National Boards Pass/Fail

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Dentgirl09 said:
I guess I like the idea. Takes the stress off. I can focus on doing well in my classes.... and then focus on doing well on the boards without having to worry about competing with others.
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That does not make sense.
Anyone who has focused on doing well in his/her classes will definitely pass the boards by a month of revision (I'm being too conservative). Also, how can you know whether you did well or not on a P/F exam?
 
robhmnt said:
That does not make sense.
Anyone who has focused on doing well in his/her classes will definitely pass the boards by a month of revision (I'm being too conservative). Also, how can you know whether you did well or not on a P/F exam?
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Why are you picking apart my sentences just to make them seem like they don't make sense. If there was anyone here who didn't get my general idea please do let me know. Other than that I'm pretty sure what I said was clear.
 
robhmnt said:
That does not make sense.
Anyone who has focused on doing well in his/her classes will definitely pass the boards by a month of revision (I'm being too conservative). Also, how can you know whether you did well or not on a P/F exam?
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i usually know if i do well or not on an exam right after i take it. :idea:
 
lotexigeus said:
i usually know if i do well or not on an exam right after i take it. :idea:
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Unless it's one of those crazy undergrad proffs who would write tests so difficult that the mean would hover around 50%!!! Those always made me feel stupid, even after the curve that made 55-65% an A.
 
Hysteria24 said:
Unless it's one of those crazy undergrad proffs who would write tests so difficult that the mean would hover around 50%!!! Those always made me feel stupid, even after the curve that made 55-65% an A.
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What if you think you did as well as an 85% on a test, and the average came out to be 90%? You would have thought you did well, but in fact wha you get here is a B-, or at most a B.
 
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Dentgirl09 said:
Why are you picking apart my sentences just to make them seem like they don't make sense. If there was anyone here who didn't get my general idea please do let me know. Other than that I'm pretty sure what I said was clear.
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I didn't pick apart your sentences. I quoted the paragraph which didn't make sense for me. You can blame it on my quoting though.
All I meant was that focusing to do well on a P/F board exam after two years of focusing on your dental courses makes no sense. If you can't get a pass on the boards, that is a different issue. Then you need to focus on that.
 
Just got an email from school, board p/f officially moved back to Jan, 2012. They had a meeting last month and finally JCNDE supported the decision to postpone p/f.
 
cons2universe said:
Just got an email from school, board p/f officially moved back to Jan, 2012. They had a meeting last month and finally JCNDE supported the decision to postpone p/f.
Click to expand...

Can anyone confirm this?
 
cons2universe said:
Just got an email from school, board p/f officially moved back to Jan, 2012. They had a meeting last month and finally JCNDE supported the decision to postpone p/f.
Click to expand...
Why did you have to make a new SDN ID to announce this? This should either get confirmed by other people, or you are gonna be getting the "Troll of the year award". I'm not accusing you though, just a bit suspicious.
 
robhmnt said:
Why did you have to make a new SDN ID to announce this? This should either get confirmed by other people, or you are gonna be getting the "Troll of the year award". I'm not accusing you though, just a bit suspicious.
Click to expand...

I've been SDNer very long time. You don't need to make an id to read the thread. It's just that I never thought I would post anything like this. But since everyone is killing about this, I thought it's good to share the news.
 
cons2universe said:
Just got an email from school, board p/f officially moved back to Jan, 2012. They had a meeting last month and finally JCNDE supported the decision to postpone p/f.
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sweeeeeet. i hope that's true!
 
cons2universe said:
Just got an email from school, board p/f officially moved back to Jan, 2012. They had a meeting last month and finally JCNDE supported the decision to postpone p/f.
Click to expand...

I hope this is true.
Would you please copy & paste the part of the email where it states this? which school are you enrolled in?
 
cons2universe said:
Just got an email from school, board p/f officially moved back to Jan, 2012. They had a meeting last month and finally JCNDE supported the decision to postpone p/f.
Click to expand...



NO, I was so excited about the pass/fail system. Has anyone else verified this?
 
Sajitude said:
NO, I was so excited about the pass/fail system. Has anyone else verified this?
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Why? It's still Pass/Fail. If you get 75 or better, you get a Pass. Below 75 is a fail.
 
armorshell said:
I don't get how people don't understand that if you don't care about specializing, everything in the whole "world" of dental school is Pass/Fail
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Because more people than you would ever think are considering specializing.
Everyone wants to 'keep that option open'.
 
Waitlisted2009 said:
???? Are you serious?
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Of course I am. Why is it so hard to grasp? If you get a passing grade, you passed. It doesn't matter what that grade is. If you want to specialize, then you will work as hard as you can for a good score. I can't see how anyone who wants to specialize would want the test to be P/F unless they don't believe they can do well enough to get a good score on the boards.
 
firasoblast said:
I hope this is true.
Would you please copy & paste the part of the email where it states this? which school are you enrolled in?
Click to expand...
Dear XXXXX students,

The Joint Commission on National Dental Exams (JCNDE) concluded its annual
meeting in Chicago today. I was the student member of the Commission and
wanted to update you a relevant item to CDM students and the post-graduate
specialty application process.

* **Reconsideration of Reporting Part 1 Scores*

In its March 2008 meeting, the JCNDE voted to institute Pass/Fail scoring
for the national board exams, effective January 1, 2010.

*What has happened since the 2008 JCNDE decision*

1) At the ADA House of Deleages in October, 2008 a resolution initiated
by specialty organizations among others was adopted which urged the JCNDE
to modify the test to make it vaild for quantitative scoring.

2) The JCNDE committee on Research and Development met in February and
considered the request of the ADA House of Delegates. The committee was
presented with validity studies on the Part 1 exam which indicated
that *measurement
error in scoring becomes larger and less reliable away from the 75 score
point and that P/F decisions on the exams are highly reliable*.

3) ADEA has taken preliminary steps to develop an alternate test which
is more reliable for evaluating candidates for advanced education programs.
They are bringing different stakeholder groups together (specialties,
educators, students) to work on this project. They have met extensively with
the ETS (education testing service), the leading company in standardized
test preparation and same group that produces the SAT. At this point it
appears that ADEA will not likely develop the test and that it will be some
form of modified ETS test (for example eg. a dental sciences GRE) that is
valid for predicting success for advanced education programs.

The commission was initially reluctant to consider shifting the date of P/F
adoption, but based on the reports of ADEA and the testimonies from ASDA
concerning the uncertainty among students, the commission voted to *“support
the decision of implementing a pass/fail reporting as of January 1, 2012 and
to support numerical scoring up to that time”*.

This was sent by our student officer.
 
thanks for posting that email


I did call up the ADEA today and they still stated that the exam will be pass/fail.

I really hope it gets pushed back until 2012.

Anyone else have insight into the situation?
 
What boards are we talking about? NREB? WREB? NBED? or something like that?
 
I am throwing a huge party this weekend. All those who want a scored NBDEI are invited (Sorry dentgirl).
 
robhmnt said:
I am throwing a huge party this weekend. All those who want a scored NBDEI are invited (Sorry dentgirl).
Click to expand...

Where is it? Count me in😀😀
 
Here's an email we received today regarding the issue.


Date: April 15, 2009
To: Dean and Academic Dean
From: Ron J. Seeley, D.D.S. Chair, Joint Commission on National Dental Examinations
Subject: Pass/Fail Policy

At its annual meeting, the Joint Commission on National Dental Examinations (JCNDE) revisited its 2008 decision to move all National Board Dental and Dental Hygiene Examinations to a Pass/Fail system beginning in January of 2010. The JCNDE did this because of expressed concern by some communities of interest regarding the decision itself and also the timing of implementation.

The JCNDE has been monitoring these inquiries closely and had a very good discussion about all the ramifications of the 2008 decision. In the end, the JCNDE at their 2009 meeting reaffirmed its decision to implement Pass/Fail reporting, but extended the implementation date to January of 2012. This was done for two very sensible reasons. 1) Some state licensing boards may need more time to open practice acts and make rules changes in order for their regulations to remain aligned with the JCNDE decision, and 2) ADEA’s development of an alternative instrument for the evaluation and ranking of students for such things as graduate education program admission purposes warrants this much additional lead time to complete necessary field tests and validation studies before full-scale implementation of an alternative instrument.

In reviewing the decision, the JCNDE carefully considered expressed and unexpressed concerns from all known communities of interest, and its decision to extend the date of implementation was made for very specific logistical reasons. In making this decision, the JCNDE was concerned that some communities of interest would misinterpret its intentions. The decision to extend the date of implementation should not be interpreted as reflecting any change of intention or construed as opening the way for future reconsideration. The JCNDE’s decision to proceed with implementation of Pass/Fail reporting was unanimously reaffirmed, and communities of interest are advised that these Commissioners will not revisit the date certain of January 1, 2012.

On behalf of the entire Commission I want to thank all parties who expressed concern or support and in any way communicated with the JCNDE relative to this important issue. The JCNDE will move forward with the other business it must necessarily conduct.
 
This might sound silly but I have a question.
Since boards will be pass fail after we take the part I.... will our part I be graded and our part II be pass/ fail? HOW DOES THIS WORK?
Vicarbo said:
Here's an email we received today regarding the issue.


Date: April 15, 2009
To: Dean and Academic Dean
From: Ron J. Seeley, D.D.S. Chair, Joint Commission on National Dental Examinations
Subject: Pass/Fail Policy

At its annual meeting, the Joint Commission on National Dental Examinations (JCNDE) revisited its 2008 decision to move all National Board Dental and Dental Hygiene Examinations to a Pass/Fail system beginning in January of 2010. The JCNDE did this because of expressed concern by some communities of interest regarding the decision itself and also the timing of implementation.

The JCNDE has been monitoring these inquiries closely and had a very good discussion about all the ramifications of the 2008 decision. In the end, the JCNDE at their 2009 meeting reaffirmed its decision to implement Pass/Fail reporting, but extended the implementation date to January of 2012. This was done for two very sensible reasons. 1) Some state licensing boards may need more time to open practice acts and make rules changes in order for their regulations to remain aligned with the JCNDE decision, and 2) ADEA’s development of an alternative instrument for the evaluation and ranking of students for such things as graduate education program admission purposes warrants this much additional lead time to complete necessary field tests and validation studies before full-scale implementation of an alternative instrument.

In reviewing the decision, the JCNDE carefully considered expressed and unexpressed concerns from all known communities of interest, and its decision to extend the date of implementation was made for very specific logistical reasons. In making this decision, the JCNDE was concerned that some communities of interest would misinterpret its intentions. The decision to extend the date of implementation should not be interpreted as reflecting any change of intention or construed as opening the way for future reconsideration. The JCNDE’s decision to proceed with implementation of Pass/Fail reporting was unanimously reaffirmed, and communities of interest are advised that these Commissioners will not revisit the date certain of January 1, 2012.

On behalf of the entire Commission I want to thank all parties who expressed concern or support and in any way communicated with the JCNDE relative to this important issue. The JCNDE will move forward with the other business it must necessarily conduct.
Click to expand...
 
Dentgirl09 said:
This might sound silly but I have a question.
Since boards will be pass fail after we take the part I.... will our part I be graded and our part II be pass/ fail? HOW DOES THIS WORK?
Click to expand...
i was thinking the exact same thing the other day, and from what i've heard, is that if you take it when its graded, you have a grade. If you take it when it's p/f then you receive a P

So i would assume, that part I you get a grade (great if you want to specialize)
and in part II, you get a P!!!

seems like the best of both worlds to me
 
Vicarbo said:
Here's an email we received today regarding the issue.


Date: April 15, 2009
To: Dean and Academic Dean
From: Ron J. Seeley, D.D.S. Chair, Joint Commission on National Dental Examinations
Subject: Pass/Fail Policy

At its annual meeting, the Joint Commission on National Dental Examinations (JCNDE) revisited its 2008 decision to move all National Board Dental and Dental Hygiene Examinations to a Pass/Fail system beginning in January of 2010. The JCNDE did this because of expressed concern by some communities of interest regarding the decision itself and also the timing of implementation.

The JCNDE has been monitoring these inquiries closely and had a very good discussion about all the ramifications of the 2008 decision. In the end, the JCNDE at their 2009 meeting reaffirmed its decision to implement Pass/Fail reporting, but extended the implementation date to January of 2012. This was done for two very sensible reasons. 1) Some state licensing boards may need more time to open practice acts and make rules changes in order for their regulations to remain aligned with the JCNDE decision, and 2) ADEA’s development of an alternative instrument for the evaluation and ranking of students for such things as graduate education program admission purposes warrants this much additional lead time to complete necessary field tests and validation studies before full-scale implementation of an alternative instrument.

In reviewing the decision, the JCNDE carefully considered expressed and unexpressed concerns from all known communities of interest, and its decision to extend the date of implementation was made for very specific logistical reasons. In making this decision, the JCNDE was concerned that some communities of interest would misinterpret its intentions. The decision to extend the date of implementation should not be interpreted as reflecting any change of intention or construed as opening the way for future reconsideration. The JCNDE’s decision to proceed with implementation of Pass/Fail reporting was unanimously reaffirmed, and communities of interest are advised that these Commissioners will not revisit the date certain of January 1, 2012.

On behalf of the entire Commission I want to thank all parties who expressed concern or support and in any way communicated with the JCNDE relative to this important issue. The JCNDE will move forward with the other business it must necessarily conduct.
Click to expand...


oh yeah 👍
 
No, they're pushing it back to 2012.


Vicarbo said:
Here's an email we received today regarding the issue.


Date: April 15, 2009
To: Dean and Academic Dean
From: Ron J. Seeley, D.D.S. Chair, Joint Commission on National Dental Examinations
Subject: Pass/Fail Policy

At its annual meeting, the Joint Commission on National Dental Examinations (JCNDE) revisited its 2008 decision to move all National Board Dental and Dental Hygiene Examinations to a Pass/Fail system beginning in January of 2010. The JCNDE did this because of expressed concern by some communities of interest regarding the decision itself and also the timing of implementation.

The JCNDE has been monitoring these inquiries closely and had a very good discussion about all the ramifications of the 2008 decision. In the end, the JCNDE at their 2009 meeting reaffirmed its decision to implement Pass/Fail reporting, but extended the implementation date to January of 2012. This was done for two very sensible reasons. 1) Some state licensing boards may need more time to open practice acts and make rules changes in order for their regulations to remain aligned with the JCNDE decision, and 2) ADEA’s development of an alternative instrument for the evaluation and ranking of students for such things as graduate education program admission purposes warrants this much additional lead time to complete necessary field tests and validation studies before full-scale implementation of an alternative instrument.

In reviewing the decision, the JCNDE carefully considered expressed and unexpressed concerns from all known communities of interest, and its decision to extend the date of implementation was made for very specific logistical reasons. In making this decision, the JCNDE was concerned that some communities of interest would misinterpret its intentions. The decision to extend the date of implementation should not be interpreted as reflecting any change of intention or construed as opening the way for future reconsideration. The JCNDE’s decision to proceed with implementation of Pass/Fail reporting was unanimously reaffirmed, and communities of interest are advised that these Commissioners will not revisit the date certain of January 1, 2012.

On behalf of the entire Commission I want to thank all parties who expressed concern or support and in any way communicated with the JCNDE relative to this important issue. The JCNDE will move forward with the other business it must necessarily conduct.
Click to expand...
 
I have searched this topic, and found some beneficial things to having the exam scored. I have not learned much on P/F however..
Can I get a rundown of pros and cons to each system, a little support would be nice if possible
 
chund said:
I have searched this topic, and found some beneficial things to having the exam scored. I have not learned much on P/F however..
Can I get a rundown of pros and cons to each system, a little support would be nice if possible
Click to expand...

There are no cons to getting a score; if you don't want to specialize you still need a 75 regardless of whether it gives you your score or just gives you a pass; however if you want to specialize having it graded will give you a chance to differentiate yourself with a high score (regardless of whether it is a good indicator for how well you will do in residency or not, I'm not here to argue that). I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to get a score, it is irrelevant if you don't want to specialize and it is very important if you do want to specialize.
 
I read a post that said you didn't need a 75/100. But you needed to have 75% of the national average.. Say average is 82, you would need a 62 or whatever it works out to be.

IS THIS TRUE???
 
chund said:
I read a post that said you didn't need a 75/100. But you needed to have 75% of the national average.. Say average is 82, you would need a 62 or whatever it works out to be.

IS THIS TRUE???
Click to expand...
yes, it is 75% of the national average
 
I too received one of those school wide emails a little while ago informing me of the P/F push back until 2012. For those who haven't, looks like the Joint Commission has finally gone public on this issue in their latest e-newsletter:

"The Joint Commission remains committed to the
implementation of pass/fail scoring for Part I and Part II as
well as for the Dental Hygiene examination. However, the
Joint Commission approved of a delay in the transition
from a reporting of numerical scores to a pass/fail
reporting system from January 1, 2010 to January 1, 2012.
The Joint Commission specified that individuals taking
the examination before January 1, 2012 will retain their
numerical scores."

http://www.ada.org/prof/ed/testing/jcnde_enewsletter_spring_09.pdf
 
Hey y'all,

Has anyone heard anything recently about the decision to push the P/F boards to 2012?

I am confused because my school just gave a presentation in a powerpoint that P/F would start January 2010.

Thanks...
 
snooper92 said:
Hey y'all,

Has anyone heard anything recently about the decision to push the P/F boards to 2012?

I am confused because my school just gave a presentation in a powerpoint that P/F would start January 2010.

Thanks...
Click to expand...

What school is that? My guess is pitt? And I dont think so, pretty sure it is 2012
 
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So if boards go pass/fail and you go to a pass/fail school, do you think there will be a separate "specialty" test if you want to specialize?
 
ToldYouSo said:
So if boards go pass/fail and you go to a pass/fail school, do you think there will be a separate "specialty" test if you want to specialize?
Click to expand...

at the interview of the school that i'm attending this coming semester, they said that they havn't decided exactly on how to handle that, my interview was back in October btw, when people were still thinking NBDE was gona be p/f in 2010. I think if that was still the case now, it would shift alot of attention to our LOR and interview. But since it's not gona be implemented til 2012 we still get a NBDE score and no specialty test is needed at this time.
 
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