NDBE P/F change?!?!

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I would think that any new alternate test would be something that pretty well mirrors the info NBDE I tests you on. So I'd hope that the same resources could be used to study for it. It would basically be like taking the same exam twice.

If this were the case it would make sense just to change the way the current test is graded. Have a P/F grade and then do whatever statistics/curves necessary to spit out a number score as well.

Two tests, same subject matter, just seems silly.
 
maybe they should have made part II pass/fail, part I scored. Part II is more clinically relevant, and pass/fail reflects its original intended purpose. Part I on the other hand is an examination of basic sciences background and is more for laying the foundations of understanding on which clinical science is built upon. I think they should encourage students to excel on the Part I (since background understanding is very important) and that can remain as the basis of specialty placement. or is ADA trying to encourage students to spend more time in the clinics than studying? if they were going to create a new specialty placement exam....why the heck not have Part I remain where it is, and modify just the Part II (perhaps integrating some science background understanding in more clinical settings)
 
maybe they should have made part II pass/fail, part I scored. Part II is more clinically relevant, and pass/fail reflects its original intended purpose. Part I on the other hand is an examination of basic sciences background and is more for laying the foundations of understanding on which clinical science is built upon. I think they should encourage students to excel on the Part I (since background understanding is very important) and that can remain as the basis of specialty placement. or is ADA trying to encourage students to spend more time in the clinics than studying? if they were going to create a new specialty placement exam....why the heck not have Part I remain where it is, and modify just the Part II (perhaps integrating some science background understanding in more clinical settings)


I think you have the answer. Now we just need to get this to some high-ranking ADA official!


And in regards to part of that comment, I don’t think making part I P/F will encourage students to spend more time in the clinics than studying. Most students still have to study a bit to pass. And also, the students who were going to go overboard in studying in order to do well on part I (for specializing) will now just waste even more time studying for an additional second test.
 
If this were the case it would make sense just to change the way the current test is graded. Have a P/F grade and then do whatever statistics/curves necessary to spit out a number score as well.

Two tests, same subject matter, just seems silly.
Agree, but if the JNDE (whatever that is) owns the test, and they think its integrity is being jeopardized by having scores, it wouldn't make sense for them to provide them in addition to the P/F.
I'm still a bit confused as to how having a score affects the integrity of the test. Is this a cheating concern? Do they mean the NBDE has morphed into something that doesn't test well for a license? Any thoughts??
 
as if dental students aren't stressed out enough already. they should just go ahead, combine NBDE I and II (perhaps have more testlets with more application in clinical settings) and have this combined NBDE exam replace Part II. This NBDE exam will be graded on a pass/fail basis to examine for the student's clinical knowledge and competency. Then...they can create a separate basic sciences exams that focuses more on facts and concepts rather than clinical integration. have this replace NBDE Part I. in the end, everybody's happy.
 
as if dental students aren't stressed out enough already. they should just go ahead, combine NBDE I and II (perhaps have more testlets with more application in clinical settings) and have this combined NBDE exam replace Part II. This NBDE exam will be graded on a pass/fail basis to examine for the student's clinical knowledge and competency. Then...they can create a separate basic sciences exams that focuses more on facts and concepts rather than clinical integration. have this replace NBDE Part I. in the end, everybody's happy.

This is almost 100% what will happen, but the second exam will be administered by some other group, and probably be scored on a straight scale instead of a percentile.
 
This is almost 100% what will happen, but the second exam will be administered by some other group, and probably be scored on a straight scale instead of a percentile.

Taking the Kaplan class really help me out with the DAT (Kaplan is the ONLY thing I use to study for the DAT!)...if only Kaplan can help us out with this new exam thats coming out soon! Okay getting off topic I know...:laugh:
 
So I've been following this topic on this board and the residency board a bit. I'm applying to schools this summer and was planning on going wherever made the most sense financially (assuming I'd be happy there as well). At this point I'm not sure if I want to specialize, but I was planning on entering dental school with the attitude that I'm going to do as well as I can so that I have the opportunity to specialize if I want to. I never really considered trying to get into the big name schools mostly because of the cost, and I knew that if I rocked the boards it wouldn't matter too much. Should I now consider trying for some of the bigger names?
 
So I've been following this topic on this board and the residency board a bit. I'm applying to schools this summer and was planning on going wherever made the most sense financially (assuming I'd be happy there as well). At this point I'm not sure if I want to specialize, but I was planning on entering dental school with the attitude that I'm going to do as well as I can so that I have the opportunity to specialize if I want to. I never really considered trying to get into the big name schools mostly because of the cost, and I knew that if I rocked the boards it wouldn't matter too much. Should I now consider trying for some of the bigger names?


no, go the the cheapest school with the best clinic.
 
The specialty card would drastically change. I wouldn't even know how they'd accept students. Currently, students with scores in the mid/high 90's would apply, while students with lower scores'd be discouraged and not apply. Now there'll be a surge of applications to the specialties, because those students that normally wouldn't have made the NBDE score cut would now apply. There'll be a flood of wouldn't-have-applied students applying and there's no standardized screening system.

I don't see how specialty programs would create a new test, as there's not yet a central agency to write, distribute, and test questions. The ADA did all that for the NBDE, but specialty departments simply do not have the resources to develop a new test AND test it out with current students.

Residency programs still want top students, and they have to work with what they have remaining. The DAT score can still serve as an admissions criteria. Class rankings will probably become more important for many schools. The problem, however, is in the unranked schools. There are only a few select schools can pull off the no-rankings system, because they're the top schools. But how would a program distinguish the top half from bottom half of Columbia? If a lower tier school were to try to not rank, then the specialty programs would be severely turned off because they can't determine who the top 5% of the class are, and they may not risk accepting students. The reputation of the school is one of the biggest remaining indicators of student quality. It matters now more than ever. I really wished I had known this, because it would have played a part in deciding which school I attend. It would be to everyone's advantage to attend Harvard, Columbia, UCLA and to a moderately lesser extent Penn and UCSF if they were given a chance.
 
The specialty card would drastically change. I wouldn't even know how they'd accept students. Currently, students with scores in the mid/high 90's would apply, while students with lower scores'd be discouraged and not apply. Now there'll be a surge of applications to the specialties, because those students that normally wouldn't have made the NBDE score cut would now apply. There'll be a flood of wouldn't-have-applied students applying and there's no standardized screening system.

I don't see how specialty programs would create a new test, as there's not yet a central agency to write, distribute, and test questions. The ADA did all that for the NBDE, but specialty departments simply do not have the resources to develop a new test AND test it out with current students.

Residency programs still want top students, and they have to work with what they have remaining. The DAT score can still serve as an admissions criteria. Class rankings will probably become more important for many schools. The problem, however, is in the unranked schools. There are only a few select schools can pull off the no-rankings system, because they're the top schools. But how would a program distinguish the top half from bottom half of Columbia? If a lower tier school were to try to not rank, then the specialty programs would be severely turned off because they can't determine who the top 5% of the class are, and they may not risk accepting students. The reputation of the school is one of the biggest remaining indicators of student quality. It matters now more than ever. I really wished I had known this, because it would have played a part in deciding which school I attend. It would be to everyone's advantage to attend Harvard, Columbia, UCLA and to a moderately lesser extent Penn and UCSF if they were given a chance.

Regardless of how it comes about, there will always be some sort of objective standardized test in place that will, for most programs/schools at least, be tantamount to subjective things like reputation/name, letters of rec and extra curriculars. If formerly P/F "specialty schools" like the above begin to rank, their intramural competitiveness could spike through the stratosphere.

It's the same old argument about getting admission to dental school. Does the fact that I went to an Ivy make up for my 3.0 GPA? It always depends on the test scores.
 
Taking the Kaplan class really help me out with the DAT (Kaplan is the ONLY thing I use to study for the DAT!)...if only Kaplan can help us out with this new exam thats coming out soon! Okay getting off topic I know...:laugh:

Was it the online class?
 
Regardless of how it comes about, there will always be some sort of objective standardized test in place that will, for most programs/schools at least, be tantamount to subjective things like reputation/name, letters of rec and extra curriculars. If formerly P/F "specialty schools" like the above begin to rank, their intramural competitiveness could spike through the stratosphere.

It's the same old argument about getting admission to dental school. Does the fact that I went to an Ivy make up for my 3.0 GPA? It always depends on the test scores.

Now, the scenario is more 'I went to an Ivy where I was not given a GPA.' In fact, to my knowledge the schools that are unranked are all top schools. Residencies can use class rank for all other schools. The question is...how do you choose between these 2 students... a GPA-less, NBDE score-less student from Columbia and a Maryland student with a GPA of 3.6 who is 15th ranked.

I'm not too sure there WILL be a new standardized test. "Specialty programs" are not much more than departments within schools. They're not filthy rich [enough to fund creation of a new test], don't have funding allocated to such, and they have no one in the dept in charge of such a thing. They can look into the American Association of [specialty field] or they can just accept based on what information they currently have. They can use class rank for those that provide them and reputation of schools for those that don't (which happen to be top notch schools, anyway).
 
you can't exactly compare a student ranked #40 at a school like Columbia (avg entering GPA is 3.4+, DAT is 22) with a student ranked #20 at a school with avg entering GPA of 3.25 and DAT of 19. The competition level between different schools differ, and GPA can't be standardized due to different curriculum between schools. Some schools focus heavily on for ex medical sciences, and other schools focus more on clinical training...so how do you pick one over the other?
 
The DAT score can still serve as an admissions criteria.

😱

And I just got rid of all my old DAT study materials!

(That would be funny if they resorted to that.)
 
Some schools focus heavily on for ex medical sciences, and other schools focus more on clinical training...so how do you pick one over the other?


This is not a problem that just arose. It's always existed. They'll select them based on the same principles they've always used.
 
The specialty card would drastically change. I wouldn't even know how they'd accept students. Currently, students with scores in the mid/high 90's would apply, while students with lower scores'd be discouraged and not apply. Now there'll be a surge of applications to the specialties, because those students that normally wouldn't have made the NBDE score cut would now apply. There'll be a flood of wouldn't-have-applied students applying and there's no standardized screening system.

I don't see how specialty programs would create a new test, as there's not yet a central agency to write, distribute, and test questions. The ADA did all that for the NBDE, but specialty departments simply do not have the resources to develop a new test AND test it out with current students.

Residency programs still want top students, and they have to work with what they have remaining. The DAT score can still serve as an admissions criteria. Class rankings will probably become more important for many schools. The problem, however, is in the unranked schools. There are only a few select schools can pull off the no-rankings system, because they're the top schools. But how would a program distinguish the top half from bottom half of Columbia? If a lower tier school were to try to not rank, then the specialty programs would be severely turned off because they can't determine who the top 5% of the class are, and they may not risk accepting students. The reputation of the school is one of the biggest remaining indicators of student quality. It matters now more than ever. I really wished I had known this, because it would have played a part in deciding which school I attend. It would be to everyone's advantage to attend Harvard, Columbia, UCLA and to a moderately lesser extent Penn and UCSF if they were given a chance.

Yes, attending these schools is a privilege, but I don't think it would help when applying for specialty programs. I don't see how a school's reputation could possible play a HUGE role in labeling someone as the 'qualified' student for specialty programs. Columbia's entrance GPA is nowhere near that of some state schools. Plus, look at the class size. Penn's class size is much bigger than other dental schools, which is one of the reasons for why they have higher entrance avgs. Also, what about students who turn down expensive schools like ivies for the cheaper state schools.
Throwing a school's reputation into the equation will introduce quite a bit of unfairness in the admissions process, I think.
 
Now, the scenario is more 'I went to an Ivy where I was not given a GPA.' In fact, to my knowledge the schools that are unranked are all top schools. Residencies can use class rank for all other schools. The question is...how do you choose between these 2 students... a GPA-less, NBDE score-less student from Columbia and a Maryland student with a GPA of 3.6 who is 15th ranked.

I'm not too sure there WILL be a new standardized test. "Specialty programs" are not much more than departments within schools. They're not filthy rich [enough to fund creation of a new test], don't have funding allocated to such, and they have no one in the dept in charge of such a thing. They can look into the American Association of [specialty field] or they can just accept based on what information they currently have. They can use class rank for those that provide them and reputation of schools for those that don't (which happen to be top notch schools, anyway).

If there's not a new standardized test created, there will always be the option of using something pre-existing, like the USMLE, COMLEX, DAT or GRE.

I also think it's "wishful thinking" that a residency director would give preference to a student with literally no performance indicating information simply because they went to what some consider prestigious schools. Insinuating that the worst students at UCLA or Harvard are equivalent to the best students at any number of other schools is ludicrous.
 
I'm sure it'll all work out... I mean some people have to specialize...New test or not...

Excerpt from UCLA regarding the issue:
Our faculty and administration, as well as dental educators nationwide, were just recently informed of this change, and discussions have begun regarding how the school will respond. At this time I have no specifics to share, but I assure you that the best interests of our students will be a high priority.
I trust that UCLA has my interests at heart, since my interests coincide with UCLA's interests. BUT, being a guinea pig never feels secure...
 
BUT, being a guinea pig never feels secure...

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

It wouldn’t be as bad if we actually knew what plan B was going to be. I hope they’ll tell us before we start, because our time to prepare for plan B starts then.
 
Was it the online class?

NO, it was the classroom class. The tutor wasn't much help but ALL the materials given by Kaplan was great! 😀
Like I say before Kaplan materials are the best, if only they can help us out with the boards!
 
If there's not a new standardized test created, there will always be the option of using something pre-existing, like the USMLE, COMLEX, DAT or GRE.

I also think it's "wishful thinking" that a residency director would give preference to a student with literally no performance indicating information simply because they went to what some consider prestigious schools. Insinuating that the worst students at UCLA or Harvard are equivalent to the best students at any number of other schools is ludicrous.

The USMLE is 80% pathophysiology. You do not want to tackle that badboy. Did I mention it's 0% dental? 😱

I maintain my stance that if you want the possibility of specializing and don't yet know what system you'll be judged on in the future, you may want to go ahead and go to the best school you get into. Play it safe until you learn more.
 
The specialty card would drastically change. I wouldn't even know how they'd accept students. Currently, students with scores in the mid/high 90's would apply, while students with lower scores'd be discouraged and not apply. Now there'll be a surge of applications to the specialties, because those students that normally wouldn't have made the NBDE score cut would now apply. There'll be a flood of wouldn't-have-applied students applying and there's no standardized screening system.

I don't see how specialty programs would create a new test, as there's not yet a central agency to write, distribute, and test questions. The ADA did all that for the NBDE, but specialty departments simply do not have the resources to develop a new test AND test it out with current students.

Residency programs still want top students, and they have to work with what they have remaining. The DAT score can still serve as an admissions criteria. Class rankings will probably become more important for many schools. The problem, however, is in the unranked schools. There are only a few select schools can pull off the no-rankings system, because they're the top schools. But how would a program distinguish the top half from bottom half of Columbia? If a lower tier school were to try to not rank, then the specialty programs would be severely turned off because they can't determine who the top 5% of the class are, and they may not risk accepting students. The reputation of the school is one of the biggest remaining indicators of student quality. It matters now more than ever. I really wished I had known this, because it would have played a part in deciding which school I attend. It would be to everyone's advantage to attend Harvard, Columbia, UCLA and to a moderately lesser extent Penn and UCSF if they were given a chance.

Thats my point too. I just don't understand why some people find it so hard to believe...
 
Thats my point too. I just don't understand why some people find it so hard to believe...


I don't agree with columbia. People are uber competitive and you will have hard time getting the Honor grade. Also, their clinical training is weak. Harvard, UCLA, and UCSF have Pass/Not pass w/o honor so people won't be competing like crazy, and Penn is a well rounded school (as are UCSF and UCLA). Columbia is not.
 
I don't agree with columbia. People are uber competitive and you will have hard time getting the Honor grade. Also, their clinical training is weak. Harvard, UCLA, and UCSF have Pass/Not pass w/o honor so people won't be competing like crazy, and Penn is a well rounded school (as are UCSF and UCLA). Columbia is not.

Snap! Them be fightin words...

This thread may just take a trun towards getting ugly.
 
The USMLE is 80% pathophysiology. You do not want to tackle that badboy. Did I mention it's 0% dental? 😱

I maintain my stance that if you want the possibility of specializing and don't yet know what system you'll be judged on in the future, you may want to go ahead and go to the best school you get into. Play it safe until you learn more.

Consider the following:

1. If you have no information on the upcoming change, and I mean literally none, it's impossible to make a concrete decision based on speculation. People should continue choosing schools the same way they always have. Compound that with the fact that in the long run, it's very probable that the new system will be almost identical to the old system.

2. You have no objective reason to say one school is better than another other than reputation. Note that there are many, many people who don't hold the same standards that you do as far as what makes the "best" school.

All I'm seeing in this thread is a lot of self-fulfillment fantasies where the NBDE change makes that persons individual school the #1 school in the nation. Trying to tell people they should make a decision based completely on speculation is just wrong.
 
I don't agree with columbia. People are uber competitive and you will have hard time getting the Honor grade. Also, their clinical training is weak. Harvard, UCLA, and UCSF have Pass/Not pass w/o honor so people won't be competing like crazy, and Penn is a well rounded school (as are UCSF and UCLA). Columbia is not.

This is all speculation and I completely disagree. The breadth of clinical training someone gets in dental school likely has a lot to do with how motivated they are to get it, and considering that a high percentage of Columbia students are seeking specialty training I doubt that theres any inherent defect in their curriculum.

Also, you're incorrect about the straight P/F at the UC schools and Harvard. IIRC there's no school in the country without sort of tiered P/F system. I do agree however, if there were to be no standardized test, competitiveness at these schools would explode, but that's very, very unlikely.
 
😱

And I just got rid of all my old DAT study materials!

(That would be funny if they resorted to that.)

i don't think using the DAT would make much sense unless they expect you to retake it--and even then the material you learn in dental school seems like it would be much more relevant when applying for a specialty program--which the DAT does not test you on.
 
NO, it was the classroom class. The tutor wasn't much help but ALL the materials given by Kaplan was great! 😀
Like I say before Kaplan materials are the best, if only they can help us out with the boards!

Kaplan does have courses for the NDBE.

Would you say that the online Kaplan course is good enough for the DAT or is the classroom course better?
 
Consider the following:

1. If you have no information on the upcoming change, and I mean literally none, it's impossible to make a concrete decision based on speculation. People should continue choosing schools the same way they always have. Compound that with the fact that in the long run, it's very probable that the new system will be almost identical to the old system.

2. You have no objective reason to say one school is better than another other than reputation. Note that there are many, many people who don't hold the same standards that you do as far as what makes the "best" school.

All I'm seeing in this thread is a lot of self-fulfillment fantasies where the NBDE change makes that persons individual school the #1 school in the nation. Trying to tell people they should make a decision based completely on speculation is just wrong.

1) We all understand that you teach the Anybody Can Succeed seminar on Channel 3, immediately following Donald Trump's Real Estate Investments talk. But when there are no information available, you make a safe investment. It's hard to go wrong with Harvard, Columbia, UCLA, and UCSF. They're all very cheap schools, and all have time-tested quality. Only Penn's a bit expensive. How does a student at an average school shine and demonstrate that he's comparable to the students at the top schools? Used to be his performance on the NBDE. Now how else will he shine academically, aside from class rank?

We've all said you can go to any school. As long as you do well on the boards, you can specialize. Now what? Even I'm at a loss for how to get what I want. I have no clue how to play this game anymore.

If specialty programs are going to implement a new test, then they have 2 years to get the funding, get together with all programs in the country, decide what concepts in that 2 year dental school period are important to test on, write questions, and test them out on students. Or they can do nothing and use what info they have to the best of their ability. Or they can do what investment firms do and administer their own exam during the interviews. Top performances get consideration. (This would be sooo not hot)

2) They can go to what they consider the best school.
 
Doing well at a top school will give you better specialization chances than doing well at an average state school! Not all dental schools are created equal.

*runs away* 😛
 
I don't agree with columbia. People are uber competitive and you will have hard time getting the Honor grade. Also, their clinical training is weak. Harvard, UCLA, and UCSF have Pass/Not pass w/o honor so people won't be competing like crazy, and Penn is a well rounded school (as are UCSF and UCLA). Columbia is not.

Competitiveness of the students isn't the biggest factor here. P/F grading doesn't decrease competition. When you're in class all day and there are 4hrs of lectures and 2-4 hrs of lab, when do you have time to study, eat, sleep, and rest? Everybody works hard, not because they're competitive, but because they're struggling to keep up with the material of the classes. They also have to retain all the information they learned.

The vast majority of the students at dental and dental in medical schools will be working hard all day.
 
I really don't see what the big deal is. If you plan on specializing do as well as possible in school, get involved in your field of interest, do research, write a sick personal statement, etc.

I think using NBDE part I is a somewhat lopsided factor to use for post-doc admissions purposes, except for maybe oral surgery.

And don't even get me started on how some people continue to think "the name" of their school will coast them into a specialty program. It makes me want to vomit. I suppose ignorance is bliss.

Just my 2 cents,
jb!🙂
 
I also don't see what the big deal is. To me, it seems that we aren't giving the admissions people at residency programs enough credit. I'm sure that no matter what happens, residencies are going to pick the most qualified individuals. I'm sure that they'll also come up with other objective criteria to judge applicants, whether it be a new test or not. The p/f format is not going to keep people from specializing, if they really want to.
 
1) We all understand that you teach the Anybody Can Succeed seminar on Channel 3, immediately following Donald Trump's Real Estate Investments talk. But when there are no information available, you make a safe investment. It's hard to go wrong with Harvard, Columbia, UCLA, and UCSF. They're all very cheap schools, and all have time-tested quality. Only Penn's a bit expensive. How does a student at an average school shine and demonstrate that he's comparable to the students at the top schools? Used to be his performance on the NBDE. Now how else will he shine academically, aside from class rank?

We've all said you can go to any school. As long as you do well on the boards, you can specialize. Now what? Even I'm at a loss for how to get what I want. I have no clue how to play this game anymore.

If specialty programs are going to implement a new test, then they have 2 years to get the funding, get together with all programs in the country, decide what concepts in that 2 year dental school period are important to test on, write questions, and test them out on students. Or they can do nothing and use what info they have to the best of their ability. Or they can do what investment firms do and administer their own exam during the interviews. Top performances get consideration. (This would be sooo not hot)

2) They can go to what they consider the best school.


Again, there's no such thing as an average or top school except in your mind. How does a student with no class rank or GPA show that they can achieve what top students (high class rank) at other schools can?

There will be an objective criteria. It may but be ideal, but it will be there whether hastily created or adapted from another professions exam. If there isn't, P/F schools will either have to rank their students or go completely without objective information, either of which you should sincerely hope don't happen.
 
The thing that worries me though is how are the directors going to compare somebody with pass/non-pass board grade with someone else with number grade?😕 Since we'll the first class with board grade in that format how will the decide whom to pick?😕
 
The thing that worries me though is how are the directors going to compare somebody with pass/non-pass board grade with someone else with number grade?😕 Since we'll the first class with board grade in that format how will the decide whom to pick?😕

They will probably just reject the P/F applicants and only accept GPA applicants. That would be too bad for those mystical "top schools".

Just joking. I'm sure the directors aren't stupid, they'll find some way to compensate for a P/F NBDE and for different schools' grading styles.

Of course, since we all will be the guinea pigs, I think they should just put all the applicant's names into a hat and draw them out randomly. That sounds fair, right?

Directors are probably pretty good critcal thinkers, I'm sure they'll be able to deal with this issue. They are also probably intelligent enough to realize that just because an applicant is from Columbia doesn't automatically make them more qualified for a residency.
 
I don't agree with columbia. People are uber competitive and you will have hard time getting the Honor grade. Also, their clinical training is weak. Harvard, UCLA, and UCSF have Pass/Not pass w/o honor so people won't be competing like crazy, and Penn is a well rounded school (as are UCSF and UCLA). Columbia is not.

Wow, thats a lot of HATE for a school that won't accept you anyways...:laugh:👎rolleyes: You are making it sound like Columbia and Harvard are BEGGING to have you as a student...
 
Kaplan does have courses for the NDBE.

Would you say that the online Kaplan course is good enough for the DAT or is the classroom course better?


Do you think the current Kaplan courses for the NDBE is going to be good for the supposely "new" test coming out?? I am not sure it will work the same way for the new exam...I hope Kaplan will have enough time to update for this new exam.

I would recommend the classroom course b/c its pretty much the SAME price. The classroom course is only 100 dollars more. I will take that over the online course.
 
Wow, thats a lot of HATE for a school that won't accept you anyways...:laugh:👎rolleyes: You are making it sound like Columbia and Harvard are BEGGING to have you as a student...


Harvard is much different. They have pure Pass/Not Pass system, and students at Harvard are very happy, whereas Columbia students are miserable.

Besides, who would want to have you as classmate?
 
Wow, thats a lot of HATE for a school that won't accept you anyways...:laugh:👎rolleyes: You are making it sound like Columbia and Harvard are BEGGING to have you as a student...

very professional. well done.
 
very professional. well done.

oh, btw, I was accepted at Columbia too. I even have the acceptance letter with Dr. D and M's handwritings. But after learning how miserable Columbia students are, and how poor of a clinical training they get, I decided not to attend there.

Oh, and the fact that SHC1984 is going there was big too. Thanks Ms. YC W! 😀
 
oh, btw, I was accepted at Columbia too. I even have the acceptance letter with Dr. D and M's handwritings. But after learning how miserable Columbia students are, and how poor of a clinical training they get, I decided not to attend there.

Oh, and the fact that SHC1984 is going there was big too. Thanks Ms. YC W! 😀

wow, now you are making things up to save face...Let me guess your DAT is a 30AA and yesterday the dean of Harvard came to your house and paid you a million dollars to attend there?? Oh god you are right every school wants you...🙄

And who wants you as a classmate? I was thinking the same thing...the only things you are good at is making things up and talking trash about someone you don't even know on a public forum...get a hobby...
 
This is all speculation and I completely disagree. The breadth of clinical training someone gets in dental school likely has a lot to do with how motivated they are to get it, and considering that a high percentage of Columbia students are seeking specialty training I doubt that theres any inherent defect in their curriculum.

Also, you're incorrect about the straight P/F at the UC schools and Harvard. IIRC there's no school in the country without sort of tiered P/F system. I do agree however, if there were to be no standardized test, competitiveness at these schools would explode, but that's very, very unlikely.

Exactly, and I happen to know a few current Columbia students and they will all tell you that Columbia is not cut throat competitive at all.
 
wow, now you are making things up to save face...Let me guess your DAT is a 30AA and yesterday the dean of Harvard came to your house and paid you a million dollars to attend there?? Oh god you are right every school wants you...🙄

And who wants you as a classmate? I was thinking the same thing...the only things you are good at is making things up and talking trash about someone you don't even know on a public forum...get a hobby...

Ms, YC W, ask me anything about the Columbia admission package as I still have them. You don't need a 30AA to get into Columbia. you got in with a mere 21 despite having transfered from a community college. HTH.
 
Ms, YC W, ask me anything about the Columbia admission package as I still have them. You don't need a 30AA to get into Columbia. you got in with a mere 21 despite having transfered from a community college. HTH.

What are you talking about? My dat score is a 22 and I never step foot in a community college...
The point is...you know nothing about me or Columbia...so why are you spending so much time talking about something you have NO clue about??? well say whatever you want I don't care. I just know that Columbia is NOTHING like what you say it is and there are people on this forum that would agree.
 
What are you talking about? My dat score is a 22 and I never step foot in a community college...
The point is...you know nothing about me or Columbia...so why are you spending so much time talking about something you have NO clue about??? well say whatever you want I don't care. I just know that Columbia is NOTHING like what you say it is and there are people on this forum that would agree.

Well your predents profile says that it is 21AA not 22. You know, we were talking about AA, and not TS right?? (since you said 30AA). You forgot your own score?
Also, you did go to a community college, don't lie. I can even name you the school.
 
Well your predents profile says that it is 21AA not 22. You know, we were talking about AA, and not TS right?? (since you said 30AA). You forgot your own score?
Also, you did go to a community college, don't lie. I can even name you the school.

I have a 21.5 AA my RC brought it down...I went to a public school (a average one I admit, but I had a full merit scholarship...could have gone to Wake Forest) But its not a community college I assure you.
 
What are you talking about? My dat score is a 22 and I never step foot in a community college...
The point is...you know nothing about me or Columbia...so why are you spending so much time talking about something you have NO clue about??? well say whatever you want I don't care. I just know that Columbia is NOTHING like what you say it is and there are people on this forum that would agree.

no offense, but you know nothing more about columbia than anyone else here on the forums besides current dental students. when i interviewed at Columbia, on the same day as you mind you, one of the students who had lunch with us told us that they treated the dental students like second rate med students and i heard her echoing some of the things i read here on sdn.

not trying to be a jerk, but you're not going to be an expert on how the school is run until you attend. columbia is a great school and good for you for getting in (no sarcasm). however, it is not the be all and end all, and i'm THANKFUL i didn't get into columbia because UBC fits MY PERSONAL GOALS much better than columbia would have. the point i'm trying to make by bringing this up is that you shouldn't be belittling others simply because they aren't attending Harvard or Columbia, because some people have gotten into these schools and simply chose not to go (sticking up for mydat here).
 
I have a 21.5 AA my RC brought it down...I went to a public school (a average one I admit, but I had a full merit scholarship...could have gone to Wake Forest) But its not a community college I assure you.

Yeah, so your score IS 21 NOT 22. Why do you claim otherwise??? you are stupid and funny. And yes, you did go to Green River Community College, Ms. YC W. Well, your future Columbia classmates will like you, so don't worry 😀😀😀


EDIT : SHC1984, please don't bother me with your PM. I know that you are curious as to how I know you, but plz don't send me your PM again. I don't like to PM with a liar. thanks
 
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