New DO school...

[OSUdoc08]

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No, I understand the requirement. I'm just saying for DO training programs that are basically allopathic specialties to begin with.. ie. (NOT OMT focused primary care) such as neurosurgery. Then this just becomes a silly requirement that has no validity.

If we integrated and allowed MD's to enter AOA residencies, then what would be the purpose of having seperate residency programs?

seperate board exams?

seperate degrees?

seperate medical schools?

👎

 

[OzDDS]

I agree! I think anyone with a half of a brain thinks that the requirement is silly. Hell there are a lot of laws that I think are silly too, but you know the old saying "you can't fight city hall".

I bet sometime in the future that the walls between DO and MD residencies will break down but that is just my 2 cents.

and I agree with you.. but these walls are already broken down for DOs! a DO can already apply to not only all DO programs but to all MD programs as well!!

MD grads get the short end of the stick in this deal.. and I was just mentioning that I think it is sort of wrong for the AOA to continue to open more and more DO schools without FIRST creating the infrastructure of postgradutae training programs to train these grads once they finish. (they are basically expecting the allopathic community to train their grads which is wrong!) By doing this as one poster already mentioned, this would help DOs shove their way into the combined match (which yet again, benefits DO grads but does ****all for MD grads except for adding more applicants to their programs and making it harder for them to get into what are already comeptitive programs to begin with)

 

[OzDDS]

If we integrated and allowed MD's to enter AOA residencies, then what would be the purpose of having seperate residency programs?

seperate board exams?

seperate degrees?

seperate medical schools?

👎

Then why do DOs enter MD programs?? How is that any different? Good point!!

 

[OSUdoc08]

Then why do DOs enter MD programs?? How is that any different? Good point!!

The AOA needs to open up more residency positions.

The solution is not to do away with our entire profession.

 

[OzDDS]

The AOA needs to open up more residency positions.

The solution is not to do away with our entire profession.

True!! my point exactly. I'm not against DO programs.. I just think that if your going to create a diff pathway to becoming a physcian, and that pathway is based on the foundation that there is a fundimental difference in philosophy and that you are primary care focused. Then I think you should stick to that! You only cese to make yourselves unique when the AOA opens "osteopathic neurosurgery residencies".. allmost seems like contradiction in terms. Not only that but you should maintain self sufficiency.. and the AOA should create enough if not more than enough spots for their gradutes to enter into, and not rely on the allopathic community to support and train osteopathic graduates.

 

[ItsGavinC]

No finalized decisions have been made yet regarding the school as it is still being investigated.

Actually, I've heard (and believe) that the final decision was made yesterday afternoon in the affirmative, hence my post. I've been wrong before though. 😀

 

[subtle1epiphany]

deleware doesnt even have one 1 med school , suckers

True, but Delaware isn't really a state.

😉

 

[cooldreams]

http://www.state.de.us/revenue/default.shtml


if u look at the pic of the state, it kinda looks like a nose picker or something 😀

 

[Sainttpk]

Why not open a school up in Washington or Oregon??? All we have is UW and OHSU. Everywhere else we apply to would require us to fly and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$..

DAMN IT!

I agree, the WAMII (Washington, Alaska, Montana, Idaho, Oregon) states need another medical school. The fact that we are only served by two is pretty crappy. All of these states combined make up almost a 1/3 of the U.S. land mass, yet we only have two schools! I guess the population is not that large, but their is a need for rural doctors.

BtW where in Washington are u?

T

 

[inhope]

True!! my point exactly. I'm not against DO programs.. I just think that if your going to create a diff pathway to becoming a physcian, and that pathway is based on the foundation that there is a fundimental difference in philosophy and that you are primary care focused. Then I think you should stick to that! You only cese to make yourselves unique when the AOA opens "osteopathic neurosurgery residencies".. allmost seems like contradiction in terms. Not only that but you should maintain self sufficiency.. and the AOA should create enough if not more than enough spots for their gradutes to enter into, and not rely on the allopathic community to support and train osteopathic graduates.

In general, the first four years of any medical program, Allo/Osteo, are similar save the OMM training. Yes, there is a philisophical divergence between Allo/Osteo; However, it appears most, if not all, medical schools education focused on general medicine. I have yet to find a medical school that specializes in training other then general medicine; i.e. primary care. Also, I had a discussion with an MD friend of mine who indicated that the percentage of MD's who follow the FP route equals that of DO's.

During my investigation of osteo programs it seems there is a revival of OMM beyond the class and primary care. I have been informed by numerous osteo students in four different schools, and a few DO aquaintances, the use of OMM in other specialties are being reconstitued. For example, in surgery tracks, pre and post op OMM will become a standard practice again. Also in neuro tracks the respective manipulations for specific neuro pathos will be stressed again. So I think this is another reason the AOA is keeping a tight fist on its residencies. Of course, there are other reasons beyond this, but if an MD would be allowed to enter a DO residency a need for an additional year for OMM training specific for this speciality is required. Yes, this is of course if all goes as I hear from other sources.

 

[BayesianDoc]

deleware doesnt even have one 1 med school , suckers

PCOM is the official DO school of Deleware and actively recruits in DE.

Dr. Thomas president of the AOA mentioned yesterday that there will probably be a school opening in Washington State.

 

[OSUdoc08]

In general, the first four years of any medical program, Allo/Osteo, are similar save the OMM training. Yes, there is a philisophical divergence between Allo/Osteo; However, it appears most, if not all, medical schools education focused on general medicine. I have yet to find a medical school that specializes in training other then general medicine; i.e. primary care. Also, I had a discussion with an MD friend of mine who indicated that the percentage of MD's who follow the FP route equals that of DO's.

During my investigation of osteo programs it seems there is a revival of OMM beyond the class and primary care. I have been informed by numerous osteo students in four different schools, and a few DO aquaintances, the use of OMM in other specialties are being reconstitued. For example, in surgery tracks, pre and post op OMM will become a standard practice again. Also in neuro tracks the respective manipulations for specific neuro pathos will be stressed again. So I think this is another reason the AOA is keeping a tight fist on its residencies. Of course, there are other reasons beyond this, but if an MD would be allowed to enter a DO residency a need for an additional year for OMM training specific for this speciality is required. Yes, this is of course if all goes as I hear from other sources.

Not quite;

Internal medicine is by far the most common specialty for M.D.'s (family practice, on the other hand, is the most common D.O. specialty).

TOTAL MD's IN PRACTICE:
Internal Medicine - 131,109 (highest percentage of MD's by far)
Family Practice - 51,928

TOTAL DO's IN PRACTICE:
Family Practice - 19,656 (highest percentage of DO's by far)
Internal Medicine - 3,244

 

[inhope]

Not quite;

Internal medicine is by far the most common specialty for M.D.'s (family practice, on the other hand, is the most common D.O. specialty).

TOTAL MD's IN PRACTICE:
Internal Medicine - 131,109 (highest percentage of MD's by far)
Family Practice - 51,928

TOTAL DO's IN PRACTICE:
Family Practice - 19,656 (highest percentage of DO's by far)
Internal Medicine - 3,244

Hmm, interesting numbers. I do not see how this effects my premise in response to OzDDS. He indicated that DO's have chosen a different pathway and track so why should MD share residency with DO's, who in turn restrict MD participation.

Again, I believe it is a matter of material that will/is referenced per OMM and our, osteo, holistic (not the new agie stuff!) paradigm. Interesting, DO are taught evidence based holistic medicine, and MD remain on pure evidence based medicine, which is by no means wrong or inapproriate. It is just a diff of approach. In the end a DO and MD who approache a person suffering from a GSW, in essence, do the same thing to keep that person alive and live the best they can p/s GSW.

 

[Aphelion]

I agree, the WAMII (Washington, Alaska, Montana, Idaho, Oregon) states need another medical school. The fact that we are only served by two is pretty crappy. All of these states combined make up almost a 1/3 of the U.S. land mass, yet we only have two schools! I guess the population is not that large, but their is a need for rural doctors.

BtW where in Washington are u?

T

Posted this a day too soon.... Announced planned opening of Osteopathic school in Yakima...
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=193443

 

[allmightylong]

I agree, the WAMII (Washington, Alaska, Montana, Idaho, Oregon) states need another medical school. The fact that we are only served by two is pretty crappy. All of these states combined make up almost a 1/3 of the U.S. land mass, yet we only have two schools! I guess the population is not that large, but their is a need for rural doctors.

BtW where in Washington are u?

T

I'm in Seattle. 👍

 

[Mufasa01]

MD's don't have the training to complete all of the requirements in most AOA residencies, and they would then be required to do the mandatory AOA internship, which also includes OMM in many programs. Also, this would mean elimination of the COMLEX, which tests differently than MD schools.

DO schools would have to change their curriculum to adapt to the USMLE. Both test in a completely different way. What about the OMM component of the test? Do we just throw that out? No, if you don't want to learn and be tested on OMM----go to an M.D. school.

Are you implying that DO schools do not do as good a job as MD schools at preparing students to take the USMLE? If this is the case please let me know now before I get myself into a program that will not prepare me well for these tests. Yes I am interested in OMM but not enough so to sacrifice the quality of my education in the science of medicine. This has nothing to do with philosophy. I have my own beliefs that are very open minded. If I want to integrate philosophy I will do so on my own. As for a quality medical education based in science, this is what I am going to medical school for. I was under the impression that Osteopathic schools curriculum was not substantially different than allopathic, that the primary difference was additional training in OMM.

 

[double elle]

Are you implying that DO schools do not do as good a job as MD schools at preparing students to take the USMLE? If this is the case please let me know now before I get myself into a program that will not prepare me well for these tests. Yes I am interested in OMM but not enough so to sacrifice the quality of my education in the science of medicine. This has nothing to do with philosophy. I have my own beliefs that are very open minded. If I want to integrate philosophy I will do so on my own. As for a quality medical education based in science, this is what I am going to medical school for. I was under the impression that Osteopathic schools curriculum was not substantially different than allopathic, that the primary difference was additional training in OMM.

They are different tests - but you will be FINE - maybe even do better on the USMLE, since I hear it way more well written than the COMLEX. In my opinion, the only reason to plan on taking both sets of boards is 1)you are planning on going into a highly competetive residency and may need to include the MD programs (that may/may not take COMLEX - but be prepared for either) or...2) you have absolutely NO idea what you want to do or where you want to be - so, again, prepare for anything.

Except for the OMM board review stuff, the review books for the boards are the same. Kaplan has an osteopathic review course with books - but I think they just add the OMM questions - I don't know that the other practice questions are different from the allopathic board review Qbook.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Are you implying that DO schools do not do as good a job as MD schools at preparing students to take the USMLE? If this is the case please let me know now before I get myself into a program that will not prepare me well for these tests. Yes I am interested in OMM but not enough so to sacrifice the quality of my education in the science of medicine. This has nothing to do with philosophy. I have my own beliefs that are very open minded. If I want to integrate philosophy I will do so on my own. As for a quality medical education based in science, this is what I am going to medical school for. I was under the impression that Osteopathic schools curriculum was not substantially different than allopathic, that the primary difference was additional training in OMM.

DO schools prepare you for the COMLEX, on the most part. If you want to be trained for the USMLE, then yes go to an MD school. There are some exceptions, such as OSU-COM, who has the authority on USMLE review as a professor. We had a 100% pass rate on the USMLE last year.

 

[Nate]

DO schools prepare you for the COMLEX, on the most part. If you want to be trained for the USMLE, then yes go to an MD school. There are some exceptions, such as OSU-COM, who has the authority on USMLE review as a professor. We had a 100% pass rate on the USMLE last year.

VCOM requires, supports, and trains their students for the USMLE. Other schools may not require that you take the USMLE, however that is not to say they won't support it.

 

[OSUdoc08]

VCOM requires, supports, and trains their students for the USMLE. Other schools may not require that you take the USMLE, however that is not to say they won't support it.

That is true, but certain areas found in high-yield on the USMLE, but not on the COMLEX, such as biochemistry, are underemphasized at osteopathic schools.

 

[DireWolf]

Are you implying that DO schools do not do as good a job as MD schools at preparing students to take the USMLE? If this is the case please let me know now before I get myself into a program that will not prepare me well for these tests. Yes I am interested in OMM but not enough so to sacrifice the quality of my education in the science of medicine. This has nothing to do with philosophy. I have my own beliefs that are very open minded. If I want to integrate philosophy I will do so on my own. As for a quality medical education based in science, this is what I am going to medical school for. I was under the impression that Osteopathic schools curriculum was not substantially different than allopathic, that the primary difference was additional training in OMM.

I would look into VCOM, MSU, and OSU.

 

[BOHICA-FIGMO]

The Board of Trustees of A.T. Still University of Health Sciences are evaluating the possibility of adding a D.O. program to our campus in Arizona as part of a proposed Long-Range plan. No finalized decisions have been made yet regarding the school as it is still being investigated.

Brad Risby
Admissions Counselor A.T. Still University of Health Sciences

Lest there be any doubt: this post is proof that admissions comittees troll the SDN forums. Beware!

 

[OSUdoc08]

Lest there be any doubt: this post is proof that admissions comittees troll the SDN forums. Beware!

I will second that. They discussed my actual posts on here with me.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Lest there be any doubt: this post is proof that admissions comittees troll the SDN forums. Beware!

To clarify, adcoms and admissions counselors are two different beasts.

 

[GMO2003]

AT Still University announced today that they will be starting another DO school (their current one is KCOM), this one in Arizona (where their dental school and health science school resides). The Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine and the Arizona School of Osteopathic Medicine will be individual and separate entities under AT Still University.

Classes will begin in 2007.

I thought some of you might find this interesting.

just out of curiousity...being a dentite...why are you always in the MD/DO forums? no offense...just curious 🙂

 

[Raven Feather]

Why not have a DO med school started in Indiana? It is a pretty big state with only one med school which is MD. Doesn't give many choices to the in-staters.

 

[mshheaddoc]

Why not have a DO med school started in Indiana? It is a pretty big state with only one med school which is MD. Doesn't give many choices to the in-staters.

Its just not that easy for starting a DO school. Its a long process and usually started where there is a need for physicians as well as support from the community (so they are starting ot see with the AZCOM debacle with competition for clerkships). Additionally DO schools are growing rapidly. You never know where they'll go 😉

 

[Shinken]

Are you implying that DO schools do not do as good a job as MD schools at preparing students to take the USMLE? If this is the case please let me know now before I get myself into a program that will not prepare me well for these tests. Yes I am interested in OMM but not enough so to sacrifice the quality of my education in the science of medicine. This has nothing to do with philosophy. I have my own beliefs that are very open minded. If I want to integrate philosophy I will do so on my own. As for a quality medical education based in science, this is what I am going to medical school for. I was under the impression that Osteopathic schools curriculum was not substantially different than allopathic, that the primary difference was additional training in OMM.

Doing well on Step 1 of the USMLE will not mean you'll be a good physician. Unless, of course, being able to recite from memory all the intermediates and enzymes of the Heme pathway means you'll be a heck of a surgeon.

 

[jpwa1988]

As mentioned in a previous post, there is a private group attempting to build a D.O. school in Yakima Washington. However, the private organization is still attempting to secure twenty million dollars in financing. This is not the first time a group has contemplated building a D.O. school in Washington so I guess time will tell if it actually happens. It would be wonderful if the project does go through. If the group actually does build the facility it will be interesting to see what the 3rd and 4th year clerkship setup will be. With the University of Washington School Of Medicine pretty much controlling the majority of possible sites in the state, this new school may have to set up many of their third and fourth year rotations out of the area or set up sites in rural areas of the state.

 

[Mike MacKinnon]

Hello All

As an interested candidate for 2007/2008 entrance years I have actually been in contact with the Kirkland school in relation to the possible DO program that was mentioned here for Arizona (mesa). They have told me that it will happen but that the plans are not yet finialized. It seems the "hopeful" start time will be 2007 but that it really isnt 100% guarenteed.

In anycase, I cant wait to write these MCATS in August 2006 or April 2007 and get that overwith. Its the greatest hurdle and somewhat terrifing.

 

[MrDinosaur]

I have been reading this thread with some interest. Since I have decided to pursue the medical path at the early age of 46, it is good to know that there will be additional opportunities in 2007.

But, here's some other things I have discovered while looking at the options. The DO and MD paths, to this point in our history have been on separate, but joined paths. Over the years, the major differences between the two have been eroding, to the point now where the primary difference is the "type" of training and philosophy the students receive.

The reason this is an important concept, is only now are the MD schools incorporating the OMM or "DO" type course work into the curriculum. As this occurs, the lines between the two will become even more blurred and undistinguished.

This event reveals an interesting development in the education of Doctors. It is this event that has convinced me that medical training will be re-tooled to fit the pending increase in elderly and potential need for doctors to have a number of tools at their disposal. This will need to include all available knowledge, pharmaceuticals, techniques, processes and doctor/patient relationships.

Acknowledging this changes the perception of what the need will be. So, I hope the DO and MD schools do expand their facilities. Because, as they expand and re-tool for the future, the future doctors will reap tremendous benefits from the "new" teaching methodologies.