no derm elective a prob?

[aviary17]

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Hi, I plan to go into derm, and a school I am strongly considering offers no derm elective to speak of. Is this a problem for when I apply to residencies? Thank you.

 

[Retsage]

Lol

 

[chessknt]

You can probably rotate out during an elective to a hospital that offers it.

On a more realistic note, you probably dont know what you want to do and shouldnt choose a school based on specialty strength.

 

[Law2Doc]

Hi, I plan to go into derm, and a school I am strongly considering offers no derm elective to speak of. Is this a problem for when I apply to residencies? Thank you.

Agree with the prior poster that you cannot possibly know what you want to go into until you at least do some third year rotations, and many many people find themselves not competitive for derm anyhow. But assuming arguendo that you get past those hurdles you can always do away rotations at other schools. The downside would not be an issue of no electives, it would be an issue of no easy access to a mentor in the field. Which you might be able to find external to your school, but it's going to be harder to get plugged in. But as mentioned, most people will change their mind at least once in med school so it's kind of silly to go into med school planning on a specific specialty. And the percentage that match into derm is so small that I'd suggest keeping a much more open mind, because while everyone who applies to med school has a transcript full of "mostly A's" and expects to conquer the world, half of all matriculants will find themselves in the bottom half of the class, and a greater percentage than that will find themselves out of the running for derm. I actually don't think people should go to med school if they only want to do something like derm, because in most cases it won't happen.

 

[atomi]

Hi, I plan to go into derm, and a school I am strongly considering offers no derm elective to speak of. Is this a problem for when I apply to residencies? Thank you.

no it is not. you will need to do a lot of research though. there is a lot of competition out there to get the privilege of charging $150 per zit popped. why this country can't come up with some more derm residencies and eliminate this silly competition and end the dermMD shortage is beyond me. having to wait four frickin months to see a dermatologist for basal cell tumor removal is ridiculous.

 

[funkymunkytoes]

My troll-eliminating alter ego.

 

[Medstudent85]

just by asking this question means you are already not competitive enough,

 

[Law2Doc]

...why this country can't come up with some more derm residencies and eliminate this silly competition and end the dermMD shortage is beyond me. having to wait four frickin months to see a dermatologist for basal cell tumor removal is ridiculous.

There is no real derm shortage -- it is artificial -- the number of residencies is set low by design. Dermatologists don't want additional slots because a very large component of their business is elective and non-emergent, and since the government is focused on dealing with the underserved, who need primary care physicians far more than specialists, I don't see it changing any time soon. Nobody is pushing for this -- not in derm, and not in the fed, and the patients really aren't complaining as loudly about it as they are about things like waiting too long in the ED because they don't have insurance for a PCP, or not being able to afford their prescription meds.

 

[scarletgirl777]

I plan on not going into derm, but I am taking into consideration the range of electives that a school has to offer. It is true that you can always do away electives, but those cost money and you have to apply. I'd rather be secure in the knowledge that I can do any kind of elective or rotation I want at my home school. It's not at the top of my list, but when you have choices I see no reason why you can't consider it. It's just as valid as evaluating warm fuzzy feelings.

 

[chessknt]

I plan on not going into derm, but I am taking into consideration the range of electives that a school has to offer. It is true that you can always do away electives, but those cost money and you have to apply. I'd rather be secure in the knowledge that I can do any kind of elective or rotation I want at my home school. It's not at the top of my list, but when you have choices I see no reason why you can't consider it. It's just as valid as evaluating warm fuzzy feelings.

It is very common to do at least 1 away rotation in something you have an interest in doing as a career (remember, this is a move you make to help your career pan out well)

 

[scarletgirl777]

It is very common to do at least 1 away rotation in something you have an interest in doing as a career (remember, this is a move you make to help your career pan out well)

I know it's common, but if you already go somewhere that has one of the best residencies in what you want to do (or at least one of the residency programs you are really really interested in applying to), so much the better right? 😉 Given the choice, I'd just really rather not, especially considering that some schools may already require you to take a rotation kind of away from the city where the main campus is.

 

[atomi]

There is no real derm shortage -- it is artificial -- the number of residencies is set low by design. Dermatologists don't want additional slots because a very large component of their business is elective and non-emergent, and since the government is focused on dealing with the underserved, who need primary care physicians far more than specialists, I don't see it changing any time soon. Nobody is pushing for this -- not in derm, and not in the fed, and the patients really aren't complaining as loudly about it as they are about things like waiting too long in the ED because they don't have insurance for a PCP, or not being able to afford their prescription meds.

Of course they don't want more spots. How else can they afford their fourth summer home? The rates dermatologists charge for their services are just criminal and would never last in a free market. And there most certainly is a shortage. You say it's artificial, but then you admit they purposely keep people out. More derms = lower prices = better care (more people genuinely interested in the field) = better minds in other specialties where they are more needed. More derm residencies would be better for everybody except those who are currently dermMDs and who happen to be the ones who are against it.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

What kinda second rate school doesn't have a derm rotation? I would stay away.

 

[lord_jeebus]

Is there a dermatology Department? That may be a more important question.

 

[mikedc813]

Not having a derm program at your school can make life more difficult, but not impossible if derm is what you truly want (you have a long way to go, but hey some people know early on). You will have to do away rotations, which are both expensive and inconvenient. I can only imagine how much harder it would have been for me to match into rad onc without a home program. It also allowed the faculty to get to know me very well and thus write great letters of rec. Assuming you have the board scores and grades to make yourself competitive for derm in a couple of years, I would choose a school with a derm residency program. It can make a big difference.

 

[Law2Doc]

I know it's common, but if you already go somewhere that has one of the best residencies in what you want to do (or at least one of the residency programs you are really really interested in applying to), so much the better right? 😉 Given the choice, I'd just really rather not,

Not a good approach. If you are applying for an ultra competitive field, you are going to want to do at least one away rotation anyway, even if your home school is the best. Most people will want to hedge their bets by auditioning at multiple places. Also most derm programs only take 1-3 people,and often don't fill up with just locals. Plan to spend more than most if you are shooting for a very competitive field, both in terms of away rotations, and in number of interviews.

 

[aviary17]

Thank you so much for your insights. Law2Doc, I wasn't aware that you are a more competitive applicant for residency if you have rotated at another institution. Why is that? Simply making connections, or is it more about practicing medicine in an institution other than that in which you were "raised"?

 

[skinwoman]

I'm so ashamed of the reputation that derms have established, and also of those whose practice relies exclusively on elective, cosmetic procedures. I've wanted to be a dermatologist since age 14, and my goal is now more specifically to become a clinical professor of dermatology so I can work with underserved populations, engage my passion for teaching AND skin, and hopefully avoid the whole "Restalyne and Botox" game. However, I always feel that I need to say that whole spiel after telling people I'm interested in dermatology, less they think I'm just another Dr. 90210 wannabe.

And although I'm not yet in med school, I look forward to attending a university that has a derm department so I can get involved in the research, mentorship, and rotational opportunities that I've been anticipating for so long. Of course, I'm keeping my mind open with the knowledge that everything could change, but why not follow your passion?

 

[Law2Doc]

Thank you so much for your insights. Law2Doc, I wasn't aware that you are a more competitive applicant for residency if you have rotated at another institution. Why is that? Simply making connections, or is it more about practicing medicine in an institution other than that in which you were "raised"?

You are "auditioning" for the job. Some people actually call away rotations audition rotations. The program gets to see you "in action" for a month. That insight is regarded as much more useful than just meeting you for a few hours on an interview day. Think about it -- if you were going to hire somebody for a job, who would you prefer -- somebody who looks good on paper but you only met them briefly on a single afternoon, or someone you've actually had the opportunity to work with for a month.

So if you do a good job, make friends in the department, it absolutely helps. Also in a lot of programs, the residents get a very real vote, and so if they know you over the course of the month, it tends to reflect more favorably than just trying to hit it off at the pre-interview dinner. So yes it's somewhat about making connections, but much more about showing off your stuff. So when possible if a person feels that they give a good impression, they are going to want to do one or more of these auditions because that way the program gets a realistic picture of them and they don't have to rely so much on how good they sold themselves on paper as compared to the hundreds of others vying for each spot.

 

[werd]

surprised that you are looking that far ahead... to be honest, it probaby is harder to break into derm if your school doesn't have an elective and esp. if there's no derm department. there's a few reasons why, the first of which is the statistics of it... i read a paper one time saying that, of those who match, 35% or so match at home institution and 25% match at an away they rotated at. it's easier to get involved in papers, get to know a program well, and obtain strong advocates if the papers/advocates are coming from your own institution. it's probably a relative detriment toward getting into derm but not a huge one and probably shouldn't be a dealbreaker for picking a med school in my opinion.

it's probably most important to go to a school you like so that you'll stay sane during med school and can thrive and do well on boards. good luck.

just to comment on the "derm shortage" discussion, the shortage is recognized as a problem and each year there are 10-20 more residency spots than the last. it's slow to expand because there are a lot of requirements before starting or expanding a residency program. most derm departments are small and it's tough to come up with the requirements/resources to begin training residents.

 

[Long Dong]

Hi, I plan to go into derm, and a school I am strongly considering offers no derm elective to speak of. Is this a problem for when I apply to residencies? Thank you.

Yes.

 

[Dral]

I know it's common, but if you already go somewhere that has one of the best residencies in what you want to do (or at least one of the residency programs you are really really interested in applying to), so much the better right? 😉 Given the choice, I'd just really rather not, especially considering that some schools may already require you to take a rotation kind of away from the city where the main campus is.

This can vary depending on what you plan to go into ultimately. I would not keep the attitude of not wanting to do an away rotation. As Lawdoc said, it's a chance to audition and in essence interview for a month for what will be your future job/education. Some specialties have people putting out applications for 30, 50, even close to 90 apps (derm), hoping for a few interviews to eventually match somewhere (makes applying to med school seem not as much of a big deal as we all make/made it out to be). Fields like Ortho EXPECT you to do at least 1 away rotation if not 2 or 3. Many other surgery subs expect it as well. It's just how it is, so you should stay open to the idea depending on the situation.

Also, in general staying at the same place for all your education means you are inherently limiting your educational experiences. Having a school that forces you to do aways (like during 3rd year) is actually nice, since you get the experience under your belt, and the school usually takes some responsibility for your housing (as of now, I'm 3.5 hours away from my school on a rotation staying in my own apartment totally paid for by my school...er, and my tuition I suppose). Anyway, doing an away and doing it well shows people (PD's, housestaff, attendings) that you are willing to experience new things and can adapt to new situations and handle them with ease...of course that's assuming one is capable of adapting that way.

 

[scarletgirl777]

This can vary depending on what you plan to go into ultimately. I would not keep the attitude of not wanting to do an away rotation. As Lawdoc said, it's a chance to audition and in essence interview for a month for what will be your future job/education. Some specialties have people putting out applications for 30, 50, even close to 90 apps (derm), hoping for a few interviews to eventually match somewhere (makes applying to med school seem not as much of a big deal as we all make/made it out to be). Fields like Ortho EXPECT you to do at least 1 away rotation if not 2 or 3. Many other surgery subs expect it as well. It's just how it is, so you should stay open to the idea depending on the situation.

Also, in general staying at the same place for all your education means you are inherently limiting your educational experiences. Having a school that forces you to do aways (like during 3rd year) is actually nice, since you get the experience under your belt, and the school usually takes some responsibility for your housing (as of now, I'm 3.5 hours away from my school on a rotation staying in my own apartment totally paid for by my school...er, and my tuition I suppose). Anyway, doing an away and doing it well shows people (PD's, housestaff, attendings) that you are willing to experience new things and can adapt to new situations and handle them with ease...of course that's assuming one is capable of adapting that way.

I guess I get both of your points, but that sucks, because aways cost money and I'm guessing they're semi-competitive since there's an actual application process involved...🙁 EDIT: Also, that number of residency applications is madness. Will it never end???

 

[redlight]

just curious: how competitive is ENT compared to derm? i know a guy who applied to 20+ residencies, got 5-10 interviews, eventually matched at unc. he says in hindsight he applied to way too many places.. i dont know his stats; he could have been a beast, but perhaps most people err on the superovercautious side and that super inflates the number of residencies people apply to to rediculous numbers (like 90..)

 

[JeetKuneDo]

Dunno about above, but I sure hope EM doesn't get too crazy; I sure would like to get my hands one day on an EM res and shake it like it owes me money.

 

[Handy388]

how about radiology?

 

[Handy388]

I know a school that does not have a derm department but does have a derm elective in the community. could we be talking about the same school? look under the internal medicine category of its elective list.

 

[bluesmd]

how do i know if a school has an elective? is this really important. i wasn't really thinking about this whole residency thing. i feel behind already. people keeping talking about pre-studying, boards and residency. jeez pre-meds freak me out!

 

[Long Dong]

If you are 100% sure you want to do derm make sure the school you choose has a derm department, if it does then it would have an elective. There a plenty of people who know they want to do derm from day 1 of med school usually parents are dermatologist and they are slated to take over the practice. In derm who you know is more important then what you know, so start making connections like yesterday. I know people who published derm stuff as an undergrad and continued it into med school. I know people who came out of the womb with neonatal acne and knew they wanted to become a dermatologist.

 

[scarletgirl777]

If you are 100% sure you want to do derm make sure the school you choose has a derm department, if it does then it would have an elective. There a plenty of people who know they want to do derm from day 1 of med school usually parents are dermatologist and they are slated to take over the practice. In derm who you know is more important then what you know, so start making connections like yesterday. I know people who published derm stuff as an undergrad and continued it into med school. I know people who came out of the womb with neonatal acne and knew they wanted to become a dermatologist.

Also, I second bluesmd's comment. I mean, is there a list of departments/electives/residency programs that not every med school would necessarily have so we can check if our school of choice has them?

 

[Long Dong]

how do i know if a school has an elective? is this really important. i wasn't really thinking about this whole residency thing. i feel behind already. people keeping talking about pre-studying, boards and residency. jeez pre-meds freak me out!

If you thin pre-meds freak you out wait until you meet the gunner med student, with photographic memory who wants plasitcs or derm at all cost. Then you have something to be scared about.

Also, I second bluesmd's comment. I mean, is there a list of departments/electives/residency programs that not every med school would necessarily have so we can check if our school of choice has them?

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[DermViser]

I'm so ashamed of the reputation that derms have established, and also of those whose practice relies exclusively on elective, cosmetic procedures. I've wanted to be a dermatologist since age 14, and my goal is now more specifically to become a clinical professor of dermatology so I can work with underserved populations, engage my passion for teaching AND skin, and hopefully avoid the whole "Restalyne and Botox" game. However, I always feel that I need to say that whole spiel after telling people I'm interested in dermatology, less they think I'm just another Dr. 90210 wannabe.

And although I'm not yet in med school, I look forward to attending a university that has a derm department so I can get involved in the research, mentorship, and rotational opportunities that I've been anticipating for so long. Of course, I'm keeping my mind open with the knowledge that everything could change, but why not follow your passion?

Did you end up following your passion?

 

[235009]

Did you end up following your passion?

Instead of necrobumping a 5 yr old thread you should've just sent that person a PM. I expected more from a professional SDNer like yourself.

 

[DermViser]

Instead of necrobumping a 5 yr old Thea's you should've just sent that person a PM. I expected more from a professional SDNer like yourself.

I realized after I posted it was a not new thread.