New MD school vs Long established DO

[OrdinaryDO]

Go MSUCOM all the way. I don't understand what some of these people are saying about "always MD over DO." People who say this lead me to believe they don't have a good understanding of how DO friendly Michigan is. MSUCOM is one of the oldest DO schools in the nation and they are very well established - not to mention their residencies are rock solid as well as their educational staff. Go MSU and ignore the bandwagon MD junkies.

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[OrdinaryDO]

So when you match, and lets say you match AOA, how does that change a year later when they are unified/post-merging?

There won't be any AOA residencies when he/she goes in to matriculate. Deadline is 2020 and they were supposed to have already filed for prelim status.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Go MSUCOM all the way. I don't understand what some of these people are saying about "always MD over DO." People who say this lead me to believe they don't have a good understanding of how DO friendly Michigan is. MSUCOM is one of the oldest DO schools in the nation and they are very well established - not to mention their residencies are rock solid as well as their educational staff. Go MSU and ignore the bandwagon MD junkies.

States like Michigan, Missouri, Oklahoma, and plenty of others are DO friendly. But all states are MD friendly and the ones that are DO friendly will always be able to be described as MD friendlier.

It sucks that in this situation going to the DO school might actually get you a better (or at least more consistent and organized) education. But it's still better to go MD.


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[AnatomyGrey12]

Go MSUCOM all the way. I don't understand what some of these people are saying about "always MD over DO." People who say this lead me to believe they don't have a good understanding of how DO friendly Michigan is. MSUCOM is one of the oldest DO schools in the nation and they are very well established - not to mention their residencies are rock solid as well as their educational staff. Go MSU and ignore the bandwagon MD junkies.

This is bad advice dude... it is a totally bury your head in the sand approach..

 

[OrdinaryDO]

This is bad advice dude... it is a totally buty your head in the sand approach..

I guess Goro gives bad advice too, then? A brand new MD school vs one of the most established DO schools in probably the most DO friendly state in America....you don't have a clue what you're talking about if you think for a second this isn't even a viable option. I can understand you not choosing this path, but if you say there is no way this is viable in any manner then I wouldn't take advice from you in the future. Go look at the statistics from MSUCOM, then look at the tuition and look at their hospital and residency affiliation...where do you see a discrepancy? If you are going to say my advice is bad, then explain yourself further than just the fact that you don't agree. Tell me WHY..


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[Dr.Jekyll75]

 

[AlteredScale]

I guess Goro gives bad advice too, then? A brand new MD school vs one of the most established DO schools in probably the most DO friendly state in America....you don't have a clue what you're talking about if you think for a second this isn't even a viable option. I can understand you not choosing this path, but if you say there is no way this is viable in any manner then I wouldn't take advice from you in the future. Go look at the statistics from MSUCOM, then look at the tuition and look at their hospital and residency affiliation...where do you see a discrepancy? If you are going to say my advice is bad, then explain yourself further than just the fact that you don't agree. Tell me WHY..


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If OP wants to pursue academic medicine or surgical and competitive non surgical subspecialties at university medical centers on the coasts and even many in the Midwest he will be limited even coming from MSU which is a strong DO school no doubt but WMed will have matches that MSUCOM has yet to even send their grads into after even IN Michigan.




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[OrdinaryDO]

If OP wants to pursue academic medicine or surgical and competitive non surgical subspecialties at university medical centers on the coasts and even many in the Midwest he will be limited even coming from MSU which is a strong DO school no doubt but WMed will have matches that MSUCOM has yet to even send their grads into after even IN Michigan.




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You make up scenarios where, of course, its going to be difficult for DOs to manage. However, OP said in their original post that They are a Michigan native and insinuated staying in Michigan by referencing in-state residencies. What percentage of physicians go into research academic fields? DOs can practice at academic facilities this is a fact, because my state is heavily in favor of DOs and DOs flood all of our academic teaching hospitals. I'm not seeing a logical explanation to deny the DO school for the preferences set out by the OP.


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[AnatomyGrey12]

I guess Goro gives bad advice too, then? A brand new MD school vs one of the most established DO schools in probably the most DO friendly state in America....you don't have a clue what you're talking about if you think for a second this isn't even a viable option. I can understand you not choosing this path, but if you say there is no way this is viable in any manner then I wouldn't take advice from you in the future. Go look at the statistics from MSUCOM, then look at the tuition and look at their hospital and residency affiliation...where do you see a discrepancy? If you are going to say my advice is bad, then explain yourself further than just the fact that you don't agree. Tell me WHY..


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Because a very average student from WMed will have options that even good MSU applicants won't have, it's that simple. If you deny this then you have buried your head in the sand.

DOs can practice at academic facilities this is a fact, because my state is heavily in favor of DOs and DOs flood all of our academic teaching hospitals.

Being from OK you have an extremely limited view, but even then go look at the residency programs and faculty at the main OU hospital, not what I would call "flooded with DOs". DOs are extremely limited when it comes to academic medicine and anything surgical, not to mention that in ANY field you will have more, and often better options with the MD.

 

[OrdinaryDO]

Because a very average student from WMed will have options that even good MSU applicants won't have, it's that simple. If you deny this then you have buried your head in the sand.



Being from OK you have an extremely limited view, but even then go look at the residency programs and faculty at the main OU hospital, not what I would call "flooded with DOs". DOs are extremely limited when it comes to academic medicine and anything surgical, not to mention that in ANY field you will have more, and often better options with the MD.

Lol, my friend, don't comment on unfamiliar areas unless you plan to do your research first. You are very greatly mistaken and misguided with your post. No one cares about the OU hospital, at all. Sure, it's good, but it is by far not what I am talking about. We have a numerous selection of major hospitals in the city I reside. We have a magnet hospital as well as two other hospitals within 5 miles of one another with 750+ beds in each hospital. If you look at how many DOs graduate compared to how many are in the hospitals, our hiring rate per capital is higher than that of MDs right now. We have two designated hospitals, one being a major hospital and the other being our own teaching hospital as well as MANY other hospitals between those sizes. There are residency programs independently ran with cooperation of the surrounding hospitals that also take in DOs.

We live in 2016, buddy. Quit thinking like the Old PDs and get up to date on your times. Sure, some places filter out for LCME, but those programs are probably super tough for even the MD students. Also, don't take this the wrong way OP, but if you were smart enough to get into those residencies in the first place, then you'd have offers from more than just a new MD school. Find me an established MD offer and I will probably get on board with the two of you, but right now I think MSU is the better choice hands down.


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[OrdinaryDO]

Because a very average student from WMed will have options that even good MSU applicants won't have, it's that simple. If you deny this then you have buried your head in the sand.



Being from OK you have an extremely limited view, but even then go look at the residency programs and faculty at the main OU hospital, not what I would call "flooded with DOs". DOs are extremely limited when it comes to academic medicine and anything surgical, not to mention that in ANY field you will have more, and often better options with the MD.

PS, just in my city alone we are breaking the mold on DOs being nonexistent in certain fields. We have two plastic and reconstructive DO surgeons in he same hospital here and more in training and we have a TON of DO surgeons as well. It depends on your location, but here we have nothing to worry about..


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[DrBowtie]

PS, just in my city alone we are breaking the mold on DOs being nonexistent in certain fields. We have two plastic and reconstructive DO surgeons in he same hospital here and more in training and we have a TON of DO surgeons as well. It depends on your location, but here we have nothing to worry about..


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Those plastic surgeons started training 7+ years ago. To quote you: "We live in 2016". The pathway to plastic surgery going forward will look very different than when they trained. There will be no more AOA exclusive programs and continued trend towards integrated plastics programs.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

We live in 2016, buddy. Quit thinking like the Old PDs and get up to date on your times. Sure, some places filter out for LCME, but those programs are probably super tough for even the MD students. Also, don't take this the wrong way OP, but if you were smart enough to get into those residencies in the first place, then you'd have offers from more than just a new MD school. Find me an established MD offer and I will probably get on board with the two of you, but right now I think MSU is the better choice hands down.

Get up to date? Have you even looked at the charting by outcomes? Have you looked at the match lists of recent first time graduating MD classes? Go take a gander at FAU, the best DO matches across the country combined don't come close to touching it. If you think I'm wrong I don't even know what to tell you. The numbers do not lie, but apparently I'm the one out of touch.

Not every program that filters out DOs is the tippy top. Very normal, average low and mid tier programs in almost every single specialty will either outright filter DO applicants or hold them to a much higher standard. Look at IM, do you know how easy it is for an average MD student to match university level IM? Much easier than an average DO student.

When I say academics I was specifically talking about academic residencies and faculty at university level programs. You also can't point at the Osteopathic teaching hospital and say, "see! Tons of DOs!" 🙄

The bolded is an extremely dumb statement.

PS, just in my city alone we are breaking the mold on DOs being nonexistent in certain fields. We have two plastic and reconstructive DO surgeons in he same hospital here and more in training and we have a TON of DO surgeons as well. It depends on your location, but here we have nothing to worry about..

Yeah I personally know a DO urologist and ophthalmologist at my hospital who trained at MD programs, doesn't mean anything at all to the disadvantage DOs face in surgical fields...

 

[OrdinaryDO]

Get up to date? Have you even looked at the charting by outcomes? Have you looked at the match lists of recent first time graduating MD classes? Go take a gander at FAU, the best DO matches across the country combined don't come close to touching it. If you think I'm wrong I don't even know what to tell you. The numbers do not lie, but apparently I'm the one out of touch.

Not every program that filters out DOs is the tippy top. Very normal, average low and mid tier programs in almost every single specialty will either outright filter DO applicants or hold them to a much higher standard. Look at IM, do you know how easy it is for an average MD student to match university level IM? Much easier than an average DO student.

When I say academics I was specifically talking about academic residencies and faculty at university level programs. You also can't point at the Osteopathic teaching hospital and say, "see! Tons of DOs!" 🙄

The bolded is an extremely dumb statement.



Yeah I personally know a DO urologist and ophthalmologist at my hospital who trained at MD programs, doesn't mean anything at all to the disadvantage DOs face in surgical fields...

You're set in your ways and blind to any suggestions contradicting your view points. With that being said I don't feel like arguing with you anymore. I didn't quote you and say you were wrong in the beginning. You say I am wrong, but provide no evidence. The only person from Michigan here is an MD student who can't even attest to the DO side of things. I know what it's like to be in a DO friendly area and believe me, I know the limitations, but in MY opinion I would choose MSUCOM over a brand new MD school in THIS situation. That's my final answer and I'm done trying to justify it to people for no reason.


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[Rekt]

This is a non-decision. You go to an MD school over a DO school. It's very simple.

 

[AlteredScale]

You make up scenarios where, of course, its going to be difficult for DOs to manage. However, OP said in their original post that They are a Michigan native and insinuated staying in Michigan by referencing in-state residencies. What percentage of physicians go into research academic fields? DOs can practice at academic facilities this is a fact, because my state is heavily in favor of DOs and DOs flood all of our academic teaching hospitals. I'm not seeing a logical explanation to deny the DO school for the preferences set out by the OP.


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I get what your saying but I never assumed OP wants to stay in MI. If that's the case then fine but I still don't see why you would just be fine wth closing doors on yourself. A 250 at MSUCOM wouldn't get them an interview at Umich for any surgery program. Yet a 240 from MSUCHM or WMed would. A 230 from MSUCOM would limit them at interviewing at both mid and top tier IM programs that an MD grad with the same or even lower (225-230) would. The justification that "oh it's hard for MD students too so it doesn't matter" is hogwash to me. Why put yourself in that position?

And I wasn't addressing DOs being at teaching hospitals in general. Every OPTI is a teaching hospital so yeah, they are there. I'm specifically saying DOs within university (MD) medical hospitals. They are the minority in many states beyond the Midwest.


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[OrdinaryDO]

I get what your saying but I never assumed OP wants to stay in MI. If that's the case then fine but I still don't see why you would just be fine wth closing doors on yourself. A 250 at MSUCOM wouldn't get them an interview at Umich for any surgery program. Yet a 240 from MSUCHM or WMed would. A 230 from MSUCOM would limit them at interviewing at both mid and top tier IM programs that an MD grad with the same or even lower (225-230) would. The justification that "oh it's hard for MD students too so it doesn't matter" is hogwash to me. Why put yourself in that position?

And I wasn't addressing DOs being at teaching hospitals in general. Every OPTI is a teaching hospital so yeah, they are there. I'm specifically saying DOs within university (MD) medical hospitals. They are the minority in many states beyond the Midwest.


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I posted on this forum my opinion of what I think OP should do, per OP's request. I said some people were blind to other facts about how Michigan is very DO friendly and just how much influence MSUCOM has in the area. My view was with an assumption that he/she would want to stay at home in Michigan like the majority of people do. It is infuriating to see some of these misguided people in here just repeat what they read on other threads without looking at any evidence of ANY kind. The new MD vs established DO marginal difference is not big AT ALL. I would put MSU above the school any day. However, I value things such as quality of education, staff, school location, and established programs. I'm not looking to change medicine across the board. My goals are to learn as much as I can, score well on boards, get into a residency of interest, and serve my community. Some people on this forum have a point of view of "Every OP is looking to enter top residency programs, blah blah."

Anyway, I'm not here to argue or call people wrong. I just voiced my opinion and now I'm finished lol.


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[AnatomyGrey12]

It is infuriating to see some of these misguided people in here just repeat what they read on other threads without looking at any evidence of ANY kind

Who? I dare say it isn't you who hasn't looked at any evidence. You said I didn't provide any but you conveniently forgot the fact that I specifically referenced the charting outcomes.

The new MD vs established DO marginal difference is not big AT ALL.

What gives you any authority to say this? What data do you have?

However, I value things such as quality of education, staff, school location, and established programs. I'm not looking to change medicine across the board. My goals are to learn as much as I can, score well on boards, get into a residency of interest, and serve my community.

And people who go to MD schools don't? Who says a newer school can't? OP wouldn't be in a first class. When you have the option to make getting your residency of interest easier, no matter what it is, why would you not consider it?

Some people on this forum have a point of view of "Every OP is looking to enter top residency programs, blah blah."

Nobody said that and like I said, it is not just "top" programs or specialties that discriminate against DOs. Go look at the PD survey at how many consider and rank DOs, the DO percentage is always lower than the MD percentage, usually by a significant amount.


I think you feel that I am bashing on DOs, which is not the case at all. I will be proud to be one, and you and I will most likely be classmates. We do agree on one thing, OK is a great place to be as a DO student and OSU is a fantastic school to attend. Going to a school with home residency programs will be a huge advantage over the other DO schools.

But when you look at the data for residency matching the MD gives a clear advantage in every aspect. This in no way insinuates that DOs are somehow inferior.

 

[poloboy]

I currently work in a department (competitive speciality) at a top-notch medical center, and I had the opportunity to speak with the PD there about their preference with DOs versus MDs. He told me that it was false for programs to use a "Non-LCME" filter and that at least he hadn't before and didn't plan on anytime after the merger. This guy is credible because our department takes in four residents each year and two are usually DOs. Personally, I had always thought that DOs could never get in to a competitive speciality for the reasons mentioned in the posts above, but after this conversation with this PD, I've been hopeful. I no longer worry about matriculating at an osteopathic medical school over an allopathic one.

My advice to OP: choose a school you feel that you'll excel at. Follow your heart and intuition. Don't let the noise of others' opinions drown out your own true potential. Do well on boards. Make connections. Work hard at either the new MD school or the long-established DO school. And everything else is secondary!

 

[Ho0v-man]

I posted on this forum my opinion of what I think OP should do, per OP's request. I said some people were blind to other facts about how Michigan is very DO friendly and just how much influence MSUCOM has in the area. My view was with an assumption that he/she would want to stay at home in Michigan like the majority of people do. It is infuriating to see some of these misguided people in here just repeat what they read on other threads without looking at any evidence of ANY kind. The new MD vs established DO marginal difference is not big AT ALL. I would put MSU above the school any day. However, I value things such as quality of education, staff, school location, and established programs. I'm not looking to change medicine across the board. My goals are to learn as much as I can, score well on boards, get into a residency of interest, and serve my community. Some people on this forum have a point of view of "Every OP is looking to enter top residency programs, blah blah."

Anyway, I'm not here to argue or call people wrong. I just voiced my opinion and now I'm finished lol.


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I could agree with you that the established state DO school might have things more organized and may have less "hiccups" in their curriculum, etc. When one considers just those issues, MSUCOM most likely would come out ahead. That makes sense.

But at the end of the day, one program produces candidates who apply for residency and their apps get filtered out. The other program is an MD school. That's why they should go to the MD school. Even in FM, DO apps get filtered out from some top programs.

Also, do you even know anything about MSUCOM? You're literally arguing with people WHO LIVE IN MICHIGAN about how great it is? Do you not see how ridiculous that is?


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[68PGunner]

I could agree with you that the established state DO school might have things more organized and may have less "hiccups" in their curriculum, etc. When one considers just those issues, MSUCOM most likely would come out ahead. That makes sense.

But at the end of the day, one program produces candidates who apply for residency and their apps get filtered out. The other program is an MD school. That's why they should go to the MD school. Even in FM, DO apps get filtered out from some top programs.

Also, do you even know anything about MSUCOM? You're literally arguing with people WHO LIVE IN MICHIGAN about how great it is? Do you not see how ridiculous that is?
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LOL. Come on, bro... This tells me that you have been spending too much time on SDN.

 

[AlteredScale]

I posted on this forum my opinion of what I think OP should do, per OP's request. I said some people were blind to other facts about how Michigan is very DO friendly and just how much influence MSUCOM has in the area. My view was with an assumption that he/she would want to stay at home in Michigan like the majority of people do. It is infuriating to see some of these misguided people in here just repeat what they read on other threads without looking at any evidence of ANY kind. The new MD vs established DO marginal difference is not big AT ALL. I would put MSU above the school any day. However, I value things such as quality of education, staff, school location, and established programs. I'm not looking to change medicine across the board. My goals are to learn as much as I can, score well on boards, get into a residency of interest, and serve my community. Some people on this forum have a point of view of "Every OP is looking to enter top residency programs, blah blah."

Anyway, I'm not here to argue or call people wrong. I just voiced my opinion and now I'm finished lol.


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Just FYI I'm not trying to make this into an emotional "I'm right, you're wrong". We can have a decent debate about this stuff and that is A-OK.

I wanted to adress the fact that the quality and staff of WMed that I think helps to reassure OP that this new school knows what they are doing:

Currently, there are 676 appointed faculty, 111 of which have primary appointments to the medical school. The school already has such strong and grounded clinical affiliations that they have welcomed MSUCOM students to rotate at their Kalamazoo base campus which are two Level 1 Tertiary Centers. (Source: http://med.wmich.edu/education/students/current-msu-students/com). Their orthopedic surgery program is headed by someone who spearheaded the Spine Surgery Fellowship at Feinberg NorthwesternU SOM (Source: http://med.wmich.edu/news-and-event...wmeds-orthopaedic-surgery-residency-meet-dr-0). The assistant and associate deans have had experience running departments from UTHSC, JHU, TOHSU COM, even their chair of educational affairs had direct appointments to the AAMC (the group that leads the way for MD granting medical schools in many aspects).

I do not a see much of a lack of quality here and again, even if MSUCOM were to have extremely better quality, a successful WMed student would have more specialties and locations to apply to even if it were just in MI.

Now I agree with you, not every student wants to pursue "prestigious university program at a top tier institute" but what if in the middle of medical school they meet a professor that inspires them to pursue such a path? Then what? They just made it quite a bit harder to get there path because WMed grads can pursue something like a IM track focused in on medical education at mount sinai hospital (http://icahn.mssm.edu/education/res...rnal-medicine-residency/education/categorical). MSUCOM grads have yet to go there in their years of being a medical school but they can go to St Lukes/Mt Sinai but unfortunately, there is no MedEd track there for them. Yes I am aware that you do not NEED to do this track to get into academics, what I am stating is opportunity and resources for them that are available and not locked up simply because they are DO.

 

[Ho0v-man]

LOL. Come on, bro... This tells me that you have been spending too much time on SDN.

Should have put "highly desirable" programs.

Edit: You're probably right. I should just delete this app from my phone.


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[OrdinaryDO]

Just FYI I'm not trying to make this into an emotional "I'm right, you're wrong". We can have a decent debate about this stuff and that is A-OK.

I wanted to adress the fact that the quality and staff of WMed that I think helps to reassure OP that this new school knows what they are doing:

Currently, there are 676 appointed faculty, 111 of which have primary appointments to the medical school. The school already has such strong and grounded clinical affiliations that they have welcomed MSUCOM students to rotate at their Kalamazoo base campus which are two Level 1 Tertiary Centers. (Source: http://med.wmich.edu/education/students/current-msu-students/com). Their orthopedic surgery program is headed by someone who spearheaded the Spine Surgery Fellowship at Feinberg NorthwesternU SOM (Source: http://med.wmich.edu/news-and-event...wmeds-orthopaedic-surgery-residency-meet-dr-0). The assistant and associate deans have had experience running departments from UTHSC, JHU, TOHSU COM, even their chair of educational affairs had direct appointments to the AAMC (the group that leads the way for MD granting medical schools in many aspects).

I do not a see much of a lack of quality here and again, even if MSUCOM were to have extremely better quality, a successful WMed student would have more specialties and locations to apply to even if it were just in MI.

Now I agree with you, not every student wants to pursue "prestigious university program at a top tier institute" but what if in the middle of medical school they meet a professor that inspires them to pursue such a path? Then what? They just made it quite a bit harder to get there path because WMed can pursue something like a IM track focused in on medical education at mount sinai hospital (http://icahn.mssm.edu/education/res...rnal-medicine-residency/education/categorical). MSUCOM grads have yet to go their but they can go to St Lukes/Mt Sinai but that MedEd track is not their for them. Yes I am aware that you do not NEED to do this track to get into academics, what I am stating is opportunity and resources for them that are available and not locked up simply because they are DO.

Yeah, I understand and I like a good debate when I'm up for it. I just didn't mean for this to turn into a debate and I don't have the energy or time to debate an opinion for no real gain. At the end of the day people are going to walk away with their opinions and it doesn't matter.

 

[Lawpy]

Well hello preemies + elders.

I have a unique predicament and it revolves around the decision of heading to a new MD school versus one of the most established DO schools (MSUCOM). I am at a loss because I truly love MSUCOM. I just do plain and simple.

The problem is this. I don't really know what I want to do yet in terms of what type of medicine. I don't know if I want to have a surgical aspect or not versus private practice versus who knows what else. I am heading into med school with an open mind that something will perk me up and strike a passion. I know something will I just don't feel comfortable declaring anything until I've seen it at the level we do in med school.

What are some of the downfalls of attending a new MD school versus MSUCOM? I reside in michigan by the way (very DO friendly). There seems to be a consensus that no matter what attend an MD but would a new MD school have the quality of rotations to really validate that?

Thoughts?


@Goro

always go for US MD over US DO: a new US MD school intrinsically provides better advantages and results than an established US DO school. there are many reasons as to why that is (and they were all covered well by @Affiche @AlteredScale @AnatomyGrey12 )

 

[Neopolymath]

No one has even mentioned the fact that you have to deal with OPP instead of doing something more useful with your time if you go DO. The time you spend on OPP comes from the time you would otherwise budget for other activities school related or not.

 

[Dr.Jekyll75]

OMM is two hours a week at com and most people are on their phones doing anki or firecracker so no real lose there. To OP, if you are still reading this. Go to Wmed. Even though I want to tell you to go to MSUCOM, I'm ignoring my bias and telling you not to go to com because of all the reasons mentioned above .


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[Neopolymath]

OMM is two hours a week at com and most people are on their phones doing anki or firecracker so no real lose there. To OP, if you are still reading this. Go to Wmed. Even though I want to tell you to go to MSUCOM, I'm ignoring my bias and telling you not to go to com because of all the reasons mentioned above .


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Does that include lecture and lab? you also have to factor in the time studying for it for practicals and exams, not to mention taking a separate set of extra boards. I also think about the opportunity cost and flexibility. Yeah you are in the class doing something else but you still have to be in the class instead of anywhere else you want to be. I think it adds up to a lot.

 

[Dr.Jekyll75]

extra test yes, but we do lab and lecture at the same time thats why its only two hours. Regardless my stance is the same Wmed. The era where being a DO did not effect you too much is gone with the merger. We dont have a separate Match to keep us safe. Now, more than ever its MD vs DO vs IMG vs FMG. No one wants to go into a fight with a hand tied behind their back.

 

[Neopolymath]

extra test yes, but we do lab and lecture at the same time thats why its only two hours. Regardless my stance is the same Wmed. The era where being a DO did not effect you too much is gone with the merger. We dont have a separate Match to keep us safe. Now, more than ever its MD vs DO vs IMG vs FMG. No one wants to go into a fight with a hand tied behind their back.

That is nice to hear about how that school does OPP. I agree with you though regarding always going MD. I just wanted to bring this point up because it has been ignored lately as yet another reason to avoid DO, if possible. I have no doubt it will be a huge pain in the ass for me next year, but at least I'm going in eyes wide open and with a plan...

 

[IslandStyle808]

For those of you who don't understand how PDs look at applicants, I have the current PD report of 2016 attached. It shows the break down of what they look for and who they interview.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/NRMP-2016-Program-Director-Survey.pdf

Program directors in general use a non-LCME filter as a way to weed the herd, so this prevents an applicant from even being looked at (think of them like the filters that medical school use to filter applications below 3.0 GPA). Programs even at the mid-tier range will still use the filter for DOs or foreign medical graduates, this is just a matter of preference. However, remember there are confounding elements also as to why DO don't do was well as their MD counter parts. DOs don't have as high USMLE scores, they don't have as much research, and functioning in a residency team maybe an issue. So there are a lot of factors that lead to DO not matching well and not just the degree alone, but it still limits you.

 

[JB50]

I have no interest in academic medicine. This thread has taken quite the course.

 

[JB50]

. Also, don't take this the wrong way OP, but if you were smart enough to get into those residencies in the first place, then you'd have offers from more than just a new MD school.


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This unfortunately cuts your credibility brosef. On that line of logic, your DO acceptance/education is less than impressive and you are a bottom feeder in intelligence. But we both know that isn't true, is it.

Any educated medical student knows that there is a lot more that goes into getting into medical school (DO and MD) than "smarts" whatever that means.

 

[Shotapp]

So the consensus is to go MD no matter what?

 

[Dr.Jekyll75]

So the consensus is to go MD no matter what?

To play a broken record again for the 100th time yes. Us MD > DO > IMG > FMG. It's not about who's smarter it's about which one grants you the most opportunities.


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[femmegoblue]

So the consensus is to go MD no matter what?

I think the consensus is go MD if it's not Cal Northstate.

I personally think MSUCOM and other state/public DO schools are a blip when it comes to this rule. If you love primary care and know it's what you want to do, I think most would agree MSUCOM is a smart choice. If you are undecided or are interested in specializing, I think new MD schools are still the way to go and will be taking this advice myself. Like others have said, no need to shut doors on yourself before you even begin.

 

[Shotapp]

I am sorry for repeating a question that has been beaten to death. I am urm (blk) and currently in the process of raising my undergrad science GPA for DO schools. However, DO is sort of a difficult path in that you have to take the comlex, uslme, and this merger coming up...

 

[femmegoblue]

I am sorry for repeating a question that has been beaten to death. I am urm (blk) and currently in the process of raising my undergrad science GPA for DO schools. However, DO is sort of a difficult path in that you have to take the comlex, uslme, and this merger coming up...

Edit: redacted

 

[Dr.Jekyll75]

No. Starting with the incoming class of 2017 there will be one exam for both DO/MD schools.

If you have questions unique to your own situation, I would suggest making your own thread.

When did this information come about . I haven't heard about this yet


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[femmegoblue]

When did this information come about . I haven't heard about this yet


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I am fairly certain I heard this through Dr. Ruger.

 

[Dr.Jekyll75]

I am fairly certain I heard this through Dr. Ruger.

I'm fairly certain this would have been published by now in the merger agreements . I highly doubt there will be a 1 test for all. I remember a admin at a school that I interview said the same thing for my class (2019) until it's on paper. It's not real.


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[femmegoblue]

I'm fairly certain this would have been published by now in the merger agreements . I highly doubt there will be a 1 test for all. I remember a admin at a school that I interview said the same thing for my class (2019) until it's on paper. It's not real.


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Yeah, it was last cycle that I heard this so I guess it was just speculation? Interesting. So in all the agreements you have seen, it's not the case?

 

[Dr.Jekyll75]

Yeah, it was last cycle that I heard this so I guess it was just speculation? Interesting. So in all the agreements you have seen, it's not the case?

No I have not , but maybe @Goro can shed light on this.


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[femmegoblue]

No I have not , but maybe @Goro can shed light on this.


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I just read through the official press release, and I guess now programs will not be able to require one or the other, and there will be increased recognition of COMLEX. However some programs will still prefer USMLE and DO students interested in those will still need to take it.

 

[Dr.Jekyll75]

I just read through the official press release, and I guess now programs will not be able to require one or the other, and there will be increased recognition of COMLEX. However some programs will still prefer USMLE and DO students interested in those will still need to take it.

A "recognition" doesn't mean much. You are still comparing apples to oranges and you need to take both as a DO. It gives me aneurysms when I hear my class mates say they want Derm so they'll only focus on the comlex .....


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[femmegoblue]

A "recognition" doesn't mean much. You are still comparing apples to oranges and you need to take both as a DO. It gives me aneurysms when I hear my class mates say they want Derm so they'll only focus on the comlex .....


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Wow silly me I have been thinking it was one exam for the past year since I heard that from a school itself. Thanks for clearing it up!

 

[JB50]

At the interview for MSUCOM the man that gave the presentation on basically why msucom said that there will not be a single test.

 

[femmegoblue]

At the interview for MSUCOM the man that gave the presentation on basically why msucom said that there will not be a single test.

We didn't have that conversation on my interview date 8/19. But obviously this is an evolving process and perhaps when I asked things weren't as set in stone. But good to know, it's one more thing for me to consider.

 

[JB50]

We didn't have that conversation on my interview date 8/19. But obviously this is an evolving process and perhaps when I asked things weren't as set in stone. But good to know, it's one more thing for me to consider.

I think they had gotten a lot of questions about the merger during previous interview dates so he just included info on it in the presentation. Your date was pretty early that's probably why.

 

[poloboy]

I think the consensus is go MD if it's not Cal Northstate.

I personally think MSUCOM and other state/public DO schools are a blip when it comes to this rule. If you love primary care and know it's what you want to do, I think most would agree MSUCOM is a smart choice. If you are undecided or are interested in specializing, I think new MD schools are still the way to go and will be taking this advice myself. Like others have said, no need to shut doors on yourself before you even begin.

Just curious, what's wrong with Cal Northstate?