Need research for application, where/how? Please evaluate my history

[Moki1984]

Good afternoon.
I am considering applying for a PhD program in Clinical Psychology. It is at a local college, approximately a 40 minute drive so I am a resident. They offer a few routes to PhD with Psych; clinical, social, developmental and cognitive. It is the only school within driving distance of me and I cannot move.

I emailed admissions and they explained that my undergraduate grades would be looked at heavily, my GRE and research experience. My undergrad GPA is a 3.8 so I am good on this. I have not taken the GRE yet, I would need to study and work hard on this. Research is what I am wondering about, I don't have any. After completing my undergrad in 2012 (bachelors of science in psychology with a minor in biology) I immediately entered the workforce at an inpatient acute care psychiatric hospital. To put it simply, bills had to be paid and as I had become a single Mother/divorcee I did what I had to do. I have worked at the same hospital since 2012. One year as mental health technician then I was promoted to Patient Advocate where I have remained until right now. I have years worth of experience in this clinical setting and I have no doubt anyone I work with would write me a professional recommendation.

This is nice and I hope they would consider my years of experience and recommendations , but I fall short on research. I work full time right now, what type of research can I look into or where should I even look to try and find this? I work full time hours, of course I would leave this job if accepted into the program but I cannot leave my job right now. I could do this during evenings, weekends and possibly some daytime periodically as my boss is excellent and would allow me some leeway for this goal, provided it was not all the time.

I would appreciate any insight or advice into this you can offer. To summarize here are my questions:

1. Where to start looking for research experience and how many hours should I complete
2. Would my 7 years of experience in this clinical setting help me stand out or not really
3. Any other advice as I only have one school I can apply to if I go this route so I need to shine

Thank you!

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[WisNeuro]

I would appreciate any insight or advice into this you can offer. To summarize here are my questions:

1. Where to start looking for research experience and how many hours should I complete
2. Would my 7 years of experience in this clinical setting help me stand out or not really
3. Any other advice as I only have one school I can apply to if I go this route so I need to shine

Thank you!

1.) I'd ask about volunteering in labs at the University. It's not about absolute number of hours as it is about the experience gained and possibility to get in on tangible products (e.g., posters, papers).
2.) Not really. Most people come in with some clinical experience, none of it is really applicable to clinical psych above and beyond experience dealing with people. Because everyone has it, it is pretty much a wash.
3,) Best advice is to really evaluate your career wants. Being confined to one school, your chances are exceedingly slim of acceptance into that one clinical psych program.

You mention multiple routes to a PhD (clinical, social, developmental, cognitive). These are each very different career paths, what exactly is it that you want to do?

 

[PsyDr]

Only one of those will allow you to practice in a clinical setting. Everything else is a purely research career. Asking for

Clinical: You're likely competing against 50+ applicants with similar GPAs, clinical experience, AND they will have research experience. The faculty are almost undoubtedly looking for someone who is eager to help them with their specific line of research. The bigger point is: YOU WILL HAVE TO MOVE FOR INTERNSHIP AND/OR POSTDOC.

social/Developmental/Cognitive: A research program, looking at someone with zero research, vs. someone who has done research under someone they know.

1) As many as you think would make you outshine a bunch of eager 20 somethings, who will do whatever they're told, go wherever they need to, and who have shown that they have this passion under someone whom the application committee/PIs know. PIs talk.

2) No more than showing you have some minimal capacity to do that work. Schools want to teach you. Overemphasizing that you "already know" may be interpreted as showing that you are not open to the learner position.

3) You're competing against a group of people who have likley shown they are willing to do anything for one of those 5-10 positions. Most of that applicant pool will know the difference between a clinical psych PhD, and an academic one like cog/soc/dev. Now imagine you're on the committee. You don't want to be there. You likely want to get the hell out of this meeting ASAP. You've likely talked to the professors of your top picks, so you have some unofficial information. Sally, Joe, and Elizabeth applicants have a 4.0, research experience, a good reputation, they seem like they're eager, and they have shown that they understand the general process of a clinical PhD, including the need to move. That is who you are competing against. You can say it's not fair or whatever, but them's the breaks. Change it up for a job at a presitgus law firm. Do you take the Harvard grad who tells you , he/she is willing to move to the offices in Reykjavik if he/she can only get into your firm? Or do you take the state university graduate who tells you where they are willing to go, and btw, how much vacation do I get? Or do you take the state uni graduate who tells you he/she is willing to move to Rykjavik, work for $80k less than what's advertised for a year, just to have the chance to prove that he/she can bring in more revenue than you know what to do with?

 

[ClinicalABA]

...
Clinical: You're likely competing against 50+ applicants with similar GPAs, clinical experience, AND they will have research experience...
...

While technicallly PSYDR is correct in saying you'll be competing against "50+ applicants", the actual numbers are a little more daunting. From your profile info next to your post, it looks like you are in North Carolina. For the clinical psych Ph.D. programs in North Carolina, data on admissions ranged from 6 students out of 127 applicants admitted to UNC Charlotte to only 8 out of 547 applicants admitted to UNC (Chapel Hill). Clinical psych is HIGHLY competitve, and any limitation significantly reduces your chances. You currently have several limitations (e.g., no research; uncertainty regarding GREs; geographic limitations). Not being able to move is incredibly limiting, unfortunately.

I think, as others have stated, to first decide what it is you actually want to do. Clinical Ph.D. is only one path towards a career in the mental health treatment or research field. Looks like, in your area at least (and probably the same in most areas) it's a very difficult, highly competitive route, with most of the programs seeming to be less applied than research/academic. If you let us know what it is you think you want to do, we can give more specific (and hopefully more encouraging) feedback. If you don't know what you want to do, maybe we can give you some feedback that will help you figure that out.

 

[Seven_Costanza]

Good afternoon.
I am considering applying for a PhD program in Clinical Psychology. It is at a local college, approximately a 40 minute drive so I am a resident. They offer a few routes to PhD with Psych; clinical, social, developmental and cognitive. It is the only school within driving distance of me and I cannot move.

I emailed admissions and they explained that my undergraduate grades would be looked at heavily, my GRE and research experience. My undergrad GPA is a 3.8 so I am good on this. I have not taken the GRE yet, I would need to study and work hard on this. Research is what I am wondering about, I don't have any. After completing my undergrad in 2012 (bachelors of science in psychology with a minor in biology) I immediately entered the workforce at an inpatient acute care psychiatric hospital. To put it simply, bills had to be paid and as I had become a single Mother/divorcee I did what I had to do. I have worked at the same hospital since 2012. One year as mental health technician then I was promoted to Patient Advocate where I have remained until right now. I have years worth of experience in this clinical setting and I have no doubt anyone I work with would write me a professional recommendation.

This is nice and I hope they would consider my years of experience and recommendations , but I fall short on research. I work full time right now, what type of research can I look into or where should I even look to try and find this? I work full time hours, of course I would leave this job if accepted into the program but I cannot leave my job right now. I could do this during evenings, weekends and possibly some daytime periodically as my boss is excellent and would allow me some leeway for this goal, provided it was not all the time.

I would appreciate any insight or advice into this you can offer. To summarize here are my questions:

1. Where to start looking for research experience and how many hours should I complete
2. Would my 7 years of experience in this clinical setting help me stand out or not really
3. Any other advice as I only have one school I can apply to if I go this route so I need to shine

Thank you!

Why do you want the Clinical Psych PhD? If you’re interested in only doing therapy, I would definitely suggest looking at MSW programs that will allow you to do the same in a 3rd of the time the doctorate takes. It’ll take you at least 1-2 years before you have enough research experience to even be considered by a PhD program. Are you willing to put off starting a program for 3 years? Keep in mind that even if you put in that time, there is no guarantee that you’ll get accepted to your local program.

 

[Moki1984]

Thank you for the replies. I understand the limitations of not being able to relocate, for reasons which I won't share (private) it is not in the better interest of my family to do this.

You asked why I want this, what I want to do essentially. Please let me know your thoughts on this.

1. I want to stay within the field of psych, I have always felt a fascination in betting understanding the human psyche
2. I would like to teach, not necessarily as a full tenure professor but adjunct or even a community college to help adults preparing for their 4 year university
3. I would like to spend some of my working hours at home from my home office. Remote rolls fit me
4. I would like to offer therapy but not full-time.


If given the choice to work more hours in therapy or more hours teaching, I would opt for teaching.

I will also add this. I have been going back and forth for awhile on career options. I am sure most of you know stopping at the undergrad level in psych does not open a lot of doors. I need to make a move and start working towards something else, soon.

 

[WisNeuro]

To be quite honest, without being able to move, I'd consider other career options. The chances of getting into a single program, are pretty slim. Even if that were the case, the chances of matching at only an internship and postdoc in that same limited area, also slim. After that, if you want to teach, you either take an adjunct job making less per hour than you currently do, or you move.

In the end, especially if one wants an academic track, moving is necessary. Slightly easier if you just want to adjunct, but they pay is so terrible, that I would not advise that to anyone. If you were fine with just doing therapy, I'd echo the social work route, maybe you can find some adjunct work teaching other SWs, but you'd most likely still be doing mostly therapy.

 

[PsyDr]

Thank you for the replies. I understand the limitations of not being able to relocate, for reasons which I won't share (private) it is not in the better interest of my family to do this.

You asked why I want this, what I want to do essentially. Please let me know your thoughts on this.

1. I want to stay within the field of psych, I have always felt a fascination in betting understanding the human psyche
2. I would like to teach, not necessarily as a full tenure professor but adjunct or even a community college to help adults preparing for their 4 year university
3. I would like to spend some of my working hours at home from my home office. Remote rolls fit me
4. I would like to offer therapy but not full-time.


If given the choice to work more hours in therapy or more hours teaching, I would opt for teaching.

I will also add this. I have been going back and forth for awhile on career options. I am sure most of you know stopping at the undergrad level in psych does not open a lot of doors. I need to make a move and start working towards something else, soon.

So, you don't know that 3/4 degrees of the degrees you're considering won't allow you to do therapy. That demonstrates that you haven't done the most basic reading about how the educational process works. It's a 7+ year endeavor. Then you say you want to work from home. That's not therapy and it's not teaching. It's research. Which you have never done. Which is not done at the community college level.

You'd be well served in spending several days reading about the profession.

 

[EmotRegulation]

Check out clinicalpsychgradschool.org for a lot of information about clinical AND other programs in psychology.

 

[ClinicalABA]

Thank you for the replies. I understand the limitations of not being able to relocate, for reasons which I won't share (private) it is not in the better interest of my family to do this.

I can totally appreciate this- Though it certainly limits your educational and professional options, some of the most important and mature decisions we make in our live are those that benefit others (particularly our children). It's likely to mean that you are going to have to compromise on some of the things you list below

1. I want to stay within the field of psych, I have always felt a fascination in betting understanding the human psyche

You can gain a better understanding of the "human psyche" in fields of psychology other than clinical (in fact, you may find that a lot of clinical psych training is not actually focused on that). You may want to do some more clarification and investigation as to what you mean by "human psyche." Often, when people think of "the human psyche," it's more relevant to the work done by social psychologists. Social psychology is not typcially an applied field and grad study does not typically lead to licensure as a therapist. As you work to identify the specifics of what you are interested in, you may find that you are more interested in social, cognitive, neuroscience, etc. Be prepared, though, as these are very research heavy and research oriented fields, and it sounds like you don't have a lot of experience with that.

Also, you should be aware that A LOT of time in clinical psych Ph.D. programs is spent on things like learning statistics, research methods, etc., as well as techniques for assessment and therapy. It's not a lot of time discussing the human condition or the philosophical underpinnings of looser concepts (like "psyche"). Students are being trained to be reasearcher, clinicians, or both.

Outside of psychology, you may find that graduate study in social work or mental health counseling can meet this need for you. In general this terminates at the master's level, so less costs (financial and opportunity), and will lead to licensure to practice therapy. In general, pay is a little less than for psychologists and you can do less (for example, not much psychological assessment, if any), but lots of people make a real good living as clinical social workers. It's much more likely that you'd find a program (and then a job) near where you're located.

2. I would like to teach, not necessarily as a full tenure professor but adjunct or even a community college to help adults preparing for their 4 year university

College teaching, in psychology at least, is typically the realm of doctoral level folks. However, masters level instructors are often found teaching in social work or mental health counseling masters programs.

Outside of psychology, there are many academic fields that would allow you to teach. There are also many non-psychology/mental health fields that would allow you to "help adults preparing for their 4 year degree." Do some more research- if this is a primary goal of yours you might find that there are different avenues to a fulfilling career in some capacity at the community college level.

You mention adjuncting and (down below) part-time therapy work. I get the sense that you are not independently wealthy and would be doing all this to advance yourself professionally and financially. All this part time stuff is unlikely to come with benefits. I adjunct now for a few extra bucks, but get benefits through my full time clinical gig. Half-adjucnt, half therapist would be a pretty hard road, as neither would likely give you benefits and the adjunct pay- while nice as a relatively easy source of additional funds- ain't great for meeting day-to-day needs.

3. I would like to spend some of my working hours at home from my home office. Remote rolls fit me

I do some working from home (mainly report writing). You might be able to do some therapy out of an appropriate (know the laws!) home office, but it's not the norm and would definitely not allow you to do other things (like supervise a child!) at the same time. It's been my observation that the ability to do work from home is something that comes mid-to-later career. Teletherapy seems to be becoming more popular, but it's still in it's infancy and fraught with many regulatory and licensure related issues (see some recent threads on this board for more info on this).

4. I would like to offer therapy but not full-time.

There are non-doctoral psychology routes to do this. Most therapists/counselors are masters level clinicians. Do it right and you can make a decent living, but fee for services can be tricky and you need to be motivated, disciplined, and somewhat lucky to pull it off.

If given the choice to work more hours in therapy or more hours teaching, I would opt for teaching.

I'm going to suggest that you might not really know this yet. Either way, regardless of what you do you are going to need to remain flexible and may have to compromise on the ratio to be where you want to be financially.

I will also add this. I have been going back and forth for awhile on career options. I am sure most of you know stopping at the undergrad level in psych does not open a lot of doors. I need to make a move and start working towards something else, soon.

An undergrad in psych certainly ain't great as far as career options, but it can be the basis for a lot of different graduate level academic pursuits. In addition to psychology and mental health/social work, look at things like speech therapy, behavior analysis (a highly efficient route to a good salary, but I am a little biased), public health, and even nursing or medicine. As I and many others have mentioned, the doctoral psychology route is going to be long and rough and you have some pretty big hurdles to get over if that's the route you choose to pursue, However, you have many options. Remember, while most psychologists may be satisfied with their jobs and doing ok financially, most people who are satisfied with their jobs and doing well financially are not psychologists!

Best of luck at this excited point in your life!

 

[StellaB]

I second what everyone on here is saying. Psychology just isn't one of those fields where you go down to the local college. Almost everyone moves, multiple times, during the process of becoming a psychologist. BUT there are other ways to do what you want to do. If you really want to teach and do therapy, you can look into a doctoral program in SW or counseling. They will not result in your being called a "psychologist," but they do result in career paths in which you can teach and do therapy. Assessment is really the only area that is limited to psychologists, and I didn't see that on your list of things you wish you could do.

I will also add that you need to be very careful about how much debt you take on in any path you choose. What you want to do sounds like a nice work life, but not necessarily terribly lucrative. In general psychologists don't make much. We have one of the worst jobs when it comes to the severe barriers to entry in the field, and crummy payout on the other side. To do what you say you want to do for a living, you should be trying to figure out how to do it with no debt at the end, if at all possible.

 

[Sendtrees]

I feel for the OP--she asked for suggestions on improving research experience and got a bucket of cold water, instead. Unfortunately, I agree with everything people have said. It is extremely unlikely that even with two to three years of research experience, you will get into a single program. Then you'd just probably have to move for internship anyway. Please do all the reading and thinking suggested here. And I'll add to that, do not give up on the good program only to choose an online "PhD program" that will allow you to not relocate...because it also will not allow you to have any kind of career. This degree has a huge barrier to entry! Good luck thinking through next steps!