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New anesthesia residency program - HNSLIJ

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Anesthbro

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New anesthesia program pros and cons, please?

There's a new anesthesia residency, only two years old, currently with up to CA-2 year.
My question is what are the pros and cons of a program like this?
It's a university program, great location, by a school that's established and with great programs in other specialties. The PD was a PD for another program elsewhere for 25 years, and the faculty I met during interview seemed both impressive and excited about teaching, plus the hospitals on the network have tons of cases of all kinds to meet numbers.
However, I'm sure there are cons to this kind of baby program and was wondering what they could be. If anyone could chime in, it'd be greatly appreciated.
 

Anesthbro

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May be obvious, but it's in Long Island, NY.
 
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Carbocation1

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Residency is the most important part of your career - you may not want to risk it.
 

Wiscoblue

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If it is at a hospital like the one in Royal Oak MI, your experience and exposure to all specialties will be great. All private groups in the state are aware of the quality of the hospital and the anesthesia department. You will have no problem finding a job.


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chocomorsel

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I would say go for it if you think it is solid. Think about it, no Fellows so one gets to do everything.

However, Texas Tech in El Paso restarted their residency back in 2011 or so and were then bought out two or three years later. The residents had to all find new digs to finish their training. All hospitals care about is the bottom dollar. If they start losing money by starting this new program, they may be inclined to sell their services to the lowest bidder.
 
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Anesthbro

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Oh, to hell with it. It's Hofstra North Shore -LIJ.
 
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Anesthbro

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Anyone heard anything postive or negative about the program?
Better yet, is there a resident from there in the forum?
 

Scotty_G

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Nappa the king of Management Companies in the NY/Long Island area is headquartered there. Why would you want to do residency there? You bet they will try to recruit you after for a ****y job. No fellows is a good thing but there are other residencies that don't have fellowships too. I still don't get how they could start a residency where the hospital anesthesia group is run by a management company. Now if they were a good group to join post residency then yea being a resident would help get your foot in the door. This is unfortunately not the case.
 

Anesthbro

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Nappa the king of Management Companies in the NY/Long Island area is headquartered there. Why would you want to do residency there? You bet they will try to recruit you after for a ****y job. No fellows is a good thing but there are other residencies that don't have fellowships too. I still don't get how they could start a residency where the hospital anesthesia group is run by a management company. Now if they were a good group to join post residency then yea being a resident would help get your foot in the door. This is unfortunately not the case.
Can't I just not work for them when I'm done training? If there's nothing on the contract that forces me to, I mean.
Reply would be greatly appreciated.
 

Psai

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Northshore LIJ will soon become northwell. It's a wealthy hospital system with very nice facilities. They can also afford to pay for great ancillary services which seems to be a rather large problem in other places in the area. However, Hofstra is not an established medical school. It just graduated its first class this past year. It will do likely well in the future because it has a forward thinking dean and an interesting philosophy but they are still untested. They also have students from downstate and einstein rotate through. The location is great for paying nyc prices without the benefit of actually living in nyc. They do have pretty decent housing right next to the hospital though. The nice thing about established programs is that you have an alumni system and can probably find graduates from your program in the places that you are interested in but this program will not have many for you by the time you graduate.

The chair of the department is the ceo of napa which is an anesthesia management company. These companies are good for people who like being employed so as to make less money for more work except for those in leadership positions. I did hear rumblings about how this company held the contract at the hospital system in another residency program which led to rather lackluster teaching for residents leading to a corresponding decrease in morale. I'm not sure how it works at their own program though.
 

Anesthbro

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Northshore LIJ will soon become northwell. It's a wealthy hospital system with very nice facilities. They can also afford to pay for great ancillary services which seems to be a rather large problem in other places in the area. However, Hofstra is not an established medical school. It just graduated its first class this past year. It will do likely well in the future because it has a forward thinking dean and an interesting philosophy but they are still untested. They also have students from downstate and einstein rotate through. The location is great for paying nyc prices without the benefit of actually living in nyc. They do have pretty decent housing right next to the hospital though. The nice thing about established programs is that you have an alumni system and can probably find graduates from your program in the places that you are interested in but this program will not have many for you by the time you graduate.

The chair of the department is the ceo of napa which is an anesthesia management company. These companies are good for people who like being employed so as to make less money for more work except for those in leadership positions. I did hear rumblings about how this company held the contract at the hospital system in another residency program which led to rather lackluster teaching for residents leading to a corresponding decrease in morale. I'm not sure how it works at their own program though.
So NAPA-owned/operated could translate into lackluster teaching?
 
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Scotty_G

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They have good facilities because the hospital system is very profitable as you know. I mean come on this is Long Island.... No wonder Nappa was started here :) In short I think most of us would agree it's risky to go there for residency. The only other place I know was the place previously mentioned in Texas. The residents had to be relocated after the AMC took over. I don't think that would happen here because it would make Nappa look bad. Rumors have it that admin are getting tired of Nappa at NS-LIJ.
 
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Psai

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They have good facilities because the hospital system is very profitable as you know. I mean come on this is Long Island.... No wonder Nappa was started here :) In short I think most of us would agree it's risky to go their for residency. The only other place I know was the place previously mentioned in Texas. The residents had to be relocated after the AMC took over. I don't think that would happen here because it would make Nappa look bad. Rumors have it that admin are getting tired of Nappa at NS-LIJ.

I don't doubt it, judging by what I've heard about their business practices. But the chair of anesthesiology at ns-lij is the ceo of napa
 

Scotty_G

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Beware the dark side... once you join an AMC it will forever dominate your destiny.
 

Anesthbro

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Beware the dark side... once you join an AMC it will forever dominate your destiny.
Beware the dark side... once you join an AMC it will forever dominate your destiny.

I guess Im trying to understand what that would look like in this program, though.
As a resident, would I be overworked as merely cheap labor or what?
My apologies for continuing to ask. Just trying to grasp the extent of the issue for a resident in the program.
 

TeslaCoil

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My best friend's wife is a ca-2 at LIJ. She says the training is excellent, pay is great, but she works ridiculous hours and always looks like a zombie. Just sayin.
 

Anesthbro

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My best friend's wife is a ca-2 at LIJ. She says the training is excellent, pay is great, but she works ridiculous hours and always looks like a zombie. Just sayin.
Does she have time to study?
 

Psai

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My best friend's wife is a ca-2 at LIJ. She says the training is excellent, pay is great, but she works ridiculous hours and always looks like a zombie. Just sayin.

How many is ridiculous
 

TeslaCoil

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On non call days I have personally seen her arrive at home after 7 on multiple occasions. She then proceeds to study. She said she usually puts in 60-70. Sometimes more. ICU is hell as usual.
 
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Anesthbro

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On non call days I have personally seen her arrive at home after 7 on multiple occasions. She then proceeds to study. She said she usually puts in 60-70. Sometimes more. ICU is hell as usual.
Is that comparable to other programs in the city?
 

TeslaCoil

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notsureifserious.jpg

Well if shes working 60/wk then thats not so bad. If shes working 70/wk then thats pushing it imo. But just from seeing her coming home after 7-8 pm on tge random occasions that I happened to be at their house, I'm guessing its closer to 70.
 

TeslaCoil

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Is that comparable to other programs in the city?

Not sure abt that. But when i interviewed with some places in nyc they all seemed to stay around 55-60/week. Not including ICU.
 

Anesthbro

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So it's a workhorse program..

Does anyone else have anything else they know and can add?

Particularly, I am interested in any info on the program director, Aronhson.
 

TeslaCoil

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Anything else I should know? And thanks!

If you are interested in CT anesthesia, the PD at LIJ is one of the top CT anesthesiologists in the nation, I would venture to say that a phone call from her on your behalf could knock down some serious doors for landing a CT fellowship...
 

TeslaCoil

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Hahaha.....just have to laugh. Every decent program has "one of the top blah blah blah....."

Laugh away. He asked about the pd and I tried to answer with what I knew. Not sure whats so laughable though...
 
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deleted171991

The only thing worse than working for an AMC after residency is working for one during it. ;)
 
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nimbus

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Laugh away. He asked about the pd and I tried to answer with what I knew. Not sure whats so laughable though...


The concept of "top cardiac anesthesiologist" is laughable. There are some leaders in cardiac anesthesia active in SCA and Echo week, who publish a lot and write books.....but there's no competition to determine one like "top chef". And I doubt the individual in question would come up on anyone's list of "top cardiac anesthesiologists in the nation".....even though she may be a stellar clinician like MANY of her peers. It's as meaningful as "second to none"....lmao
 
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TeslaCoil

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The concept of "top cardiac anesthesiologist" is laughable. There are some leaders in cardiac anesthesia active in SCA and Echo week, who publish a lot and write books.....but there's no competition to determine one like "top chef". And I doubt the individual in question would come up on anyone's list of "top cardiac anesthesiologists". It's as meaningful as "second to none"....lmao

She is in fact VERY active in many aspects. And I wasnt born yesterday. I didnt say she is THE top CT anesthesiologist, nor am I insinuating that an actual list or ranking of physicians exists or should exist. Thats an assumption you're making. I'm merely using "top doc" as a figure of speech to point out the fact that she is a highly publicised and well known CT doc, whose talks you can attend at any ASA meeting. Its not just a hunch, I know for a fact that this PD has clout. Any other productive adages??
 

nimbus

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She is in fact VERY active in many aspects. And I wasnt born yesterday. I didnt say she is THE top CT anesthesiologist, nor am I insinuating that an actual list or ranking of physicians exists or should exist. Thats an assumption you're making. I'm merely using "top doc" as a figure of speech to point out the fact that she is a highly publicised and well known CT doc, whose talks you can attend at any ASA meeting. Its not just a hunch, I know for a fact that this PD has clout. Any other productive adages??

The program director at NSLIJ is listed as Judith Aronsohn. I attend a lot of cardiac anesthesia and echo meetings and I've never seen or heard of her. In fact she is not echo boarded which makes me question whether she even does cardiac anesthesia. I suppose it's possible but it would be unusual.
 
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Anesthbro

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I have an interview scheduled here later this month. Thank you to the OP and everyone else who has provided useful info. Special thanks to TeslaCoil

To summarize
Pros: High pay, nice facilities, academic affiliation
Cons: Hours are high, Napa-AMC (not good for teaching purposes), new program = lack of alumni network and program recognition (biggest problem in my eyes)

Looking forward to my interview. If any of the other candidates want to share thoughts before the rank list is due, PM me :)

Also, the cardiac anesthesiologist you guys are referring to is Dr. Linda Shore Lesserson. Within the world of cardiac anesthesia, she is VERY much big time. Too bad I'm not interested in hearts. I'm sure a phone call from her would go a long way tho

Yeah, I was told one of the CA-2 looking into CT fellowships is basically hand-picking their interviews thanks to Dr. Shore.
I wonder if any of their other attendings have that kind of pull. How their pain is, for example.
 

jk1979

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i would b careful of putting too much emphasis on what one attending can do with a phone call. Fellowships want to recruit from programs that have a proven track record of giving them solid fellows. Whoever this cardiac person is, I'm sure there are equivalent at other programs. Personally, I wouldn't take any chances with a new program...to much growing pains and you only get a shot at proper training once.
 
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deleted171991

i would b careful of putting too much emphasis on what one attending can do with a phone call. Fellowships want to recruit from programs that have a proven track record of giving them solid fellows. Whoever this cardiac person is, I'm sure there are equivalent at other programs. Personally, I wouldn't take any chances with a new program...to much growing pains and you only get a shot at proper training once.
I tend to agree, especially with the emphasized part. Unless a person has a stellar recommendation and call from a well-known professor, it's usually the name of the residency program that opens the most doors, especially to top places.

The brand matters a lot, that's just basic human psychology.
 
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kazuma

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The concept of "top cardiac anesthesiologist" is laughable. There are some leaders in cardiac anesthesia active in SCA and Echo week, who publish a lot and write books.....but there's no competition to determine one like "top chef". And I doubt the individual in question would come up on anyone's list of "top cardiac anesthesiologists in the nation".....even though she may be a stellar clinician like MANY of her peers. It's as meaningful as "second to none"....lmao

You mean those "top vag reconstruction surgeon" ads in sky magazine are fake? I want my money back...
 
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TeslaCoil

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I have an interview scheduled here later this month. Thank you to the OP and everyone else who has provided useful info. Special thanks to TeslaCoil

To summarize
Pros: High pay, nice facilities, academic affiliation
Cons: Hours are high, Napa-AMC (not good for teaching purposes), new program = lack of alumni network and program recognition (biggest problem in my eyes)

Looking forward to my interview. If any of the other candidates want to share thoughts before the rank list is due, PM me :)

Also, the cardiac anesthesiologist you guys are referring to is Dr. Linda Shore Lesserson. Within the world of cardiac anesthesia, she is VERY much big time. Too bad I'm not interested in hearts. I'm sure a phone call from her would go a long way tho

Not a problem whatsoever, and yes, Dr. Shore-Lesserson is who I was referring to. Good luck!
 
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TeslaCoil

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I tend to agree, especially with the emphasized part. Unless a person has a stellar recommendation and call from a well-known professor, it's usually the name of the residency program that opens the most doors, especially to top places.

The brand matters a lot, that's just basic human psychology.

I agree with what you're saying to an extent, but this line of thinking can also be highly fallacious. I have seen plenty of less than stellar docs come from top pedigree programs, and I have also seen many superb doctors who came from schools all over the world that you would least expect. In my honest opinion, this sort of mentality can be dangerous and should be avoided. Thats just one poor medical student's opinion though. However little it means to those looking down from their towers. o_O
 

dp101

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The only thing worse than working for an AMC after residency is working for one during it. ;)
Hi. I was debating going here for residency. Can u please elaborate on why working for AMC (NAPA) would be so bad?
 
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