Need advice on decision making

[AimToDrMom]

Hello Everyone :
I am a regular visitor and I can't thank enough for the details shared in here. My daughter is a senior in HS and she is very much interested in the BS/DO program and she applied for the same. Here are the results

Accepted
Nova/NSUCOM 7 year program - good scholarship - 3.4 UG gpa with average MCAT 502 - Non binding/Guaranteed seat
SBU/LECOM - decent scholarship - 3.2 UG gpa with NO MCAT - Binding/Guaranteed seat
IIT/CCOM - Full tution in IIT -- 3.5 UG gpa with MCAT above national average - Non Binding/Guaranteed seat
NYIT/NYCOM - good scholarship -- 3.5 UG gpa with MCAT above national average. Have to go thru interview with NYCOM after 3 years - Binding

Waiting
Usciences/PCOM - Attended the interview and waiting on results -- Guaranteed INTERVIEW only with PCOM - Non binding
Rutgers Camden/ROWSOM -- Waiting on ROWSOM interview. - Binding/Guaranteed seat

Rejected
Rowan/ROWSOM

We are NJ resident. Can you guide us on choosing the best programs among the ones listed above.

Really appreciate your input.

Note : My daugher is not interested on the traditional route and want to pursue Medicine thru 7 or 8 year programs.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[tswol]

PCOM is the best, but NOVA is good too. I would definitely go to a non-binding one, you could end up being a good MD candidate in a few years and you shouldn't limit your options.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

Can I ask why she chose DO combined programs rather than MD ones?

 

[AimToDrMom]

Can I ask why she chose DO combined programs rather than MD ones?

Hi... To be honest my daughters GPA wasn't competitive for combined BS/MD program and she shadowed a DO doctor who guided her to pursue this option and she is happy with DO.

 

[AimToDrMom]

PCOM is the best, but NOVA is good too. I would definitely go to a non-binding one, you could end up being a good MD candidate in a few years and you shouldn't limit your options.

Thank you. PCOM is not a guaranteed seat but Nova is. Any idea on IIT and CCOM which is also non-binding.

 

[CoomassieBlue57]

Thank you. PCOM is not a guaranteed seat but Nova is. Any idea on IIT and CCOM which is also non-binding.

I'm a student at CCOM, and have not heard anything about students taking this route.

 

[ReapPremed]

I don't know much about BS/DO programs. Does she need to score an MCAT or uGPA above those metrics to maintain her acceptance, or are you using those averages to compare programs?

But I don't think you should be looking at uGPA and MCAT to compare these programs. You should be looking at COMLEX scores and match rates to assess your daughter's chances of success if that ends up her school of choice. If you look around this forum you can see how much anxiety and heartbreak and uncertainty applying to medical school can bring. I think you should weigh potentially bypassing all of that, against whether or not she would be happy at Nova or IIT. As I understand it she can back out of CCOM or NSUCOM if she decides against medicine, or gets into an MD program?

And kick LECOM and its binding acceptance to the curb. The school is a last resort, and it knows it, and treats its students and applicants accordingly. When I go on a tour of a medical school I don't want an impish smile from my 28-going-on-8 tour guide about how "he has to sneak snacks in mandatory lecture" or "the third floor has administrative offices. You don't want to be called up there." I want to hear about how the faculty are amazing, and about how its wonderful research and service opportunities will make me a great doctor with an awesome residency. I heard none of that while touring LECOM.

 

[AimToDrMom]

I'm a student at CCOM, and have not heard anything about students taking this route.

Oh... thats surprising.. Here is the link with details on the dual program : admissions.iit.edu/undergraduate/programs/dual-admission-osteopathic-medicine-bs-do

 

[AimToDrMom]

I don't know much about BS/DO programs. Does she need to score an MCAT or uGPA above those metrics to maintain her acceptance, or are you using those averages to compare programs?

But I don't think you should be looking at uGPA and MCAT to compare these programs. You should be looking at COMLEX scores and match rates to assess your daughter's chances of success if that ends up her school of choice. If you look around this forum you can see how much anxiety and heartbreak and uncertainty applying to medical school can bring. I think you should weigh potentially bypassing all of that, against whether or not she would be happy at Nova or IIT. As I understand it she can back out of CCOM or NSUCOM if she decides against medicine, or gets into an MD program?

And kick LECOM and its binding acceptance to the curb. The school is a last resort, and it knows it, and treats its students and applicants accordingly. When I go on a tour of a medical school I don't want an impish smile from my 28-going-on-8 tour guide about how "he has to sneak snacks in mandatory lecture" or "the third floor has administrative offices. You don't want to be called up there." I want to hear about how the faculty are amazing, and about how its wonderful research and service opportunities will make me a great doctor with an awesome residency. I heard none of that while touring LECOM.

uGPA and MCAT are the requirement to stay in the Dual admission program.

Sure.. I will check on the COMLEX scores and match rates as well.

CCOM and NSUCOM - she can apply outside for MD or any other DO program. It is not binding.

ITT/CCOM - Is IIT a hard school to get good GPA?

Nova/NSUCOM - How is Nova as a UG school - Does it have a strong pre-med program and prepare well for MCAT?

Thanks again for responding with your inputs.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

she is happy with DO.

She’s a high school student. She is simply not old enough, or educated enough, to make this decision.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I realize that you took longer to obtain a COM seat than the typical 3/4-year premedical student, but, to make a blanket statement that no high school senior has the capacity to make a career decision is a fallacy. Support your conclusion with attached empirical premises. A single anecdote without clarification doesn't at all help the OP.

Actually it is you who must prove that a high school student is mature enough to make a career altering decision such as this. I didn’t provide any anecdotes so I don’t know what you’re talking about, as my own experience has literally no bearing on my comment.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is what we call a schill.

 

[MakeLifeHappen13]

It makes no sense to commit to a D.O. school so early on when she has the opportunity to excel in her undergraduate degree and potentially earn a seat at an M.D. school.

 

[Osminog]

Out of the options you listed, SBU/LECOM is probably the best option just by virtue of the fact that she wouldn't have to take the MCAT. And a 3.2 should be very doable.

But the best option would be for your daughter to avoid any of these linkage programs and to just get the highest undergraduate GPA and MCAT she can. She should gun for MD, and if that doesn't work out, then... well, DO schools aren't going anywhere.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

It's down to you to prove the disparity, not to me to prove the nondisparity. "She’s a high school student. She is simply not old enough, or educated enough, to make this decision." You'd have to explain this to mom why this blanket statement holds true for her daughter as well.

Well for starters her mom is here asking questions for her.... Also, seeing as it is the general consensus that HS students are immature, it is up to you to prove otherwise seeing as you are advocating for the opinion that is not the standard dogma. That's how this works.

The UGs attached to BS/DO programs are generally not very good or well known. The catch with DO schools is that this person could go to a much better UG and get the required GPA and MCAT that NSU requires and still get into NSU. If this person goes to a better UG, gets a good GPA, gets a good MCAT, they will have a much better chance at MD schools. The 150k is chump change and very easily made up over the course of a medical career and should have absolutely no bearing on this decision.

With the current climate around the merger and the rapid growth of medical school seats with little growth in residency seats, there is no reason that this person should do a BS/DO program. You suggesting as such is simply terrible advice, and is not looking out for the best interest of this person.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

The notion that, high school seniors are immature and cannot make rational career decisions, is very grim and unsubstantiated. It is you who first presented this conclusion without sound arguments - my point is simply that your argument is anecdotal and without supporting evidence. Faced with inquiry on how you came to this conclusion, it is your responsibility to defend your unelaborated conclusion by explaining yourself. That's how this works.

Now, to defend my point that, the undergraduate institution she attends doesn't matter very much as long as she performs well:
Does Undergraduate Reputation Matter For Admissions? - Prospective Doctor
If one attends an university(Nova/Illinois Tech) that is not highly ranked, but obtains a high GPA and MCAT, they would still have a chance at every med school in the nation, because the MCAT score is the equalizer. If one attends Harvard and receives a below-average GPA and an average MCAT score, the name of the institution does not make up for inadequate stats.
The GPA and MCAT is definitely more important than the institution. The difficulty to obtain high GPAs rises as university ranking climbs. It would be much easier for her to obtain a 4.0 at NSU than a 4.0 at UCLA/UWash/Cornell/MIT.

Your assumption is that she can land a 3.6+ cGPA/sGPA and a 510+ on the MCAT, the applicant average for MD schools. Without the secured seat, she'll be required to gun for these stats. How can you be sure that she does reach these stats, and welcomes the added stress of not having the NSUCOM cushion? Is the possibility that she might do great in the higher-ranked undergraduate institution enough to decline the guaranteed DO seat attached to a lesser-ranked university? Explain.

She can get the 3.8+ cGPA/sGPA and 510+ MCAT under NSU, do well in the interviews, then most certainly obtain an MD seat.

I, for example, am maintaining a 3.93 at NSU and cracking into the Kaplan sets while still in my freshman year. Will apply to mid~top tier MDs during my junior year, with a nice chance of getting an acceptance if I don't weird out the interviewers.

Lol wait so you’re a freshmen in college? So a little scientific method lesson, you are the one who is actually using an anecdote as your basis of your argument as I have presented no such anecdote but you are basing your comments off of your personal decisions. The idea that the majority of HS students are immature and generally not ready to make career defining decisions is simply the accepted truth, therefore you are the one who needs to provide empirical evidence to the contrary if you want to disprove that. That’s how this works. You are the one presenting ideas contrary to the current dogma.

First bolded paragraph: any Pre-med should be gunning for the best stats they can get. Knowing you have a guaranteed seat will generally act as a crutch and you may not give as much effort as you normally would simply because, “well why would I try and do that good when I only need to do this to keep my seat.” Your UG can actually have a decent sized bearing on where you go to medical school. UG schools can be feeders to medical schools. An applicant from a top UG with the same application will have better outcomes than someone from small, unknown UG. You don’t need the NSU cushion because if you get the stats that NSU requires for direct entry then you will almost assuredly garner other DO acceptances.


From your last paragraph I can tell you that your understanding of the application process and the competitive nature of medical school admissions is rather poor. That’s ok for a freshman, someday though you will realize why your comments are somewhat fantastical for someone in your position.

My original comments stand, this person being described in the OP is not ready to make a career defining decision like this and would be extremely foolish to go to NSU. DO schools aren’t going anywhere.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

No. The unsubstantiated conclusion of your first post was that "most high schoolers are immature and cannot make good career choices." I guarantee that you cannot provide empirical evidence for this initial claim you made, except your subjective perspective that this notion is objectively true. It isn't, and you won't be able to garner evidence to establish this dogma against high school seniors. Again, I'm asking you to provide empirical(verified) evidence for this purported normative truth you first claimed. It's not my responsibility to, provide evidence against a claim you won't defend with evidence, in order to disprove your claim.
If that didn't click, here's the TL;DR
'High school seniors are not mature enough to make good career choices on their own" Support this idea with evidence, not with an anecdotal claim that attempts to objectify a subjective perspective. Also explain how, even with the OP's daughter's DO shadowing experience, she should not pursue DO but MD instead, because she doesn't really know if she wants DO or not.

"Knowing you have a guaranteed seat will generally act as a crutch and you may not give as much effort as you normally would simply because, “well why would I try and do that good when I only need to do this to keep my seat.”
You keep throwing out your gloomy prospects on young adults with another blanket statement that students tend towards laziness and not perform to their full potential, because they may be mentally curbed by the program's cushion. There being zero conducted psych studies on students in dual-admit programs, you hold no evidence nor a reliable source of information, and should not speak as if you do.

The previous point stands. One has a great chance of getting into medical school armed with a good GPA and MCAT even from a lesser ranked institution. The name of the institution is miniscule in importance. Giving up the NSUCOM seat to take a shot at getting an excellent GPA and MCAT at another higher-ranked institution is not looking out for the OP's daughter's best interests. It is presumptuous to think that she'll definitely have a successful application cycle if she performs well at a higher-ranked institution, and if not, would prefer a gap year than going to NSUCOM.
Does undergraduate college matter for med school admissions? - ExpertHub
"Your GPA, MCAT scores, and interview performance will be the most important factors in the medical school admissions process. The undergraduate institution that you attend is not particularly relevant, especially if it's clear that you chose it to ease your financial burden. If anything, this decision will show that you're capable of making mature and practical life choices. These schools are typically looking for students who come from diverse backgrounds and show a particular interest in their specific program. If you earn excellent scores on the MCAT and can point to achievements in college that show your passion for the medical field, it shouldn't make a difference which undergraduate college you attend."

Regarding my last paragraph which you criticized. You can apply to medical school during your junior year if you complete the MCAT in the summer of your sophomore year. Finish your prerequisites, do volunteer and research work, and nail the MCAT, and you can apply early. Thus why I'm tackling the Kaplan sets in my freshman year.

I’m done with this discussion as it’s clear you are so stubborn that you won’t actualky listen to what’s being said. You citing PrepScholar shows your lack of understanding. Your comments are precisely why HS students are not mature enough to make career deciding decisions. Many of your comments simply aren’t true, and are based in what you hope happens to you and your personal anecdote.

I am going to repeat this one more time even though I know you won’t listen. The notion that HS students are too immature to make this sort of decision is already an accepted fact in society. Go ask 10 people and 9/10 people will say so. This is the current dogma. I do not need to provide empirical evidence because this is already widely accepted as true. If you want to argue with the current accepted dogma then it is on YOU to provide the empirical evidence. This is how research and science works. If you want to change the current dogma it is your responsibility to show why it should be changed.

Instead of going through your post line by line and showing you why you’re wrong, I’m going to let it go. Goodluck in ug and I hope you have the sort of success that you think you will.

I stand by my original comments to OP. Your daughter should absolutely not do a BS/DO program and it would be in her best interest to go the traditional route

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I'm going to be a DO, and even I would not want my kid forced into this degree unless better alternatives were off the table. My best advice is selecting something non-binding and with the lowest acceptance requirements. All DO schools are essentially the same thing with different costs and locations

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Instead of discounting the argument because PrepScholar isn't what you consider as a reliable source, I advise you to read the argument made by Sam and point out its fallacies, if there are any. I appreciate your time and the debate practice, but you've hit the philosophical bedrock of evading arguments.

The argument that something must be true if you conceive it as a widespread normative understanding, without proof, is not an argument. I've asked you to substantiate your claim multiple times, and you failed to. You'd have to prove to me that 'HS students are too immature to decide which profession is right for them' is true, not with the subjective statement that it must be. That said, simply because a notion is widely believed doesn't make it true; take Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, or Christianity for example.
To reiterate, "this is already widely accepted as true", is a subjective statement. But, even if something is widely believed, it still doesn't make it true. You'd have to provide evidence. The OP's daughter, already a good student with shadowing experience, is perfectly capable of deciding which profession is right for her. The program I'm in puts me in NSUCOM after three years UG if I receive no other external acceptances, simple as that.

If you can't back your claim that her daughter is too immature to make career decisions, don't post it. It will mislead the OP.

Use @AlbinoHawk DO 's advice. Choose the dual program with the lowest stat requirements (LECOM/NSUCOM). Nova as an UG is a great school overall, with small class sizes under 20 pupils. That said she's perfectly capable of landing an MD acceptance if she performs well at any accredited undergraduate institution.

I don't want to get in the middle of your guy's argument, but we all know that in most of the world studying Medicine happens directly after High School and have sat next to many students in our medical school class that wanted to be doctors since before they could read and write. That said, definitely do not close doors into the future in case you change your mind.

 

[Opticalfuture]

Well for starters her mom is here asking questions for her.... Also, seeing as it is the general consensus that HS students are immature, it is up to you to prove otherwise seeing as you are advocating for the opinion that is not the standard dogma. That's how this works.

The UGs attached to BS/DO programs are generally not very good or well known. The catch with DO schools is that this person could go to a much better UG and get the required GPA and MCAT that NSU requires and still get into NSU. If this person goes to a better UG, gets a good GPA, gets a good MCAT, they will have a much better chance at MD schools. The 150k is chump change and very easily made up over the course of a medical career and should have absolutely no bearing on this decision.

With the current climate around the merger and the rapid growth of medical school seats with little growth in residency seats, there is no reason that this person should do a BS/DO program. You suggesting as such is simply terrible advice, and is not looking out for the best interest of this person.

Im confused u can take the mcat in hs??

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Im confused u can take the mcat in hs??

What? No, well, I guess you technically could register and take it but you wouldn’t know anything on it so would basically just be guessing answers. In the combined programs you still have to take the MCAT even with the guaranteed seat because most have a certain threshold you have to hit to be able to continue on into the MD/DO program. I believe there are a handful of combined programs where you don’t actually have to take it and I believe they are all BS/MD and are extremely competitive.

 

[Opticalfuture]

What? No, well, I guess you technically could register and take it but you wouldn’t know anything on it so would basically just be guessing answers. In the combined programs you still have to take the MCAT even with the guaranteed seat because most have a certain threshold you have to hit to be able to continue on into the MD/DO program. I believe there are a handful of combined programs where you don’t actually have to take it and I believe they are all BS/MD and are extremely competitive.

What r the requirements to get in because im a junior in hs

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

What r the requirements to get in because im a junior in hs

Start by using proper grammar and actually spelling out words. Then go ask your question in the SDN HS forums

 

[Opticalfuture]

Start by using proper grammar and actually spelling out words. Then go ask your question in the SDN HS forums

I asked a legit question and didn't ask for your criticism. Its text! I don't have to type complete as long you get what im saying

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I asked a legit question and didn't ask for your criticism. Its text! I don't have to type complete as long you get what im saying

Welcome to the real world, where the way you present yourself through text matters. People will create opinions and judgements of you on how you write and interact with them through social media. I suggest getting in the habit now of not writing like a teenager with their first cell phone.

 

[AimToDrMom]

Currently a NSU/NSUCOM program student. Being in the program doesn't 'mentally bind you' or 'limit your options.' It's an open-ended agreement where, if you earn a minimum 3.3 cGPA/sGPA and 502 on the MCAT, your matriculation to NSUCOM is secured. An incredible opportunity for her as a high school senior, since less than 5% of medical school applicants are accepted each year. NSUCOM is a prestigious and well-furnished school as well. Didn't have the choking formaldehyde smell in LECOM-Erie. (a BS/DO LECOM-E program)
You are allowed to opt out of that contract at any time, meaning, you can apply to other medical schools or professional schools. Program director Dr. Sztam is an amazing and very supportive advisor. Contact him at
A coveted secret for NSU's dual program is that you can switch between admission tracks without further screening/interviewing, say, from medicine to dentistry.

Are tuition+board costs a concern for your family?

I appreciate you for reaching out to the community on behalf of your doctor. Feel free to launch question at me.

I really appreciate taking time to respond. I have few more questions, if thats ok to ask :
1. How are the research opportunities - can she start from freshmen?
2. Do you know what is the average MCAT score from Nova UG students?
3. Also I was trying to find the stats on how many NSU UG students applied out to MD/DO and what is the matriculate rate? I looked into the below aamc/aacom site and couldn't find NSU there? Any thoughts?
4. Let me know if my daughter can reach out to you offline if she have any more questions... IF that OK with you.

Tuition and Board should be ok. Except the distance.. We live in NJ.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I really appreciate taking time to respond. I have few more questions, if thats ok to ask :
1. How are the research opportunities - can she start from freshmen?
2. Do you know what is the average MCAT score from Nova UG students?
3. Also I was trying to find the stats on how many NSU UG students applied out to MD/DO and what is the matriculate rate? I looked into the below aamc/aacom site and couldn't find NSU there? Any thoughts?
4. Let me know if my daughter can reach out to you offline if she have any more questions... IF that OK with you.

Tuition and Board should be ok. Except the distance.. We live in NJ.

Why are you asking these questions instead of your daughter?

 

[Opticalfuture]

Welcome to the real world, where the way you present yourself through text matters. People will create opinions and judgements of you on how you write and interact with them through social media. I suggest getting in the habit now of not writing like a teenager with their first cell phone.

First off i am a teen and idc ppl will judge you even if i won the spelling bee every year. You dont know the person behind it

 

[WingedOx]

She’s a high school student. She is simply not old enough, or educated enough, to make this decision.

Yeah, the fact that it's the parent in here on these forums is telling.

 

[WingedOx]

ITT/CCOM - Is IIT a hard school to get good GPA?

Well I can tell you as someone with insider knowledge* that they are a good but engineering-heavy school... and engineering schools aren't exactly known for easy grading.

*my insider knowledge is that I can kinda see their campus from my living room
**I can see DePaul's basketball arena better, though.

 

[foxwood]

Hello Everyone :
I am a regular visitor and I can't thank enough for the details shared in here. My daughter is a senior in HS and she is very much interested in the BS/DO program and she applied for the same. Here are the results
Since you are NJ residents, have you and your daughter looked at Stockton University? They have a 7 yea dual program with RowanSOM
Accepted
Nova/NSUCOM 7 year program - good scholarship - 3.4 UG gpa with average MCAT 502 - Non binding/Guaranteed seat
SBU/LECOM - decent scholarship - 3.2 UG gpa with NO MCAT - Binding/Guaranteed seat
IIT/CCOM - Full tution in IIT -- 3.5 UG gpa with MCAT above national average - Non Binding/Guaranteed seat
NYIT/NYCOM - good scholarship -- 3.5 UG gpa with MCAT above national average. Have to go thru interview with NYCOM after 3 years - Binding

Waiting
Usciences/PCOM - Attended the interview and waiting on results -- Guaranteed INTERVIEW only with PCOM - Non binding
Rutgers Camden/ROWSOM -- Waiting on ROWSOM interview. - Binding/Guaranteed seat

Rejected
Rowan/ROWSOM

We are NJ resident. Can you guide us on choosing the best programs among the ones listed above.

Really appreciate your input.

Note : My daugher is not interested on the traditional route and want to pursue Medicine thru 7 or 8 year programs.

 

[WingedOx]

Note : My daugher is not interested on the traditional route and want to pursue Medicine thru 7 or 8 year programs.

Hi... To be honest my daughters GPA wasn't competitive for combined BS/MD program and she shadowed a DO doctor who guided her to pursue this option and she is happy with DO.

So here's the important questions: (1)Why? (2) and how well does she understand the processes of selection for medical training beyond college? Nothing you're posting here is showing that she's thinking long-term beyond the initial acceptance.

I have to agree with the consensus (with the exception of one very defensive but vocal college freshman ) that she absolutely shouldn't touch binding programs and in the end a guaranteed admission to the DO schools listed isn't all that great an incentive all things considered.

The undergrad schools in these programs are decent but not the most selective places on earth and the programs work to benefit the undergrads to help recruiting students who are at a higher tier than their typical profile. That's fine and all but it'd be up to you to decide if what you're getting in return is worth it. New Jersey students with your daughter's stats aren't exactly fighting for spots to attend college in Camden or Glassboro, for example.

As people mentioned above, if your daughter has the stats for admission in this program she has plenty of potential to do well in college and get into LMCE (MD) schools, which won't start putting up hurdles the same way that attending a COCA (DO) school will...for examples on that, check the numerous threads on said topic. Not going to get into it today. If you daughter went to another school and didn't manage to achieve the stats for a DO admission, then honestly there are other academic issues that would have prevented her from doing well once in med school that would have surfaced, particularly if it was due to a poor MCAT (and no, @Femur, if a "nutjob professor" managed to derail your medical career, then you had no business with a medical career in the first place )... some students describe the first year of medical school as an MCAT every 3 weeks, so in the long run asking being able to skip the MCAT like the LECOM program isn't going to do anything for you besides mask test taking problems that will surface big time when the stakes are higher.

So while there's a certain appeal to the "security" of the DO acceptance, there are still significant ways your daughter can find herself tripped up along the way which make it less secure than you'd think, and you'd be stepping down in quality of undergraduate institution. Nova's a decent enough school, but I'm not sure I'd travel across the country for it. I'd say the same for Illinois Tech except for the full tuition (though you still presumably have cost of living in Chicago)

 

[AimToDrMom]

So while there's a certain appeal to the "security" of the DO acceptance, there are still significant ways your daughter can find herself tripped up along the way which make it less secure than you'd think, and you'd be stepping down in quality of undergraduate institution. Nova's a decent enough school, but I'm not sure I'd travel across the country for it. I'd say the same for Illinois Tech except for the full tuition (though you still presumably have cost of living in Chicago)

I truly respect your view towards the dual admission program. And even for me sending her away so far from home is a difficult choice. She also got accepted to Rutgers in NJ for pre-med and the tuition is the same or slightly higher than Nova. So we have that option opened as well. Thanks for providing me your views.

 

[AimToDrMom]

I really think your daughter should go through the traditional route. At least DO NOT go to a binding dual program.

#2 - I completely agree as a mom. Its a huge commitment.
To be honest, my daughter tried taking courses on Computer science, Finance and Business classes in local community college to see if she really likes any of those. I wouldn't call it as a complete exploration , but she tried it to see whats her best interest. Then she volunteered in palliative care and shadowed doctors and she liked it. I understand the rigor and she understands it too.
As you mentioned, she won't pick the BINDING program for sure.
Thanks again for your time and input.

 

[WingedOx]

I truly respect your view towards the dual admission program. And even for me sending her away so far from home is a difficult choice. She also got accepted to Rutgers in NJ for pre-med and the tuition is the same or slightly higher than Nova. So we have that option opened as well. Thanks for providing me your views.

I'm also biased toward small liberal arts colleges if you're truly set on pre-med. I came from a school fairly similar to Drew University, to choose an example that's local to you.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

The others above who claim that the acceptance to dual admissions will mentally bind her and bar her from exploring further career option, are stating subjective unsubstantiated anecdotes.

You keep using that word, I don’t think it means what you think it means.

 

[WingedOx]

Nova's a stellar undergraduate university. The rank of a university isn't significant at all in med school admissions, @WingedOx. She's got a shot at any MD school if she performs well at Nova for UG.

Albeit the veiled implications in the phrase "vocal freshman", I explicitly stated 'nutjob college professors' in plural form. A single difficult class wouldn't make or break your stats, but, she risks facing unprecedented and unpredicted hurdles in UG, or even an unlucky application cycle. Furthermore, not all applicants with above-average stats secure acceptances each year.

To repeat, she's can very well get an MD acceptance if she does well at Nova for her undergrad career. Take the dual admission acceptance and fly. The others above who claim that the acceptance to dual admissions will mentally bind her and bar her from exploring further career option, are stating subjective unsubstantiated anecdotes. They don't know that as they haven't participated in that program. As a current dual student holding the dual acceptance, that notion is completely ridiculous. Once in the program, students can also switch their dual admission track to other professional programs(dentistry, education, optometry, clinical psychology, business, audiology, computer science, law)

Only on SDN will you find kids whose only experience in higher education is their freshman semester trying to argue with attending physicians and med school faculty. I guess I'll have to account for your wisdom next time I'm interviewing an applicant.

 

[Select All That Apply]

Only on SDN will you find kids whose only experience in higher education is their freshman semester trying to argue with attending physicians and med school faculty. I guess I'll have to account for your wisdom next time I'm interviewing an applicant.

You didn't use a research article published within the past 5 years to validate this claim nor did you use APA format and you didn't write this as a 5 paragraph response with introduction, three subject paragraphs, and a conclusion. Hence your sarcasm here is uncalled for and you must atone for your sins.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

I really appreciate taking time to respond. I have few more questions, if thats ok to ask :
1. How are the research opportunities - can she start from freshmen?
2. Do you know what is the average MCAT score from Nova UG students?
3. Also I was trying to find the stats on how many NSU UG students applied out to MD/DO and what is the matriculate rate? I looked into the below aamc/aacom site and couldn't find NSU there? Any thoughts?
4. Let me know if my daughter can reach out to you offline if she have any more questions... IF that OK with you.

Tuition and Board should be ok. Except the distance.. We live in NJ.

DO is considered to be an inferior degree for those hoping to specialize compared to MD. Are you ok with commiting her to primary care and close of those specialist doors early?

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Nova's a stellar undergraduate university. The rank of a university isn't significant at all in med school admissions, @WingedOx. She's got a shot at any MD school if she performs well at Nova for UG.

Albeit the veiled implications in the phrase "vocal freshman", I explicitly stated 'nutjob college professors' in plural form. A single difficult class wouldn't make or break your stats, but, she risks facing unprecedented and unpredicted hurdles in UG, or even an unlucky application cycle. Furthermore, not all applicants with above-average stats secure acceptances each year.

To repeat, she's can very well get an MD acceptance if she does well at Nova for her undergrad career. Take the dual admission acceptance and fly. The others above who claim that the acceptance to dual admissions will mentally bind her and bar her from exploring further career option, are stating subjective unsubstantiated anecdotes. They don't know that as they haven't participated in that program. As a current dual student holding the dual acceptance, that notion is completely ridiculous. Once in the program, students can also switch their dual admission track to other professional programs(dentistry, education, optometry, clinical psychology, business, audiology, computer science, law)

Undergrad ranking matters a lot. I found out three of my cofellows went to Harvard for undergrad. What a conincidence! Literally 12 years after undergrad, we still see the same peer in elite fellowships.

Haven’t ran into anyone from NOVA yet.

 

[Select All That Apply]

I truly respect your view towards the dual admission program. And even for me sending her away so far from home is a difficult choice. She also got accepted to Rutgers in NJ for pre-med and the tuition is the same or slightly higher than Nova. So we have that option opened as well. Thanks for providing me your views.

Rutgers "pre-med" shouldn't cost the same as Nova for in-state residents after factoring in the Scarlet Scholarship and the Edward J. Bloustein Scholarship. Both of those are given to students on admission based on SAT scores which your daughter should qualify for seeing as how her scores were competitive for BA-DO admissions. On that note, I agree with @WingedOx that if I could have chosen undergraduate schools outside of financial limitations then I would have chosen a small liberal arts school for my premedical education.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Poor way to discredit another argument - through ad hominem. I suggest taking a philosophy course and rev up your game.

Also reported your post, which is inappropriate. Again, present points against my argument in order to challenge it, not with childish remarks.

In a certain light, telling others to take freshman level philosphy course is childish remark.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

The philosophy course I'm enrolled in currently isn't freshman-level. There's juniors and seniors in my class. There's also juniors and seniors in my orgo class.

I guarantee you that no one philosophically informed will make that kind of remark. Be peaceful, courteous, and argumentative, but don't go back to being juvenile. If they do, call them out.

Congrats dude, juniors and seniors are in your philosphy course.

Do review this comment of yours when you turn 30 and think about how it comes out.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Being currently a medical student or a doctor doesn't make you knowledgeable in all things in a field you've crossed. You know that, right?

No, but it sure makes you far more knowledgeable about that field than a college freshman

Especially one that cites internet forums as his "evidence."

 

[WingedOx]

In a certain light, telling others to take freshman level philosphy course is childish remark.

It does, however, have the added bonus of making you sound like a college freshman.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

It doesn't

It's testimonial evidence from med students, doctors, professors, and admission counselors that are tangible and observable. Not empirical though, but still a form of evidence.

Again, cite arguments against the ones I present, not with brusque remarks



I recommended you take a philosophy course, as the things you say on here are clumsy and, simply, not characteristic of someone who is philosophically informed. You can't discredit arguments by citing to age, academic rank, or jeer

One can easily discredit himself/herself enough. You have done just so.

Anyway, none of your sources are legitimate as they are based on anonymous internet forum posts.

Since you are making an extraordinary claim (undergrad pedigree doesn’t matter) for medicine, while the contrary clearly exist for other professional fields like law and business, it’s up to YOU to prove your claim, and not with forum posts. It’s laughable when you do that.

 

[WingedOx]

One can easily discredit himself/herself enough. You have done just so.

Anyway, none of your sources are legitimate as they are based on anonymous internet forum posts.

Since you are making an extraordinary claim (undergrad pedigree doesn’t matter) for medicine, while the contrary clearly exist for other professional fields like law and business, it’s up to YOU to prove your claim, and not with forum posts. It’s laughable when you do that.

I mean, ignoring the freshman, "pedigree" does matter, but the strength of the candidates coming into said undergraduate institutions probably matters more when it comes to output. I've worked/trained with a lot of Harvard, UChicago, WashU folks, but I also have a nice smattering of Directional State grads. It matters in medicine a lot less than other similarly competitive fields like banking, though that doesn't mean you should put yourself at a disadvantage unless there's a significant financial incentive to move down a tier for your education. And I certainly can't recommend moving across the country to a college like Nova, as was the original point of this thread...though I have to admit the weather down there is probably nicer this time of year.

 

[WingedOx]

Most schools have a less than 5% application acceptance rate - the dual admission program requires only a 3.3cGPAsGPA and a 502 on the MCAT, with the option to graduate from the UG in three years. Being in the program allows the student to focus on their academic endeavors without having to stress over the possibility not receiving an acceptance.

Below indicates that public and private schools differ significantly in their emphasis on UG selectivity. The OP's daughter can hold her given NSUCOM acceptance, and apply out freely to both private and public medical schools, with a greater chance being accepted to public MD schools. The reason I advocate strongly for OP's daughter to attend a BS/DO is that she has shadowing experience with DO physicians, and would like to go to a DO school. Applying from Nova will not severely limit her chances if she applies out - adcoms value performance over college rank.
View attachment 230915

I know that you want to shill for your school and that you're a "student ambassador" or whatever but it would help if the reading comprehension and maturity you're displaying here weren't both garbage.

No one is saying that Nova isn't a perfectly adequate college, but as said above, there are a hell of a lot better options out there. The guaranteed admission is a serious double-edged sword, and even that's a generous interpretation. If a student is entering med school with a sub-3.5, or sub-30 equivalent they're a high risk admission and run the risk of having even more costly problems down the line. Every single person in my own med school class who failed the first year came out of our HS-acceptance program, and it was a hell of a lot more competitive and selective than Nova's. Plus, jumping into a DO school a year early is a monumentally stupid move, especially if you are MD capable.

But hey, if your ego requires you to keep digging, go ahead, but it would help if you found a way to not get confused about the definitions of things like what "freshman level" means.

 

[Select All That Apply]

Wait. Has this entire conversation been an elaborate advertisement for NSUCOM?

 

[WingedOx]

Wait. Has this entire conversation been an elaborate advertisement for NSUCOM?

Regardless, he's been trying to be the Saul Amezcua of Nova for a while now.

Dual Admission/Early Acceptance Programs

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

My criticism of Grey12's comment that high school seniors are incapable of making career decisions, is that he couldn't cite evidence of any form

Again, let me explain this simply. What I stated is the widely accepted current dogma. That is a fact. If you don't believe me then I suggest re-reading your own posts as they are full of anecdotal evidence. Go take a random survey of 1000 randomly selected individuals if you want hard data, but the burden of proof is on you. Seeing as YOU are the one attempting to make a claim that contrary to the current dogma, the requirement for evidence and citations to prove otherwise lies on your shoulders. That is how science works.

I can tell you fancy yourself as some great philosophical individual. I highly suggest re-thinking that self image as your opinions and maturity are rather juvenile. You attempt to use intricate phrases that sound good in a classroom yet your statements fall flat and ring with falsehoods, as it is clear you lack any actual experience with the topic that you debate. Statements like this reveal just how little you know about this process:

with a greater chance being accepted to public MD schools.