Need help deciding between Western COMP, MSUCOM, and AZCOM

[nightfyre]

So, I previously posted a thread on AZCOM vs MSUCOM, but now Western COMP is in the picture and I am having trouble deciding where I should go. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

I'd like to end up back in CA for a residency program, but would be okay with going out of state for a residency program. I'm not fond of the weather in Michigan, but I do recognize that they seem to have a wider variety of specialties for students to rotate through. I'm currently interested in family medicine and integrative medicine. I would like to do research, but that seems like it would be possible at all schools. I liked AZCOM's campus and environment the best, but people have reported getting some bad rotations. From what I understand MSUCOM doesn't seem to have the same kinds of problems with rotations that Western or AZCOM would have, which then makes MSUCOM more appealing?

Will what school I pick matter when applying for allopathic and osteopathic residency programs? Because if the school doesn't matter, then I might as well just close my eyes and choose.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[bionerd89]

So, I previously posted a thread on AZCOM vs MSUCOM, but now Western COMP is in the picture and I am having trouble deciding where I should go. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

I'd like to end up back in CA for a residency program, but would be okay with going out of state for a residency program. I'm not fond of the weather in Michigan, but I do recognize that they seem to have a wider variety of specialties for students to rotate through. I'm currently interested in family medicine and integrative medicine. I would like to do research, but that seems like it would be possible at all schools. I liked AZCOM's campus and environment the best, but people have reported getting some bad rotations. From what I understand MSUCOM doesn't seem to have the same kinds of problems with rotations that Western or AZCOM would have, which then makes MSUCOM more appealing?

Will what school I pick matter when applying for allopathic and osteopathic residency programs? Because if the school doesn't matter, then I might as well just close my eyes and choose.

Are you a Michigan resident?

 

[nightfyre]

I'm not a Michigan resident, but I have an OOS scholarship at MSU so the overall costs are pretty similar across the 3 schools.

 

[studocplsignore]

AZCOM does not have video lectures yet, does not have P/F, and costs 55k+ a year.

Please consider this when choosing your school.

 

[bionerd89]

I'm not a Michigan resident, but I have an OOS scholarship at MSU so the overall costs are pretty similar across the 3 schools.

Did you apply for the scholarship or did you automatically receive it due to stats?

 

[nightfyre]

AZCOM does not have video lectures yet, does not have P/F, and costs 55k+ a year.
Please consider this when choosing your school.

AZCOM's overall cost of attendance came out very similar to MSUCOM. Either way I will be swimming in debt haha. Are not having video lectures that big of a deal? When I interviewed at AZCOM, one student told me that the notes they give you are usually comprehensive enough that missing a lecture is not that big of a deal. Also, even at P/F schools residency programs will still see what your ranking was at your school.

 

[nightfyre]

Did you apply for the scholarship or did you automatically receive it due to stats?

I didn't apply for the scholarship, but I asked the office about it after I got accepted.

 

[bionerd89]

I didn't apply for the scholarship, but I asked the office about it after I got accepted.

How did you know that you received the scholarship?

 

[studocplsignore]

AZCOM's overall cost of attendance came out very similar to MSUCOM. Either way I will be swimming in debt haha. Are not having video lectures that big of a deal? When I interviewed at AZCOM, one student told me that the notes they give you are usually comprehensive enough that missing a lecture is not that big of a deal. Also, even at P/F schools residency programs will still see what your ranking was at your school.

Notes are of varying quality, Biochemistry and Physiology are dependable, but they still do not replace video lectures. Yes, they will see your ranking, but there is a lot more perceived 'pressure' with a GPA system.

 

[scummie]

Western is a very established school. If going back to California for residency is that important to you, I think you should go there. Looking at residents on program sites in that area, it seems like everyone is from Western or Touro. By staying in the area, you can rotate at the hospitals you want and get lots of face time versus someone who moved to New York trying to get back into California.

If getting back to California is a bonus and you don't care that much, I would go to the cheapest school. Srsly.

Or if you mega hate snow, don't go to Michigan. Does weather in the 20s and below sound appealing to you? Great school, lots of connected residencies, but you may die of hypothermia first.

So you just have to decide what is most important to you.

 

[Trogghunter]

The cold at msu keeps you inside studying and the patient population is in general very sick/good to learn from. MSU is a school with 55000 people and is really fun, but msucom changed their curriculum to facilitate 'board prep' 2 yrs ago, so class step 1 avgs are unknown.

Pro-- online lectures, a note-taking service, the faculty have taught for decades, everyone knows the MSU name, and its fun if you're young/young at heart.

Cons---cold and unknown how the new curriculum affects boards.

 

[user3]

MSUCOM

 

[hockey40]

Western is a very established school. If going back to California for residency is that important to you, I think you should go there. Looking at residents on program sites in that area, it seems like everyone is from Western or Touro. By staying in the area, you can rotate at the hospitals you want and get lots of face time versus someone who moved to New York trying to get back into California.

If getting back to California is a bonus and you don't care that much, I would go to the cheapest school. Srsly.

Or if you mega hate snow, don't go to Michigan. Does weather in the 20s and below sound appealing to you? Great school, lots of connected residencies, but you may die of hypothermia first.

So you just have to decide what is most important to you.

Currently -2 where I live right now. Michigan isn't for the faint of heart!

 

[D4C]

AZCOM just started doing some recorded lectures. As far as lecture notes, I have never felt unprepared by studying only the notes (and not going to classes).

 

[bionerd89]

Currently -2 where I live right now. Michigan isn't for the faint of heart!

Wow, I'm from the West coast so I think its cold when its like 40 deg. My first winter in Michigan will be so brutal..

 

[hockey40]

Wow, I'm from the West coast so I think its cold when its like 40 deg. My first winter in Michigan will be so brutal..

You get used to it. Doesn't take too long to develop that thick skin haha

 

[nightfyre]

Thanks everyone for your input! So I've narrowed my choices down to Western COMP or MSUCOM. I like SoCal, but now I've decided I wouldn't mind moving to Michigan. Having heard about some pretty terrible experiences at COMP on sdn, I am leaning towards MSUCOM right now hearing that the faculty is good, student support at the school, and having solid rotations. Any COMPers here want to share their positive experiences about their school?

 

[user3]

Thanks everyone for your input! So I've narrowed my choices down to Western COMP or MSUCOM. I like SoCal, but now I've decided I wouldn't mind moving to Michigan. Having heard about some pretty terrible experiences at COMP on sdn, I am leaning towards MSUCOM right now hearing that the faculty is good, student support at the school, and having solid rotations. Any COMPers here want to share their positive experiences about their school?

how different will your COA be at MSUCOM (w/ scholarship) vs COMP?

 

[nightfyre]

how different will your COA be at MSUCOM (w/ scholarship) vs COMP?

Assuming COA does not go up either at MSUCOM or COMP over the next few years, it's a 16k difference.

 

[user3]

Assuming COA does not go up either at MSUCOM or COMP over the next few years, it's a 16k difference.

I think I would still go with MSUCOM.

 

[bajastapler]

I'm not here to say COMP is better or MSUCOM is better. I would, however, pick COMP b/c of location, which translates to regional bias (assuming stats and CVs are similar).

With the recent AOA and ACGME merger California residencies just got that much more competitive. Now you have a complete free-for-all. MD graduates will be gunning for those, previously protected, DO residencies: I'm looking at ones like Fam Med at Chino, Fam Med at Pomona, Gen Surg at Arrowhead, etc. (I don't think I'm stretching when I say this. I talked to some of my buddies that went out of state for MD programs, and they have expressed strong interest in these previously protected programs.) That being said: the greatest benefit of COMP is the opportunity to show your face at these programs not only during your 4th year, if you choose to do so, but you also will be rotating at these hospitals during your 3rd year. If you go out of state, then you will be relying heavily on your one month audition rotation to make enough of an impact for PDs to remember you.

Want stats on where residents are from? Google search a hospital that has a residency program and look for the current resident info. Below is a brief example.

Fam med at Pomona Hospital:
https://www.pvhmc.org/Residency-Program-PVHMC/Meet-the-Residents.asp
anesthesiology at UCLA (D.O. from COMP):
http://www.anes.ucla.edu/residents.php
neurosurg at Arrowhead (Mostly westerners)
http://arrowheadneurosurgery.org/residents--alumni.html

Like I said, I'm not here to say one school is inherently better than the other. Hell I'm sure schools like Harvard even have their issues. If California is your ultimate goal; however, the statistical odds are in your favor to go to Western.

edit: just wanted to give my last thoughts. Don't pick a school b/c of cost. A 16k difference is a drop in the bucket.
If i had to do it all over again I'd pick a school like this:
1st year: which school offers you the most opportunities for summer research
2nd year: which school gives you the most amount of time away from school to prep for boards.
3rd year: which school gives you the best exposure to pathology.
4th year: which school lets you make more away rotations. Which school has success rotating its students through hospitals you would like to do a residency at. Which school has had more previous graduates match at hospitals you are interested in? (I realize it is largely self-dependent where you match, but every school - especially close by regional schools - carry more recognition). And finally, I'd consider previous match lists, to an extent.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

I'm not here to say COMP is better or MSUCOM is better. I would, however, pick COMP b/c of location, which translates to regional bias (assuming stats and CVs are similar).

With the recent AOA and ACGME merger California residencies just got that much more competitive. Now you have a complete free-for-all. MD graduates will be gunning for those, previously protected, DO residencies: I'm looking at ones like Fam Med at Chino, Fam Med at Pomona, Gen Surg at Arrowhead, etc. (I don't think I'm stretching when I say this. I talked to some of my buddies that went out of state for MD programs, and they have expressed strong interest in these previously protected programs.) That being said: the greatest benefit of COMP is the opportunity to show your face at these programs not only during your 4th year, if you choose to do so, but you also will be rotating at these hospitals during your 3rd year. If you go out of state, then you will be relying heavily on your one month audition rotation to make enough of an impact for PDs to remember you.

Want stats on where residents are from? Google search a hospital that has a residency program and look for the current resident info. Below is a brief example.

Fam med at Pomona Hospital:
https://www.pvhmc.org/Residency-Program-PVHMC/Meet-the-Residents.asp
anesthesiology at UCLA (D.O. from COMP):
http://www.anes.ucla.edu/residents.php
neurosurg at Arrowhead (Mostly westerners)
http://arrowheadneurosurgery.org/residents--alumni.html

Like I said, I'm not here to say one school is inherently better than the other. Hell I'm sure schools like Harvard even have their issues. If California is your ultimate goal; however, the statistical odds are in your favor to go to Western.

Sorry for derailing the thread, but by looking at the Family Med. program at Pomona, I couldn't help but noticing how DO grads have replaced Carib grads in the past 2 years.

 

[Trogghunter]

edit: just wanted to give my last thoughts. Don't pick a school b/c of cost. A 16k difference is a drop in the bucket.
If i had to do it all over again I'd pick a school like this:
1st year: which school offers you the most opportunities for summer research
2nd year: which school gives you the most amount of time away from school to prep for boards.
3rd year: which school gives you the best exposure to pathology.
4th year: which school lets you make more away rotations. Which school has success rotating its students through hospitals you would like to do a residency at. Which school has had more previous graduates match at hospitals you are interested in? (I realize it is largely self-dependent where you match, but every school - especially close by regional schools - carry more recognition). And finally, I'd consider previous match lists, to an extent.

From my experience at msu:

1st yr: msu is a research powerhouse, in bio grad programs. They have a complex of labs to work in on campus
2nd yr: class ended today, so you have 2+ months of board prep before clerkship.
3rd yr: state wide campus system where you can seamlessly roitate between hospitals. Many level 1s, hospitals with prison units(no doc for 40yrs because serving life sentences), and Michigan has the healthcare accessibility of a 2nd world nation, even in the state's capital. Also, the MD students are blocked from most hospitals, so its just you guys. There is literally every fellowship in the campus system except interventional pulm(UM doesn't have it either)
4th yr: 5 months of elective out of state rotations available. Seamless rotation application through the office.

Bonus: 3+ huge modern libraries on campus, cafeterias, free gym passes all 4yrs, cold winter=study all of the time and don't regret it.
Everyone recognizes the msu name. I literally don't know where/what any other DO school is it what their names mean except pcom/ccom

I matched my no 1, acgme IM without a usmle

 

[SurgeDO]

residency affiliations & clerkship rotations >>>>> everything else

 

[happypremed1]

I would go to Western b/c it's an awesome school, great rotations, great weather. Academically speaking, MSUCOM is a bit better due to the affiliation with a huge undergrad and the MD school. But I'd choose Western based on the both academics and some intangibles.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I'm not here to say COMP is better or MSUCOM is better.

I'm here to say western is better, but I'm biased ;-)

 

[bionerd89]

Assuming COA does not go up either at MSUCOM or COMP over the next few years, it's a 16k difference.

I think you are super lucky to get that OOS schlarship..there are so many OOS student who would love to go to MSU but can't due to tuition. Overall, MSU is one of the top DO schools. However, if you are super set on getting a residency in CA then Western is probably a better choice. But if you want to go to a reputable school that has great research and rotations then go to MSU.

 

[bionerd89]

From my experience at msu:

1st yr: msu is a research powerhouse, in bio grad programs. They have a complex of labs to work in on campus
2nd yr: class ended today, so you have 2+ months of board prep before clerkship.
3rd yr: state wide campus system where you can seamlessly roitate between hospitals. Many level 1s, hospitals with prison units(no doc for 40yrs because serving life sentences), and Michigan has the healthcare accessibility of a 2nd world nation, even in the state's capital. Also, the MD students are blocked from most hospitals, so its just you guys. There is literally every fellowship in the campus system except interventional pulm(UM doesn't have it either)
4th yr: 5 months of elective out of state rotations available. Seamless rotation application through the office.

Bonus: 3+ huge modern libraries on campus, cafeterias, free gym passes all 4yrs, cold winter=study all of the time and don't regret it.
Everyone recognizes the msu name. I literally don't know where/what any other DO school is it what their names mean except pcom/ccom

I matched my no 1, acgme IM without a usmle

Do we really get free gym passes??? How come one of the MSUCHM students told me we had to pay?

 

[bajastapler]

From my experience at msu:

1st yr: msu is a research powerhouse, in bio grad programs. They have a complex of labs to work in on campus
2nd yr: class ended today, so you have 2+ months of board prep before clerkship.
3rd yr: state wide campus system where you can seamlessly roitate between hospitals. Many level 1s, hospitals with prison units(no doc for 40yrs because serving life sentences), and Michigan has the healthcare accessibility of a 2nd world nation, even in the state's capital. Also, the MD students are blocked from most hospitals, so its just you guys. There is literally every fellowship in the campus system except interventional pulm(UM doesn't have it either)
4th yr: 5 months of elective out of state rotations available. Seamless rotation application through the office.

Bonus: 3+ huge modern libraries on campus, cafeterias, free gym passes all 4yrs, cold winter=study all of the time and don't regret it.
Everyone recognizes the msu name. I literally don't know where/what any other DO school is it what their names mean except pcom/ccom

I matched my no 1, acgme IM without a usmle

great post! makes me want to pack my bags and go to MSUCOM! haha. *Also, I imagine being affiliated with pretty legit D1 sports is awesome

 

[Trogghunter]

Yeah you have to email whoever the 'fit for life' chair is and they'll set you up with a gym pass that's good for all of the gyms (3 on campus, 2 indoor pools, 1 outdoor pool) for free, all year.

OOS tuition does suck, but if you're single/have no financial obligations, then what does it matter? When you get accepted just tell them that you absolutely need the scholarship to attend. Worst case: they say no, but your acceptance won't be revoked. Just sell your desperation, really. Also, Lansing/east Lansing is really cheap. A gallon of milk is $2.69, there are food/drink specials literally everywhere/everyday, and if you're mid/early 20s then a college town is perfect.

 

[bionerd89]

Yeah you have to email whoever the 'fit for life' chair is and they'll set you up with a gym pass that's good for all of the gyms (3 on campus, 2 indoor pools, 1 outdoor pool) for free, all year.

OOS tuition does suck, but if you're single/have no financial obligations, then what does it matter? When you get accepted just tell them that you absolutely need the scholarship to attend. Worst case: they say no, but your acceptance won't be revoked. Just sell your desperation, really. Also, Lansing/east Lansing is really cheap. A gallon of milk is $2.69, there are food/drink specials literally everywhere/everyday, and if you're mid/early 20s then a college town is perfect.

I'm so glad to hear that the gym is free. How much do you think students usually spend on groceries each month?

 

[Trogghunter]

I'm so glad to hear that the gym is free. How much do you think students usually spend on groceries each month?

Idk, what kind of food do you eat? I spend like 150/200 but I eat the high quality stuff, and that includes wine. Mi is cheap for meat/veggies too

 

[pattr]

If you are SERIOUS about wanting to go to California for residency and future practice, you should go to Western. No question about it. Take a look at Western's match lists in previous years and you'll see tons of matches to California programs (especially in the more DO-friendly specialties: FM, IM, Psych, Peds, PM&R, Neuro) which are competitive even for MDs to get into.

MSUCOM is the most established/strongest school out of the three, but regional bias coming from MSUCOM won't help you get into a California residency.

 

[Dyerseve30]

MSUCOM is by far the best school out of these 3.

WesternU is in a ghetto and AZCOM is beyond expensive.

If you really are getting a scholarship to MSUCOM to reduce tuition to in-state costs, then I would 100% go there.

I went to MSU undergrad and was not accepted to MSUCOM so I'm quite jealous

 

[SpartanWolverine]

I'm so glad to hear that the gym is free. How much do you think students usually spend on groceries each month?

That is super nice to hear! I'm going to be living right next to a YMCA, though... so I dunno if the convenience of that will win me over. There's a Sam's Club in Lansing and Kroger all over the place ... so food is really pretty affordable. When I lived in Michigan, $50/wk covered groceries pretty well.

Sorry to derail this thread into a MSUCOM gym/food bonanza.

To be relevant: MSUCOM is my vote. As others have said, it's appealing due to the many connections that it has -- especially when it comes to third/fourth year locations.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I think state DO schools (except WVSOM) are in a tier above any established private.

If MSUCOM was not IS biased nor had crazy OOS tuition, they would probably have like 3.7/31 averages.

User3... sigh*

 

[Mad Jack]

This shouldn't even be a question. MSU without a doubt. They have the most funding, do the most research, have the largest network of residencies, and are in the most DO-friendly region of the three.

 

[Orthojoe]

AZCOM grad here- i find it hard to recommend AZCOM so Im glad you are thinking elsewhere. I agree that clerkships/rotations and relationship with residencies are really the most important factor with finances being thrown it as third. The first two years are really up to you and how well you study yourself. Most schools cover the same material. Its the 3/4th years that set the schools apart. AZCOM struggles in obtaining good quality 3/4th year rotations. I found most of my rotations myself because I was unhappy. As a side note I rarely attending class except for the required attendance courses(labs, etc). Most of the professors posted their lectures notes (ppt) a week in advance at AZCOM

Lastly - finances are huge. A 10K difference in tuition a year over 4 years, with a 3 year residency amounts to roughly 60K additional student loans. AS a family physician thats quite a lot of money. But also take into consideration the cost of living, not just tuition differences. It could easily amount to a 100K difference in student loans. trust me, i'm feeling the additional loans from AZCOM.

 

[sylvanthus]

Go to the cheapest school.

 

[nightfyre]

Hi everyone! I decided to go to MSUCOM! Go Spartans!

 

[Trogghunter]

Hi everyone! I decided to go to MSUCOM! Go Spartans!

Nice... FYI, get all of your hep vaccines, all vaccines/tb tests through the Olin/school clinic. The uphys office(same building 3rd floor) will charge you, but your school insurance covers them. The uphys doesn't take insurance for vaccines and they won't tell you, but the clinic downstairs in Olin does cover it. You'll see what I mean when you do vaccines, just make sure you're not paying. It'll save you a lot of $. You can also get vaccine titers, for free.