NBOME Propaganda

[NontradCA]

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Has anyone taken a look at the NBOME’s twitter lately? They’re suggesting that their exam alone is ok for DO students, saying things like “Comlex only, perfect match”. Wow. Just absurd. Shameless money grubbing pieces of ****.

 

[ortnakas]

Driving me nuts too— and I matched in the AOA Match. Especially because we have to take the COMLEX, we’re gonna pay for it and take it regardless, what’s even the point of advertising against the USMLE?

 

[deleted610572]

Yes I saw them take a quote out of context from a student that matches UMASS this year.

 

[DocWinter]

I only took COMLEX and did match ACGME, but never would I say it was no big deal to skip USMLE. On the contrary, it caused me a great deal of concern for match day and would not recommend.

 

[Wjldenver]

The AOA and COCA are dumb and dumber. This is just one other data point in a sea of data points.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Unlike the USMLE, most PDs in ACGME never developed a visceral feel for whats a good score.

I know 250 is a good score. Can’t tell you what 700 means for me.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Driving me nuts too— and I matched in the AOA Match. Especially because we have to take the COMLEX, we’re gonna pay for it and take it regardless, what’s even the point of advertising against the USMLE?

Less students take USMLE then less danger we transition into all schools taking USMLE only

 

[zero0]

Less students take USMLE then less danger we transition into all schools taking USMLE only

Pretty much this. They may be malignant and predatory, but at least our accrediting bodies are transparent af

 

[meliora27]

Rather than turn this thread into an echo chamber with a lot of "I agree" and "I agree more" posts, why not at reply to the NBOME's tweet, and try to engage in a dialogue with them?

There has been 1 reply to the NBOME tweet in questions in 3 days, and 8 posts in this thread in approx 4 hours. Take it to Twitter! @nbome

 

[NontradCA]

Rather than turn this thread into an echo chamber with a lot of "I agree" and "I agree more" posts, why not at reply to the NBOME's tweet, and try to engage in a dialogue with them?

There has been 1 reply to the NBOME tweet in questions in 3 days, and 8 posts in this thread in approx 4 hours. Take it to Twitter! @nbome

Engage in dialogue? Like they’re going to admit their exam is inferior to the USMLE and that DO students have more options if they take it?

No, this is the only place where medical students and physicians can publicly display their grievances. Medicine hierarchy is malignant, and while most DO students understand the reasons for their unequal opportunity in the match, few would call their administration out. By the time you graduate, what’s the point?

The only echo chamber is the one inside DO schools consisting of the administration and the loud minority of students who drink the koolaid. Hint: Those students on Twitter all koolaid drinkers.

 

[meliora27]

Engage in dialogue? Like they’re going to admit their exam is inferior to the USMLE and that DO students have more options if they take it?

My point was that posting in this thread is an echo chamber, at least tweeting to the NBOME, you have a chance to share your view point. Don't underestimate the power of Twitter and social media. If enough voices start tweeting, and retweeting a message, while they may not make changes, the NBOME will hear (and see) the voices of opposition.

 

[NontradCA]

My point was that posting in this thread is an echo chamber, at least tweeting to the NBOME, you have a chance to share your view point. Don't underestimate the power of Twitter and social media. If enough voices start tweeting, and retweeting a message, while they may not make changes, the NBOME will hear (and see) the voices of opposition.

Why don’t you lead the charge, doc. You won’t.

 

[bigindian4891]

My point was that posting in this thread is an echo chamber, at least tweeting to the NBOME, you have a chance to share your view point. Don't underestimate the power of Twitter and social media. If enough voices start tweeting, and retweeting a message, while they may not make changes, the NBOME will hear (and see) the voices of opposition.

Go for it, comrade. But remember, the internet is forever.

 

[ThreeCheers]

Rather than turn this thread into an echo chamber with a lot of "I agree" and "I agree more" posts, why not at reply to the NBOME's tweet, and try to engage in a dialogue with them?

There has been 1 reply to the NBOME tweet in questions in 3 days, and 8 posts in this thread in approx 4 hours. Take it to Twitter! @nbome

Several people dragged the NBOME on its facebook page when they posted this nonsense right after the AOA match. They defended themselves with vague and non-sequitur responses.

 

[Goro]

Has anyone taken a look at the NBOME’s twitter lately? They’re suggesting that their exam alone is ok for DO students, saying things like “Comlex only, perfect match”. Wow. Just absurd. Shameless money grubbing pieces of ****.

Never attribute to malice what you can explain by stupidity.

 

[Goro]

Engage in dialogue? Like they’re going to admit their exam is inferior to the USMLE and that DO students have more options if they take it?

No, this is the only place where medical students and physicians can publicly display their grievances. Medicine hierarchy is malignant, and while most DO students understand the reasons for their unequal opportunity in the match, few would call their administration out. By the time you graduate, what’s the point?

The only echo chamber is the one inside DO schools consisting of the administration and the loud minority of students who drink the koolaid. Hint: Those students on Twitter all koolaid drinkers.

You have a lot of good points, but for God's sake and your own, work on the anger issues.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Why don’t you lead the charge, doc. You won’t.

Go for it, comrade. But remember, the internet is forever.

Several people dragged the NBOME on its facebook page when they posted this nonsense right after the AOA match. They defended themselves with vague and non-sequitur responses.

She actually has done this. I know where she is coming from, better to do something than nothing. In the end, its still a futile struggle. You would have to instead go above COCA's heads in order to make them flinch even a little. Of course even worse, the attendings don't give enough of s*** once they graduate to help future students. Because "its not their problem anymore..."

 

[deleted610572]

You have a lot of good points, but for God's sake and your own, work on the anger issues.

I think he has great points as well. As a student we hold no power. The fear of causing waves can lead to destroying your future. That makes calling out NBOME online with a name attached crazy. My school would scream professionalism violations in a heartbeat. Not worth it. Then once the student graduates they move on to bigger and better things... exactly what was posted earlier, “what’s the point?”

 

[jw3600]

Never attribute to malice what you can explain by stupidity.

Dude you work for the same associated propoganda machine. It’s 100% malice. The NBOME’s existence purely stems from greed.

 

[Eagles6389]

Anyone know where/how they are getting these quotes from students who just matched? Is there some kind of survey that the NBOME sends out?

I wonder how many times the NBOME got answers like “actually, COMLEX only put me at a disadvantage, and I definitely should have taken USMLE” in which they just simply ignore it until they get the response they’re looking for.

And while most of the blame goes on the NBOME for this propaganda, I’m pretty disappointed in the students who give these quotes saying “I only took COMLEX and had no issues matching into my #1 residency choice.” Even if they matched FM, Peds, etc no problem with only COMLEX, were they just completely oblivious to the rest of their classmates aiming for any semi-competitive specialty where you really need USMLE? It’s frustrating to see fourth year students who should know a lot better than to give NBOME statements like COMLEX only is a great idea and completely fine.

 

[NontradCA]

Anyone know where/how they are getting these quotes from students who just matched? Is there some kind of survey that the NBOME sends out?

I wonder how many times the NBOME got answers like “actually, COMLEX only put me at a disadvantage, and I definitely should have taken USMLE” in which they just simply ignore it until they get the response they’re looking for.

And while most of the blame goes on the NBOME for this propaganda, I’m pretty disappointed in the students who give these quotes saying “I only took COMLEX and had no issues matching into my #1 residency choice.” Even if they matched FM, Peds, etc no problem with only COMLEX, were they just completely oblivious to the rest of their classmates aiming for any semi-competitive specialty where you really need USMLE? It’s frustrating to see fourth year students who should know a lot better than to give NBOME statements like COMLEX only is a great idea and completely fine.

Cherry picked students...see my post above.

 

[NontradCA]

You have a lot of good points, but for God's sake and your own, work on the anger issues.

Do you have anything to contribute? Or just condescension? Your attitude is exactly what I’m talking about. And you’re not even a physician. I’m not gonna get into it with you because I don’t want to derail the thread.

 

[deleted610572]

Anyone know where/how they are getting these quotes from students who just matched? Is there some kind of survey that the NBOME sends out?

I wonder how many times the NBOME got answers like “actually, COMLEX only put me at a disadvantage, and I definitely should have taken USMLE” in which they just simply ignore it until they get the response they’re looking for.

And while most of the blame goes on the NBOME for this propaganda, I’m pretty disappointed in the students who give these quotes saying “I only took COMLEX and had no issues matching into my #1 residency choice.” Even if they matched FM, Peds, etc no problem with only COMLEX, were they just completely oblivious to the rest of their classmates aiming for any semi-competitive specialty where you really need USMLE? It’s frustrating to see fourth year students who should know a lot better than to give NBOME statements like COMLEX only is a great idea and completely fine.

Like every good tabloid it was a misquote. The one I read talked about studying hard for the comlex. There was definitely more to the quote and the question was misleading

 

[Rekt]

Less students take USMLE then less danger we transition into all schools taking USMLE only

Won't ever happen. If all these new schools switched to a 100% requirement of USMLE there would be massive failure rates.

 

[ortnakas]

And while most of the blame goes on the NBOME for this propaganda, I’m pretty disappointed in the students who give these quotes saying “I only took COMLEX and had no issues matching into my #1 residency choice.” Even if they matched FM, Peds, etc no problem with only COMLEX, were they just completely oblivious to the rest of their classmates aiming for any semi-competitive specialty where you really need USMLE? It’s frustrating to see fourth year students who should know a lot better than to give NBOME statements like COMLEX only is a great idea and completely fine.

Like every good tabloid it was a misquote. The one I read talked about studying hard for the comlex. There was definitely more to the quote and the question was misleading

Most medical students aren’t as informed about AOA/NBOME/ACGME issues as the SDN population is— most of my friends just want to graduate and move on, and I get that. That being the case, cut your colleagues a little slack. I agree with @DO2015CA; the survey was pretty weirdly worded, along the lines of “Did you only take COMLEX and are you happy you matched? Tell us your story!” Everyone who’s happy with their match wants to talk about it, so of course they got replies. I doubt the majority of respondents realized they were implicitly agreeing to spread misinformation or be NBOME shills.

 

[NontradCA]

Most medical students aren’t as informed about AOA/NBOME/ACGME issues as the SDN population is— most of my friends just want to graduate and move on, and I get that. That being the case, cut your colleagues a little slack. I agree with @DO2015CA; the survey was pretty weirdly worded, along the lines of “Did you only take COMLEX and are you happy you matched? Tell us your story!” Everyone who’s happy with their match wants to talk about it, so of course they got replies. I doubt the majority of respondents realized they were implicitly agreeing to spread misinformation or be NBOME shills.

I disagree. I doubt the NBOME would not inform people what they were going to be quoting before the tweet. The students know NBOME members personally...

 

[NurWollen]

Engage in dialogue? Like they’re going to admit their exam is inferior to the USMLE and that DO students have more options if they take it?

No, this is the only place where medical students and physicians can publicly display their grievances. Medicine hierarchy is malignant, and while most DO students understand the reasons for their unequal opportunity in the match, few would call their administration out. By the time you graduate, what’s the point?

The only echo chamber is the one inside DO schools consisting of the administration and the loud minority of students who drink the koolaid. Hint: Those students on Twitter all koolaid drinkers.

I would consider calling them out on Twitter... after I get resolution 42 approved. If I even have to do that. Idk anymore.

Sent from my SM-G930V using SDN mobile

 

[zero0]

Won't ever happen. If all these new schools switched to a 100% requirement of USMLE there would be massive failure rates.

Also true. RVU makes their kids take USMLE and last I checked their average was like 220. Highly discouraging. After studying for the USMLE for months now, I've noticed I'm severely lacking in terms of biochemistry and research methods background thanks to my school, and I'd wager most other schools are the same. Whereas MD schools seemingly focus on this more, we focus on musculoskeletal stuff, which is admittedly low yield for USMLE.

 

[Lawpy]

Won't ever happen. If all these new schools switched to a 100% requirement of USMLE there would be massive failure rates.

😵

If this is true, then @Stagg737 is accurate to say that LCME takeover of DO schools and merging the DO degree into MD degree is unlikely to happen in the future. The failure and attrition rates arising from this merger would be disastrous. Not to mention, most DO schools would be shut down and even established DO schools would have a hard time meeting LCME requirements.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

😵

If this is true, then @Stagg737 is accurate to say that LCME takeover of DO schools and merging the DO degree into MD degree is unlikely to happen in the future. The failure and attrition rates arising from this merger would be disastrous. Not to mention, most DO schools would be shut down and even established DO schools would have a hard time meeting LCME requirements.

Its not, just look at RVU, thats what would happen if all students had to take USMLE. They would adjust, and our mean would prob be below average overall, but within a SD of the USMD mean.

 

[Lawpy]

Its not, just look at RVU, thats what would happen if all students had to take USMLE. They would adjust, and our mean would prob be below average overall, but within a SD of the USMD mean.

But can branch campuses and new schools from DO expansion also adjust? These schools are admitting applicants with below average applications. If all DO schools are following the competition creep and admitting applicants with above average applications, I could see them doing well on USMLE and matching well.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

But can branch campuses and new schools from DO expansion also adjust? These schools are admitting applicants with below average applications. If all DO schools are following the competition creep and admitting applicants with above average applications, I could see them doing well on USMLE and matching well.

You are assuming all those students make it to the Boards. I personally do not believe the bottom 10% is already, if not bottom 20% at the new branch campuses etc.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Also true. RVU makes their kids take USMLE and last I checked their average was like 220. Highly discouraging. After studying for the USMLE for months now, I've noticed I'm severely lacking in terms of biochemistry and research methods background thanks to my school, and I'd wager most other schools are the same. Whereas MD schools seemingly focus on this more, we focus on musculoskeletal stuff, which is admittedly low yield for USMLE.

Medical schools do a trash job of biostats and epi in general. However, even more horrendously so in DO schools (we had 2 hour lecture on this, that it!, but at least we had a couple classes on research evaluation). I had done a lot of epi courses in the past and am grateful I did. Probably the only section on Uworld I'm doing extremely well in.

 

[DrMcCoyDO]

We had an alumnus on our class page try to encourage people to share their perfect match COMLEX only stories. One of the biggest OMM fans in our class ripped his request a new one and called out NBOME for trying to screw over students. It was glorious.

 

[Goro]

😵

If this is true, then @Stagg737 is accurate to say that LCME takeover of DO schools and merging the DO degree into MD degree is unlikely to happen in the future. The failure and attrition rates arising from this merger would be disastrous. Not to mention, most DO schools would be shut down and even established DO schools would have a hard time meeting LCME requirements.

Damn straight it's not going to happen. I really wish those of you who engage in these frivolous wishes would stop these wet dreams of an LCME takeover. It's simply not going to happen.

IF you really and sincerely want to help your profession, join the AOA, get inside the decision making apparatus, and change the rules that COCA uses.

 

[QueenJames]

One of our students thought that MD students will have to take the COMLEX to be eligible for previous AOA spots that have now switched over.

I had to excuse myself from our live meeting before laughing so hard and pissing my scrubs.

There are some of us who just don't know wtf is going on.

 

[Neopolymath]

Anyone know where/how they are getting these quotes from students who just matched? Is there some kind of survey that the NBOME sends out?

I wonder how many times the NBOME got answers like “actually, COMLEX only put me at a disadvantage, and I definitely should have taken USMLE” in which they just simply ignore it until they get the response they’re looking for.

And while most of the blame goes on the NBOME for this propaganda, I’m pretty disappointed in the students who give these quotes saying “I only took COMLEX and had no issues matching into my #1 residency choice.” Even if they matched FM, Peds, etc no problem with only COMLEX, were they just completely oblivious to the rest of their classmates aiming for any semi-competitive specialty where you really need USMLE? It’s frustrating to see fourth year students who should know a lot better than to give NBOME statements like COMLEX only is a great idea and completely fine.

You know all those students in your class on the student council and stuff like that..... they are the exact type of person to do this. Lemmings and brown-nosers.

 

[IslandStyle808]

One of our students thought that MD students will have to take the COMLEX to be eligible for previous AOA spots that have now switched over.

I had to excuse myself from our live meeting before laughing so hard and pissing my scrubs.

There are some of us who just don't know wtf is going on.

I wouldn't be surprised if the AOA tried to pull this kind of stunt to get MD students to take the COMLEX giving them more $$$. I would be laughing my @ss off. Doubt its going to happen though.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Damn straight it's not going to happen. I really wish those of you who engage in these frivolous wishes would stop these wet dreams of an LCME takeover. It's simply not going to happen.

IF you really and sincerely want to help your profession, join the AOA, get inside the decision making apparatus, and change the rules that COCA uses.

Joining and advancing in the AOA costs both money (which I don't really want to support them anymore) and brown-noising (as they generally represent the worst part of lemming DO think). The barrier to entry is simply too high for most people who would make a difference, especially after they endured and put up with it through DO school.

COCA is all about yes-men from what I can see, and the moment you come between them and making more money, your in trouble. It would take individuals who were already financially set and willing to push back. I just don't see it happening.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I wouldn't be surprised if the AOA tried to pull this kind of stunt to get MD students to take the COMLEX giving them more $$$. I would be laughing my @ss off. Doubt its going to happen though.

AOA couldn't as they no longer accredit residencies, heck, they couldn't even get the OMT requirement in. But individual residency directors could, just like ACGME directors make us take USMLE even though its not actually required by ACGME. I don't see that happening at most places, but if our match rate drops perhaps there could be some of that protectionist backlash from our guys. In a weird way that would sort of endear places to me, I mean taking care of our own has to be part of the DO way right?

 

[Goro]

Joining and advancing in the AOA costs both money (which I don't really want to support them anymore) and brown-noising (as they generally represent the worst part of lemming DO think). The barrier to entry is simply too high for most people who would make a difference, especially after they endured and put up with it through DO school.

COCA is all about yes-men from what I can see, and the moment you come between them and making more money, your in trouble. It would take individuals who were already financially set and willing to push back. I just don't see it happening.

So trying save your profession from itself is too much work? OK, the new McTouro will be opening that way->
Repeat after me: "More DOs good!"

 

[uhmocksuhsillen]

Also true. RVU makes their kids take USMLE and last I checked their average was like 220. Highly discouraging. After studying for the USMLE for months now, I've noticed I'm severely lacking in terms of biochemistry and research methods background thanks to my school, and I'd wager most other schools are the same. Whereas MD schools seemingly focus on this more, we focus on musculoskeletal stuff, which is admittedly low yield for USMLE.

This isn't due to your school, it's due to you. I go to DO school. I had no science background outside of the pre-reqs. My biochem was ****, as was my stats. But I studied them and got a good step 1 score. People need to take accountability a little more around here.

 

[Giovanotto]

Unlike the USMLE, most PDs in ACGME never developed a visceral feel for whats a good score.

I know 250 is a good score. Can’t tell you what 700 means for me.

Ever heard of percentiles? PDs understand percentiles, yes?

 

[IslandStyle808]

AOA couldn't as they no longer accredit residencies, heck, they couldn't even get the OMT requirement in. But individual residency directors could, just like ACGME directors make us take USMLE even though its not actually required by ACGME. I don't see that happening at most places, but if our match rate drops perhaps there could be some of that protectionist backlash from our guys. In a weird way that would sort of endear places to me, I mean taking care of our own has to be part of the DO way right?

Yes, your right. It would fall into the residency director's hands. I could see it being a backlash if DOs are treated terribly, however, this would mean the program director has to be a DO for it to work (since there are no ACGME residencies at this point).

 

[IslandStyle808]

Ever heard of percentiles? PDs understand percentiles, yes?

I don't think @DrfluffyMD is phrasing it correctly. The PDs don't care to understand the score first off. The second is that these are two different groups taking two different exams. So the percentiles don't mean anything since MD students don't take the COMLEX and so we don't know how they would fair on that exam (I think even without OMM they would blow it out of the water). This is why its easier if DO students take the USMLE, so we know how a DO applicant measures up to the MD applicant.

 

[Stagg737]

I don't care for the AOA or COCA, but do people in this thread really think that the NBME and LCME aren't doing exactly the same thing? The USMLE wasn't a thing until the 90's and COMLEX came into existence a few years later to ensure DO schools were keeping up with standards of MDs. It's not like it's just some big money grab from the AOA alone, it's the exact same for the NBME. If you think it's not, just compare the price of Step exams to COMLEX exams. It's a money grab all around.

Unlike the USMLE, most PDs in ACGME never developed a visceral feel for whats a good score.

I know 250 is a good score. Can’t tell you what 700 means for me.

I never understood this. It's not hard to understand the COMLEX scale, and it's actually easier to understand than USMLE since COMLEX adjusts it's scores so that 500 is the mean on a regular basis while USMLE just keeps going up. It's not hard to interpret and I think PDs who don't understand the COMLEX scale do so willfully.

😵

If this is true, then @Stagg737 is accurate to say that LCME takeover of DO schools and merging the DO degree into MD degree is unlikely to happen in the future. The failure and attrition rates arising from this merger would be disastrous. Not to mention, most DO schools would be shut down and even established DO schools would have a hard time meeting LCME requirements.

I don't think it would be an issue at all. At my school over 80% of our class takes both exams and our class average is regularly in the mid-220's, which is admittedly below the national mean, but not by much. I also know more than a couple MD schools off the top of my head whose average was lower than my DO school's, so if DO schools are able to hit means in the 220's I really don't see a problem with that so long as their pass rates are adequate (which I think most schools would meet other than a select few which I don't think should exist at all, but I can say the same about a few MD schools as well).

Also, the biggest issue in terms of DO schools meeting LCME requirements would be with research opportunities/funding for students and faculty (which would be a significant problem at some schools) as well as having full-time faculty in enough fields (easily fixed at most places). A small number of schools would have facility issues, and some may have issues with clinical rotations, though this is pretty exaggerated by SDN and LCME standards for clinical education are actually significantly lower than people on SDN seem to think (for example, MD students are only required to complete ONE rotation with residents).

Damn straight it's not going to happen. I really wish those of you who engage in these frivolous wishes would stop these wet dreams of an LCME takeover. It's simply not going to happen.

IF you really and sincerely want to help your profession, join the AOA, get inside the decision making apparatus, and change the rules that COCA uses.

Why are you so adamant that it won't? Once 2020 hits, there are no more AOA residencies, which means the ACGME could require all applicants to take take the USMLE exams and stop accepting COMLEX as an acceptable credential. They already strong-armed the AOA into the merger by threatening to require all those entering an ACGME fellowship to complete an ACGME residency (which will be the case anyway come 2020), so why not do it with USMLE. After all, if you require all 6,000 people in a given graduating DO class to take Step 1, 2, and 2 cs, that's an additional $15 million+ /year.

While I wouldn't mind it happening, it's so much of a money grab that the AOA will do literally anything they can to prevent that from happening, but it's profitable enough that I can also see ACGME/NBME pushing to amalgamate everything (after all, the merger was not a friendly union, it was a hostile take-over). Who knows what will actually happen, but if anyone thinks that it's not about money from either side (whether it's NBME or NBOME), they're being naive and kidding themselves.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

So trying save your profession from itself is too much work? OK, the new McTouro will be opening that way->

I am a well trained DO. If the profession fails, it was always going to. Degrees/governing bodies always do what they are supposed to, just like students always match where they are supposed to. The opening of more schools/slots won't change that. Everything happens how it happens. #AmIDoingItRiteCOCA?

 

[kenjixshadow]

I don't care for the AOA or COCA, but do people in this thread really think that the NBME and LCME aren't doing exactly the same thing? The USMLE wasn't a thing until the 90's and COMLEX came into existence a few years later to ensure DO schools were keeping up with standards of MDs. It's not like it's just some big money grab from the AOA alone, it's the exact same for the NBME. If you think it's not, just compare the price of Step exams to COMLEX exams. It's a money grab all around.

While I agree that both exams are money grabbing, would you want to get treated from a doctor who fail the USMLE multiple times? Probably not and the national exams are what keeping these "almost doctors" from killing ppl on daily basis.

I never understood this. It's not hard to understand the COMLEX scale, and it's actually easier to understand than USMLE since COMLEX adjusts it's scores so that 500 is the mean on a regular basis while USMLE just keeps going up. It's not hard to interpret and I think PDs who don't understand the COMLEX scale do so willfully.

This post is completely wrong. COMLEX average went up to mid 550 while USMLE average went down to 228 from last year report.

I don't think it would be an issue at all. At my school over 80% of our class takes both exams and our class average is regularly in the mid-220's, which is admittedly below the national mean, but not by much.

Your class is very strong. However, mine isn't. Only 40% students took USMLE Step 1 and less than 10 students scored more than 230 on the real thing and the class average is probably in the low 210. The ones who took USMLE are generally stronger students. If the USMLE were required, maybe half of my class wouldn't even pass it or would do horribly on it.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I don't care for the AOA or COCA, but do people in this thread really think that the NBME and LCME aren't doing exactly the same thing? The USMLE wasn't a thing until the 90's and COMLEX came into existence a few years later to ensure DO schools were keeping up with standards of MDs. It's not like it's just some big money grab from the AOA alone, it's the exact same for the NBME. If you think it's not, just compare the price of Step exams to COMLEX exams. It's a money grab all around.

Do you even know what exam was before this? It was called the FLEX and this was administered by each state. You would have to pass the specific exam of that state to practice in that state. If you think the USMLE was a money grab, imagine going through this horrendous nightmare to practice in each state...

United States Medical Licensing Examination | About

Federation Licensing Examination (FLEX)

 

[Stagg737]

While I agree that both exams are money grabbing, would you want to get treated from a doctor who fail the USMLE multiple times? Probably not and the national exams are what keeping these "almost doctors" from killing ppl on daily basis.

Do you even know what exam was before this? It was called the FLEX and this was administered by each state. You would have to pass the specific exam of that state to practice in that state. If you think the USMLE was a money grab, imaging going through this horrendous nightmare to practice in each state...

Of course I think exams to test basic competency are necessary. However, there's no reason at all that these exams need to cost $700+ per pop or $1,200+ for the physical exams. The cost is why it's a money grab, not the exam itself.

This post is completely wrong. COMLEX average went up to mid 550 while USMLE average went down to 228 from last year report.

Yes, the average rises, but the mean is readjusted as needed every 2-3 years to bring the mean back down to near 500. The year before I took it, the mean Level 1 was in the 540's. My year it was ~515 because the scores were readjusted. So while the COMLEX scores are regularly adjusted to keep the mean near 500, USMLE just keeps rising. For example, in the early 2000's, the mean Step 1 score was in the low 210's and passing was in the 180's. Now the mean is in the upper 220's and passing is 192. Their scoring format has also changed multiple times. It originally used percentiles, then they changed to a 2 digit and 3 digit score, now they only use a 3 digit score. It's just inconsistent.