NBOME SUCKS they need to cancel COMLEX PE like NBME did for CS

[SurgDoc95]

But how many PDs, if any, will rank people with no PE score? This only works if PDs disregard it this season.

This. I'm torn between pushing PE to March and keeping my August date. I in no way want to travel to philly in a couple months, but if theres no guarantee that not having a score wont affect us I cant justify moving it when I have a fairly decent date.

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[You shall know the Truth]

Do we have to Quarentine before /after we go to the test?

 

[drplzz]

email representatives if youre upset (As we all should be). contact mayors. contact newspapers.

Here are the representatives in Illinois Illinois’s 9th Congressional District - IL-09 Representatives & District Map - GovTrack.us

Here are the representatives in PA Pennsylvania’s 4th Congressional District - PA-04 Representatives & District Map - GovTrack.us

 

[deleted999322]

Had a classmate text me an interesting idea. The MD students won't have a CS score to put in ERAS or be asked about during interviews. Their risk of reporting a failing score is 0%. The DO students still have to take PE so their risk of having to report a failing score is > 0%. Thus, it may be best to schedule the PE for after rank list come out if you are a DO student, especially if applying to a competitive specialty.

This was the same thought I had, but a few counterpoints to this:

1) If you think that you can pass PE regardless, just take it and have a "Pass" on your transcript. At worst it will be neutral.
2) More importantly, if you DO take it after rank order lists and fail, it might affect your graduation (if your COM requires it) if you can't retake in time.

Assuming PE doesn't get cancelled, I think it would be best to merge my ideas with your friend's: I.e. prep well for it, take it in October/November 2020 (if you can get a date then) after your applications are submitted to programs, and retake if necessary before graduation.

 

[Lawpy]

PE is a stupid evil scam that needs to be eliminated for good!

 

[Dr. Rafiki]

Here is an email I just sent to all the Borough Council Members, the Mayor and the General Counsel for the Pennsylvania site:

Hello,

I am one of over 6,000 medical students who will be descending into your town to take a physical exam portion of our medical licensing test over the next few months. As I hope you're aware, there are two paths to becoming a physician in this country: Doctor of Medicine (MD) and Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine (DO). We both have governing bodies who grant licensure to practice in each state: NBME (MD) and NBOME (DO).

The NBME (MD) has already canceled this physical exam portion of licensure for the next 12-18 months as there was no way to justify the risk to public safety by forcing thousands of medical students to fly from all over to take the exam and physically touch and diagnose standardized patients in light of the COVID-19 crisis. The NBOME (DO) is still forcing the issue and announced today that they have no plans of cancelling the exam. This will put the health and safety of your constituents at great risk and for no reason.

I urge you to STOP THE NBOME from recklessly charging forward with this goal. If the MD's can go on successfully licensing their students without the physical exam then so can the DO's.

Thank you,
- your name here

Contact info:
Mayor:

[email protected]

Borough Manager:

[email protected]

Borough Attorney: [email protected]
Council Members:

[email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE reach out to all these people as well. The more voices we have, the more powerful they will be.

 

[Lawpy]

NBOME sucks and is run by a bunch of fools that want your money. Remember this come attending status.

This is key. Otherwise, it'll be like those geniuses behind the #EndStep2CS movement who forgot about it when they went to residency and only ended up making the test a lot worse by increasing the fail rate.

 

[Dr. Rafiki]

Here is an email I just sent to all the Borough Council Members, the Mayor and the General Counsel for the Pennsylvania site:

Hello,

I am one of over 6,000 medical students who will be descending into your town to take a physical exam portion of our medical licensing test over the next few months. As I hope you're aware, there are two paths to becoming a physician in this country: Doctor of Medicine (MD) and Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine (DO). We both have governing bodies who grant licensure to practice in each state: NBME (MD) and NBOME (DO).

The NBME (MD) has already canceled this physical exam portion of licensure for the next 12-18 months as there was no way to justify the risk to public safety by forcing thousands of medical students to fly from all over to take the exam and physically touch and diagnose standardized patients in light of the COVID-19 crisis. The NBOME (DO) is still forcing the issue and announced today that they have no plans of cancelling the exam. This will put the health and safety of your constituents at great risk and for no reason.

I urge you to STOP THE NBOME from recklessly charging forward with this goal. If the MD's can go on successfully licensing their students without the physical exam then so can the DO's.

Thank you,
- your name here

Contact info:
Mayor:

[email protected]

Borough Manager:

[email protected]

Borough Attorney: [email protected]
Council Members:

[email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE reach out to all these people as well. The more voices we have, the more powerful they will be.

Oh yeah I also filled out an online form to the same effect for the Governor: Contact the Governor's Office but there is a character limit so you have to get creative on how to get the point across.

 

[deleted1003403]

Podiatry students take their clinical board exam aug-nov in philly too in the same building as DO students. Please add us to your emails to government officials

 

[Noisewater-TDX]

Podiatry students take their clinical board exam aug-nov in philly too in the same building as DO students. Please add us to your emails to government officials

You guys use the same center? I didnt know they were certified to tortured multiple degrees.

 

[deleted1003403]

You guys use the same center? I didnt know they were certified to tortured multiple degrees.

Conshohocken, Pennsylvania (just outside Philadelphia) at 101 W. Elm Street, Suite 150. correct? That is where podiatry students take their clinical exam. Which is another 600 or so students from 9 major cities (nyc, miami, oakland, chicago, etc) coming to the same building. How is this even remotely safe?

 

[Noisewater-TDX]

Conshohocken, Pennsylvania (just outside Philadelphia) at 101 W. Elm Street, Suite 150. correct? That is where podiatry students take their clinical exam. Which is another 600 or so students from 9 major cities (nyc, miami, oakland, chicago, etc) coming to the same building. How is this even remotely safe?

Yep... thats it.

It's not safe. But it's a great way to not refund millions of dollars in testing fees.

 

[ciestar]

Damn, i drove through Conshohocken today and i was thinking of you guys. Apparently the NBOME doesn’t care.

 

[Prehealth1011]

If schools don't require PE for graduation, can we just take STEP 2 + STEP 3 and avoid COM$HIT? I'm sure i'm missing a lot of steps. Heard some people mention it on reddit.

 

[frenchyn]

The actual rationale they mentioned are as follows:

1. NBME deals with 35k students, we deal with 6k. Less logistical nightmare.
2. We have a soft start date of july 1. That may change (they're setting it up to possibly delay it more)
3. "PDs know what the PE is, and they look forward to those results since it shows you're a TRUE OSTEOPATHIC student"
4. Many governors of states are loosening restrictions!!! Therefore, against scientific evidence, it's not that big of a deal!
5. If you don't want to take it when you're scheduled to because you're not comfortable, feel free to reschedule to march 2021
6. Many, Many other Bs reasons
7. Oh, Al$o, Money

I am a MD student and this smells bull**** to me already lol...

 

[frenchyn]

Had a classmate text me an interesting idea. The MD students won't have a CS score to put in ERAS or be asked about during interviews. Their risk of reporting a failing score is 0%. The DO students still have to take PE so their risk of having to report a failing score is > 0%. Thus, it may be best to schedule the PE for after rank list come out if you are a DO student, especially if applying to a competitive specialty.

Where did you classmate hear this lol? I heard nothing so far...

 

[PorkChopsOG]

COCA
Element 6.12: COMLEX-USA All students must successfully pass COMLEX-USA Level 1, Level 2 CE, and Level 2 PE prior to graduation from an osteopathic medical school. The COM must publish to the public the COMLEX -USA Level 1, Level 2 CE, Level 2 PE, and Level 3 first time pass rate for all students in each class at the COM.
https://osteopathic.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/com-continuing-accreditation-standards.pdf

Theeeeere it is. I was wondering why they're pushing so hard for us to take this test. Wow very sneaky making the PE graduation requirement.

 

[TwistedTea]

Its bad enough making you all still take it, but completely ludacris of them having it as a graduation requirement when they dont even have enough test dates.

 

[Alkaidius]

Best part is them giving people the option to take it next year if they don’t feel safe....how considerate.

 

[Prehealth1011]

Best part is them giving people the option to take it next year if they don’t feel safe....how considerate.

Yeah I don’t know how to respond to that.
Oh thank you. I’ll just not graduate and do my residency some other time.

 

[Noisewater-TDX]

Best part is them giving people the option to take it next year if they don’t feel safe....how considerate.

Every time he's said that - and i think it's atleast 5 times now - the primate in me wanted to throw poop at him.

Theeeeere it is. I was wondering why they're pushing so hard for us to take this test. Wow very sneaky making the PE graduation requirement.

Its bad enough making you all still take it, but completely ludacris of them having it as a graduation requirement when they dont even have enough test dates.

From what our dean is saying COCA is pretty lenient about changing policies due to COVID. I think this is just Gimple trying not to refund crap loads of cash that the NBOME probably has already spent in those fancy HVAC systems and safety measures he keeps referencing.

 

[JointsMan]

Where did you classmate hear this lol? I heard nothing so far...

Which part are you wondering? It's not about some statement put out by any group, it's just thinking through the reality of the MD vs DO situation in this PE/CS deal.

 

[dabo52]

Every time he's said that - and i think it's atleast 5 times now - the primate in me wanted to throw poop at him.




From what our dean is saying COCA is pretty lenient about changing policies due to COVID. I think this is just Gimple trying not to refund crap loads of cash that the NBOME probably has already spent in those fancy HVAC systems and safety measures he keeps referencing.

We can't let Gimpel win by administering the PE. He makes 600k a year by ripping us off. Surely, he could live on a 100-200k salary for 1 year if he could cancel the PE for a year. We got to keep contacting city/government officials and we can't let Gimpel get away with this atrocity. Gimpel is a greedy/selfish man who only thinks about his wallet and not about the safety of students and communities. I wish Gimpel could realize that DO's are getting screwed for residency applications by having the PE. We compete against MD's for residency spots and Gimpel needs to level the playing field by cancelling the PE for the year.

 

[frenchyn]

Which part are you wondering? It's not about some statement put out by any group, it's just thinking through the reality of the MD vs DO situation in this PE/CS deal.

This...”Had a classmate text me an interesting idea. The MD students won't have a CS score to put in ERAS or be asked about during interviews. Their risk of reporting a failing score is 0%. The DO students still have to take PE so their risk of having to report a failing score is > 0%. Thus, it may be best to schedule the PE for after rank list come out if you are a DO student, especially if applying to a competitive specialty.”

 

[Alkaidius]

The conspiracy theorist in me is wondering if this is an attempt to maximize the amount of people that have to go into their backup specialties to increase Primary Care DOs this cycle. But then I remember it’s the NBOME and all they care about is trying to look important and money....

 

[samac]

If schools don't require PE for graduation, can we just take STEP 2 + STEP 3 and avoid COM$HIT? I'm sure I'm missing a lot of steps. Heard some people mention it on reddit.

I think this gets a little tricky in some state licensure requirements are worded in a way that refers to the STEP in relation to MD and COMLEX in relation to DO. This is why everyone goes on and takes Level 3, even the few people I know who did take STEP CS (trying to prove a point after failing PE)

 

[unknownDO]

There is a survey on FB:

"DO Class of 2021 -- Let's create some data to show how we feel about taking the PE (for or against) from students across the nation. Please only fill this out if you are part of DO 2021, and share with your classmates! As stated prior, unified voices and collective data is stronger than voices divided. We are stronger together as a profession, and as colleagues -- let's help our student leaders like Brysen Keith, and give some data to back up our argument. While this is not the official COSGP survey they are trying to get approved through AACOM, the goal of this is speed and spread to help move their own processes along by providing numbers to back their argument, as well as providing public data on our own to share. Thank you everyone and be safe! "

COMLEX Level 2 PE Participation Survey

Help our voices to be heard! Recent claims have been made saying the vast majority of DO students still want to take our PE in person and we want to know if that is true. This is a survey for the DO 2021 class to explore the feelings surrounding the current format and planning of the PE in light...

docs.google.com

 

[You shall know the Truth]

Done

 

[BeLikeH2O]

une personne très populaire sur SDN a dit un jour qu'il y avait un prix à payer pour fréquenter une école DO.

 

[Alkaidius]

une personne très populaire sur SDN a dit un jour qu'il y avait un prix à payer pour fréquenter une école DO.

Cute. This isn’t a price, it’s a complete abandonment of purpose. This is like being promised “no man gets left behind” only to have exactly that happen. This is not the fault of people that chose to go DO.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

une personne très populaire sur SDN a dit un jour qu'il y avait un prix à payer pour fréquenter une école DO.

Yeah no.

 

[Prehealth1011]

une personne très populaire sur SDN a dit un jour qu'il y avait un prix à payer pour fréquenter une école DO.

absurdité.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

If I was in 2021 I am scheduling PE very soon after Oct 21st submission when residency’s can see your app.

You guys need to get this crap test done. It’s a graduation requirement and NBOME is on the ‘screw em’ train along with your admin. Don’t put it off cause of rank order list, unless you re-release your scores after the 21st residencies will not see the PE. If you submit your scores with your app prior to taking PE and they will only see what you already took. But after you submit your app you need to schedule PE as soon as possible so you can get it done and graduate.

NBME gave you a gift in that PE cannot be required for interviews this year, which was becoming a popular idea. Use it too your advantage, but remember that this test takes upto 6 weeks to come back, and that slots are going to be very limited later on for retakes. At least 8% of you will fail and need to retake. Don’t put it off, or you will risk voiding your own match when you can’t graduate on time.

this is another one of those times where being a DO hurts you, but at least you can limit the damage. I would snap up all those late October spots as soon as you can. Also remember you can’t edit your app after you submit, I forgot that last year and never quite had the polish I wanted.

 

[Ho0v-man]

une personne très populaire sur SDN a dit un jour qu'il y avait un prix à payer pour fréquenter une école DO.

 

[TwistedTea]

Every time he's said that - and i think it's atleast 5 times now - the primate in me wanted to throw poop at him.




From what our dean is saying COCA is pretty lenient about changing policies due to COVID. I think this is just Gimple trying not to refund crap loads of cash that the NBOME probably has already spent in those fancy HVAC systems and safety measures he keeps referencing.

Deans are terrible sources of information

 

[hallowmann]

If schools don't require PE for graduation, can we just take STEP 2 + STEP 3 and avoid COM$HIT? I'm sure i'm missing a lot of steps. Heard some people mention it on reddit.

The bigger issue is that in many states, especially the ones with different state Osteopathic Medical Boards, they require completion of the COMLEX series for licensure. You have to finish the levels even if your school allows you to graduate without the CE/PE.

That said it does give me an odd idea. I wonder if I could take Step 3 now that the CS isn't required. The CS was the biggest barrier to me not completing the series... Random thought, I can't quite think of a reason it would be useful though.

...
Are the COSGP members really in favor of resuming the PE exam?

I don't buy it, its probably just more rhetoric. I expect nothing less from Gimpel.

NBME gave you a gift in that PE cannot be required for interviews this year, which was becoming a popular idea. Use it too your advantage, but remember that this test takes upto 6 weeks to come back, and that slots are going to be very limited later on for retakes. At least 8% of you will fail and need to retake. Don’t put it off, or you will risk voiding your own match when you can’t graduate on time.

This has been and should always be the policy for the PE. Take it so the score doesn't come back until after apps are released. Also, it took mine 8 weeks to come back back in the day. I'm surprised they're releasing it earlier.

 

[hallowmann]

Depends on your definition of many. Only seven states do not accept USMLE for DOs: CA, FL, MI, OK, PA, TN, WV.

https://osteopathic.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/US-licensure-Summary-MAY-2020.pdf

That would fit my definition of many. Multiple. A non-insignificant number. Its also more significant to me personally because one is my home state and another is the state I will likely settle in.

 

[hallowmann]

TN and MI are part of the Interstate Medical Licensure compact, so you could get a license in another compact state and apply for licnense by reciprocity in TN and MI.

That may be possible, but I wouldn't have faith in that without knowing DOs that it worked for. My trust in DO boards to do the logical thing is nil.

 

[samac]

Depends on your definition of many. Only seven states do not accept USMLE for DOs: CA, FL, MI, OK, PA, TN, WV.

https://osteopathic.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/US-licensure-Summary-MAY-2020.pdf

Thanks for the link! I knew there were some states but couldn’t remember which ones.
this is why I wouldn’t try doing the step series in place of the comlex. It’s not worth it to me to limit my practice locations if I don’t have to.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

More closed captions of statements by Dr. Gimpel.

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https://www.aamc.org/system/files/2020-05/covid19_Final_Recommendations_05112020.pdf

Are the COSGP members really in favor of resuming the PE exam?

Yeah bro, it was all a straight faced lie. All it takes is a 5 second glance at the published recommendation to see that safety was a massive consideration and driver of their creation.

If I was in 2021 I am scheduling PE very soon after Oct 21st submission when residency’s can see your app.

You guys need to get this crap test done. It’s a graduation requirement and NBOME is on the ‘screw em’ train along with your admin. Don’t put it off cause of rank order list, unless you re-release your scores after the 21st residencies will not see the PE. If you submit your scores with your app prior to taking PE and they will only see what you already took. But after you submit your app you need to schedule PE as soon as possible so you can get it done and graduate.

I’m tired of having to explain this to people ahead of us. Your statements are useless because they aren’t possible. Right now there are no testing dates before the month of February in either location, and February is mostly full. At least 10% of the class of 2021 is schedule AFTER the end of 2020, I.e won't have a score until after rank lists are due. This is assuming they start testing on July 1 and Gimpel was hedging like crazy about that happening at the latest webinar, which tells me there is a very good chance there are further delays.

It would be very easy for COCA to waive it as a graduation requirement. In fact, the NBME has shown it’s possible to just not even deliver the test for 12-18 months. The NBOME following suit is the only acceptable response at this point.

 

[Splenda88]

I think this gets a little tricky in some state licensure requirements are worded in a way that refers to the STEP in relation to MD and COMLEX in relation to DO. This is why everyone goes on and takes Level 3, even the few people I know who did take STEP CS (trying to prove a point after failing PE)

Interesting... I am applying for unrestricted license in a couple of states and none of them mention specifically USMLE/COMLEX requirements... Just a vague sentence about passing all the USMLE. States give NBME/FSMB/NBOME total power to do whatever they want. If they want to add another test for licensure, state legislatures won't do anything about it. This is madness!

 

[samac]

Interesting... I am applying for unrestricted license in a couple of states and none of them mention specifically USMLE/COMLEX requirements... Just a vague sentence about passing all the USMLE. States give NBME/FSMB/NBOME total power to do whatever they want. If they want to add another test for licensure, state legislatures won't do anything about it. This is madness!

Yeah there’s another post where the states that require the comlex are listed, but there are 7 of them.

 

[Splenda88]

While I hope the NBOME is absorbed into NBME, where is the PR firestorm gonna come from? I feel like the vast majority of people don't even know it exists. So unless DOs rise up (which they haven't done yet) and throw it in the face of NBOME, Gimpel will slide by like he has been

NBME is not that much better... They are also after the $$$

 

[samac]

Dr. Mike tweeted about it. That’s some National attention I guess.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Is COSGP really supporting resumption of PE during this pandemic? If so, why?

Because they are sheep. A friend sent me screenshots of their twitter, and it’s just basically a second Gimpel account posting all of his quotes from the webinar. For eg. “80% of PDs accept COMLEX in residency applications!”

 

[zNoodlez]

Dr. Mike tweeted about it. That’s some National attention I guess.

I don't think he is as popular on Twitter as he is on Youtube, to be honest.

 

[OverlyRomantic]

I don't think he is as popular on Twitter as he is on Youtube, to be honest.

If he does a Youtube video on it then it will make national headlines. Almost all of his videos are featured on NowThis. But, I still appreciate Dr.Mike using Twitter to speak out, at the very least. His Twitter platform is still big!