NJMS v Temple v Hackensack v RowanSOM

[309kid]

Greetings, any input would be appreciated in helping me decide between these med schools!

I have very little idea what speciality may end up being the most interesting to me so I would prefer to go to a school that has the broadest opportunities in terms of residency match, with ideally the least student debt.

NJMS
Pros:

• Tuition = $45,095
• Location = 40 min drive (potentially commutable from family home for preclinical years to save money)
• Good reputation amongst residency program directors
• Have a distinction program that sounds interesting

Cons:

• Pre-clerkship organ system courses are graded in addition to clinical rotations
• Class rank (reported to residency directors in quintiles)
• Inner city location (more outside of my comfort zone)

Temple (St. Luke's Campus in Bethlehem, PA)
Pros:

• True P/F in pre clinical years
• Relatively close to family (1.5 hour drive)
• Bethlehem seems like a nice city (hopefully will visit soon)
• Small class size (about 40 students)

Cons:

• Tuition = $57,771
• Bethlehem campus has only been a four year campus for 2 years

Hackensack
Pros:

• Potential to graduate in 3 years
• P/F pre-clerkships
• Potential to do all clinical rotations close to home (could save money on living expense during clinical year)

Cons:

• Tuition = $66,054 (but hopefully will be getting financial aid offer soon)
• Very new, first class began med school here in 2018
• 3 year graduates only made up 1/3 of the class entering in 2018
• 3 year graduate residency placement seems more limited (mostly IM and EM)
• First 4th year students matching soon ... non-existent national match data

RowanSOM (Osteopathic Med School)
Pros:

• Tuition = $41,339
• P/F pre-clerkships

Cons:

• Significantly lower ranked by residency directors than NJMS and Temple
• Residency directors potentially biased against graduates from an Osteopathic program? (not sure if this still exists)

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[JohnJacobJingleheimer]

Based on cost so far, NJMS far and away. There’s no school here that stands out as the most prestigious or anything. Honestly, at nearly every level they are interchangeable. Personally, if all costed the same, I think I’d do NJMS > Temple > Hackensack > Rowan. Though in my situation I’d choose Hackensack over Temple for location, despite Temple having a more longstanding reputation. I forsee Hackensack being ranked right around Temple and NJMS in a few years when its gotten the chance to settle in.

Edit: After seeing that it is Rowan’s DO program, not MD, I would go ahead and take it off the list entirely. Even their MD would come last on the list for me, and I would put Rowan’s MD many steps ahead of its DO. Even with a full ride, it should be out of the running.

 

[chilly_md]

Do NJMS. Check the actual full cost of attendance and not just tuition, but Temple probably still won’t be cheaper after factoring that in.

 

[309kid]

Based on cost so far, NJMS far and away. There’s no school here that stands out as the most prestigious or anything. Honestly, at nearly every level they are interchangeable. Personally, if all costed the same, I think I’d do NJMS > Temple > Hackensack > Rowan. Though in my situation I’d choose Hackensack over Temple for location, despite Temple having a more longstanding reputation. I forsee Hackensack being ranked right around Temple and NJMS in a few years when its gotten the chance to settle in.

Edit: After seeing that it is Rowan’s DO program, not MD, I would go ahead and take it off the list entirely. Even their MD would come last on the list for me, and I would put Rowan’s MD many steps ahead of its DO. Even with a full ride, it should be out of the running.

Thanks for your response! I was holding onto the Rowan acceptance to see if there might be a chance of scholarship … but I suppose it might not be worth it even with the scholarship.

 

[309kid]

Do NJMS. Check the actual full cost of attendance and not just tuition, but Temple probably still won’t be cheaper after factoring that in.

Sounds good, if I commuted from my family’s house the first two years to NJMS the total cost of the 4 years would be roughly 247,876. On the other hand if I rented my own place at temple for all 4 years the total cost of attendance would be roughly 326,440.

 

[aat1221]

I would go with NJMS and save the $$.
Question: You mention NJMS has "Good reputation amongst residency program directors". How do you know this? Where is this kind of information even available?

 

[309kid]

I would go with NJMS and save the $$.
Question: You mention NJMS has "Good reputation amongst residency program directors". How do you know this? Where is this kind of information even available?

Oh yes, I found that information on this reddit post:

 

[chilly_md]

Sounds good, if I commuted from my family’s house the first two years to NJMS the total cost of the 4 years would be roughly 247,876. On the other hand if I rented my own place at temple for all 4 years the total cost of attendance would be roughly 326,440.

Yeah saving 80k and going to a solid state school sounds a lot better

 

[KnightDoc]

Thanks for your response! I was holding onto the Rowan acceptance to see if there might be a chance of scholarship … but I suppose it might not be worth it even with the scholarship.

It won't be, and no MD school will match a DO scholarship.

 

[yuhh]

i would go hackensack tbh. njms graded preclinicals is an absolute deal breaker for me. also, i heard u can apply for automatic match into hackensack into certain specialities which is a big draw

also, take RowanSOM off the list

 

[Mre1123]

To clarify something on your pros and cons list - NJMS will begin reporting individual class ranking (not quintile) beginning with the class of 2026. Not to say how this should affect your decision, as some say it is beneficial in the time of P/F Step 1, while others find it detrimental. If you would like to DM me, I am a current student and am happy to chat.

 

[yuhh]

To clarify something on your pros and cons list - NJMS will begin reporting individual class ranking (not quintile) beginning with the class of 2026. Not to say how this should affect your decision, as some say it is beneficial in the time of P/F Step 1, while others find it detrimental. If you would like to DM me, I am a current student and am happy to chat.

class of 2026 is rankings and ABCDF grading. thats double homicide. class of 2024 had it best with no rankings and true P/F

 

[Mre1123]

class of 2026 is rankings and ABCDF grading. thats double homicide. class of 2024 had it best with no rankings and true P/F

last I heard preclinical is still going to be P/F but with ranking (no grades reported for preclinical), and clinical is going to be H/HP/P/F. Their reasoning is the P/F Step 1 and "we talked to residency PDs and this is what they want to see from students." My understanding is that 2025 is the only class that will have quintiles.

 

[KnightDoc]

class of 2026 is rankings and ABCDF grading. thats double homicide. class of 2024 had it best with no rankings and true P/F

Double homicide? So just why would you imagine the administration is choosing to torment its students in such a fashion?

In a world in which Step 1 is P/F, top students attending non-top programs need a way to distinguish themselves. NJMS is just making the changes necessary to best position its top students for success.

Non-top students won't be impacted. If you are not shooting for a competitive residency and don't want the stress, just make another choice, assuming you have one. Otherwise, just try to block out the stress and play your own game. There is nothing wrong with that.

This is not double homicide. Rather, it is a strategy designed to enable the top students at NJMS to compete for residencies with students from top schools.

As I posted in another thread:

This^^^^. My research confirms that this is an unfortunate fact of life for people at schools outside the T20 or so that have aspirations to go into competitive specialties or to top residencies.

People at top med schools have the luxury of not subjecting themselves to ranking, because they have already passed a screen respected by PDs by being accepted by a top school. As we all know, there are plenty of top people who, for one reason or another, do not attend top schools, just like in UG. If UG was all P/F, it would probably be really difficult for top students at unranked UGs to distinguish themselves and get into top med schools.

Same thing here. Schools outside the T20 that do not rank make their students feel better, and undoubtedly alleviate some stress, at least until Match Day. Invariably, it's the schools that rank, grade, or both that tend to punch above their weight in the Match.

As with everything else, this does not mean you cannot go to an unranked school that is pure P/F and not match plastics. YMMV, but it is definitely something to consider if you have choices, depending on whether it's more important for you to minimize stress or to maximize your ability to match something competitive. If you don't have more than one choice, then it really doesn't matter.

 

[yuhh]

last I heard preclinical is still going to be P/F but with ranking (no grades reported for preclinical), and clinical is going to be H/HP/P/F. Their reasoning is the P/F Step 1 and "we talked to residency PDs and this is what they want to see from students." My understanding is that 2025 is the only class that will have quintiles.

their admissioms day said class of 2026 will implement the grades but fuggit maybe im incorrect watevs. its sum to be wary of for incoming students

 

[yuhh]

Double homicide? So just why would you imagine the administration is choosing to torment its students in such a fashion?

In a world in which Step 1 is P/F, top students attending non-top programs need a way to distinguish themselves. NJMS is just making the changes necessary to best position its top students for success.

Non-top students won't be impacted. If you are not shooting for a competitive residency and don't want the stress, just make another choice, assuming you have one. Otherwise, just try to block out the stress and play your own game. There is nothing wrong with that.

This is not double homicide. Rather, it is a strategy designed to enable the top students at NJMS to compete for residencies with students from top schools.

As I posted in another thread

Double homicide? So just why would you imagine the administration is choosing to torment its students in such a fashion?

In a world in which Step 1 is P/F, top students attending non-top programs need a way to distinguish themselves. NJMS is just making the changes necessary to best position its top students for success.

Non-top students won't be impacted. If you are not shooting for a competitive residency and don't want the stress, just make another choice, assuming you have one. Otherwise, just try to block out the stress and play your own game. There is nothing wrong with that.

This is not double homicide. Rather, it is a strategy designed to enable the top students at NJMS to compete for residencies with students from top schools.

As I posted in another thread:

its pretty obvious what the rzn is lol, ye aint gotta type a whole thesis and essay on it. double homicide literally just a trendy quote on tiktok lmfao

 

[Mre1123]

their admissioms day said class of 2026 will implement the grades but ik that uk better if u actually attend unless u havent heard the news in a bit

Just looked into it a little bit more, found on the NJMS site that the first fall courses in M1 are going to be P/F, and then the organ system classes (January of M1 --> March of M2) are going to be H/HP/P/F, So preclinical is going to be mixed. Interesting take from the school.
Thanks for letting me know though, people (including myself) were wondering if they finalized the grading scheme for the incoming class. Admin seems a little disorganized about this, the class of 2025 was also confused about quintiles and had to ask admin multiple times to define what would actually be reported on Dean's Letter/MSPE.

 

[KnightDoc]

its pretty obvious what the rzn is lol, ye aint gotta type a whole thesis and essay on it. double homicide literally just a trendy quote on tiktok lmfao

Okay, but it's probably not so obvious to many, and, quite frankly, it's a good thing, not "sum to be wary of for incoming students."

It's going to help top gunners, and it's not going to hurt anyone else, since they would not be competitive for top specialties in any event, and just don't need to get caught up in the competition if they choose not to compete. Contrary to apparent popular opinion, pulling top people down by not allowing them to distinguish themselves doesn't actually lift anyone up.

At Harvard no one needs to distinguish themselves because they already have, by getting accepted to Harvard. At NJMS, not so much, regardless of how much some people might want to pretend otherwise. The administration is just doing what is necessary to protect its match list, and to allow the school to maintain its position as an attractive mid tier option. It's not something for anyone to be wary of, unless their dream is peds, they don't even want the opportunity to maybe be competitive for something more competitive, and they don't want to be annoyed by being near other people stressing about performance.

 

[yuhh]

Okay, but it's probably not so obvious to many, and, quite frankly, it's a good thing, not "sum to be wary of for incoming students."

It's going to help top gunners, and it's not going to hurt anyone else, since they would not be competitive for top specialties in any event, and just don't need to get caught up in the competition if they choose not to compete. Contrary to apparent popular opinion, pulling top people down by not allowing them to distinguish themselves doesn't actually lift anyone up.

At Harvard no one needs to distinguish themselves because they already have, by getting accepted to Harvard. At NJMS, not so much, regardless of how much some people might want to pretend otherwise. The administration is just doing what is necessary to protect its match list, and to allow the school to maintain its position as an attractive mid tier option. It's not something for anyone to be wary of, unless their dream is peds, they don't even want the opportunity to maybe be competitive for something more competitive, and they don't want to be annoyed by being near other people stressing about performance.

dude i really dont care about the reason, one of which i already know. just cuz it doesnt repel u dont mean it dont repel me and others? it aint that deep dude

 

[chilly_md]

Lol I find it hard to take somebody who quotes Tiktok and writes so poorly seriously.

 

[KnightDoc]

dude i really dont care about the reason, one of which i already know. just cuz it doesnt repel u dont mean it dont repel me and others? it aint that deep dude

As I tried to say above (apparently unsuccessfully!), there is nothing to be wary of UNLESS you have no interest in anything competitive and would be annoyed being around people who are. You are certainly entitled to be repelled, especially if you have T20 true P/F options to choose from. Otherwise, if you have other mid tier and below options that will shield you from grades and ranking, and you don't care about competitive residency programs, then you know what you have to do.

Complaining because schools like NJMS are following the lead of schools like UCF that already grade and have match lists that are far better than you would think based on their ranking, is really just uncalled for as we transition into a Step 1 P/F world.

 

[yuhh]

Lol I find it hard to take somebody who quotes Tiktok and writes so poorly seriously.

i cant take them srsly either, but i take users who no life and dwell sdn/internet and criticize grammar on the internet even less srs lol

 

[chilly_md]

i cant take them srsly either, but i take users who no life and dwell sdn/internet and criticize grammar on the internet even less srs lol

Watevs

 

[309kid]

Double homicide? So just why would you imagine the administration is choosing to torment its students in such a fashion?

In a world in which Step 1 is P/F, top students attending non-top programs need a way to distinguish themselves. NJMS is just making the changes necessary to best position its top students for success.

Non-top students won't be impacted. If you are not shooting for a competitive residency and don't want the stress, just make another choice, assuming you have one. Otherwise, just try to block out the stress and play your own game. There is nothing wrong with that.

This is not double homicide. Rather, it is a strategy designed to enable the top students at NJMS to compete for residencies with students from top schools.

As I posted in another thread:

I agree, it really boils down to what you said. Do you want to minimize your stress in the first two years (or so) of med school, or do you want to maximize your opportunity to match into something very competitive? That is a question that I am struggling to answer for myself currently lol

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

To clarify something on your pros and cons list - NJMS will begin reporting individual class ranking (not quintile) beginning with the class of 2026. Not to say how this should affect your decision, as some say it is beneficial in the time of P/F Step 1, while others find it detrimental. If you would like to DM me, I am a current student and am happy to chat.

I think this actually better now, depending on the OPs specialty choices. I wish the school I am probably going to reported class rank and grades preclinicals

 

[KnightDoc]

I agree, it really boils down to what you said. Do you want to minimize your stress in the first two years (or so) of med school, or do you want to maximize your opportunity to match into something very competitive? That is a question that I am struggling to answer for myself currently lol

My advice is to not use this as a criteria, UNLESS you have a chance to go to a top tier school that doesn't rank or grade.

Your stress level at a mid tier that grades will be entirely up to you. You can either play the game and gun, OR you can choose to chill and let whatever happens happen. If you go to a lower tier that doesn't grade, that choice will be made for you, but you can always make it for yourself, anywhere!