New York City....LOL

[700825]

Timely articles to familiarize yourself with NYC real estate.

A Room With a (New) View (Published 2019)

A Manhattan renter sets out to buy a one-bedroom with an inspiring vista and a kitchen worth cooking in. See if you can guess where he wound up.

www.nytimes.com

How Luxury Developers Use a Loophole to Build Soaring Towers for the Ultrarich in N.Y. (Published 2019)

The spread of these buildings overlooking Central Park is provoking a backlash amid a broader debate about affordable housing, extravagant projects and the city’s identity.

www.nytimes.com

FWIW an old med school friend is a fetal surgeon who makes close to 7 figures in San Francisco. He and his family live in a 100yo 1200sf house. If you need a big house to be happy, these places aren’t for you.

I see As someone who's never lived there I just never realized how bad the COA was.

As for me personally, I have no desire to live in LA or NYC. As someone who isn't from the NE/Cali, living there just doesn't have any appeal to me (culturally, politically, population, traffic, etc.). But to each their own.

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[Twiggidy]

I beg people to stop taking the 300k/year gigs. It devalues our field. There's a place in Brooklyn that has been hiring for like 2-3 years now and what they don't understand is that A) their program isn't that great and B) they don't pay enough. They'll never be able to recruit anyone and if they do get a bite, it'll likely be someone who is either desperate, lacks skills, or has red flags

 

[pgg]

I beg people to stop taking the 300k/year gigs. It devalues our field. There's a place in Brooklyn that has been hiring for like 2-3 years now and what they don't understand is that A) their program isn't that great and B) they don't pay enough. They'll never be able to recruit anyone and if they do get a bite, it'll likely be someone who is either desperate, lacks skills, or has red flags

The desperate, skill deficient, and red flag adorned people got to eat too. The market pays what it'll bear.

 

[chocomorsel]

I am working in nyc since finishing residency and making close to 500k. But I take 6-8 calls and average about 65-75 hrs per week. 500k jobs do exist in nyc but u got to work for it. They just increased the base and I am expecting 550. These jobs do exist. I am a generalist.

Does this number include bennies? Or is that extra on top?

 

[deleted171991]

I beg people to stop taking the 300k/year gigs.

 

[deleted171991]

The desperate, skill deficient, and red flag adorned people got to eat too. The market pays what it'll bear.

Most of the people who make 300-350 in the Northeast are perfectly fine. It's the market that's ****ed, especially in the big cities.

 

[pgg]

Most of the people who make 300-350 in the Northeast are perfectly fine. It's the market that's ****ed, especially in the big cities.

I know a lot of people live there for family reasons. Or because life in the big city is worth the tax they pay for the privilege. To each their own. I'd rather dribble lemon juice in my eyeball.

I was referring to the really terrible jobs that are always advertised, always flipping between vacancy and short timers. Not trying to disparage everyone who works in the northeast.

 

[GravelRider]

I beg people to stop taking the 300k/year gigs. It devalues our field. There's a place in Brooklyn that has been hiring for like 2-3 years now and what they don't understand is that A) their program isn't that great and B) they don't pay enough. They'll never be able to recruit anyone and if they do get a bite, it'll likely be someone who is either desperate, lacks skills, or has red flags

They also get new grads who just spent 4 years making 60k in a very expensive city and 300k sounds amazing. Turnover is very high. There is also a small population of former NAPA buyouts who made some fat cash back in the day and are done with NAPA, but not quite ready to retire. There aren’t many non-NAPA hospitals in the area, so they take what they can get. There is really no way to fix the big city markets because consolidation continues to happen and people will still want to or need to live there.

 

[GravelRider]

The thing about it is these 300k jobs are not a NYC-only problem by any stretch of the imagination. I can go onto Gaswork right now and get a sample of 300k full time, call-taking anesthesia jobs from every region in the country. It just seems more egregious in NYC because of the astronomical cost of living whereas 300k in Arkansas means you are living like a king. Anywhere market consolidation has taken place or a private practice has decided to subsidize their income by only hiring “associates” (pseudo-AMCs) will see these low salaries. NYC saw this happen years ago, but it’s not the only place it is happening.

 

[Twiggidy]

They also get new grads who just spent 4 years making 60k in a very expensive city and 300k sounds amazing. Turnover is very high. There is also a small population of former NAPA buyouts who made some fat cash back in the day and are done with NAPA, but not quite ready to retire. There aren’t many non-NAPA hospitals in the area, so they take what they can get. There is really no way to fix the big city markets because consolidation continues to happen and people will still want to or need to live there.

Yeah. I totally get that. I was also one of those residents who couldn't wait for a "real wage". Now I sort of lol at the memory of sitting in the call room with a 3rd year who was taking a job with the department, shopping for a 5k/month 2bd apt and budgeting it against 10k per month after taxes. Another conversation overhead was that the department couldn't keep a graduating resident because of the 350k PP gig across the river. I will agree with Choco, 350k might be cool if I'm home everynight and working 7-4. Maybe I'll give you some home OR call. I guess in that sense there really isn't much to complain about. It IS still a six figure salary. But the minute some chair tells me I have to start babysitting epidurals....Si-Yonara buddy.

I also need to be able to own a home. As I said in another post, I can't stomach making another person rich off rent. Generational wealth is something my family (or many of "my people" for that matter) haven't been able to enjoy.

 

[Twiggidy]

The thing about it is these 300k jobs are not a NYC-only problem by any stretch of the imagination. I can go onto Gaswork right now and get a sample of 300k full time, call-taking anesthesia jobs from every region in the country. It just seems more egregious in NYC because of the astronomical cost of living whereas 300k in Arkansas means you are living like a king. Anywhere market consolidation has taken place or a private practice has decided to subsidize their income by only hiring “associates” (pseudo-AMCs) will see these low salaries. NYC saw this happen years ago, but it’s not the only place it is happening.

But that's part of the irony right? Like you, I can understand 300k in the midwest/south where COL is generally lower. Interesting enough, you tend to find HIGHER salaries in these areas, but then you look at NYC and LA and it's 300-350. But I guess that's also basic supply/demand economics.

 

[POW16]

Owning a home is clearly not a priority for many people living in NYC...and there's nothing wrong with that.

Homeownership Is Not The American Dream | White Coat Investor

The American Dream has long included the concept of homeownership. Maybe it shouldn't. Lenders and realtors are only giving you one side of the story.

www.whitecoatinvestor.com

 

[Twiggidy]

Owning a home is clearly not a priority for many people living in NYC...and there's nothing wrong with that.

Homeownership Is Not The American Dream | White Coat Investor

The American Dream has long included the concept of homeownership. Maybe it shouldn't. Lenders and realtors are only giving you one side of the story.

www.whitecoatinvestor.com

I disagree with WhiteCoatInvestor on this one. I'm going to drop the race card just because that's my take on it, but black folks have been discriminated against with regard to homeownership for years upon years and that discrimination has lead to a lack of generational wealth in our community. I could turned this into an "anti-gentrification" rant but I'm not necessarily anti-gentrification. This would be a topic for an entirely different thread but I'll leave that for the socio-political forum which I want nothing to do with.

So, personally, I think homeownership is important. There are fair points made in the article but its "one sided" so to speak. Black folks need to quite buying jewelry and start buying homes. *edited: added "Start"*

 

[nimbus]

I disagree with WhiteCoatInvestor on this one. I'm going to drop the race card just because that's my take on it, but black folks have been discriminated against with regard to homeownership for years upon years and that discrimination has lead to a lack of generational wealth in our community. I could turned this into an "anti-gentrification" rant but I'm not necessarily anti-gentrification. This would be a topic for an entirely different thread but I'll leave that for the socio-political forum which I want nothing to do with.

So, personally, I think homeownership is important. There are fair points made in the article but its "one sided" so to speak. Black folks need to quite buying jewelry and buying homes.

It depends on what the rest of your assets look like. As an asset class, homes are expensive to own and maintain and they are illiquid. OTOH you gotta live somewhere.

 

[ToKingdomCome]

Wtf are These jobs in NYC that people are talking about? I was always under the assumption that you’d make like 250-300k in NYC

 

[facted]

Wtf are These jobs in NYC that people are talking about? I was always under the assumption that you’d make like 250-300k in NYC

Your assumptions weren't correct.

 

[turnupthegas]

You can make good money in NYC at certain hospitals but it’s a function of how much you work. HSS, North Shore, Mt. Sinai, and Lennox Hill can pay a pretty penny but comes with resident hours or worse. Senior partners are still shaving a bunch off of the top.

SF on the other hand...better to be outside of the city proper it seems. Payor mix is fairly poor and many techies seem to go to academia or kaiser for care. Also, Kaiser blows.

 

[POW16]

I disagree with WhiteCoatInvestor on this one. I'm going to drop the race card just because that's my take on it, but black folks have been discriminated against with regard to homeownership for years upon years and that discrimination has lead to a lack of generational wealth in our community. I could turned this into an "anti-gentrification" rant but I'm not necessarily anti-gentrification. This would be a topic for an entirely different thread but I'll leave that for the socio-political forum which I want nothing to do with.

So, personally, I think homeownership is important. There are fair points made in the article but its "one sided" so to speak. Black folks need to quite buying jewelry and start buying homes. *edited: added "Start"*

I agree completely. At the end of the day it's a personal decision, Just providing a different perspective.

 

[anbuitachi]

In the suburbs of NY, for a decent house in a good school district, a house is at least 700k, more like 1 million+ in my town. Then I pay 25k property tax a year along with state income tax, etc... It adds up quick. If you have kids, pre-schools can run at least 10-20k a year. You get the point.

Things aren't much better in NYC.

Is that sarcasm? Things are way worse in NYC. 700k gets you a 700 sq ft apartment in queens.

I am working in nyc since finishing residency and making close to 500k. But I take 6-8 calls and average about 65-75 hrs per week. 500k jobs do exist in nyc but u got to work for it. They just increased the base and I am expecting 550. These jobs do exist. I am a generalist.

I think with the high taxes in NYC, earning that much with more hours worked is diminishing returns. At those ranges you probably are paying 50% to tax.
70 hours a week is a lot. That's ~7am to 7pm 6 days a week. There's barely any time left over for yourself or family after those long hours

 

[sethco]

It depends on what the rest of your assets look like. As an asset class, homes are expensive to own and maintain and they are illiquid. OTOH you gotta live somewhere.

Down with home ownership as an investment

https://jlcollinsnh.com/2013/05/29/why-your-house-is-a-terrible-investment/

 

[facted]

Is that sarcasm?

Yes.

 

[GravelRider]

I just did a quick Gaswork search, and NAPA is offering 425k plus benefits with 6 weeks vacation at a bunch of locations and they have places in Queens, Brooklyn, and inner burbs. I believe the newly formed Northwell AMC is offering 400-ish with a decent benefits package like retirement contribution and they have locations on Staten Island and Westchester. I’m not saying those are dream jobs, and they certainly have their drawbacks, but it is certainly not the 250-300 average numbers being thrown around here. It doesn’t fix the cost of living problems in NYC, but you’re not going to starve or be homeless with a single income of 425 in NYC. Throw in a spouse who works and makes 100k+ (because salaries in most other industries are higher in NYC) and you can even think about buying a house. The picture isn’t quite as bleak as being painted here. If you want to or need to, it can be done with reasonable comfort and adjusted expectations.

The ad in the original post is a low ball figure.

 

[2Fast2Des]

I just did a quick Gaswork search, and NAPA is offering 425k plus benefits with 6 weeks vacation at a bunch of locations and they have places in Queens, Brooklyn, and inner burbs. I believe the newly formed Northwell AMC is offering 400-ish with a decent benefits package like retirement contribution and they have locations on Staten Island and Westchester. I’m not saying those are dream jobs, and they certainly have their drawbacks, but it is certainly not the 250-300 average numbers being thrown around here. It doesn’t fix the cost of living problems in NYC, but you’re not going to starve or be homeless with a single income of 425 in NYC. Throw in a spouse who works and makes 100k+ (because salaries in most other industries are higher in NYC) and you can even think about buying a house. The picture isn’t quite as bleak as being painted here. If you want to or need to, it can be done with reasonable comfort and adjusted expectations.

The ad in the original post is a low ball figure.

How much more are NY taxes compared to NJ? Or what is an equivalent salary NJ vs NY for COL and what not? Is my 380k job the same as a 425k napa NYC job at the end of the day?

 

[Hoya11]

How much more are NY taxes compared to NJ? Or what is an equivalent salary NJ vs NY for COL and what not? Is my 380k job the same as a 425k napa NYC job at the end of the day?

i bet something is up with those 425 napa jobs tho , lots of sketchiness out there

 

[GravelRider]

How much more are NY taxes compared to NJ? Or what is an equivalent salary NJ vs NY for COL and what not? Is my 380k job the same as a 425k napa NYC job at the end of the day?

You’d have to evaluate your individual situation. You mentioned your job had a reasonable workload, so that’s worth something. Your job had that weird thing where they stopped paying your health insurance if you work more...sort of a reverse incentive?

There is no doubt some sketchiness with anything NAPA related, but it’s a reasonable marker of current market conditions. They’ve had some recent smaller site losses as competition between them and Northwell has grown more heated, so it appears they’ve recently increased their compensation. If you’re an employee, my opinion is that there is nothing wrong with constantly sniffing out other options so long as the noncompete allows you to (usually the big problem with any NAPA job).

 

[anbuitachi]

How much more are NY taxes compared to NJ? Or what is an equivalent salary NJ vs NY for COL and what not? Is my 380k job the same as a 425k napa NYC job at the end of the day?

The NAPA jobs that pay 425 work a LOT.

NJ COL is much much lower than NYC. Your 380k job is worth more than 425k NYC job. It's like 3k for a average size 1 br in NYC. That's 70k pre-tax right there. You can probably get same apartment for 50percent less in. NJ. And that's just rent

 

[Twiggidy]

How much more are NY taxes compared to NJ? Or what is an equivalent salary NJ vs NY for COL and what not? Is my 380k job the same as a 425k napa NYC job at the end of the day?

From what I remember taxes are pretty high in NJ, especially property taxes, but the schools are better

 

[anbuitachi]

From what I remember taxes are pretty high in NJ, especially property taxes, but the schools are better

most of the north east regions are high state tax. but NYC has the added bonus of city tax of about 3.5% which is pretty large.. NJ has higher property tax than NYC, but then again NJ home prices are like way way less so even with higher property tax, you arent necessarily paying more on property tax

 

[residency2010]

Does this number include bennies? Or is that extra on top?

Benefits are extra. Completely paid insurance for whole family. 401k with 10% match. Long and short term disability and malpractice covered completely.

 

[residency2010]

Is that sarcasm? Things are way worse in NYC. 700k gets you a 700 sq ft apartment in queens.



I think with the high taxes in NYC, earning that much with more hours worked is diminishing returns. At those ranges you probably are paying 50% to tax.
70 hours a week is a lot. That's ~7am to 7pm 6 days a week. There's barely any time left over for yourself or family after those long hours

I live in NJ so no nyc city tax. Own a nice home in NJ with great public schools. I am 34 and looking to do this until 40 and then probably go to a place with no calls. The hours suck big time, I agree.

 

[2Fast2Des]

I live in NJ so no nyc city tax. Own a nice home in NJ with great public schools. I am 34 and looking to do this until 40 and then probably go to a place with no calls. The hours suck big time, I agree.

What's your commute like? With your long hours and commute, how do you have a life? Lol. I feel like if I was single I could sorta maybe suck it up and work like crazy to rake it in but with family I couldn't even if I wanted to

 

[facted]

How much more are NY taxes compared to NJ? Or what is an equivalent salary NJ vs NY for COL and what not? Is my 380k job the same as a 425k napa NYC job at the end of the day?

NNJ and Westchester have similar taxes and CoL.

 

[residency2010]

What's your commute like? With your long hours and commute, how do you have a life? Lol. I feel like if I was single I could sorta maybe suck it up and work like crazy to rake it in but with family I couldn't even if I wanted to

40 mins to 1 hr one way. But my regular day ends at 3.30. But I am on call 1-2 a week and work 2-3 weekends. I still feel like I am spending enough time with kids but I agree this is crazy hours.

 

[deleted941485]

NYC is a wasteland of AMCs (mostly NAPA) and hospital employed positions. I gave up on them a while ago and I’m a NE native. I just got tired of trying to make the math work.

 

[Twiggidy]

40 mins to 1 hr one way. But my regular day ends at 3.30. But I am on call 1-2 a week and work 2-3 weekends. I still feel like I am spending enough time with kids but I agree this is crazy hours.

That's too many weekends on duty

 

[sevoflurane]

Yeah these are all the reasons we left NYC area.

I don’t get it.
Never felt NYC to be all that.

I am soooo much happier out west.
Money goes further, blue skies, outdoors galore and no state income tax. Retirement is just that much closer and I am fulfilled in spirit along the way.

Took the day off today. So far... it’s been pretty epic.
View attachment 259641

View attachment 259640

 

[2Fast2Des]

I don’t get it.
Never felt NYC to be all that.

I am soooo much happier out west.
Money goes further, blue skies, outdoors galore and no state income tax. Retirement is just that much closer and I am fulfilled in spirit along the way.

Took the day off today. So far... it’s been pretty epic.
View attachment 259641View attachment 259642
View attachment 259640

What state is this??

 

[narcotics999]

I don’t get it.
Never felt NYC to be all that.

I am soooo much happier out west.
Money goes further, blue skies, outdoors galore and no state income tax. Retirement is just that much closer and I am fulfilled in spirit along the way.

Took the day off today. So far... it’s been pretty epic.
View attachment 259641View attachment 259642
View attachment 259640

How about civilization and culture?

 

[abolt18]

How about civilization and culture?

Overrated.

 

[sevoflurane]

What state is this??

Trying to stay somewhat anonymous...

Realistically though, this could be California, Oregon, Nevada, Washington, Utah, Idaho, Montana... amongst others.

As for culture... we have plenty of it although it's outdoors focused (festivals just about every weekend from now until October).

We get broadway shows... like... Book of Mormon---> lots of culture with that show. Haha. But honestly, NAPA, SF, LA, SD, Seattle, et al. are super close if you want to get your fix. Usually a drive or less than an hour flight. I don't feel the need to go to those cities however.

 

[sevoflurane]

This is from a few weeks ago before coming in @ 3pm on first call.

This is what culture feels like to me:

(my line hugging the trees)

 

[deleted162650]

This is from a few weeks ago before coming in @ 3pm on first call.

This is what culture feels like to me:

View attachment 259647

(my line hugging the trees)

View attachment 259648

View attachment 259649

Ya gotta straight line that sh** you p*ssy.

 

[Twiggidy]

I don’t get it.
Never felt NYC to be all that.

I am soooo much happier out west.
Money goes further, blue skies, outdoors galore and no state income tax. Retirement is just that much closer and I am fulfilled in spirit along the way.

Took the day off today. So far... it’s been pretty epic.
View attachment 259641View attachment 259642
View attachment 259640

I could do some large format photography out there

 

[abolt18]

Trying to stay somewhat anonymous...

Realistically though, this could be California, Oregon, Nevada, Washington, Utah, Idaho, Montana... amongst others.

As for culture... we have plenty of it although it's outdoors focused (festivals just about every weekend from now until October).

We get broadway shows... like... Book of Mormon---> lots of culture with that show. Haha. But honestly, NAPA, SF, LA, SD, Seattle, et al. are super close if you want to get your fix. Usually a drive or less than an hour flight. I don't feel the need to go to those cities however.

You are living that best life IMO. Super jelly living over here in the Midwest(ish) the past 6 yrs.

 

[deleted126335]

I don’t get it.
Never felt NYC to be all that.

I am soooo much happier out west.
Money goes further, blue skies, outdoors galore and no state income tax. Retirement is just that much closer and I am fulfilled in spirit along the way.

Took the day off today. So far... it’s been pretty epic.
View attachment 259641View attachment 259642
View attachment 259640

I don’t get it.
Never felt NYC to be all that.

I am soooo much happier out west.
Money goes further, blue skies, outdoors galore and no state income tax. Retirement is just that much closer and I am fulfilled in spirit along the way.

Took the day off today. So far... it’s been pretty epic.
View attachment 259641View attachment 259642
View attachment 259640

I reiterate:

am I working too much?

Hi all, I currently work at a level 1 trauma center in NY where I work approx. 70-80 hrs a week. I take 7-8 calls a month and work post call day. I m paid on a hourly basis and ends up making 450k approx. Lately I m much tired and feeling the burn out. Am I working too much? Can I make the same...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[Piebaldi]

Add 150k and then maybe.

If you’re single, then sure. Otherwise you’ll never own a home and you better marry another doctor. At least if it were LA the weather would be nice.

Excuse my ignorance but what is wrong with that?

 

[Twiggidy]

Excuse my ignorance but what is wrong with that?

What's wrong with what?

 

[Piebaldi]

What's wrong with what?

Just answering the question will suffice.

 

[GravelRider]

I don’t get it.
Never felt NYC to be all that.

I am soooo much happier out west.
Money goes further, blue skies, outdoors galore and no state income tax. Retirement is just that much closer and I am fulfilled in spirit along the way.

Took the day off today. So far... it’s been pretty epic.
View attachment 259641View attachment 259642
View attachment 259640

There’s no way you have young kids. That’s not a west coast vs. east coast lifestyle thing, that’s a no kids lifestyle thing.

Maybe it’s not quite so instagrammable, but there are plenty of places to mountain bike, road bike, surf, hike, ski, fish, or whatever outdoor thing you enjoy just an hour or two from NYC. However, I don’t care where you live, post call days quickly become daycare pickup days when you have young kids.

 

[Twiggidy]

Just answering the question will suffice.