Negatives of Carribean?

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BubbaGump187

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Hi Can anyone describe for me how a person Holding a Carribean MD is disadvantaged in comparison to a person with US MD?

Assuming they obtained similar residencies....

In what situations would the Carribean MD be a disadvantage?
private practice?
hospital practice?
social stigma between colleagues?
patients who question your abilities?

anything else im missing?

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The main ones are:

  • Less competitive than a US grad even with higher stats for residency
  • Outright rejection for interviews from a significant minority of more prestigious residency programs
  • Some specialties will be off limits due to being a Carib grad. They generally (i.e. 99% of the time) include derm, ortho, optho, plastics etc.
 
The main ones are:

  • Less competitive than a US grad even with higher stats for residency
  • Outright rejection for interviews from a significant minority of more prestigious residency programs
  • Some specialties will be off limits due to being a Carib grad. They generally (i.e. 99% of the time) include derm, ortho, optho, plastics etc.

The stigma follows you throughout your career. Licensing in each state is more of a hassle as the application is diferent or has many more attached pages. Some private practices will not interview or consider Carib grads. McGill said it best with the residency issues. I was very competitive coming out of SGU, but found out from the program secretary after the match that the PD listed Carib grads after US grads on the ROL/match list. THat took me out of my first choice by 40 slots for no other reason.

Skin, bones, eyes, brains, and boobs do not happen for Carib grads without mitigating circumstances. Is your uncle the PD? Did you co-author the textbook they use? THe 1% figure seems right. THe problem with lucrative positions is that they attract a group of applicants looking for status and not because of the love of the game. My brother in law is a DO just finishing his Derm residency. I think he has 3 extra years in research just to get the spot becuase of his love for the field and determination. He would have been a great GI, Cardio, or whatever else- but he wanted skin.
 
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The stigma follows you throughout your career. Licensing in each state is more of a hassle as the application is diferent or has many more attached pages. Some private practices will not interview or consider Carib grads. McGill said it best with the residency issues. I was very competitive coming out of SGU, but found out from the program secretary after the match that the PD listed Carib grads after US grads on the ROL/match list. THat took me out of my first choice by 40 slots for no other reason.

Skin, bones, eyes, brains, and boobs do not happen for Carib grads without mitigating circumstances. Is your uncle the PD? Did you co-author the textbook they use? THe 1% figure seems right. THe problem with lucrative positions is that they attract a group of applicants looking for status and not because of the love of the game. My brother in law is a DO just finishing his Derm residency. I think he has 3 extra years in research just to get the spot becuase of his love for the field and determination. He would have been a great GI, Cardio, or whatever else- but he wanted skin.

WOW you seem bitter!

Yes there can be a hassle depending on the school, some schools are lazy and hold up verification, (I'm afraid SJSM will do this) FMG is bad allaround for top positions but I know of several to get the Golden Residencies its not impossible just difficult.

Thing is you have to want those, I do not just FP so for me Caribbean is not that much of a deal.

Look at what you really want.:rolleyes:
 
Bitter? Just a realist.
SGU 2000
IM at UVA prelim
PMR at EVMS
Pain at Emory
Private practice in Athens x1yr
Asst PD at Emory July 06-May 07
Private Practice now.
 
Bitter? Just a realist.
SGU 2000
IM at UVA prelim
PMR at EVMS
Pain at Emory
Private practice in Athens x1yr
Asst PD at Emory July 06-May 07
Private Practice now.

Yeah I know you did well, I also agree you have to bust your butt from the Carib, there is no free ride, oh and your not a Doc until the Fat lady sings......Getting accepted into a Carib program is nothing...........
 
Bitter? Just a realist.
SGU 2000
IM at UVA prelim
PMR at EVMS
Pain at Emory
Private practice in Athens x1yr
Asst PD at Emory July 06-May 07
Private Practice now.

I always take posts from people with a lot more experience and especially from people who have done well with much greater relevance than current med students or pre-meds who may not know the bigger picture, so thank you for your informative post
 
there is no free ride anywhere. You have to work your butt off at any medical school.
 
But my real question is...if I just want to be IM ....and I get into that residency.


How big is the difference once ur out and practicing?
Is it a lot of private practices that wont consider you..or is it like 1/1000.

any other problems?

What do you think about non-carribean Foreign Medical Schools...are they faced with similar stigma or is it less WHEN THEY ARE out IN PRACTICE?
 
But my real question is...if I just want to be IM ....and I get into that residency.


How big is the difference once ur out and practicing?
Is it a lot of private practices that wont consider you..or is it like 1/1000.

any other problems?

What do you think about non-carribean Foreign Medical Schools...are they faced with similar stigma or is it less WHEN THEY ARE out IN PRACTICE?

Well IM is about the easiest to get into

FMG is FMG, This stigma thing really goes away mostly with residency, I do not agree with Dr. Lobel that it continues, I knew plenty Carib grads when I was an RN.
 
The stigma follows you throughout your career. Licensing in each state is more of a hassle as the application is diferent or has many more attached pages. Some private practices will not interview or consider Carib grads. McGill said it best with the residency issues. I was very competitive coming out of SGU, but found out from the program secretary after the match that the PD listed Carib grads after US grads on the ROL/match list. THat took me out of my first choice by 40 slots for no other reason.

Skin, bones, eyes, brains, and boobs do not happen for Carib grads without mitigating circumstances. Is your uncle the PD? Did you co-author the textbook they use? THe 1% figure seems right. THe problem with lucrative positions is that they attract a group of applicants looking for status and not because of the love of the game. My brother in law is a DO just finishing his Derm residency. I think he has 3 extra years in research just to get the spot becuase of his love for the field and determination. He would have been a great GI, Cardio, or whatever else- but he wanted skin.

Steve is right, I'm sorry I went to the Caribbean. I wish I had went to a "real" US school. WHAT WAS I THINKING!! I just wasted 200K for nothing. I should have at least tried a few times for a US school. Please dont make the mistake I made, Try as long as it takes to stay in the United States even if it takes a few more years.
SM
 
Steve is right, I'm sorry I went to the Caribbean. I wish I had went to a "real" US school. WHAT WAS I THINKING!! I just wasted 200K for nothing. I should have at least tried a few times for a US school. Please dont make the mistake I made, Try as long as it takes to stay in the United States even if it takes a few more years.
SM

I'm sorry you went to the Caribbean as well. It makes me look bad.

:D:laugh::D
 
There are problems with going down to the Caribbean? ;) Who knew!!!!!
 
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Anyone else?

please!!!!!!!!!!! its a hard decision
 
If so, what was the problem? your GPA, MCATS?? My advice....keep trying with US but if you continue to be denied or can't even get an interview...Caribbean is your route....there are plenty of Caribbean grads that got into the residency they wanted and went on to to do fine...don't let everyone scare you....it is ALL not bad....many sucess stories....you will have to work your BUTT off...but it's worth it....good luck!!:)
 
Fine Heres the dreaded list of Known negatives of Caribbean:

1. Harder to get the competitive residencies ( in some years no one will get into the competitive ones from the Caribbean)
2. More fail out then in the USA
3. You have to work 5 to 10x harder to pass and pass the USMLE it is up to you to learn no hand holding
4. You may have funding problems ( hence the Sallie Mae pull out) There are only 2 lenders for Private loans at this time, Teri and Health loans express.
5. You will be a FMG forever and some states are not friendly at all to non US Docs.:rolleyes:
 
You could either stay in the US and keep spending thousands of dollars year after year in the application process or you could just go to the Carribean and get it over with. Take a look at the residency placements of SGU and Ross students.. it looks go to me.
 
oldpro- are you a student at a carribean school
- everything you list is a negative during school..what are the negatives after school?

what states are unfriendly to FMG? and please define what the word unfriendly means

does this mean you have to fill out more paperwork...or does this mean they will be reluctant to hire you
??
 
Yes, he is a Carib med student.

The consensus is that after residency, your medical school matters as much as your high school after university.

In other words, once in residency, you control your destiny. Obviously, there is going to be prejudice, but that is nothing new.

-Certain specialties do not like to hire women
-Certain places do not want ethnic minorities or muslim people
-Certain places will not hire ugly people or obese people
-Certain places will not hire you if you are not Jewish
-Certain places only hire from the Ivey Leagues

Going to the Carib is the least of your worries. You, as a physician, determine your success.

Texas, Cali, Utah, Idaho (etc) give non-LCME grads a harder time getting a license, but if you do your homework and get the proper paperwork done, you will not have a problem.


oldpro- are you a student at a carribean school
- everything you list is a negative during school..what are the negatives after school?

what states are unfriendly to FMG? and please define what the word unfriendly means

does this mean you have to fill out more paperwork...or does this mean they will be reluctant to hire you
??
 
How hard would it be to match into EM coming from one of the Big 4??
 
How hard would it be to match into EM coming from one of the Big 4??

if you go to the websites of the four 50-state Carib schools, there are a good number (6-12) that match into EM every year. It is not easy but you can score a residency if you work hard and do well on step 1/step 2 and the interview.
 
oldpro- are you a student at a carribean school
- everything you list is a negative during school..what are the negatives after school?

what states are unfriendly to FMG? and please define what the word unfriendly means

does this mean you have to fill out more paperwork...or does this mean they will be reluctant to hire you
??

Texas
Kansas
Tennessee

To name three I know of

The state does not hire you, but you have to get the board to give you a License to practice medicine in that state.

Look I have been around for over 3 years and did my homework and still have had ups and downs going to a Caribbean Medical school...........

Bottom line if you cannot take the heat of this then stay away.

Stay in the US, Wal-Mart needs people, the Hospital needs Nursing assistants and the Ambulance needs drivers, what I'm saying is that this takes dedication, yeah you all claim to have it but you gotta just DO IT!

DO not go to the Caribbean thinking that getting into a Medschool makes you a Doctor, you have to study, pass and then Pass the USMLE then get a residency.............................get licensed in a state you like
 
Where is the positives side of the caribbean thread.

1. It was sunny and warm all year (our wet season was not all that wet)
and I had friends at Syracuse hikingup and down the habitrails with 0 deg weather.

2. The education at SGU was enough to put my group of MS3's well above that of US students on rotations at St Barnabus in Livingston NJ. We thought those guys were coasting the whole time, they just weren't dedicated.

3. If I wanted to de-stress, I headed over to Colin and Sue Folan's bar for a few beers and a proper English meal. I'd avoid blood sausage being from NJ and all, but the bangers and mash was excellent. If I did not want to drink, we had hashes to run in (although we always drank at the end (Hash House Harriers)) google it. I did get some good scuba diving in, hiked into an active volcano, did some fishing, hung out with the politcally connected folks and went to some awesome parties up in the mountains and on the beach. Ifyou have never tried crips, don't. It is pilot whale blubber with lime sauce.

4. I did not match into my residency position, I called ahead and took a spot outside the match. Mistake, but hey- 20/20 hindsight. Got the best fellowship spot in the country for what I wanted to be doing. Now I'm doing it. I hope to work with the alumni association to start doing interviews, open houses, lectures, rotations, etc.
 
Where is the positives side of the caribbean thread.

1. It was sunny and warm all year (our wet season was not all that wet)
and I had friends at Syracuse hikingup and down the habitrails with 0 deg weather.

2. The education at SGU was enough to put my group of MS3's well above that of US students on rotations at St Barnabus in Livingston NJ. We thought those guys were coasting the whole time, they just weren't dedicated.

3. If I wanted to de-stress, I headed over to Colin and Sue Folan's bar for a few beers and a proper English meal. I'd avoid blood sausage being from NJ and all, but the bangers and mash was excellent. If I did not want to drink, we had hashes to run in (although we always drank at the end (Hash House Harriers)) google it. I did get some good scuba diving in, hiked into an active volcano, did some fishing, hung out with the politcally connected folks and went to some awesome parties up in the mountains and on the beach. Ifyou have never tried crips, don't. It is pilot whale blubber with lime sauce.

4. I did not match into my residency position, I called ahead and took a spot outside the match. Mistake, but hey- 20/20 hindsight. Got the best fellowship spot in the country for what I wanted to be doing. Now I'm doing it. I hope to work with the alumni association to start doing interviews, open houses, lectures, rotations, etc.

Where was Colin and Sue Folan's bar? I never heard of it all the time I was in Grenada.
But I did do all the other stuff you mentioned, like the hashes (with drinking), some snorkeling, and the hiking into the volcano in St. Vincent.
 
lobelsteve, could you explain why you taking a spot outside the match was a mistake? Do you think you could have matched at a better program for you, or is it something else? I'm starting in August and am curious about your statement.

Thanks
 
lobelsteve, could you explain why you taking a spot outside the match was a mistake? Do you think you could have matched at a better program for you, or is it something else? I'm starting in August and am curious about your statement.

Thanks

Location, location, location. THe program was having some administrative difficulties at that time. Long story, book to follow.

Nothing wrong with going outside the match depending on where you decide to go.
 
Location, location, location. THe program was having some administrative difficulties at that time. Long story, book to follow.

Nothing wrong with going outside the match depending on where you decide to go.

OK, that's what I had heard but wasn't sure if I was reading your post correctly. Thanks for the reply:thumbup::thumbup:
 
Does anyone think that there is extra stigma associated with carribean FMG MD vs another FMG MD such as from israel?

or are they viewed equally?
 
Does anyone think that there is extra stigma associated with carribean FMG MD vs another FMG MD such as from israel?

or are they viewed equally?

The same. It is easier to get into Israeli med schools because no one wants to go to a middle east desert war zone to study medicine.

The only IMGs with better reputations are European ones or people who are already leaders in their fields in their home country.
 
actually schools such as Sackler are much harder to get into!
 
actually schools such as Sackler are much harder to get into!

yeah Sackler and Tech are harder to get into.

DONT GO TO THE CARIBBEAN. PLEASE DONT GO PLEASE DONT GO.

U WILL NOT BECOME A MD. ITS BETTER IN THE UNITED STATES OR CANADA!
 
actually schools such as Sackler are much harder to get into!

Not for Americans. All you have to tell them is that you want to do your Aliyah to Israel and they go googoo for you.

The standards are the same as the 50-state Carib schools. Doesn't matter anyway since you would have to know enough Hebrew, Russian and Arabic to understand your patients in hospital rotations.
 
Y'all know that a lot of the "negatives" mentioned here are more due to the students themselves than the school, right?

self study..........cause of the school
work harder........cause of the school and the student both
Harder to get competitive residencies..........cause of FMG
Fail the USMLE.........cause of the student
Fail out of th medschool..........cause of the student
School loses loan..........may be the school or just like Sallie Mae, the curse of the Caribbean

Your future is not as secure in the Caribbean as in the US, plain and simple but one thing to remember many of us could not get into a US school, some would never have, in the end if we work hard and do well then we become MD's
 
With all due respect guys, cry me a river...
violin.gif


At least you can return to your home country to practice unlike us dog-sledders.:oops:
 
self study..........cause of the school
work harder........cause of the school and the student both
Harder to get competitive residencies..........cause of FMG
Fail the USMLE.........cause of the student
Fail out of th medschool..........cause of the student
School loses loan..........may be the school or just like Sallie Mae, the curse of the Caribbean

Your future is not as secure in the Caribbean as in the US, plain and simple but one thing to remember many of us could not get into a US school, some would never have, in the end if we work hard and do well then we become MD's

OldPro is so right. If you go to the Carib you will regret it the rest of your life. Do you want to have those regrets? NO! Do you wanna become a "REAL" MD? YES.

Ask yourself these questions. You might try getting a Masters degree then Reapply to a US school. You can do it!
 
I have no regrets coming from a Caribbean school. But what do I know, I'm just an emergency medicine intern. However, from what I've heard so far, IMG's graduating from EM residency have no trouble obtaining lucrative positions. Academics is always a little tougher in some places but if that's your thing, it's as "simple" as doing some quality research in residency or doing a fellowship.

This isn't to say that one should consider Caribbean as their first choice. U.S. med schools should be anyone's first choice if they plan on practicing in the U.S.
 
By looking at the matchlist for St. Georges it looks like over 80% match.

Is this a correct statistic or not? If it isnt can someone please give me the correct one?
 
By looking at the matchlist for St. Georges it looks like over 80% match.

Is this a correct statistic or not? If it isnt can someone please give me the correct one?

SGU claims a 95%+ match rate. That includes prematches.
 
Why are you so negative...nothing personal but I note that most of your post are negative?? are you unhappy?? what is the deal?? thanks:)
 
To the OP:

Well, you have heard a lot of negative stuff about the Caribbean. I can't deny that being a US grad versus a Caribbean grad will be an advantage in securing a residency, especially a more competitive kind, and in obtaining licensure. This is why most of us will tell you to try to secure a spot in a US med school first. If that doesn't pan out, then apply to the Caribbean.
That being said, if you end up going to the Caribbean, you can obtain a residency if you are willing to work at it. That means that you strive to obtain high Scores on Step 1 and Step 2, impress the hell out of your attendings on clinical rotations, and get excellent letters of recommendation.
Also, when you apply for residency, apply broadly so you'll increase your chances of getting more interviews, and, in the end, matching. Being from the Caribbean, you probably won't get anything like derm or plastics, but plenty of Caribbean grads match into the primary care specialties. There are also Caribbean grads who match into moderately competitive specialties like general surgery, EM, or anesthesia.
And no, I do not regret going to the Caribbean. I thought I obtained a good education from SGU. Also, it was a great opportunity to study abroad and gain a different perspective.
 
Why are you so negative...nothing personal but I note that most of your post are negative?? are you unhappy?? what is the deal?? thanks:)

I think you are confusing the word "negative" with "extremely intelligent."

Thank you for that compliment.:thumbup:
 
I notice you are still a student....what year?? You post alot and most if not all are very informative post, and to the point. Thanks for your contibution on these forums:D!!
 
To the OP:

Well, you have heard a lot of negative stuff about the Caribbean. I can't deny that being a US grad versus a Caribbean grad will be an advantage in securing a residency, especially a more competitive kind, and in obtaining licensure. This is why most of us will tell you to try to secure a spot in a US med school first. If that doesn't pan out, then apply to the Caribbean.
That being said, if you end up going to the Caribbean, you can obtain a residency if you are willing to work at it. That means that you strive to obtain high Scores on Step 1 and Step 2, impress the hell out of your attendings on clinical rotations, and get excellent letters of recommendation.
Also, when you apply for residency, apply broadly so you'll increase your chances of getting more interviews, and, in the end, matching. Being from the Caribbean, you probably won't get anything like derm or plastics, but plenty of Caribbean grads match into the primary care specialties. There are also Caribbean grads who match into moderately competitive specialties like general surgery, EM, or anesthesia.
And no, I do not regret going to the Caribbean. I thought I obtained a good education from SGU. Also, it was a great opportunity to study abroad and gain a different perspective.
Could not have said it better. While there absolutely are some negatives about attending a caribbean school such as SGU, Ross, or AUC, in my experience it has been the ones who have focused on the negatives who tend to do less well....however you define that...ie. letting where you go to school dictate what you are willing to accept with respect to residency etc.

As TopGun notes, and as has been repeated time and again on these forums, Plastics et al. are for all intensive purposes out of the realm of the carib. grad. But there are still many great fields available to the FMG. Some more competitive than others, yes, but all within range with the right step scores ( a fxn. of the individuals capacity for memory retention and exam prowess ), and the ability to sell well at interview/ audition rotation etc. Applying broadly is a must particularly when applying to fields such as Radiology, Surgery, or EM.

Once in residency, your medical school is of little consequence. You are doctor 001, pgy1, and your buddy, Jeff, from SUNY-upstate COM, is doctor 002, pgy1 etc., and when you go to fellowship interviews your residency evaluations, and letters from your residency director hold the most weight, along with research during residency ( esp. in fields like cards. ). Imho these things fall within the purview of the individual and not the school.

Just a quick reminder of some of the options open to carib. grads coming out of these residencies:

IM - GI, Cards, Interventional Cards, Nephro, Heme/Onc, Electrophysiology, Pulm/ICU...

Surgery - Pediatric, cardiac, trauma, vascular, transplant...

Anesthesia - Pain, ICU, Peds, Cardiac...

Peds - Neonatology, Peds Neuro., Peds cardio.

Radiology - Msk, Interventional, Neuro, Neurointerventional, MRI...

EM - sports medicine

FP - sports medicine

OB/GYN - REI ($$$$), Gyn Onc, Maternal Fetal Medicine (MFM)

And so on.....
 
I notice you are still a student....what year?? You post alot and most if not all are very informative post, and to the point. Thanks for your contibution on these forums:D!!


I'd prefer not to say. I like my privacy.

Thank you, though.
 
If you are an IMG regardless of where you went Europe, Aussie, Caribbean, it will be harder to match into a competitive specialty. After residency you are on equal terms with US graduates who completed the same post grad training. My pediatrician when I was a kid came from India, and he is still practicing and doing quite well. The real disadvantage for Caribbean graduates maybe academic medicine. The bigger Caribbean schools have been around for a while and people still go to them. You will still be a doctor and thinking about how poor this world is, that is a big achievement.
 
If you are an IMG regardless of where you went Europe, Aussie, Caribbean, it will be harder to match into a competitive specialty. After residency you are on equal terms with US graduates who completed the same post grad training. My pediatrician when I was a kid came from India, and he is still practicing and doing quite well. The real disadvantage for Caribbean graduates maybe academic medicine. The bigger Caribbean schools have been around for a while and people still go to them. You will still be a doctor and thinking about how poor this world is, that is a big achievement.

Exactly, it will be much harder to match. I would say the best advice is try to stay in the United States. Do you want to really go to some dirt bag country? No way! there's tons of roaches and nothing but misery. STAY IN THE STATES!
 
A lot of people are posting answers to "How hard is it to get a residency if you're an IMG" question. Which it is harder to get one. If you are the #1 or #2 person in your class you have 245+ on both steps and you have some research and you are not a choad you have a 50/50 shot at derm/plastics/ortho/neurosurg and are a lock for mid-level competitive residencies. If you beat the mean on both steps, have decent grades, good LORs, interview well and apply to >30 programs and interview at 10 you will probably get surg/EM/gas are are a lock for all but the top tier FM/IM/Peds/psych programs. If you barely pass everything and you cast a wide net (ie apply to a lot of programs) you will probably get FM/IM/peds/psych somewhere, if you interview enough.

However, the OP wanted to know assuming you already had a residency. So, to the OP: Once you're a resident nobody cares where you went to medical school. Period. I matched EM and I tell people that I went to AUC and 99.999% of them --Faculty, staff, residents, med-students, nurses, techs, environmental srvcs, IT, HR etc...-- all say, "Awesome! How was the Caribbean?" I say, "Pretty cool, but I knew I wanted EM so I had to work a little harder than the average guy, but all in all I would do it again." Then they ask me, "Why did you go there?" I say, "It's really hard to get into medical school in the States, they screen candidates really hard to weed out potential bad apples. Caribbean medical schools have lower entry standards and rely on attrition to weed people out." "Oh." Then our conversation moves on to the topic at hand.

It's been said before, but once you graduate medical school people care about your medical school about as much as when you're in college people care about your high school.

My name badge says, "MD". My license says, "MD". I introduce myself as a doctor. Once you're in a residency, no one cares about where you went to medical school. They care about what kind of doctor you are, how professional you are, how much you study, how efficient you are, what % of conference you attend, your satisfaction rating, how well you perform on in-service exams, your evaluations, whether you have signed all your charts and orders. Where you went to school is nothing more than a mere curiosity.

If there are any PD's or headhunters on here that want to correct me, please feel free.
 
A lot of people are posting answers to "How hard is it to get a residency if you're an IMG" question. Which it is harder to get one. If you are the #1 or #2 person in your class you have 245+ on both steps and you have some research and you are not a choad you have a 50/50 shot at derm/plastics/ortho/neurosurg and are a lock for mid-level competitive residencies. If you beat the mean on both steps, have decent grades, good LORs, interview well and apply to >30 programs and interview at 10 you will probably get surg/EM/gas are are a lock for all but the top tier FM/IM/Peds/psych programs. If you barely pass everything and you cast a wide net (ie apply to a lot of programs) you will probably get FM/IM/peds/psych somewhere, if you interview enough.

Excellent summation. You should just cut and paste that every time someone asks a question about IMG residency chances.:thumbup:
 
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