Need help with SMP decision making - 4 days to decide!

[FishForPhysician2019]

Hi Everyone, I'm new to this and I know this question has been asked before but it seems like people sometimes give good advice or have points I myself would have never thought of so I thought it wouldn't be a bad idea to see what you all think. TLDR at the bottom.

My Background: I graduated from a university of California school with a degree in Biopsychology in 2015 cGPA: 3.11, sGPA 2.95. Since then I have taken a few classes without much direction but have received a 4.0 in all 5 classes. My MCAT is a 507 (126/127/126/128) taken 1/2018. Since 2016 I have been scribing for ~4000 hours and have been a manager of a group of 35 scribes and 21 physicians for the past 1 year. Using all of this I applied to both MD and DO schools for the 2018-2019 cycle which was unsuccessful. Lastly I would like to note my path was a bit derailed when I moved home to be with my mom after my father's unexpected death in 2016, my home being in a rural area and requiring a ton of commuting for work and post bacc classes, followed by a bought of depression and a narcolepsy diagnosis. I finally feel the most solid I have since 2016 and am looking to more aggressively pursue my dream of being a physician.

My goal: to strengthen my GPA, Strengthen my command of the Sciences (since I have been out of the game so long), gain strong letters of Rec, and research experience all with the ultimate goal of applying to medical school after. I believe each of these would be more easily obtained by attending a graduate school and so Far I have applied to M.S. in Biomedical Sciences, Physiology, and Health Sciences but have NO clue what is the right decision.

My Ranking and Decision Making is Below, my top being Touro because it would be the easiest followed by Boston as a dream place I have always wanted to explore.

1. Touro University in Vallejo (MS Health Sciences) - Awaiting Decision
   1. Pros:
      1. Location: Close-ish to my current home meaning no relocation or rent.
      2. Research: Built into program
      3. Linkage: Guaranteed interview with med school if you do well.
      4. Tuition: 22K
      5. Class Size: 60
   2. Cons:
      1. Length: Somewhat of a short program, 1 year but less rigorous of a program so I think I could handle it.
      2. Commute to school
      3. Less name recognition.
2. Boston University MAMS - ADMITTED
   1. Pros:
      1. Well Established Program
      2. Length: 2 years gives me plenty of time to do well and not feel rushed through. I want quality from my experience and not just a shotgun solution to getting into medical school. Also this could give me more time to possibly retake the MCAT before retrying the Med school applications.
      3. Research: Included in Program
      4. Would be super fun to live in Boston
   2. Cons:
      1. Location: Far from home and High Rent Prices. Side Note: I haven’t been without my mom since my father passed, and I am most concerned for her. Also I have a new relationship which is amazing but thats super long distance and I won’t have much energy for that.
      2. Tuition: 55K
      3. Linkage: Not guaranteed but you are considered in a separate applicant pool when applying to med school
      4. Class size: 100, not sure if this is entirely a con for me but other people seem to think smaller the class size the better.
      5. May be difficult to shine in such rigorous program.
3. Cincinnati University (MS Physiology) - ADMITTED
   1. Pro
      1. Well established Program
      2. Location: Midway from home, rent super affordable.
      3. Linkage: 50% of their class gets admitted to medical school initially the first year of applying. Also has a high admittance rate to other Ohio Medical schools.
      4. Class Size: ~38
      5. Tuition: 39K
   2. Con
      1. Length: 11 months, I would feel rushed
      2. Research: Not included
      3. Could be incredibly difficult to shine at this program with a lot of gunners and a quick program since I didn’t do so hot initially in school and have been out of school for 4 years, basically.
4. Case Western Reserve (MS Medical Physiology) - Awaiting Decision
   1. Pro
      1. Location: Midway from home, rent super affordable.
      2. Length: 2 years gives me plenty of time to do well and not feel rushed through. I want quality from my experience and not just a shotgun solution to getting into medical school. Also this could give me more time to possibly retake the MCAT before retrying the Med school applications.
      3. Class Size: Small
      4. Research: Lots of opportunity
      5. Tuition: 22K
      6. Super interested in Physiology
      7. Name recognition
   2. Con
      1. Linkage: None
      2. Not a true SMP but still has great opportunities.

TLDR; How would you rank SMPs for Boston vs Cincinnati vs Touro California vs Case Western. Right now I am only officially admitted to Boston and Cincin and I HAVE to decide between the two in the next 4 days.

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[etp123]

There are lots of "gunners" at the Boston program too, you will face competition continuously no matter what program you go to and it will continue even through medical school. Also, Boston's program is going to be much more than 100 students I believe typically they have 160-180 students per class. I would say research is more important if you intend to be applying to medical schools that heavily emphasize research. Is there a way you can perhaps get research experience at Cincinnati? Maybe with faculty after you are done with the program? I'm also a bit confused by the "feeling rushed" thing because Cinci is 11 months of classes, right? Boston's program has a 2 year option however it is 1 year (9ish months) of classes and then 1 year of research... so comparably, the academic "pacing" of either program is the same. So if you do Cinci, if you can find research with the faculty after the program is over, that's basically the same as Boston, no?

Either way, both Boston and Cincinnati have good track records of getting their students into med schools and they are both known to be very supportive of their students. You can't really go wrong with either so I think your choice comes down to other considerations now, like affordability. By far Cincinnati will be way more affordable, like by a lot.

I know you say you haven't been admitted to Touro but one note about your family situation, now's as a good a time as ever to confront being away from your mother. Unfortunately California is incredibly competitive and the chances of you being able to stay in-state (close to her, nonetheless) are very, very slim... you will likely have to attend a med school far away and perhaps your residency program will be somewhere far away also. Make peace with the idea now and realize you can still stay in touch with her but if you are going to pursue medical school you must be serious and prioritize your journey.

 

[curbsideconsult]

I interviewed at Touro a few years ago and the students said they're graded on a curve. Assuming the grading policy hasn't changed, that would make the preclinical years of med school even more difficult than it already is.

 

[Osminog]

If you’re an Ohio resident, Cincinnati beats all of the other options by a mile. Your MCAT is within range at a few Ohio MD schools, plus you’d have a shot at OU-HCOM (DO, in-state tuition). A good SMP performance at Cincinnati would broaden your options to a greater extent than any of the other programs.

You’ll find ultra-gunners at every SMP program, because everyone is in sink-or-swim survival mode. It’s everybody’s final shot at a medical career. When the stakes are high, people become competitive.

Also, I see the relatively short length of Cincinnati’s program as a good thing. The longer the program, the more opportunities you have to fail at something and obliterate your GPA.

Why would you want to go to a McTouro DO school for SMP, when you can go to a well-established program? And Case Western’s program isn’t even an SMP, so don’t bother; it’s not worth the risk.

 

[Spiceupyourlife]

Hi Everyone, I'm new to this and I know this question has been asked before but it seems like people sometimes give good advice or have points I myself would have never thought of so I thought it wouldn't be a bad idea to see what you all think. TLDR at the bottom.

My Background: I graduated from a university of California school with a degree in Biopsychology in 2015 cGPA: 3.11, sGPA 2.95. Since then I have taken a few classes without much direction but have received a 4.0 in all 5 classes. My MCAT is a 507 (126/127/126/128) taken 1/2018. Since 2016 I have been scribing for ~4000 hours and have been a manager of a group of 35 scribes and 21 physicians for the past 1 year. Using all of this I applied to both MD and DO schools for the 2018-2019 cycle which was unsuccessful. Lastly I would like to note my path was a bit derailed when I moved home to be with my mom after my father's unexpected death in 2016, my home being in a rural area and requiring a ton of commuting for work and post bacc classes, followed by a bought of depression and a narcolepsy diagnosis. I finally feel the most solid I have since 2016 and am looking to more aggressively pursue my dream of being a physician.

My goal: to strengthen my GPA, Strengthen my command of the Sciences (since I have been out of the game so long), gain strong letters of Rec, and research experience all with the ultimate goal of applying to medical school after. I believe each of these would be more easily obtained by attending a graduate school and so Far I have applied to M.S. in Biomedical Sciences, Physiology, and Health Sciences but have NO clue what is the right decision.

My Ranking and Decision Making is Below, my top being Touro because it would be the easiest followed by Boston as a dream place I have always wanted to explore.

1. Touro University in Vallejo (MS Health Sciences) - Awaiting Decision
   1. Pros:
      1. Location: Close-ish to my current home meaning no relocation or rent.
      2. Research: Built into program
      3. Linkage: Guaranteed interview with med school if you do well.
      4. Tuition: 22K
      5. Class Size: 60
   2. Cons:
      1. Length: Somewhat of a short program, 1 year but less rigorous of a program so I think I could handle it.
      2. Commute to school
      3. Less name recognition.
2. Boston University MAMS - ADMITTED
   1. Pros:
      1. Well Established Program
      2. Length: 2 years gives me plenty of time to do well and not feel rushed through. I want quality from my experience and not just a shotgun solution to getting into medical school. Also this could give me more time to possibly retake the MCAT before retrying the Med school applications.
      3. Research: Included in Program
      4. Would be super fun to live in Boston
   2. Cons:
      1. Location: Far from home and High Rent Prices. Side Note: I haven’t been without my mom since my father passed, and I am most concerned for her. Also I have a new relationship which is amazing but thats super long distance and I won’t have much energy for that.
      2. Tuition: 55K
      3. Linkage: Not guaranteed but you are considered in a separate applicant pool when applying to med school
      4. Class size: 100, not sure if this is entirely a con for me but other people seem to think smaller the class size the better.
      5. May be difficult to shine in such rigorous program.
3. Cincinnati University (MS Physiology) - ADMITTED
   1. Pro
      1. Well established Program
      2. Location: Midway from home, rent super affordable.
      3. Linkage: 50% of their class gets admitted to medical school initially the first year of applying. Also has a high admittance rate to other Ohio Medical schools.
      4. Class Size: ~38
      5. Tuition: 39K
   2. Con
      1. Length: 11 months, I would feel rushed
      2. Research: Not included
      3. Could be incredibly difficult to shine at this program with a lot of gunners and a quick program since I didn’t do so hot initially in school and have been out of school for 4 years, basically.
4. Case Western Reserve (MS Medical Physiology) - Awaiting Decision
   1. Pro
      1. Location: Midway from home, rent super affordable.
      2. Length: 2 years gives me plenty of time to do well and not feel rushed through. I want quality from my experience and not just a shotgun solution to getting into medical school. Also this could give me more time to possibly retake the MCAT before retrying the Med school applications.
      3. Class Size: Small
      4. Research: Lots of opportunity
      5. Tuition: 22K
      6. Super interested in Physiology
      7. Name recognition
   2. Con
      1. Linkage: None
      2. Not a true SMP but still has great opportunities.

TLDR; How would you rank SMPs for Boston vs Cincinnati vs Touro California vs Case Western. Right now I am only officially admitted to Boston and Cincin and I HAVE to decide between the two in the next 4 days.

Just to add for Case:
Case's class size is actually ~150 (so not small). ~125 of them are on campus and the rest online. (I received a ton of emails from them and was considering applying to that program as well). If you get a 514 (I think) on the MCAT and a 3.5 in the program, you can get an interview for their med school.

 

[FishForPhysician2019]

There are lots of "gunners" at the Boston program too, you will face competition continuously no matter what program you go to and it will continue even through medical school. Also, Boston's program is going to be much more than 100 students I believe typically they have 160-180 students per class. I would say research is more important if you intend to be applying to medical schools that heavily emphasize research. Is there a way you can perhaps get research experience at Cincinnati? Maybe with faculty after you are done with the program? I'm also a bit confused by the "feeling rushed" thing because Cinci is 11 months of classes, right? Boston's program has a 2 year option however it is 1 year (9ish months) of classes and then 1 year of research... so comparably, the academic "pacing" of either program is the same. So if you do Cinci, if you can find research with the faculty after the program is over, that's basically the same as Boston, no?

Either way, both Boston and Cincinnati have good track records of getting their students into med schools and they are both known to be very supportive of their students. You can't really go wrong with either so I think your choice comes down to other considerations now, like affordability. By far Cincinnati will be way more affordable, like by a lot.

I know you say you haven't been admitted to Touro but one note about your family situation, now's as a good a time as ever to confront being away from your mother. Unfortunately California is incredibly competitive and the chances of you being able to stay in-state (close to her, nonetheless) are very, very slim... you will likely have to attend a med school far away and perhaps your residency program will be somewhere far away also. Make peace with the idea now and realize you can still stay in touch with her but if you are going to pursue medical school you must be serious and prioritize your journey.

Etp1234 Thank you for such a considerate answer, I really do appreciate it. I was hesitant towards idea of having to find a research position on my own at Cinci the year after the program ended, but I'm sure it is possible to do and would then pretty much mirror the Boston program; also I realized the pacing would be the same after I posted this. Considering this all I have started to become more comfortable with the idea of Cincinnati. I think in the end it is difficult to ditch the old pipe dream of living in Boston and go for a state/city I have never been to, but I need to do what is best for my future and Cincin offers a more defined path. My mom will support my choice regardless, just going to be a whirlwind of packing houses in the next month or so .

 

[FishForPhysician2019]

I interviewed at Touro a few years ago and the students said they're graded on a curve. Assuming the grading policy hasn't changed, that would make the preclinical years of med school even more difficult than it already is.

Thank you for the information, that is a great point

 

[FishForPhysician2019]

If you’re an Ohio resident, Cincinnati beats all of the other options by a mile. Your MCAT is within range at a few Ohio MD schools, plus you’d have a shot at OU-HCOM (DO, in-state tuition). A good SMP performance at Cincinnati would broaden your options to a greater extent than any of the other programs.

You’ll find ultra-gunners at every SMP program, because everyone is in sink-or-swim survival mode. It’s everybody’s final shot at a medical career. When the stakes are high, people become competitive.

Also, I see the relatively short length of Cincinnati’s program as a good thing. The longer the program, the more opportunities you have to fail at something and obliterate your GPA.

Why would you want to go to a McTouro DO school for SMP, when you can go to a well-established program? And Case Western’s program isn’t even an SMP, so don’t bother; it’s not worth the risk.

Thank you for the thoughtful input, it was very helpful! Great point about the Ohio schools if I am an Ohio resident, which I am not but I read can be established after 1 year and I plan to take more time than that. I agree that giving myself more time may give me just enough rope to hang myself with and should probably just do the coursework and find research after the program. And I actually was considering Case Western and Touro first because I started actually only looking for a masters of science, not an SMP per say, just wanted a graduate degree in science with physiology being of real interest to me and actually stumbled upon Cincinnati by Googling Masters of Physiology and Ohio because my boyfriend has friends and family near there

 

[FishForPhysician2019]

Just to add for Case:
Case's class size is actually ~150 (so not small). ~125 of them are on campus and the rest online. (I received a ton of emails from them and was considering applying to that program as well). If you get a 514 (I think) on the MCAT and a 3.5 in the program, you can get an interview for their med school.

Thank you! Yea I considered the program after actually listening to one of their alumni speak and I was seriously considering a masters in physiology. However after applying and finding that there were more programs out there with better benefits it kind of dropped in my ranking. They said to have linkage to their med school you have to have an MCAT of 514 which I don't have, could maybe get... but also a 3.5 in undergrad as well as a 3.5 in their program. I do not have a 3.5 undergrad so it has automatically counted me out of the consideration so no linkage for me

 

[DocJanItor]

As a former SMPer, my opinion is to enter a program that is as fast (or nearly so) as medical school will be. The reason for this is that it will prepare you for the pace and intensity that medical school studying will require. The difference between undergrad and a 1 year SMP program is significant. You're probably studying 3-5x more material in the same amount of time. The difference from the SMP to medical school is probably double that because you're doing school (even more so) AND other pre-clinical responsibilities (ethics, shadowing, OSCEs, etc.)

Giving yourself 2 years in order to have more time isn't a great strategy. You won't be able to have that option in medical school, so you're lulling yourself into a false sense of security. Of course it's important to perform well in the SMP in order to GET to medical school, but that won't do you much good if you can't handle the load once you're in.

Yes, Cincy is intense and full of competitive students, but that will be the case for medical school as well. I think of your list that Cincy is the best option even if you get accepted to other schools. You'll probably need to retake your MCAT after the program, but you will do so much better after the program due to all the better study strategies and new mental stamina that you'll develop.

 

[FishForPhysician2019]

As a former SMPer, my opinion is to enter a program that is as fast (or nearly so) as medical school will be. The reason for this is that it will prepare you for the pace and intensity that medical school studying will require. The difference between undergrad and a 1 year SMP program is significant. You're probably studying 3-5x more material in the same amount of time. The difference from the SMP to medical school is probably double that because you're doing school (even more so) AND other pre-clinical responsibilities (ethics, shadowing, OSCEs, etc.)

Giving yourself 2 years in order to have more time isn't a great strategy. You won't be able to have that option in medical school, so you're lulling yourself into a false sense of security. Of course it's important to perform well in the SMP in order to GET to medical school, but that won't do you much good if you can't handle the load once you're in.

Yes, Cincy is intense and full of competitive students, but that will be the case for medical school as well. I think of your list that Cincy is the best option even if you get accepted to other schools. You'll probably need to retake your MCAT after the program, but you will do so much better after the program due to all the better study strategies and new mental stamina that you'll develop.

Agreed, I may be kidding myself by trying to slowly re enter the system and I know I can preform well, I tend to forget that my previous schooling was done before I became comfortable and confident. Thank you!!

 

[Goro]

I interviewed at Touro a few years ago and the students said they're graded on a curve. Assuming the grading policy hasn't changed, that would make the preclinical years of med school even more difficult than it already is.

No school should be grading on a curve!