New M3 thinking of dropping out for CAA school

[executivewaffle]

Hey. I've been doing a lot of reflecting and I don't think this path is for me. I'm not interested in doing a residency or using my MD in another way. Surveying and studying all the core clerkships does not interest me. I'd rather just focus on a set of skills and start working. I like the OR. Not interested in being a surgeon (anymore) or an anesthesiologist. I've been thinking about dropping out to become a certified anesthesiology assistant. I'm in good academic standing. Passed Step 1. Anyone have any thoughts on this? If I'm being stupid let me know. If you know anyone who went this route, let me know also.

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[theoceanman]

Why an AA over a general anesthesiologist? As an AA, currently, you'll be limited in the states you can work and you'll have much less independence. I've heard many do not enjoy core clerkships but still move onto their specialty of choice and enjoy their time through that.

 

[executivewaffle]

Why an AA over a general anesthesiologist? As an AA, currently, you'll be limited in the states you can work and you'll have much less independence. I've heard many do not enjoy core clerkships but still move onto their specialty of choice and enjoy their time through that.

I think I've had my fill of medical training. The prospect of finishing MD school and then doing residency, taking Step 2 and 3, shelves, inservice, boards is hard for me to stomach. I want to cut down on training time. I know AA school will be hard too, has its own board exam and renewal exams, but 2 years over 6 is much more manageable for me. The benefits of being an anesthesiologist or a physician over an assistant don't matter to me (i.e. autonomy) and are not worth the costs for me. I am more than happy with the choice of AA states.

 

[theoceanman]

I think I've had my fill of medical training. The prospect of finishing MD school and then doing residency, taking Step 2 and 3, shelves, inservice, boards is hard for me to stomach. I want to cut down on training time. I know AA school will be hard too, has its own board exam and renewal exams, but 2 years over 6 is much more manageable for me. The benefits of being an anesthesiologist or a physician over an assistant don't matter to me (i.e. autonomy) and are not worth the costs for me. I am more than happy with the choice of AA states.

That's good. Have you spoken to any advisors of whether dropping out of medical school will affect your chances of getting into any AA school? I am a bit concerned, regardless of it being medical school, that it may impact your application negatively.

 

[mstpgrind]

I would say finish your MD (maybe consider doing a year of internship), then go. I know 2/3 years is a lot, but it’ll give you significantly more opportunities.

Once you drop out you’ll probably never be able to get back in; in your position I would at least get something out of all the work I’ve done + tuition I’ve paid and get my MD. In case I want to do anything in the future.

 

[executivewaffle]

That's good. Have you spoken to any advisors of whether dropping out of medical school will affect your chances of getting into any AA school? I am a bit concerned, regardless of it being medical school, that it may impact your application negatively.

Had one convo and will be speaking to at least 2 more advisors. She doesn't think it would be a negative. Granted, she's a physician and not an AA adcom.

 

[theoceanman]

Had one convo and will be speaking to at least 2 more advisors. She doesn't think it would be a negative. Granted, she's a physician and not an AA adcom.

I would speak to an AA admissions committee member or speak to someone that advises for AA applicants as this will allow you to grasp an idea of what path to take from there. They will give the most forward, direct advice and suggestions to you as a potential applicant and how you could address any potential deficits.

 

[Zen Arcade]

I think I've had my fill of medical training. The prospect of finishing MD school and then doing residency, taking Step 2 and 3, shelves, inservice, boards is hard for me to stomach. I want to cut down on training time. I know AA school will be hard too, has its own board exam and renewal exams, but 2 years over 6 is much more manageable for me. The benefits of being an anesthesiologist or a physician over an assistant don't matter to me (i.e. autonomy) and are not worth the costs for me. I am more than happy with the choice of AA states.

You're an M3. You'll have M4, intern year, and CA1 year and by that time you'll be fairly proficient at your job. You're obviously still training the last few years of anesthesiology residency, but by the time you finish CA1 you feel a lot more comfortable in your skills from what I've heard. You're probably just burned out. It would be incredible dumb to jump ship now and be stuck making half the salary as a physician for the rest of your life. And remember, once you jump ship - for 99.9% of people - you can't jump back on. Terminal mistake

 

[executivewaffle]

more opportunities.

Opportunities for what though? None of the MD prospects have appealed to me as much as AA. I feel like my outlook on having an MD will likely not change. But I have blinders on right now because of my emotional state/struggling through career decisions and I can't tell if I'm supposed to just suck it up even if I think I'm making a reasoned pivot.

 

[executivewaffle]

You're an M3. You'll have M4, intern year, and CA1 year and by that time you'll be fairly proficient at your job. You're obviously still training the last few years of anesthesiology residency, but by the time you finish CA1 you feel a lot more comfortable in your skills from what I've heard. You're probably just burned out. It would be incredible dumb to jump ship now and be stuck making half the salary as a physician for the rest of your life. And remember, once you jump ship - for 99.9% of people - you can't jump back on. Terminal mistake

I don't think the salary thing is motivating for me. Trading 6 years of something I have a strong feeling against doesn't seem worth it. I know 6 years is not a lot of time and will pass but they are meaningful to me even beyond doubling my salary and I don't want to spend them in med training.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I presume you've talked with actual anesthesiology assistants, then. I'm really sorry you didn't discover this career before starting medical school; there are a couple of people I know who really enjoyed making that decision, and they are really happy. There are not many programs available, and I'm not sure the faculty who serve on admissions committees will look at medical students who dropped out very favorably. Do you have strong references from faculty who are very supportive of your change?

 

[Zen Arcade]

I don't think the salary thing is motivating for me. Trading 6 years of something I have a strong feeling against doesn't seem worth it. I know 6 years is not a lot of time and will pass but they are meaningful to me even beyond doubling my salary and I don't want to spend them in med training.

Higher salary means more flexibility in your future - you can retire earlier, work less, while still making more money than an AA. Also, I get having negative feelings about getting through M4 (which is a cakewalk) and intern year, but you'll be doing tasks functionally similar to an AA as a CA1-3. If you really are that against being an anesthesia resident I dont get why you think you'd like the AA path.

 

[imidazzle92]

Personally, I wouldn't do it if I already finished the pre-clinical portion of medical school and passed Step 1. Different story if you were an M1 or a premed. I don't know much about CAA school but I can imagine it would be painful to apply, sit through more classes and take exams, and ultimately end up with a job that'll earn you a fraction of what you could've made.

Since you're opposed to more years of training, you could look into MD careers that don't require residency.

 

[mstpgrind]

Opportunities for what though? None of the MD prospects have appealed to me as much as AA. I feel like my outlook on having an MD will likely not change. But I have blinders on right now because of my emotional state/struggling through career decisions and I can't tell if I'm supposed to just suck it up even if I think I'm making a reasoned pivot.

Options that don't require residency like consulting, etc.

Sure, you may have no interest in these now, but who know about 10 years later?

All you have left is essentially .5 years of hard work (assuming about half of 3rd year required rotations will be "hard work"), then you can chill 4th year.

There's just too much upside to finishing up your degree and getting at least the MD before choosing to do whatever you want later on.

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

At this point, you've gotten through a fair part of the toughest years of medical school. And it appears you have done well. I think a lot of students find this transition from pre-clinical to clinical kind of weird and a little unsettling.

Clerkships and shelf exams will be challenging but potentially eye-opening as you rotate through a bunch of possible career paths. And then M4 is comparatively easier. As noted up-thread, residency as an anesthesiologist might not be a whole lot different than going through the AA program.

I'd encourage you to consider pushing through this next year, seeing what specialties might inspire you, and then see what you want to do about residency application at that time. Then, either way, finish up M4 and get your MD. You'll always have it.

 

[executivewaffle]

I presume you've talked with actual anesthesiology assistants, then. I'm really sorry you didn't discover this career before starting medical school; there are a couple of people I know who really enjoyed making that decision, and they are really happy. There are not many programs available, and I'm not sure the faculty who serve on admissions committees will look at medical students who dropped out very favorably. Do you have strong references from faculty who are very supportive of your change?

I can get strong references, yes.

And, yes, unfortunate that I wasn't aware of this career. It is what it is.

 

[executivewaffle]

Higher salary means more flexibility in your future - you can retire earlier, work less, while still making more money than an AA. Also, I get having negative feelings about getting through M4 (which is a cakewalk) and intern year, but you'll be doing tasks functionally similar to an AA as a CA1-3. If you really are that against being an anesthesia resident I dont get why you think you'd like the AA path.

Hours, getting paid earlier, feeling settled into my "real appropriately compensated job" earlier. Only one board exam. No having to grind through all the core clerkships when I can just focus on one job. Not the ultimate shot caller on a patient. Sounds like it's not expected of AAs to read journals in their free time. So many reasons why AA is preferable.

 

[executivewaffle]

since you're opposed to more years of training, you could look into MD careers that don't require residency.

I have and tbh they don't seem appealing.

Options that don't require residency like consulting, etc.

Also, how much can you really do as an MD without residency in consulting (not even addressing the fact that I don't want to be a consultant)? Could you make as much as an AA (base 220k-240k)? It would really suck to come out the other end of school with more debt and a lower salary than I could have made had I pivoted... just thinking out loud

 

[executivewaffle]

e

Higher salary means more flexibility in your future - you can retire earlier, work less, while still making more money than an AA. Also, I get having negative feelings about getting through M4 (which is a cakewalk) and intern year, but you'll be doing tasks functionally similar to an AA as a CA1-3. If you really are that against being an anesthesia resident I dont get why you think you'd like the AA path.

I forgot to mention. If I'm staying MD, I'm going for psych. I don't think the salary difference is as large as AA and anesthesiology. Just saw a bunch of AA listings with new grad salaries of 220k-240k. Psych is, like, around 250k? Doesn't seem worth 6 years (which subsumes all the aspects of medicine I don't want to do).

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I can get strong references, yes.

And, yes, unfortunate that I wasn't aware of this career. It is what it is.

Well, it is except for the education debt you carry now versus then.

 

[executivewaffle]

Well, it is except for the education debt you carry now versus then.

Very true. I am the point where paying it off with a lower paying job seems better for my wellbeing than sticking it out.

 

[Osminog]

1. AAs can practice in only 20 states. There's little chance that this list will rapidly expand any time in the near future. (See #2)
2. The CRNA lobby is very powerful. CRNAs are able to practice independently in a majority of states. This adds a major element of uncertainty for the future AA job market. The threat of being entirely outcompeted by CRNAs is always looming.
3. While you don't mind the idea of being an "assistant" now, do you think you still won't mind when you're at the peak of your career? Some people don't like the idea of being a sidekick when they've achieved maximal growth in their chosen field.
4. A vast majority of students don't fail any third-year rotations, and 98% of US/Canadian MD students pass Step 2. Given the fact that you're in good standing at this point and passed Step 1, the rest of medical school shouldn't be too much of a grind.
5. "220-240k" isn't a typical starting salary for AAs; it's possible if you're getting a job in an undesirable rural location or if you're set to work insane hours. More likely, you'd be looking at $160-180k/year as a new graduate. The average salary for a psychiatrist is just over $300K/year, per the latest Medscape compensation report; I wouldn't count on ever making that much as an AA – and certainly not with the lifestyle and work-life balance of an average psychiatrist.

 

[executivewaffle]

1. AAs can practice in only 20 states. There's little chance that this list will rapidly expand any time in the near future. (See #2)
2. The CRNA lobby is very powerful. CRNAs are able to practice independently in a majority of states. This adds a major element of uncertainty for the future AA job market. The threat of being entirely outcompeted by CRNAs is always looming.
3. While you don't mind the idea of being an "assistant" now, do you think you still won't mind when you're at the peak of your career? Some people don't like the idea of being a sidekick when they've achieved maximal growth in their chosen field.
4. A vast majority of students don't fail any third-year rotations, and 98% of US/Canadian MD students pass Step 2. Given the fact that you're in good standing at this point and passed Step 1, the rest of medical school shouldn't be too much of a grind.
5. "220-240k" isn't a typical starting salary for AAs; it's possible if you're getting a job in an undesirable rural location or if you're set to work insane hours. More likely, you'd be looking at $160-180k/year as a new graduate. The average salary for a psychiatrist is just over $300K/year, per the latest Medscape compensation report; I wouldn't count on ever making that much as an AA – and certainly not with the lifestyle and work-life balance of an average psychiatrist.

5. Thanks for your input. You're right--I was misremembering the starting salaries I saw on gaswork.com. In any case, still, I don't think the salary bump outweighs the costs for me. Looks like psych avg comp according to medscape is 287k. But yeah, the money gap is not really motivating me rn.

2. I won't mind. This I know.

4. This presses on me. I hear it a lot IRL. Why would you quit if you're knocking out the exams? But that in itself can't be a reason to just keep doing it :c. Tbh, I was half wishing I would fail Step so I would have a fork in the road but now there's even more momentum to just keep doing what I've been doing. Sorry, I'm a little mopey in my responses. Trying to keep my head up through this.

 

[mstpgrind]

5. Thanks for your input. You're right--I was misremembering the starting salaries I saw on gaswork.com. In any case, still, I don't think the salary bump outweighs the costs for me. Looks like psych avg comp according to medscape is 287k. But yeah, the money gap is not really motivating me rn.

2. I won't mind. This I know.

4. This presses on me. I hear it a lot IRL. Why would you quit if you're knocking out the exams? But that in itself can't be a reason to just keep doing it :c. Tbh, I was half wishing I would fail Step so I would have a fork in the road but now there's even more momentum to just keep doing what I've been doing. Sorry, I'm a little mopey in my responses. Trying to keep my head up through this.

Re 4: because you’ve put in so much work, time, and money into the process already and you’re so close to the finish line. Let momentum carry you to your MD degree and then see what you want to do after.

 

[Osminog]

5. Thanks for your input. You're right--I was misremembering the starting salaries I saw on gaswork.com. In any case, still, I don't think the salary bump outweighs the costs for me. Looks like psych avg comp according to medscape is 287k. But yeah, the money is not really motivating me rn.

2. I won't mind. This I know.

4. This presses on me. I hear it a lot IRL. Why would you quit if you're knocking out the exams? But that in itself can't be a reason to just keep doing it :c. Tbh, I was half wishing I would fail Step so I would have a fork in the road but now there's even more momentum to just keep doing what I've been doing. Sorry, I'm a little mopey in my responses. Trying to keep my head up through this.

That was last year's compensation report. The 2023 one was released 5 days ago:

Really, you only have one year to go. Fourth year is a period for relaxation and applying to residency programs. If you're tired of the grind and don't want to keep burning out, just aim to match into a chill, low-call community psychiatry program. Please don't make any rash decisions; the decision to leave medicine would most likely be a permanent one.

 

[AhhThnacks]

I am more contrarian; if pursuing something else would make you a lot happier, then do it. Medicine is only going to get worse in the US (red tape, regulation. bureaucracy, encroachment, reimbursement, etc.).

The one thing I would say is, if you can hang in for your degree try to. I wish you the best.

 

[finalpsychyear]

5. Thanks for your input. You're right--I was misremembering the starting salaries I saw on gaswork.com. In any case, still, I don't think the salary bump outweighs the costs for me. Looks like psych avg comp according to medscape is 287k. But yeah, the money gap is not really motivating me rn.

2. I won't mind. This I know.

4. This presses on me. I hear it a lot IRL. Why would you quit if you're knocking out the exams? But that in itself can't be a reason to just keep doing it :c. Tbh, I was half wishing I would fail Step so I would have a fork in the road but now there's even more momentum to just keep doing what I've been doing. Sorry, I'm a little mopey in my responses. Trying to keep my head up through this.

I would advise looking into a 1 year LOA if your really dead set on dropping out. I did this and it totally refreshed my overall desire. Also, it never hurts to get some counseling to help if there are other issues going on or just to help the overall process. I considered dental school and MBA during my year off. Thank the gods all I needed was a year to chill and sorta get bored and it now put everything in perspective.

IMO you worked your ass off to be in the position you are in now. Make sure you err on the side of taking a break before finally pulling the plug on the MD. MS4 year is a joke to be honest. Sort of a once in a life opportunity. Hope you talk to not just professors but counselors too. You want this decision to be as objective as possible and if your burned out physically, emotionally, life has its drama with family, breakups, etc but make sure those don't dictate your in the moment decision. Btw had i dropped out would have been the biggest regret of my life and now I have one of the best life styles possible and $.

 

[deleted1065184]

Was there anything in particular that provoked this decision, or has it been festering over years? I understand not wanting to play the game anymore. You keep telling yourself "means to an end", but after while that's not always good enough. My concern is that you'll make this major decision, but then ultimately still not find happiness in a career as an AA either. And then you've finished 3/4 med school and maybe AA school, but still not finding happiness.

Another question I have is what do you think the likelihood is that you'd regret finishing med school and doing residency? Similarly, how does that compare to the likelihood that you'd regret not finishing med school and doing residency?

 

[executivewaffle]

Was there anything in particular that provoked this decision, or has it been festering over years?

Both. This has been festering for years. At first it was just due to anxiety and not bc of a real conviction that I was on the wrong path. I stepped up to the challenge mostly due to external coaxing and did very well in school. No academic issues to put on the brakes.

I had huge introspective breakthroughs during dedicated when I had tons and tons of free time all of a sudden. I realized that I had a lot of issues as a young adult + a couple undiagnosed disorders (now diagnosed and treated) that really clouded my judgment and led me to getting into med school. Sorry for being vague but it's pretty personal (not too hard to decipher if you're savvy though). Now that I'm in a better place, I can really see how poor my decision making was.

My concern is that you'll make this major decision, but then ultimately still not find happiness in a career as an AA either. And then you've finished 3/4 med school and maybe AA school, but still not finding happiness.

Yes, but I figure that it'll cost me less in time and effort. Anyway, I don't expect AA to be a panacea, just a realistic route I can execute and enjoy at times with the ups and downs of any job.

Another question I have is what do you think the likelihood is that you'd regret finishing med school and doing residency? Similarly, how does that compare to the likelihood that you'd regret not finishing med school and doing residency?

I have a creeping feeling that I will regret doing medicine. It has taken a lot from me. I can see it in photos. I feel it. It will continue to take and I'm afraid I'll look back at all these years I've lost for no good reason. however, i keep getting told that i don't understand what I'm giving up and that dropping out will be the biggest mistake of my life. i feel very stuck.

 

[chilly_md]

Applying and waiting to start school adds another year on top of the training. You won’t have access to loans during that time, so you would have to figure out your living situation (and perhaps move). Then move again. You’d be in 4th year by this point if you stayed in medical school and would have a more laid-back year compared to having to re-do pre-clinical material for the AA program.

 

[operaman]

Going to join the others and advocate sticking it out. The time difference is minimal and the opportunity cost is huge.

In reality, if you drop now and apply AA, assuming you get in at all, you may have a year or two before you start. Then you have 2 years of school, so 3-4 years before you would start practicing.

For med school, you have less than 2 years before you start practice. As an anesthesia resident you’re basically an AA anyhow, though paid much less. But in terms of your day to day, there would be many similarities. In terms of income lost, it’s really a wash when you account for the time difference, tuition, etc.

You don’t have to have a clinical career with an MD, but you do with an AA. If you could do an anesthesia residency, you could essentially have the same day to day as an AA with much higher pay, and you could have many other potential clinical and non clinical options.

 

[ACSurgeon]

I think I've had my fill of medical training. The prospect of finishing MD school and then doing residency, taking Step 2 and 3, shelves, inservice, boards is hard for me to stomach. I want to cut down on training time. I know AA school will be hard too, has its own board exam and renewal exams, but 2 years over 6 is much more manageable for me. The benefits of being an anesthesiologist or a physician over an assistant don't matter to me (i.e. autonomy) and are not worth the costs for me. I am more than happy with the choice of AA states.

I’ll join the rest. You’re not making a correct time/effort comparison. You’ll have just as many exams if you start AA school as you have from now until the end of training… also the 2 vs 6 years is probably 4 vs 6 (it’ll likely take a couple years to shift gears). But even if it was 2 vs 6, your rush to “start life” 4 years sooner will cost you for the next 30-40 years. Not just money, but career opportunities.

The only reason to change to AA is if you’re 100% sure you want to be an assistant instead of the person in charge (not wanting the responsibility of being the top of the food chain). That’s a hard thing to know now, because training will give you the tools to become an independent anesthesiologist and since you don’t currently have these tools it can seem more daunting than it needs to be.

If the toll of medicine is such that you want to leave it despite the huge financial and career losses, I would strongly suggest you get a job outside of healthcare. The constant reminder of what could have been might make it a lot less satisfying compared to your other AA colleagues. Also when you’re 45-55-60 years old and have a 30 year old freshly minted anesthesiologist coming to supervise you and tell you that you have to do things their way because that’s their preference or because they think less of your AA training or think what you learned is outdated, that’ll sting too

 

[deleted1065184]

Both. This has been festering for years. At first it was just due to anxiety and not bc of a real conviction that I was on the wrong path. I stepped up to the challenge mostly due to external coaxing and did very well in school. No academic issues to put on the brakes.

I had huge introspective breakthroughs during dedicated when I had tons and tons of free time all of a sudden. I realized that I had a lot of issues as a young adult + a couple undiagnosed disorders (now diagnosed and treated) that really clouded my judgment and led me to getting into med school. Sorry for being vague but it's pretty personal (not too hard to decipher if you're savvy though). Now that I'm in a better place, I can really see how poor my decision making was.


Yes, but I figure that it'll cost me less in time and effort. Anyway, I don't expect AA to be a panacea, just a realistic route I can execute and enjoy at times with the ups and downs of any job.


I have a creeping feeling that I will regret doing medicine. It has taken a lot from me. I can see it in photos. I feel it. It will continue to take and I'm afraid I'll look back at all these years I've lost for no good reason. however, i keep getting told that i don't understand what I'm giving up and that dropping out will be the biggest mistake of my life. i feel very stuck.

Thank you for responding to this, and so thoughtfully. I understand where you're coming from. It's clear you've thought about this deeply over an extended period of time.

One thing that's a bit frustrating, which ofc has nothing to do with you, is that it appears to me that the structure of medical training is the driving factor here, not a sudden realization that you don't have a passion for medicine or treating humans...but rather, a realization that you're not willing to make the sacrifices necessary to complete the training.

And I understand that deeply. I've seen too many heartbreaking stories of people choosing to end their lives during residency. I'm glad you are prioritizing yourself, and I hope that by making this decision you are able to find contentment and happiness. Life is more than medicine.

I don't have the answers, but something needs to be done about the structure of medical training to make it more human-centered.

This seems like you are choosing yourself, and I don't think we should ever regret choosing ourselves. Good luck to you, and I wish you happiness in whatever you choose to do.

 

[deleted1065184]

One additional thing that I'll add is that I, like the others who comments, have a propensity to choose the "stick it out" route. I'm at the end of year 7/9 of MD+PhD training (if you include gap year to do research, 8/10), so that's what I've always told myself.

But I recognize that this is typically a core characteristic of those who choose such long, arduous paths with extremely delayed gratification. But stepping outside of myself for just one moment and thinking about society broadly, many people choose not to pursue medicine because of the exact reasons you've described.

It's not aberrant thinking, just a bit hard for folks who choose this route to grasp. It seems like there were some factors that caused you to make decisions not in line with your true feelings and beliefs when choosing medical school, and now you're realizing your judgement was clouded at the time.

If you can make it at least until the end of medical school, that would be really great. You may not believe the MD would be useful for you, but the future is hard to predict. It certainly won't hurt to have. But if you don't think you can make it through the final year, do what you need to do to prioritize yourself and your wellbeing.

 

[Just D.O. it]

It's not aberrant thinking, just a bit hard for folks who choose this route to grasp.

I don't think most of us are having trouble grasping what OP is feeling.

Its more so that if you step back and think about it, the time table just doesn't make much sense. It would be one thing if it was a hesitant incoming med student feeling this way, but OP has gotten through clinicals and passed STEP 1 already. They only have two years of "school" left which is how long AA school is anyway. The alternative to "sticking it out" is not really much shorter or easier in this case.

Also regarding "true feelings and beliefs", its not like OP has suddenly found a deep passion for law or accounting or something. OP's choice of "out" is a field very adjacent to the pre-med-->med student pipeline. I don't believe these feelings are OP's passion or spiritual truth. I think its the burn-out talking.

Like @operaman said, if OP drops out today and starts applying to AA school and gets in on his first try, then OP will become an AA at the same time he/she would have been a 2nd year anesthesia resident. And there is a lot of overlap between being a practicing AA and an anesthesia resident.

Are those 2 extra years of residency at lower pay than an AA not worth the 3x money + more career opportunities + much more geographic flexibility for the rest of your working life ?

In my opinion, the stress and burn out is preventing OP from being able to think straight and potentially make a decision they will regret for years down the line.

There will be no lack studying and bull**** to endure in AA school, OP. It's just how the system is designed in a broad sense not exclusive to med school.

I'd say 75% of young doctors I know were also jaded and less than enthusiastic by the 2nd half of third year, so you're just ahead of the curve. The good news is that with interests like anesthesia and psych, you wont even have to go out of your way to grovel for research or kiss @ss. If you just push through and do your time it will pay off, all of those former jaded med students(now doctors) I know are glad they stuck it out.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

Hey. I've been doing a lot of reflecting and I don't think this path is for me. I'm not interested in doing a residency or using my MD in another way. Surveying and studying all the core clerkships does not interest me. I'd rather just focus on a set of skills and start working. I like the OR. Not interested in being a surgeon (anymore) or an anesthesiologist. I've been thinking about dropping out to become a certified anesthesiology assistant. I'm in good academic standing. Passed Step 1. Anyone have any thoughts on this? If I'm being stupid let me know. If you know anyone who went this route, let me know also.

Most people who work in health care are wonderful. However, there are jerks. If you go to AA school and pursue that career, you are going to hate yourself every time you encounter an arrogant, condescending physician who makes a habit of smirking at mid-levels. It will only be worse if some jerk finds out you dropped out of med school when you were in good standing. They'll think you're lazy and foolish.

Stick out med school. Get the ultimate credential.

 

[Tenk]

You should just finish and become an anesthesiologist and then work a fraction of the time an AA would work for the same pay.

After several years of the same career it’s all the same crap anyways. It gets old no matter what you do, so it’s best to make the big bucks and just work less if money isn’t the end all be all.

 

[deleted1065184]

I don't think most of us are having trouble grasping what OP is feeling.

Its more so that if you step back and think about it, the time table just doesn't make much sense. It would be one thing if it was a hesitant incoming med student feeling this way, but OP has gotten through clinicals and passed STEP 1 already. They only have two years of "school" left which is how long AA school is anyway. The alternative to "sticking it out" is not really much shorter or easier in this case.

Also regarding "true feelings and beliefs", its not like OP has suddenly found a deep passion for law or accounting or something. OP's choice of "out" is a field very adjacent to the pre-med-->med student pipeline. I don't believe these feelings are OP's passion or spiritual truth. I think its the burn-out talking.

Like @operaman said, if OP drops out today and starts applying to AA school and gets in on his first try, then OP will become an AA at the same time he/she would have been a 2nd year anesthesia resident. And there is a lot of overlap between being a practicing AA and an anesthesia resident.

Are those 2 extra years of residency at lower pay than an AA not worth the 3x money + more career opportunities + much more geographic flexibility for the rest of your working life ?

In my opinion, the stress and burn out is preventing OP from being able to think straight and potentially make a decision they will regret for years down the line.

There will be no lack studying and bull**** to endure in AA school, OP. It's just how the system is designed in a broad sense not exclusive to med school.

I'd say 75% of young doctors I know were also jaded and less than enthusiastic by the 2nd half of third year, so you're just ahead of the curve. The good news is that with interests like anesthesia and psych, you wont even have to go out of your way to grovel for research or kiss @ss. If you just push through and do your time it will pay off, all of those former jaded med students(now doctors) I know are glad they stuck it out.

I feel like the issue with this response is that you're assuming you know what OP feels better than they do. I'm going based on what they said re: not choosing medicine for the right reason and realizing they didn't really like it vs burn out. Their decision may be influenced by burn out, idk...but I'm not going to force that on to them.

But what I do know is that people change their minds. When I was growing up, I wanted to go to the NFL my whole life. I made it to a D1 college and earned a starting position, but then I realized I wasn't really passionate about it. I was pursuing it because of other factors. I decided to quit during my second year and pursue science & medicine instead. Many people told me I was making the wrong decision and that I'd feel differently once I was in the league (assuming I'd make it, ofc). I could've toughed it out, tried to make the league, and given it a try. But it was a summer trip I took right before our training camp, where I was out of the country and able to be separated from all the pressure, that allowed me the space to realize I didn't want to keep playing football. Quitting was the best decision for me. Granted, I know this is not a perfect parallel with OP's situation, but just highlighting that sometimes people really do change their minds.

And the last point I'd really like to reiterate is that you don't have to explain any of the logic behind wanting OP to continue to me. I get it. There's a reason I'm in year 7/9, lol. But the thing about burnout is that medical institutions don't do anything to try and prevent/reduce it. The vast majority of us have to find a way to overcome it ourselves, while still being expected to perform and produce. You can't undervalue how serious burnout is. It has caused people to take their lives. And you can bet your bottom dollar that those people were being told by everybody around them just to keep pushing through it.

I don't know OP or the personal details of their desire, but I just don't like the way pretty much nobody is considering that, for OP, this could be bigger than the logic that is being shared.

 

[chilly_md]

I don't know OP or the personal details of their desire, but I just don't like the way pretty much nobody is considering that, for OP, this could be bigger than the logic that is being shared.

If the OP has lost interest in medicine or is that burnt out, changing to AA is not going to help with their problems (as touched upon by Just DO It). They would be better off leaving healthcare entirely.

 

[executivewaffle]

If the OP has lost interest in medicine or is that burnt out, changing to AA is not going to help with their problems (as touched upon by Just DO It). They would be better off leaving healthcare entirely.

Have definitely not lost interest in healthcare. Medicine is still fascinating. But wish I were involved in it in a different role.

Edit: Oh, I forgot to add that after deliberating (thanks for all your input, everyone), I have pretty much moved past the idea of dropping out. Now I'm just deciding if I need to take a short break (delay clinicals) or if I should let the momentum of M2/Step 1 carry me forward.

 

[deleted1065184]

If the OP has lost interest in medicine or is that burnt out, changing to AA is not going to help with their problems (as touched upon by Just DO It). They would be better off leaving healthcare entirely.

You don't think that the burnout caused by medicine is different than other healthcare professions? Bc I just don't believe that's right. Not saying you said that btw, I'm asking for clarity.

Residency is the most difficult phase that any healthcare worker goes through, by a landslide. The hours, responsibility, paperwork, etc that comes with being a physician can be avoided to a large degree in some other healthcare professions. And again, residency lol. For some people, the mental and physical toll residency can take on you is not worth it.

 

[chilly_md]

You don't think that the burnout caused by medicine is different than other healthcare professions? Bc I just don't believe that's right. Not saying you said that btw, I'm asking for clarity.

Residency is the most difficult phase that any healthcare worker goes through, by a landslide. The hours, responsibility, paperwork, etc that comes with being a physician can be avoided to a large degree in some other healthcare professions. And again, residency lol. For some people, the mental and physical toll residency can take on you is not worth it.

If they were already very burned out, they would need a complete reset and likely not be in patient care (and I assume they wouldn’t want to stay at a technician level).

For AA school specifically, those 2 years would grind them down further and would not be an escape.

The OP gave us an update and it seems these were not the case.

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

Have definitely not lost interest in healthcare. Medicine is still fascinating. But wish I were involved in it in a different role.

Edit: Oh, I forgot to add that after deliberating (thanks for all your input, everyone), I have pretty much moved past the idea of dropping out. Now I'm just deciding if I need to take a short break (delay clinicals) or if I should let the momentum of M2/Step 1 carry me forward.

Happy for you! When are your rotations scheduled to begin ? And which one would you have first up if you proceed directly?

 

[SonGoku751]

1. AAs can practice in only 20 states. There's little chance that this list will rapidly expand any time in the near future. (See #2)
2. The CRNA lobby is very powerful. CRNAs are able to practice independently in a majority of states. This adds a major element of uncertainty for the future AA job market. The threat of being entirely outcompeted by CRNAs is always looming.
3. While you don't mind the idea of being an "assistant" now, do you think you still won't mind when you're at the peak of your career? Some people don't like the idea of being a sidekick when they've achieved maximal growth in their chosen field.
4. A vast majority of students don't fail any third-year rotations, and 98% of US/Canadian MD students pass Step 2. Given the fact that you're in good standing at this point and passed Step 1, the rest of medical school shouldn't be too much of a grind.
5. "220-240k" isn't a typical starting salary for AAs; it's possible if you're getting a job in an undesirable rural location or if you're set to work insane hours. More likely, you'd be looking at $160-180k/year as a new graduate. The average salary for a psychiatrist is just over $300K/year, per the latest Medscape compensation report; I wouldn't count on ever making that much as an AA – and certainly not with the lifestyle and work-life balance of an average psychiatrist.

We’ve gained about a state a year for the past 4 years. Not rapid expansion but far from complete stagnation. And stay tuned… more are in the works and are coming along nicely.. and that’s in no small part due to support from the ASA and anesthesiologists. Thanks y’all!

220-240k offers doesn’t necessitate you’ll work rural or insane hours. That wage can still be secured at a metro or college town….in fact, I’d wager most of those opportunities are congregated in those type of areas due to the prevalence (or rather lack of) of the ACT at rural sites…. It’s just that those 240k postings are usually in the tornado valley or midwest lol. Tulsa, OKC, and even some Toledo employers all are offering starting base wages at 240k For only 40
Hours no call. Great OT incentives as well. You wouldn’t make 300k on a psych lifestyle at these sites, but you can hit that 300k figure while still having solid work life balance (especially relative to what the average physician endures). Doubly so if you opt for 1099 work.

I’ll concede, those are Maybe not the most desirable cities in the nation lol, but objectively not rural sites.

You’re right though in that 240k is not the typical starting wage, but nor is 160k in todays hot gas market. 200k for 40 no call is quickly becoming the new new grad norm in the south. Work physican hours and make physicanesque money. Its a Great ROI. But admittedly less so for someone in OPs position. He wouldn’t be the first to have made the jump to CAA at this stage in his medical training however.

speaking of which, Leaving medical school is no where near as deleterious for the CAA admissions process as it is for the PA world. CAA programs are looking for stellar pre med applications. And that’s what those that got into US MD programs have. Just have a compelling reason for why you left med school that’ll ease the admission committee’s concerns on you being a flake.

 

[Paradise City]

Hey. I've been doing a lot of reflecting and I don't think this path is for me. I'm not interested in doing a residency or using my MD in another way. Surveying and studying all the core clerkships does not interest me. I'd rather just focus on a set of skills and start working. I like the OR. Not interested in being a surgeon (anymore) or an anesthesiologist. I've been thinking about dropping out to become a certified anesthesiology assistant. I'm in good academic standing. Passed Step 1. Anyone have any thoughts on this? If I'm being stupid let me know. If you know anyone who went this route, let me know also.

I think this is a bad decision to be honest. Get your MD first, you've done a lot of work and you're near the finish line.

If you're a new M3, things do get better compared to M1 and M2, markedly so.

 

[deleted1065184]

I think this is a bad decision to be honest. Get your MD first, you've done a lot of work and you're near the finish line.

If you're a new M3, things do get better compared to M1 and M2, markedly so.

They've already decided to stay, now they're deciding whether to take a break before clinical or not.

 

[Esmolol]

If you're a new M3, things do get better compared to M1 and M2, markedly so.

WHAT?! 5 weeks till MS3 ends and I am still waiting for that to happen...

 

[Paradise City]

WHAT?! 5 weeks till MS3 ends and I am still waiting for that to happen...

Haha your mileage may vary

 

[pazzer2]

Have you thought about careers outside of clinical medicine? I'm an MD and have been working in the pharma industry as a research executive for 20+ years. Some of the things that physicians do in pharma: medical affairs, pharmacovigilance, drug safety, marketing, research lab, and clinical development.

No weekends, no call, no holidays. No risk of malpractice. Pay is better than clinical medicine, plus stock options. Plus the science is absolutely fascinating. Sounds like you are a little burned out. I hear you. Take a deep breath. There are many other things you can do with an MD degree.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Looks like OP decided to stay in medical school and no longer reading the thread ☺️