nice guy seeking advice - cGPA: 3.57 scGPA: 3.29

[matt1989]

Hey guys,

Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer. I'm a senior psych major at TCNJ and I feel a mix of confidence and dread about the road ahead. My current GPA is not terribly competitive: cGPA: 3.57 scGPA: 3.29 though it has improved over the last few semesters. I want to take the MCATs this summer but I know I have a lot of studying to do. Ideally I want to apply to med school this fall. Right now I'm trying to find a hospital job in my area and get some clinical experience over the summer. Here are some questions on my mind.

With a GPA like that (maybe a bit higher), what kind of MCAT score should I be aiming for? I am interested in an MD program in the country. I live in PA.

What kind of clinical experience would most benefit my application?
Someone told me about becoming a PCT or nurse assistant.

Below is a more detailed break-down.

Grades
I'm a senior just about to start my last semester of college. I decided to go premed junior year after taking only psychology and other liberal arts classes. I took Chem I the following summer and kinda sucked - getting a C - which I just retook last semester with an A-. I did mediocre in Physics I and Chem II, B+ and B respectively, and barely survived orgo with a B- in both. The only thing holding up my science GPA are my first two bio classes. I got solid As in both and I'm hoping to do well just as well in genetics. However physics II is worrying me.

Extracurricular accomplishments
-Junior year I went two Peru for 10 days and volunteered at various hospitals and orphanages. I also had several local volunteer experiences in Camden and Trenton.
-Starting Junior year I have worked as a CA (or RA) in my college dorm for leadership experience, free room and board, etc.
-I want to work at a hospital and I am currently in the process of applying for employment for this summer.

MCATs
-I still have to take the MCATs and I plan to get it done this summer. So far I have taken one Kaplan (I think) diagnostics test which I did not study for and absolutely bombed (18). I took an informal class offered by my school that did not do much more than make me a little terrified. I do not have a particularly good record with standardized testing. I got a 1950 on my SAT with moderate but inefficient studying on my own. I would be studying now but being home for break seems to drain the motivation out of me if you know what i mean.

I believe that I have the intelligence and work ethic to get into med school eventually. My parents tell me not to worry and my girlfriend, a first-year at UMDNJ, is also confident in my abilities. "You have time" is what they often say. I want to get in this fall but I fear that I will do sub-par on the MCATs and waste money on half-assed applications. I have considered spending an additional year after college just working and MCAT studying, but I also don't want to cut myself short. I know this decision rides on my MCAT score but I thought I would spill my guts anyway.

Again, thank you for your time. Feel free to be as blunt as you want.

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[500mg]

j

 

[FateChanger]

I've been looking around and doing a lot of research lately (I'm a sophomore) and from what I can infer, the sGPA is a measure of the same stuff on the MCAT. If you work hard and do good on the MCAT and it will show you that you know your stuff despite the low sGPA. Also, due to you being a psych major, you don't get as many classes to boost your sGPA as someone with a biology major. Take some more bio classes since you did well in the first ones.

 

[V5RED]

Hey guys,

Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer. I'm a senior psych major at TCNJ and I feel a mix of confidence and dread about the road ahead. My current GPA is not terribly competitive: cGPA: 3.57 scGPA: 3.29 though it has improved over the last few semesters. I want to take the MCATs this summer but I know I have a lot of studying to do. Ideally I want to apply to med school this fall. Right now I'm trying to find a hospital job in my area and get some clinical experience over the summer. Here are some questions on my mind.

With a GPA like that (maybe a bit higher), what kind of MCAT score should I be aiming for? I am interested in an MD program in the country. I live in PA.

What kind of clinical experience would most benefit my application?
Someone told me about becoming a PCT or nurse assistant.

Below is a more detailed break-down.

Grades
I'm a senior just about to start my last semester of college. I decided to go premed junior year after taking only psychology and other liberal arts classes. I took Chem I the following summer and kinda sucked - getting a C - which I just retook last semester with an A-. I did mediocre in Physics I and Chem II, B+ and B respectively, and barely survived orgo with a B- in both. The only thing holding up my science GPA are my first two bio classes. I got solid As in both and I'm hoping to do well just as well in genetics. However physics II is worrying me.

Extracurricular accomplishments
-Junior year I went two Peru for 10 days and volunteered at various hospitals and orphanages. I also had several local volunteer experiences in Camden and Trenton.
-Starting Junior year I have worked as a CA (or RA) in my college dorm for leadership experience, free room and board, etc.
-I want to work at a hospital and I am currently in the process of applying for employment for this summer.

MCATs
-I still have to take the MCATs and I plan to get it done this summer. So far I have taken one Kaplan (I think) diagnostics test which I did not study for and absolutely bombed (18). I took an informal class offered by my school that did not do much more than make me a little terrified. I do not have a particularly good record with standardized testing. I got a 1950 on my SAT with moderate but inefficient studying on my own. I would be studying now but being home for break seems to drain the motivation out of me if you know what i mean.

I believe that I have the intelligence and work ethic to get into med school eventually. My parents tell me not to worry and my girlfriend, a first-year at UMDNJ, is also confident in my abilities. "You have time" is what they often say. I want to get in this fall but I fear that I will do sub-par on the MCATs and waste money on half-assed applications. I have considered spending an additional year after college just working and MCAT studying, but I also don't want to cut myself short. I know this decision rides on my MCAT score but I thought I would spill my guts anyway.

Again, thank you for your time. Feel free to be as blunt as you want.

I looked up TCNJ to see whether it is considered to be a school of grade deflation, inflation, or neither. In general the forums I looked at said it inflates grades(ie A's at TCNJ are given out much more easily than at other schools), and I even found an article by a professor there denouncing the grade inflation at TCNJ.

You are not a freshman, so you can't even say that adjusting to college killed your science grades. Based on your post, you simply could not handle the courses. Have you taken any science courses other than those you mentioned and done well? I ask that for two reasons. One is it would show you to have more potential than you advertise here. Two is that the grades you posted and number of classes don't add up to a 3.29 sGPA unless you did not include your C- that you retook which will be included if you apply to MD programs.

Your SAT score is certainly above average, so I think you may be being a bit harsh on yourself there. That said I would wager that everyone going to medical school is above average.

Of course your family and girlfriend will tell you that you can make it. That doesn't really count for much.

Based on what you have posted, I will be surprised if you get an acceptance to an MD program. I would not be surprised if you got an acceptance to a DO program, but I think you will have a hard time in medical school considering you barely scraped by in your prerequisites at a school with a reputation for inflating grades.

 

[matt1989]

In general the forums I looked at said it inflates grades(ie A's at TCNJ are given out much more easily than at other schools), and I even found an article by a professor there denouncing the grade inflation at TCNJ.

Yes, some professors at TCNJ are extremely easy / inflate grades. I would argue that there are also very difficult professors that take grades very seriously. The professor I had for my intro bio class was infamously impossible (over half the class dropped) and for eukaryotic I also had one of the most difficult professors. My grade in both certainly represented at least the top 10 - 20% of the class. Not to sound cocky, but I don't know anyone else in either of those classes that earned solid As.

Two is that the grades you posted and number of classes don't add up to a 3.29 sGPA unless you did not include your C- that you retook which will be included if you apply to MD programs.

That is actually a C. The hyphen was misleading, I know. The GPA includes a B I received in a Calc class. My academic advisor also told me that C would be replaced with the A- on my transcript. Though I wasn't a Freshman, bear in mind it was the first time I had taken any science classes since high school. I think it is also worth mentioning that I took Chem I and Calc simultaneously over a month-long summer class (easily the biggest mistake of my academic career). I also took orgo I and II as consecutive, accelerated summer classes (the second biggest mistake).

Score a 35+ and we'll at least talk about talking....

Damn

 

[V5RED]

Yes, some professors at TCNJ are extremely easy / inflate grades. I would argue that there are also very difficult professors that take grades very seriously. The professor I had for my intro bio class was infamously impossible (over half the class dropped) and for eukaryotic I also had one of the most difficult professors. My grade in both certainly represented at least the top 10 - 20% of the class. Not to sound cocky, but I don't know anyone else in either of those classes that earned solid As.

That is actually a C. The hyphen was misleading, I know. The GPA includes a B I received in a Calc class. My academic advisor also told me that C would be replaced with the A- on my transcript. Though I wasn't a Freshman, bear in mind it was the first time I had taken any science classes since high school. I think it is also worth mentioning that I took Chem I and Calc simultaneously over a month-long summer class (easily the biggest mistake of my academic career). I also took orgo I and II as consecutive, accelerated summer classes (the second biggest mistake).



Damn

Congratulations on doing well in your biology courses.

Based on your problems with the summer session chemistry and calculus combination, the natural question to ask is why you chose to try organic chemistry in an accelerated summer session. I can understand trying the quick summer classes once and realizing you can't keep up, but to go to the well from which you drew poison before and expect to find water the second time seems foolish.

As to the C, it may be replaced when calculating your GPA at TCNJ, but it will definitely be part of the calculations for your GPA when applying to MD schools. DO schools allow grade replacement, but MD schools do not. You should probably recalculate your BCPM with that in mind and see how many credits it will take to raise it to the averages at schools you want to apply to.

For example, UMDNJ's stats for the average students in their accepted class of 2015:
MCAT: 31
GPA: 3.6
BCPM: 3.5
http://njms.umdnj.edu/admissions/prospective/stats.cfm

By my calculations it would take about 6 science or math classes in which you got all A's to bring your BCPM to a 3.5. I estimated it currently at 3.16(I assumed equal credit hours in all science/math classes you listed and in the 6 estimated classes).

It will be a lot faster for DO schools.

 

[JustMeditate]

In all honesty, you need an extra year or two to beef up your resume before you'll be on par with the vast majority of matriculants, let alone competitive. Think about it. Most of us take a solid 3-4 years to get to where we need to be. You've just realized, Junior Year, that you want to be a physician. Great. But you can't just try and cram 3-4 years of application building into one year. It would be a waste of your energy and the several thousand dollars one must spend on applying. Registering for the MCAT and buying prep materials has already cost me close to $1,000, alone.

1). Your GPA needs some repair.You'll want a cGPA and sGPA around a 3.6-3.65 to be on par with matriculants in past years. You'll want a GPA of a 3.7 or greater to be competitive. And since you want to go MD, realize that there is no grade replacement policy for your GPA. Your university may not count that C towards your GPA, after you retook the course, but allopathic medical schools don't care. They'll calculate your GPA according to their own terms, and that includes averaging every single grade on your transcript, retake or no, into your GPA. Osteopathic schools do have grade replacement.

2). The fact that your only A's in science are in biology and a Chem I retake is going to be a red flag. Lower level bio courses are, quite frankly, easy. If you are good at memorization, you tend to do well. Chem, orgo, physics, and UPPER LEVEL bio test your ability to solve real world problems using critical thinking and acquired knowledge, a must for medical students. I would strongly suggest getting A's in several upper level bios, and maybe retaking some more of those poor grades, before applying to medical school. This will prove that you have what it takes to save lives.

3). The MCAT is a HUGE component of your application, and is not to be f*cked with. You need to study for a solid three months before taking it, and before you begin your studying, you should already have a relatively solid grasp of the pre-reqs. The three months before the MCAT are not the time to learn physics, orgo, and chem. That time is used to REVIEW that material. Your pre-req grades, and the fact that many of them were earned during an accelerated summer semester, indicate to me that you don't yet have a solid grasp on the basics. And, really, you don't want a bad MCAT score permanently blackening your record because you failed the test the first time around.

4). To be competitive EC wise, you need: (a) 50 hours shadowing 2-3 doctors, (b) ~150 clinical volunteer hours in the United States, (c) Nonclinical volunteer work, (d) leadership, (e) perhaps some TAing/tutoring, (f) maybe some research, and (g) some unique hobbies. Trust me when I say you cannot fit all of that into a semester and a summer WHILE studying for the MCAT.

(5). Medical schools run on rolling admissions, so you want to be ready to apply, MCAT and all, no later than mid-July. This is not possible if you take your MCAT at the end of summer. And yes, I know the deadline to submit applications isn't usually until November. That doesn't matter. By November, people are already getting interview invites and acceptances. With thousands of applicants per school, and only 100-150 slots, this puts you at a HUGE disadvantage if you wait to apply late in the cycle.

(6). Do you feel, at this point in time, that you can acquire 2 STRONG science letters of recommendation, and then some, before the due date for your school's committee letter? I'll be asking around starting next week to apply this cycle.

Long story short, take your time applying to medical school and do so when you are most competitive. Seriously, medical school isn't going anywhere.

 

[matt1989]

(6). Do you feel, at this point in time, that you can acquire 2 STRONG science letters of recommendation, and then some, before the due date for your school's committee letter? I'll be asking around starting next week to apply this cycle.

I think my best chances are with my two bio professors though I'm hoping I can get another recommendation from a professor next semester. Though my intro bio prof thought very highly of me she is did not seem to have the best grasp on the English language. She is also a bit absent-minded and may have forgotten me. I think I impressed my Euk professor, who is also my premed advisor, with my A. I also regularly frequented her office for class / premed questons. She is my best chance for a strong rec right now. I'm not sure what you mean by a committee letter though. Nobody has mentioned that to me. Since my Euk prof is the head of the premed committe, I guess her letter would qualify?

Thanks everyone for the criticism and advice. I admit I don't really know what I'm doing. My GPA for the last two semesters has been a 3.9, which is a huge deal for me, and I guess I got a bit overconfident. Now it looks like I have to think over my options

1) graduate but hold off on applying to an MD program and spend a year volunteering / shadowing / clinical experience + studying for MCATs
2) hold off on graduating and work on my GPA
3) graduate, study for MCATs, and apply to a DO school
4) graduate, study for GREs, and apply to a grad school

 

[JustMeditate]

I'm not sure what you mean by a committee letter though. Nobody has mentioned that to me.

Technically, you aren't supposed to send medical schools your letters of recommendation directly. Instead, send them to your pre-med committee and, based upon those letters, your GPA, and your resume, the committee writes a single letter and sends it to medical schools of your choice. Not sending in a committee letter is equivalent to saying, "Hey! My own pre-med committee doesn't have enough confidence in me to write a letter or rec!" It's application suicide, and most pre-med committees have very strict deadlines for turning in materials to your letter writers.

 

[V5RED]

I think my best chances are with my two bio professors though I'm hoping I can get another recommendation from a professor next semester. Though my intro bio prof thought very highly of me she is did not seem to have the best grasp on the English language. She is also a bit absent-minded and may have forgotten me. I think I impressed my Euk professor, who is also my premed advisor, with my A. I also regularly frequented her office for class / premed questons. She is my best chance for a strong rec right now. I'm not sure what you mean by a committee letter though. Nobody has mentioned that to me. Since my Euk prof is the head of the premed committe, I guess her letter would qualify?

Thanks everyone for the criticism and advice. I admit I don't really know what I'm doing. My GPA for the last two semesters has been a 3.9, which is a huge deal for me, and I guess I got a bit overconfident. Now it looks like I have to think over my options

1) graduate but hold off on applying to an MD program and spend a year volunteering / shadowing / clinical experience + studying for MCATs
2) hold off on graduating and work on my GPA
3) graduate, study for MCATs, and apply to a DO school
4) graduate, study for GREs, and apply to a grad school

Do a google search for TCNJ pre med.

Your school's website very clearly tells you how to obtain your committee letter among other things you need to do to get into medical school.

 

[matt1989]

Do a google search for TCNJ pre med.
Your school's website very clearly tells you how to obtain your committee letter among other things you need to do to get into medical school.

I looked at that sequence and it only seems to apply to a traditional premed student who takes the MCAT scores the summer before senior year. I was under the impression that since I'm planning to take the MCAT this summer - at the earliest - I would be applying autonomously as a college
graduate. I'm hoping that my school will still work with me after I graduate. does anyone have experience with this?

 

[JustMeditate]

looked at that sequence and it only seems to apply to a traditional premed student who takes the MCAT scores the summer before senior year. I was under the impression that since I'm planning to take the MCAT this summer - at the earliest - I would be applying autonomously as a college graduate. I'm hoping that my school will still work with me after I graduate. does anyone have experience with this?

My Pre-Med Committee does work with alumni, but if you really want answers, you should actually talk to your pre-med adviser about it. He/she knows a lot more about how to handle your situation than we do.

 

[V5RED]

I looked at that sequence and it only seems to apply to a traditional premed student who takes the MCAT scores the summer before senior year. I was under the impression that since I'm planning to take the MCAT this summer - at the earliest - I would be applying autonomously as a college
graduate. I'm hoping that my school will still work with me after I graduate. does anyone have experience with this?

Your school probably has experience with this. They would be the best source to ask about your specific situation.

 

[varsityblue]

Hey guys,

Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer. I'm a senior psych major at TCNJ and I feel a mix of confidence and dread about the road ahead. My current GPA is not terribly competitive: cGPA: 3.57 scGPA: 3.29 though it has improved over the last few semesters. I want to take the MCATs this summer but I know I have a lot of studying to do. Ideally I want to apply to med school this fall. Right now I'm trying to find a hospital job in my area and get some clinical experience over the summer. Here are some questions on my mind.

With a GPA like that (maybe a bit higher), what kind of MCAT score should I be aiming for? I am interested in an MD program in the country. I live in PA.

What kind of clinical experience would most benefit my application?
Someone told me about becoming a PCT or nurse assistant.

Below is a more detailed break-down.

Grades
I'm a senior just about to start my last semester of college. I decided to go premed junior year after taking only psychology and other liberal arts classes. I took Chem I the following summer and kinda sucked - getting a C - which I just retook last semester with an A-. I did mediocre in Physics I and Chem II, B+ and B respectively, and barely survived orgo with a B- in both. The only thing holding up my science GPA are my first two bio classes. I got solid As in both and I'm hoping to do well just as well in genetics. However physics II is worrying me.

Extracurricular accomplishments
-Junior year I went two Peru for 10 days and volunteered at various hospitals and orphanages. I also had several local volunteer experiences in Camden and Trenton.
-Starting Junior year I have worked as a CA (or RA) in my college dorm for leadership experience, free room and board, etc.
-I want to work at a hospital and I am currently in the process of applying for employment for this summer.

MCATs
-I still have to take the MCATs and I plan to get it done this summer. So far I have taken one Kaplan (I think) diagnostics test which I did not study for and absolutely bombed (18). I took an informal class offered by my school that did not do much more than make me a little terrified. I do not have a particularly good record with standardized testing. I got a 1950 on my SAT with moderate but inefficient studying on my own. I would be studying now but being home for break seems to drain the motivation out of me if you know what i mean.

I believe that I have the intelligence and work ethic to get into med school eventually. My parents tell me not to worry and my girlfriend, a first-year at UMDNJ, is also confident in my abilities. "You have time" is what they often say. I want to get in this fall but I fear that I will do sub-par on the MCATs and waste money on half-assed applications. I have considered spending an additional year after college just working and MCAT studying, but I also don't want to cut myself short. I know this decision rides on my MCAT score but I thought I would spill my guts anyway.

Again, thank you for your time. Feel free to be as blunt as you want.

1) You should aim to have a LizzyM score around 65 to be competitive for admission. (Formula = GPA*10 + MCAT score.) Starting to study for the MCAT immediately would be a good idea.
2) I strongly discourage you from both taking a 5th year and doing a postbac. If I was in your situation, I'd sign up for a master's degree in a science subject at a well-known university--British ones have notoriously easy entrance requirements--and then applying when you have a really strong admissions portfolio. PM me if you want Oxbridge, LSE, Imperial, or UCL application tips or advice on UK personal statements.
3) Maybe take a few more bio classes before graduation.
4) Volunteering at a local hospital as soon as possible would be a good idea. Most applicants apply with 150+ clinical hours and 50+ shadowing hours. Try to find a balance that works for you.
5) Getting a summer job isn't a good idea. Do something medically-related, join Americorps, or work for a NGO or something.
6) If you're up for it, you could probably apply to join the Peace Corps and do a medically-related service project and take the MCAT right before you leave. (Not sure when the application deadline is.)

 

[impervious0ne]

Extracurricular accomplishments
-Junior year I went two Peru for 10 days and volunteered at various hospitals and orphanages. I also had several local volunteer experiences in Camden and Trenton.
-Starting Junior year I have worked as a CA (or RA) in my college dorm for leadership experience, free room and board, etc.
-I want to work at a hospital and I am currently in the process of applying for employment for this summer.

Dear OP -
At this stage you are not really competitive for admissions. Low GPA and repetition is frowned upon by adcom's. I'd assume you are working on GPA/MCAT so ill leave it at that.

Your EC's are very thin. You will be competing against premeds who have names in publications and such. You should consider shadowing and volunteering at hospital (100+ hours each) so that EC aspect does not hurt or benefit you.

6) If you're up for it, you could probably apply to join the Peace Corps and do a medically-related service project and take the MCAT right before you leave

You will need to plan very well for this. Some schools stipulate that MCATs cannot be anywhere from more than 2-3 years and vary by schools. Also, new MCAT's are rolling out on 2015 academic year and I am not exactly sure how adcoms will handle the new test in conjunction with the old test.