New MSAR is out

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WTF! The new MSAR does not even have MCAT and GPA for each individual school.

IF YOU READ THIS: Just pay the $15 online one, the book is useless.

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^rly?...what is the purpose of the MSAR then? that was all it was good for.
 
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the books is ridiculous.. only 1 page per school.. no mcat/ gpa data.. what a waste of 10 bucks (for the text)
 
wow seriously? should of waited on ordering until people got theirs
 
does the online one have gpa/mcat for each school? (as well as percentiles?)
 
There's a comparison chart showing the information in the online and print version. Basically, the only thing the print version has is the section about preparing for medical school, taking the MCAT, picking schools, etc., whereas the online version is actually the one that has all of the real data.
 
Please note that posting screen shots of content from MSAR® Online is a violation of the MSAR Terms and Conditions you accept prior to accessing the MSAR® Online site. Violation of these terms may result in termination of your MSAR Online access, without refund, or in further legal action against you.

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I didn't know you could have a legal claim to a statistic.
 
just bought the online version, and I own the hardcopy one from last year (which was a great buy).

i won't mention any specific numbers as per AAMC request, only neat features which should

the online stuff is really cool, and I've been able to select the schools Im interested in applying for as favorites to quickly get to them.

in terms of numbers, a lot of things seem to be roughly the same for MCAT.

one things thats awesome about this online version is that it shows the actual gpa values (to the hundredths place)

well worth the $15
 
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I think it's hilarious that they push legal action over their "property" which is nothing more than data loaded into Excel.

Well, the data has to come from somewhere. They are the ones who put forth the effort to solicit the information from each school and compile it into your excel page (which is easier said than done). Is it worth $25? Probably not... but they do the work, so they set the price.
 
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To be fair to the AAMC, medical schools record their data in so many different ways. When they send their data to the AAMC, I'm sure its not in the same format. They have type everything up and do all these data analyses and stuff, and labor ain't cheap. $25 is really not that bad.. imagine paying $100 for such a book. Some people will still buy it, but they don't overcharge so brutally.
 
One thing I'm confused about is that the online MSAR only has data for matriculants, not acceptees. Is this how its been every year? I was under the impression that it usually contained information on both, but looks like I was wrong.
 
One thing I'm confused about is that the online MSAR only has data for matriculants, not acceptees. Is this how its been every year? I was under the impression that it usually contained information on both, but looks like I was wrong.

Does it say that? The numbers for mean GPA/MCAT look a little high to be actual matriculation data.

In other words, the matriculating class profiles offered on a couple school websites that I looked at are lower than what MSAR claims (specifically for GPAs).


EDIT::: After further review, MSAR says that it offers "Applicant and acceptee" statistics - also the actual statistics are labeled as "XYZ for Accepted Applicants". Where did you even see the word 'matriculant' at in there? :)
 
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Does it say that? The numbers for mean GPA/MCAT look a little high to be actual matriculation data.

In other words, the class profiles offered on a couple school websites that I looked at are lower than what MSAR claims (specifically for GPAs).

Didn't even think of that. Good point! I was more focused on the table where it lists how many people applied, how many were interviewed, etc. On the table, it only lists # of matriculants, not # of acceptees. I just was curious for calculating some OOS acceptance rates, but from that data you can only do OOS matriculation rates, which seems decidedly less useful. Not sure if the GPA or MCAT medians are for acceptees or matriculants though...
 
Didn't even think of that. Good point! I was more focused on the table where it lists how many people applied, how many were interviewed, etc. On the table, it only lists # of matriculants, not # of acceptees. I just was curious for calculating some OOS acceptance rates, but from that data you can only do OOS matriculation rates, which seems decidedly less useful. Not sure if the GPA or MCAT medians are for acceptees or matriculants though...

I know exactly what you're talking about now. I wish they had the number accepted on that table too! (Would make it MUCH more insightful.)
 
Yeah, I've noticed that self-reported averages for MCAT scores from schools are a little (usually 1 point) lower than the what's reported in the MSAR. I'm guessing that it is because schools matriculate a class that is a little lower, stats wise, than those that they offer spots to. IE, someone who gets accepted to multiple schools probably has a higher MCAT than average at places they get accepted, but don't end up attending. Skews the stats a little.
 
For my list of schools to apply to, I took my LizzyM, the schools LizzyM, and the %OOS interviewed, and then took a hard look at the %matriculated of the %interviewed. It's a DISTRESSINGLY small number, but given that they probably offered spots to 50% more applicants than matriculated, not the end of the world. If I've learned anything from the MSAR, it's that I have the best chance at my state school. SURPRISE!!
 
For my list of schools to apply to, I took my LizzyM, the schools LizzyM, and the %OOS interviewed, and then took a hard look at the %matriculated of the %interviewed. It's a DISTRESSINGLY small number, but given that they probably offered spots to 50% more applicants than matriculated, not the end of the world. If I've learned anything from the MSAR, it's that I have the best chance at my state school. SURPRISE!!

Good points to look at.

Real shame that MSAR didn't provide the damn "# accepted" figure. :mad:
 
If MSAR gave out that information, they'd lose income. The more schools students apply to, the more 33$ fees AMCAS can collect. If they gave out %accepted numbers, it'd help all of us narrow down our search. I'm convinced that this is part of the reason they put the kibosh on the spreadsheet that was floating around with interview chances on it. Maybe I'm cynical, but the only people who stand to benefit from applicants applying to fewer schools are the applicants. We pay good $ to AMCAS and then to the schools to apply. Schools benefit b/c US News and World Report takes number of applicants into account when calculating a schools ranking. They also benefit (a little) from the cash. AMCAS benefits from the cash. Students suffer because we have to come up with the cash and do the work (essays). Just my cynical two cents.
 
If MSAR gave out that information, they'd lose income. The more schools students apply to, the more 33$ fees AMCAS can collect. If they gave out %accepted numbers, it'd help all of us narrow down our search. I'm convinced that this is part of the reason they put the kibosh on the spreadsheet that was floating around with interview chances on it. Maybe I'm cynical, but the only people who stand to benefit from applicants applying to fewer schools are the applicants. We pay good $ to AMCAS and then to the schools to apply. Schools benefit b/c US News and World Report takes number of applicants into account when calculating a schools ranking. They also benefit (a little) from the cash. AMCAS benefits from the cash. Students suffer because we have to come up with the cash and do the work (essays). Just my cynical two cents.

You cynical bastard, you. :D
Nevertheless, what you said makes sense and could very well be a deciding factor on their part.
 
Well, as said above, the AAMC had to put in some effort into gathering these statistics. The price is not that high for what you get.
 
I don't know about the book copy, but the online version does in fact include the number of total applicants and the number matriculated! So they did not remove that feature.
 
I think it's hilarious that they push legal action over their "property" which is nothing more than data loaded into Excel.

The AAMC didn't seem to really care that people were talking about 32 being the average MCAT score, but more that an actual piece of a page from the MSAR was posted. I don't see why that's not a legitimate copyright violation.

One thing I'm confused about is that the online MSAR only has data for matriculants, not acceptees. Is this how its been every year? I was under the impression that it usually contained information on both, but looks like I was wrong.

I'm pretty sure my MSAR (I just threw it out :) ) had the number of applicants, interviews and matriculants, and that's it. The data for GPA and MCAT were for accepted students, not matriculants.

I know exactly what you're talking about now. I wish they had the number accepted on that table too! (Would make it MUCH more insightful.)

Dear God would it ever. Though you can find some of that online at eduers.com and medicalschoolsinusa.com. I don't know where they got that info, though. Google a school's name with "admission statistics" and they usually come up. Most of the ones I found were for entering classes for 2007-2010.

Yeah, I've noticed that self-reported averages for MCAT scores from schools are a little (usually 1 point) lower than the what's reported in the MSAR. I'm guessing that it is because schools matriculate a class that is a little lower, stats wise, than those that they offer spots to. IE, someone who gets accepted to multiple schools probably has a higher MCAT than average at places they get accepted, but don't end up attending. Skews the stats a little.

Ding ding ding! People with higher stats tend to get more acceptances and that skews the stats upwards. Try to find the entering class profile on the websites for the schools that you're interested in. A lot of schools have that somewhere online. That will give you a better idea of the stats for people that actually wind up attending that school.
 
Can someone please send me a copy of the online MSAR or statistics via PM? Or upload it to mediafire so we don't have to pay. This type of info is vital for making informed decisions during the app process and it's not fair that every premed is expected to pay just to have access to simple mcat/gpa statistics.

:idea:
Look it up yourself on the school websites, or just shell out $25. For God's sake you'll spend 10 times that registering for the MCAT. If you wind up eliminating one school from your primary app because of what you learned in the MSAR, it more than pays for itself.
 
how long did it take for you to get your copy after you ordered it? i ordered it last week and still haven't heard a single thing about it being shipped?
 
Can someone please send me a copy of the online MSAR or statistics via PM? Or upload it to mediafire so we don't have to pay. This type of info is vital for making informed decisions during the app process and it's not fair that every premed is expected to pay just to have access to simple mcat/gpa statistics.

Really, dude? Really?!

Have some class. Sounds to me like you're doing nothing but mooching off other people's hard work and asking that things be handed to you free of charge on a silver platter. Do the work. Stop trying to steal. Have some class. And please, whatever you do, if $15 is too much to pay for the work someone else put into something and you don't have the moral compass to not rationalize why it's okay to steal, just don't go into medicine or any other healthcare field. We don't need people like that. We get enough of them as patients....
 
Really, dude? Really?!

Have some class. Sounds to me like you're doing nothing but mooching off other people's hard work and asking that things be handed to you free of charge on a silver platter. Do the work. Stop trying to steal. Have some class. And please, whatever you do, if $15 is too much to pay for the work someone else put into something and you don't have the moral compass to not rationalize why it's okay to steal, just don't go into medicine or any other healthcare field. We don't need people like that. We get enough of them as patients....
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Ding ding ding! People with higher stats tend to get more acceptances and that skews the stats upwards. Try to find the entering class profile on the websites for the schools that you're interested in. A lot of schools have that somewhere online. That will give you a better idea of the stats for people that actually wind up attending that school.

On the other hand, the stats of the people who get offered admission may be a better measure of who gets an interview. If you are trying to land an interview, the admitted data might be more useful than matriculants' stats.
 
I have the new book. I found it funny that it has people of unidentifiable race on the front cover. Generic but not at the same time.

Anyways, this book has nowhere near as much information as last years. I have not looked at the online portion yet, but the code is in the front cover of the book.
 
Many pre-med advisors will have MSARs in their office, if you don't want to pay.
 
it's a lot thinner this year. should have just bought the online instead. waste of $10 plus shipping
 
One thing I wish it had was the number of people who got secondaries at the schools that screen for them. It would help me out so much, especially since I'm a CA resident.
 
Since there are quite a few opinionated individuals with regards to the contents of the MSAR (and since the AAMC apparently frequents SDN), might it be worth starting a 'MSAR wish list' thread (or poll)?

Who knows, they might take the opinions of a few hundred pre-meds to heart?
 
Here's my guess about the number of offers made to fill a given number of seats....


Schools that are highly desirable, either because they take only instate applicants or because they are ranked in the top 10 would, I guess, make 1.5 to 2.0 offers for every seat to fill.

Schools that are less desirable will make 2.5-3.5 offers for every seat.


The "safety schools" may make more offers or may hedge their bets & take more applicants from their waitlists. It is hard to estimate... some schools make offers to half of the applicants who interview and some are more generous with interview invitations but make offers to a much smaller proportion of those interiewed (although both might be making 3.0 offers for each seat to fill).


To determine the number of seats to be filed, keep in mind that if the school has a program that takes undergrads through a special program that, those students are not counted among the applicants and seats filled but it is a 1:1 relationship (so if 10 students of 100 come through a BS/MD program then the other 90 seats are filled by the x-10 inteviews where x equals the total number of interviews).
 
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When looking at schools as an Out of State student, what percentage of OOS matriculants is usually considered worth applying to as an Out of State student?
 
When looking at schools as an Out of State student, what percentage of OOS matriculants is usually considered worth applying to as an Out of State student?

For that, I'd look at what proportion of OOS applicants get interviews, not what proportion of the class is OOS or what proportion of interviewed applicants matriculate. The reason I say this is that some OOS applicants who interview will get an offer (the one fact we don't have access to) but will choose to matriculate where they are In-state (often cheaper), or they will choose to matriculate at a more desirable school (which could be another OOS school that is closer to home or a very high ranked school -- e.g you get admitted to U Vermont as an OOS student as well as Columbia).
 
For that, I'd look at what proportion of OOS applicants get interviews, not what proportion of the class is OOS or what proportion of interviewed applicants matriculate. The reason I say this is that some OOS applicants who interview will get an offer (the one fact we don't have access to) but will choose to matriculate where they are In-state (often cheaper), or they will choose to matriculate at a more desirable school (which could be another OOS school that is closer to home or a very high ranked school -- e.g you get admitted to U Vermont as an OOS student as well as Columbia).


Around what percentage of OOS applicants interviewed would a school still be worth applying to? I think I read somewhere on the forums that its 10% but I'm not entirely sure. Any clarification would be tremendously helpful.
 
Around what percentage of OOS applicants interviewed would a school still be worth applying to? I think I read somewhere on the forums that its 10% but I'm not entirely sure. Any clarification would be tremendously helpful.

It's your call... I'd compare the proportion of IS applicants interviewed to the proportion of OOS interviewed. You may be willing to take more long-shot chances if you have few choices than if you have many.
 
Here's my guess about the number of offers made to fill a given number of seats....

*snip*

To determine the number of seats to be filed, keep in mind that if the school has a program that takes undergrads through a special program that, those students are not counted among the applicants and seats filled but it is a 1:1 relationship (so if 10 students of 100 come through a BS/MD program then the other 90 seats are filled by the x-10 inteviews where x equals the total number of interviews).

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:laugh: Liz, I applaud your honesty
 
It's your call... I'd compare the proportion of IS applicants interviewed to the proportion of OOS interviewed. You may be willing to take more long-shot chances if you have few choices than if you have many.

Dumb question, but when schools report these scores are they reporting the scores from the individual's highest test (or latest test). How does it work with people who have taken multiple MCATS and had different scores?

If schools are only releasing the highest scores from each applicant, why do adcoms need all your scores anyway. Why look at all the scores on your profile if you are just going to release the highest MCAT scores as statistical data for surveys from AAMC?
 
Dumb question, but when schools report these scores are they reporting the scores from the individual's highest test (or latest test). How does it work with people who have taken multiple MCATS and had different scores?

If schools are only releasing the highest scores from each applicant, why do adcoms need all your scores anyway. Why look at all the scores on your profile if you are just going to release the highest MCAT scores as statistical data for surveys from AAMC?

The first (bolded) question is an interesting one. Who knows what they release? Different schools have different protocol regarding multiple MCAT scores; some average, some take the highest, some take the lowest, others take the most recent whether higher or lower.

Regarding the second question, maybe they report something other than the highest score, like the average or whatever they ended up using for admission. I doubt it, but it's possible. I think it's nice that they also report ranges. If your score is below a school's median at least you can see if they accepted anyone last cycle with a score similar to or lower than yours.

One reason they want to see all scores is to note trends and to see if you've hit a ceiling. If you've taken it 5 times and can't do better than a 28, that looks a little different than taking it twice and going 25, then 28.

I think a better question would be, why would they only report a matriculant's highest score? What incentive is there to report a higher median MCAT for an incoming class, regardless of what they use for admission?

Is it supposed to attract only "more competitive" applicants?
 
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