Nephrology fellowship 2020-21/ Temple nephrology

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Hemodynamicsitis

New Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2019
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Starting a new thread for nephrology 2020-21, did not see one (please direct me to one if I missed it). I recently came to know from one of our year 3 IM residents that due to COVID19 pandemic, almost all fellowship interviews this year are virtual, and that most applicants are trying to stay in the same geographical area/ interviewing with programs where they did residencies/ medical school before. I personally felt that visiting a program and interviewing with 6-7 faculty members, and spending time at lunch/ hospital tour with the fellows was helpful for me in getting a sense of the culture of the section, back when I was an applicant and trying to find the right program for myself (especially during fellowship interviews, given the much smaller program size than the IM residency program ones - which makes one work far more closely with faculty). In view of this information and in spirit of trying to share information and experiences on SDN (which has been helpful to me over the last decade - I think there is great value to experiences/ feedback from people that have been in similar situations previously) to offer some insight to the applicants in these uncertain times, I am writing regarding nephrology programs in Philadelphia (compounded by Hahnemann hospital closure in July 2019).

In general, any US IM residency trained physician (especially fresh residency graduates, and those practicing as hospitalists for ~ 5 years) can easily match into their top nephrology program, and are highly sought after applicants for middle tier programs in nephrology (nationally ranked below 20). In Philadelphia, Penn and Jefferson have been leading the city-wide nephrology trainee education initiatives, and have been the preferred programs. Given the extreme difficulty with candidate recruitment for nephrology, most middle tier programs have been taking fellows that do not have IM residency training in the US (mostly senior physicians from foreign countries looking to get into training system in the US since they are several years out of medical school and most IM residency programs don't match them). In this setting, the remaining programs in Philadelphia (Einstein, Hahnemann and Temple) have been competing for fellows from the greater Philadelphia area mostly by reducing night calls/ weekend calls / coverage requirements assigned to fellows (Einstein has no night calls for fellows, several programs have two physicians cover the weekend/ rather than fellow coverage every weekend, most programs have NPs covering the chronic nephrology service etc, in some ways it makes sense to have the busiest services covered by fellows 70-80% of the time rather than not matching any fellow in match - common for nephrology). Hahnemann had a large nephrology section (used to also recruit non IM trained physicians to fill spots) but closed last year. Which brings me to the remaining program - Temple. There is minimum commitment to fellowship program as of this year. Given the painfully unstable nature of this transition, and other red flags of several faculty members leaving over the last two years (including previous program director, 4 out of 5 new faculty hired in 2018, some seasoned nephrologists retiring and some upcoming retirements), it would be a very unwise move to settle for this program at least for the next two to three years (I personally find this situation to the extreme detriment of any serious fellows/ genuinely interested faculty that are still in the section, and hope that they can recruit decent replacement faculty in the next few years, that can help improve the situation). In this setting, the fellowship program is obviously not a priority and has been suffering in many ways, there is no attention paid to trainee goals, no procedure training over the entire last year (except transplant biopsies), no focus on basic house keeping even (poor transitions of care, no jeopardy system, no research output with graduating fellows), very poor standards of work and an overall climate of reluctant engagement with trainees by mostly stressed/ scattered faculty (some have been leaving/ others are burnt out), and the overall culture with all the above problems is negligent and at times toxic. For most IM trained physicians applying to nephrology (IMGs and AMGs), the vast majority of other programs across the nation would be better, and can help them have decent fellowship experiences.

Members don't see this ad.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Please don’t pretend that this is a new thread to “help” applicants when it’s just a thread to bash a particular program...did they not take you?
 
Not here to argue. Just information sharing. If you do plan to apply to nephrology, make sure you can stomach the outcome if it doesn't work out
down the road.


Troubled specialty
Prior to the pandemic, nephrology had already lost much of its glitter as a specialty when compared to other internal medicine subspecialties. The nephrology match program in 2020 was 62%, meaning 38% of the positions remained unfilled or were filled by candidates coming from the supplemental offer and acceptance program.1 The number of candidates filling slots has remained stable but the number of nephrologists going into private practice is continually diminishing (70.3% of fellows in 2011 vs. 51.5% in 2018).2 A significant number of international medical graduates represent 69% of fellows, but they have visa issues that require them to work in underserved areas (J-1 visa) or with an academically affiliated hospital (H1b). There also appears to be more fellows albeit a small number, who have no internal medicine training in the United States. Thus, they are ineligible to take nephrology boards.

Additionally, many nephrology fellows have an eye toward working as hospitalists or as critical care physicians due to better initial compensation, scheduling and lifestyle reasons. According to the Medscape 2020 Physician Salaries Report, nephrology has the lowest percentage of practicing physicians among all specialties (at 44%) who feel they are fairly compensated.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Members don't see this ad :)
Please don’t pretend that this is a new thread to “help” applicants when it’s just a thread to bash a particular program...did they not take you?
I made myself a principle not to engage with internet trolls. You sound annoyed. I had completed my training a while ago. The idea behind sharing experiences is that they are a person's observations and assessments, you are welcome to make your own by investing time and labor, and then share your experiences and conclusions that you derive. Personally, I would have liked having such information (especially potential/ real red flags) about any position that I was looking into. Anyone can experience the section for themselves, and make their own assessments, or they can take this admittedly unsolicited information, review red flags, do their own risk benefit analysis, and then decide accordingly. I like putting this information out there because I feel it allows access to many people looking into these questions (one doesn't need a personal contact in the section, and doesn't stand to hurt from the lack of this information if they see it on SDN - in some ways this is the best of internet too, it allows more and more people access to information, most can intelligently interpret that information, and make good decisions about it).

I started this thread only last night after realizing there wasn't one for nephrology, and made the decision to post about my experiences after talking to my year 3 IM resident (applying to endocrine), and hearing how the virus has impacted his decision making/ applications. It really made me think that there could be people out there currently, much like a younger me several years ago, trying their best to learn about programs and make good decisions, and reflected on how important information (shared about a different midwest program by a personal friend), helped me avoid much pain downstream as that program struggled. I want to share this with the hope to ensure no one has to suffer unnecessarily. Usually we are smart as physicians and can often pick even subconsciously the little things that build the culture of a place/ the factors that are hard to pinpoint but effect outcomes. In virtual interviewing, I am not sure how that would work, and I really think there is value to sharing experiences, and for others to learn from them (trust but verify is the best approach in my opinion). It is important to ask hard questions, and this information equips interviewees with some hard questions, most of them can take it from there and make intelligent decisions for themselves.

Adios to you, try to feel less offended
 
I made myself a principle not to engage with internet trolls. You sound annoyed. I had completed my training a while ago. The idea behind sharing experiences is that they are a person's observations and assessments, you are welcome to make your own by investing time and labor, and then share your experiences and conclusions that you derive. Personally, I would have liked having such information (especially potential/ real red flags) about any position that I was looking into. Anyone can experience the section for themselves, and make their own assessments, or they can take this admittedly unsolicited information, review red flags, do their own risk benefit analysis, and then decide accordingly. I like putting this information out there because I feel it allows access to many people looking into these questions (one doesn't need a personal contact in the section, and doesn't stand to hurt from the lack of this information if they see it on SDN - in some ways this is the best of internet too, it allows more and more people access to information, most can intelligently interpret that information, and make good decisions about it).

I started this thread only last night after realizing there wasn't one for nephrology, and made the decision to post about my experiences after talking to my year 3 IM resident (applying to endocrine), and hearing how the virus has impacted his decision making/ applications. It really made me think that there could be people out there currently, much like a younger me several years ago, trying their best to learn about programs and make good decisions, and reflected on how important information (shared about a different midwest program by a personal friend), helped me avoid much pain downstream as that program struggled. I want to share this with the hope to ensure no one has to suffer unnecessarily. Usually we are smart as physicians and can often pick even subconsciously the little things that build the culture of a place/ the factors that are hard to pinpoint but effect outcomes. In virtual interviewing, I am not sure how that would work, and I really think there is value to sharing experiences, and for others to learn from them (trust but verify is the best approach in my opinion). It is important to ask hard questions, and this information equips interviewees with some hard questions, most of them can take it from there and make intelligent decisions for themselves.

Adios to you, try to feel less offended
Yes I am annoyed that you apparently have an agenda to bash a particular program with personal attacks of its PD...with your first post here ...the troll here would be you.
There are plenty of nephrology threads here if you haven’t noticed...the Official Nephrology Application Thread is not one that bashes a program, but an objective thread for applicants to share information.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Yes its a troubled speciality. Just an add on to the thread.
Looks like it has the worst board passing rate .
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20200817-141604_Word.jpg
    Screenshot_20200817-141604_Word.jpg
    60.2 KB · Views: 174
Yes its a troubled speciality. Just an add on to the thread.
Looks like it has the worst board passing rate .


This is what happens with fellowship program accepts anyone with a heart beat. They are more concerned with getting their night
calls covered. There's no shame about it. If they can't fill positions with traditional applicants, there's a always a desperate foreign
grad who couldn't match into residency, and they will just exploit him/her.
 
This is what happens with fellowship program accepts anyone with a heart beat. They are more concerned with getting their night
calls covered. There's no shame about it. If they can't fill positions with traditional applicants, there's a always a desperate foreign
grad who couldn't match into residency, and they will just exploit him/her.
ID and Geriatric speciality also accepts the desperate IMG who don't match residency or desired fellowship and look at their board passing rate compared to Nephrology.
Good luck to all .
 
Top