute of limitations for an IRS audit is typically three years, with the clock starting once you file, explained John Apisa, a CPA and partner at PKF O’Connor Davies LLP. But there’s no time limit when the agency is pursuing tax fraud.
Generally, the agency uses software to compare each return to others with similar income, assigning a numeric score to each one, with higher numbers more likely to trigger an audit.
_______________________
What this means is if you have gross 1099 income of $650,000 but declare $200,000 with Federal taxes of $43,000 you are at risk of an audit. Yes, I know several providers paying taxes that low by gaming the system. If it's legal be prepared to back it up. 1099 providers pay as little as 9-10% of their gross income in Federal taxes which is why the IRS is going to increase audits dramatically on these individuals.
Generally, the agency uses software to compare each return to others with similar income, assigning a numeric score to each one, with higher numbers more likely to trigger an audit.
_______________________
What this means is if you have gross 1099 income of $650,000 but declare $200,000 with Federal taxes of $43,000 you are at risk of an audit. Yes, I know several providers paying taxes that low by gaming the system. If it's legal be prepared to back it up. 1099 providers pay as little as 9-10% of their gross income in Federal taxes which is why the IRS is going to increase audits dramatically on these individuals.
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What matters is the IRS. I expect audits to triple in 2024 and 2025 vs 2022. As long as whatever you are doing in 2023 will survive an audit then what others think doesn't matter. $80 billion is being given to the IRS so the agency can bring in 3 X that amount from taxpayers. The only way to accomplish that feat is by auditing a lot of taxpayers like you.
The IRS said $47.4 billion -- nearly 60% of the $79.4 billion worth of investments listed in the plan -- would be allocated toward expanded enforcement of "taxpayers with complex tax filings and high-dollar noncompliance."
Those audit targets include wealthy individuals, corporations and complex partnerships, which have grown in number while IRS audit staff has shrunk by nearly half over the past decade, new IRS Commissioner Danny Werfel told reporters.
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People cheating on their taxes isn't a victimless crime.
But even if you want to argue that point on semantics, the idea that @pgg is calling someone out for willfully breaking the law/suggesting others follow suit simply because he's jealous....is asinine.
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Reuters | Breaking International News & Views
Find latest news from every corner of the globe at Reuters.com, your online source for breaking international news coverage.
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What kind of hilariously dumb rationalizing are you doing right now?
Guy on a public forum: "Hey, probably not a good idea to cheat on your taxes, say you're doing so because corporations also do it, and then suggest other people engage in criminal fraud like that"
You: "SANCTIMONIOUS BUSYBODY!!!!"
🤡
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I know most already made up their minds.
Here’s something I just googled.
Spouse
Computer
www.keepertax.com
Travel
How to Deduct Travel Expenses (with Examples) | Bench Accounting (I especially like the overseas travel, if more than 25% business related then it’s considered business… who knew…)
These are just the first entry that popped up for me. Some of these are more nuanced/gray than I think most will admit.
As I’ve also mentioned already long ago. Most of them mega million (so billionaires, I suppose) pay effective taxes less than 1%. And that 1 trillion dollar figure, probably mostly made up by them than physicians who are still paying at least 10 (10%) times than those.
And also look at Justice Thomas…. Whatever he is doing with his money or perks…. If he can rationalize it we should be able to too…..
Here’s something I just googled.
Spouse
Computer
Self-Employed Computer Tax Deductions: The Ultimate Guide
For freelancers and self-employed people, the computers you use for work are tax-deductible. You can write off the full cost, or depreciate it.
www.keepertax.com
Travel
How to Deduct Travel Expenses (with Examples) | Bench Accounting (I especially like the overseas travel, if more than 25% business related then it’s considered business… who knew…)
These are just the first entry that popped up for me. Some of these are more nuanced/gray than I think most will admit.
As I’ve also mentioned already long ago. Most of them mega million (so billionaires, I suppose) pay effective taxes less than 1%. And that 1 trillion dollar figure, probably mostly made up by them than physicians who are still paying at least 10 (10%) times than those.
And also look at Justice Thomas…. Whatever he is doing with his money or perks…. If he can rationalize it we should be able to too…..
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No one here is saying one shouldn't avail oneself of every legal tax avoidance measure out there.I know most already made up their minds.
Here’s something I just googled.
Spouse
Computer
Self-Employed Computer Tax Deductions: The Ultimate Guide
For freelancers and self-employed people, the computers you use for work are tax-deductible. You can write off the full cost, or depreciate it.
Travel
How to Deduct Travel Expenses (with Examples) | Bench Accounting (I especially like the overseas travel, if more than 25% business related then it’s considered business… who knew…)
These are just the first entry that popped up for me. Some of these are more nuanced/gray than I think most will admit.
As I’ve also mentioned already long ago. Most of them mega million (so billionaires, I suppose) pay effective taxes less than 1%. And that 1 trillion dollar figure, probably mostly made up by them than physicians who are still paying at least 10 (10%) times than those.
And also look at Justice Thomas…. Whatever he is doing with his money or perks…. If he can rationalize it we should be able to too…..
But paying yourself $150k from your S-corp and calling that a "reasonable salary" for a FT anesthesiologist even though you had a $700k gross income is ludicrous, criminal, and stupid.
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I started the thread to get peoples impression and experiences with NAPA and it quickly generalized to AMCs in general to tax fraud in particular, in fewer than 100 posts 🤣
Arch Guillotti
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That's pushing the limit.
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I’ve spoken to multiple CPAs in town and their anesthesiologists all take salaries of 120-160
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Seems like a lot of God fearing, religious patriots hate paying taxes.
There are patterns just like women who love cats usually like to drink tea.
God probably hates taxes too. That’s why churches are tax exempt.
There are patterns just like women who love cats usually like to drink tea.
God probably hates taxes too. That’s why churches are tax exempt.
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OR anesthesia is much, much closer to a shift gig like EM, whereas FM or derm etc can run all kinds of side businesses / sales of supplemental services or meds that justify lowering the salary.
Do you feel lucky?
That’s baloney.
It’s the 1/3 rule. That’s why I paid myself 130k w2 wages (remember I still pay full social security wages back then) and Medicare. So govt still get my w2 portion of payroll taxes. That’s only roughy 500k 1099
If I were making 750k 1099. I would pay myself 250k.
CRNA 1099 pay themselves 50k w2 wages (as “RNs”.
You just list ur professional as medical on the tax returns. It doesn’t list the actual speciality as physicians.
The ski cme with $200 plus lift tickets I took. That’s a 20k tax write off alone. Totally legit. With cme to prove it. Tons of snow this year by the way. But the reality is I’m only getting a 30% discount. So tax write offs are nice but u still pay 66% or the cost urself
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The vast majority of 1099 Anesthesiologists are not declaring 50% of their gross income as wages. That's why the IRS hates Independent Contractors. They get less money. I agree that about 1/3 of gross income is more typical for 1099 providers. Some declare a lot less because of a Cash Balance or Defined Benefit Plan.
For a S Corp there are 3 pots of money to divide up. #1 is salary. #2 Distributions K1 #3 expenses. So, typically expenses are 1/3 or more of the business leaving 1/3 for K1 and 1/3 for salary. On paper it still looks like you are paying yourself 1/2 of income in wages.
EXAMPLE:
S-Corp- $600,000 gross income. $200,000 expenses, $200,000 K-1 and $200,000 Salary. Some like myself were able to push the expenses to $300,000 leaving just $150,000 for salary and $150,000 for K-1 distributions.
For a S Corp there are 3 pots of money to divide up. #1 is salary. #2 Distributions K1 #3 expenses. So, typically expenses are 1/3 or more of the business leaving 1/3 for K1 and 1/3 for salary. On paper it still looks like you are paying yourself 1/2 of income in wages.
EXAMPLE:
S-Corp- $600,000 gross income. $200,000 expenses, $200,000 K-1 and $200,000 Salary. Some like myself were able to push the expenses to $300,000 leaving just $150,000 for salary and $150,000 for K-1 distributions.
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This is where all the crypto kiddies are going to get ****ed. Yes, there are ways that we can pseudo-anonymize our transactions to avoid IRS scrutiny under their current capability.
I couldn't care less about their current capability. I'm worried about what they will be able to do in 20 years, as the automated block chain trackers get better and better.
Block chains are, by definition, public ledgers, and it's far easier to track crypto transactions than other form of payment. Given time, the IRS will know exactly what these guys have done, and they will retroactively enforce the law against the folks who are trying to evade.
Unless you buy your crypto in cash from an anonymous source, and it never touches your KYCd wallet, and, the biggest challenge, you take profits by selling to an anonymous source, the IRS will eventually catch you.
