No More Jobs?!?!

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Interesting video. I think there are plenty of jobs for pharmacists, so long as CVS and Walgreen's keep opening up stores across the street from each other. Although, I'd like to see pharmacists working more on the healthcare team like in the article below

hospital-pharmacists-play-bigger-role-in-patient-care

Someone brought up an important point in the link to the poster's video, saying pharmacists aren't always viewed as the expert on drugs. It reminded of me that famous curb your enthusiasm episode where his doctor recommends one drug and the pharmacist recommends the other.

Doctor or Pharmacist?
 
I think there are plenty of jobs for pharmacists, so long as CVS and Walgreen's keep opening up stores across the street from each other.

Welcome to 2003.

Although, I'd like to see pharmacists working more on the healthcare team like in the article below

Welcome to 2007.
 
I don't understand the scare of Pharmacists having trouble getting jobs. Perhaps it's because my fellow pre-pharmacy friends who got accepted to UBuffalo think that Pharmacy = Retail. But with all these CVS, Walgreens, Rite-Aids... I really don't understand it.

The only thing I know is owning your own pharmacy is pretty much a no-go with these retail chains taking over. Or at least, in the Northeast.

Basically is the job market prospects for Pharmacy the field as a whole or just Retail?
 
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I don't understand the scare of Pharmacists having trouble getting jobs. Perhaps it's because my fellow pre-pharmacy friends who got accepted to UBuffalo think that Pharmacy = Retail. But with all these CVS, Walgreens, Rite-Aids... I really don't understand it.

The only thing I know is owning your own pharmacy is pretty much a no-go with these retail chains taking over. Or at least, in the Northeast.

Basically is the job market prospects for Pharmacy the field as a whole or just Retail?

Job market prospects for pharmacy is difficult as a whole. A large influx of schools opening up in the past 10 years resulted in a larger-than-average wave of incoming PharmDs. The demand for pharmacists is not able to shift as quickly to accomodate for the increased supply which is why you don't seen the sign-on bonuses and other perks. The ball is not the pharmacists' side of the court and the companies are taking advantage of this.

But then again, the entire job market sucks so it's not just pharmacy (if that makes you sleep a little easier).
 
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I have 1 full time job and 2 per diem jobs in NYC, work around 55 hours a week.

If you can't find jobs it's because you're not in with the right people.

Full time job, I had a rotation at a hospital in the network and got a nice recommendation.

Per diem at independent pharmacy, my best friends dad knew the owner.

Per diem at another hospital, my favorite professor is a clinical pharmacy manager there and recommended me.

My pharm school GPA = 2.3
 
This is ridiculous; pharmacy is such a versatile degree; retail and hospital pharmacy are not the only jobs available for pharmacists. There are plenty of jobs in the pharmaceutical industry; and plenty of jobs in clinical research and clinical trials for a pharmacist;
 
This is ridiculous; pharmacy is such a versatile degree; retail and hospital pharmacy are not the only jobs available for pharmacists. There are plenty of jobs in the pharmaceutical industry; and plenty of jobs in clinical research and clinical trials for a pharmacist;

That's exactly what I was going to say. There are plenty of jobs in the industry so please do not worry.
 
That's exactly what I was going to say. There are plenty of jobs in the industry so please do not worry.

Please point me to these jobs. Do NOT use the likes of Monster or Indeed. Please share at least 3 links directly from a company that a new grad would be able to get. Experience and/or residency is something you have to attain so keep that in mind if you do find these plentiful job links.
 
This is ridiculous; pharmacy is such a versatile degree; retail and hospital pharmacy are not the only jobs available for pharmacists. There are plenty of jobs in the pharmaceutical industry; and plenty of jobs in clinical research and clinical trials for a pharmacist;

And what do you think qualifies a new PharmD grad with no industry experience? Not to mention, the PharmD education lacks adequate research methodology training for such positions. There are plenty of PhDs out there to fill in those gaps. Even then, they want PhDs with X experience. If you haven't had work experience or industry internships, you're going to have a heck of a time competing.

The "new" PharmDs I've encountered in industry are in sales/marketing. In fact, I had one tell me how wonderful it felt to save people by visiting various providers to tell them about how much better Nexium is. Another told me how important it was to talk to providers about how their newer SSRI would change lives.

Clinical research? Maaaybe...again, if you have experience. The MD/PhDs and DNPs have a grasp on those from what I've seen.
 
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I have 1 full time job and 2 per diem jobs in NYC, work around 55 hours a week.

If you can't find jobs it's because you're not in with the right people.

Full time job, I had a rotation at a hospital in the network and got a nice recommendation.

Per diem at independent pharmacy, my best friends dad knew the owner.

Per diem at another hospital, my favorite professor is a clinical pharmacy manager there and recommended me.

My pharm school GPA = 2.3

So who did you offer to cut in the alley?
 
Clinical research? Maaaybe...again, if you have experience. The MD/PhDs and DNPs have a grasp on those from what I've seen.

There are some baller PharmD researchers out there. At least in ID, I'd say go do a fellowship under Rybak or Lodise and you'd be good to go - Rybak, among other things, was an author on the IDSA MRSA and Vancomycin guidelines while Lodise has been published in CID enough times to acquire demigod status:meanie:
 
Please point me to these jobs. Do NOT use the likes of Monster or Indeed. Please share at least 3 links directly from a company that a new grad would be able to get. Experience and/or residency is something you have to attain so keep that in mind if you do find these plentiful job links.

TBF, if online searches are the only way you know to find a job then it is no wonder why people have such a hard time finding jobs.
 
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Yes the job market is down. This is due to a few things:

1) New schools
2) Recession
3) Ability for people over 65 to continue working in the profession fairly easily

The main problem here is that:

1) More new schools are still opening, when as others pointed out are not needed.

2) Recession- We are not going to get back to pre-recession levels of growth for a while, thus the need for pharmacists is not going to increase quite as much as many predicted over the next 5-10 years.

3) People are going to continue to work past 65. SS was a failure and many did not plan well for retirement, thus they are stuck working a few extra years so they can live decent the rest of their lives. This is the upside for the next few years as atm there is a significant percentage of the population at or nearing retirement age, thus there will be a trickle of openings occurring as these pharmacists retire. However, it will not be enough to offset rates of new grads.

4) Obamacare- No one knows exactly how healthcare will change once this is fully implemented. However, I have not seen any predictions that show a benefit for pharmacy due to it.
 
TBF, if online searches are the only way you know to find a job then it is no wonder why people have such a hard time finding jobs.

Share your wisdom then on how an average new grad with average networking skills will attain these plentiful jobs in industry that the pre-pharmer mentioned were out there. Again, keep in mind that fellowships/residencies in industry are competitive.
 
There are some baller PharmD researchers out there. At least in ID, I'd say go do a fellowship under Rybak or Lodise and you'd be good to go - Rybak, among other things, was an author on the IDSA MRSA and Vancomycin guidelines while Lodise has been published in CID enough times to acquire demigod status:meanie:

Baller PharmDs with experience and publications 😉
 
That's exactly what I was going to say. There are plenty of jobs in the industry so please do not worry.

This is kind of a naive statement, but I'll let you do your own research as to why.
 
TBF, if online searches are the only way you know to find a job then it is no wonder why people have such a hard time finding jobs.

Yeah... online only search = doomed to fail. I mean I do it anyway since I've got an efficient system in place (it's like playing the lotto), but all of my job prospects/etc... came from being direct and actually contacting decision makers either directly, through introduction, or by proxy.

lol @ applying online, i guess this is what happens when you don't have real world experience and all the stuff you've ever applied for has been online.
 
Please point me to these jobs. Do NOT use the likes of Monster or Indeed. Please share at least 3 links directly from a company that a new grad would be able to get. Experience and/or residency is something you have to attain so keep that in mind if you do find these plentiful job links.

2 of my jobs were posted on Indeed.com, my connections came into effect when HR called.
 
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2 of my jobs were posted on Indeed.com, my connections came into effect when HR called.

And?

You even mentioned that your connections helped you out so why bother posting this when we both know job hunting through Indeed or Monster is not the best way to get a job?
 
And?

You even mentioned that your connections helped you out so why bother posting this when we both know job hunting through Indeed or Monster is not the best way to get a job?

My connections helped me out AFTER the hr guys contacted me.
 
Yeah... online only search = doomed to fail. I mean I do it anyway since I've got an efficient system in place (it's like playing the lotto), but all of my job prospects/etc... came from being direct and actually contacting decision makers either directly, through introduction, or by proxy.

lol @ applying online, i guess this is what happens when you don't have real world experience and all the stuff you've ever applied for has been online.

lol @ stating the obvious. Do you think your skills will be matched by the majority of these prepharm students going to diploma mills? Probably not.
 
My connections helped me out AFTER the hr guys contacted me.

Again, your connections helped you out. I'm talking about the average Joe applying without knowing anyone to help them stand out.
 
I have 1 full time job and 2 per diem jobs in NYC, work around 55 hours a week.

If you can't find jobs it's because you're not in with the right people.

Full time job, I had a rotation at a hospital in the network and got a nice recommendation.

Per diem at independent pharmacy, my best friends dad knew the owner.

Per diem at another hospital, my favorite professor is a clinical pharmacy manager there and recommended me.

My pharm school GPA = 2.3

^ Awesome, sounds like you used your time well.

Again, your connections helped you out. I'm talking about the average Joe applying without knowing anyone to help them stand out.

^ The average Joe is going to live an average life with average satisfaction. You can't begrudge someone for making then using connections.
 
lol @ stating the obvious. Do you think your skills will be matched by the majority of these prepharm students going to diploma mills? Probably not.

lol...doubt it. success in this area actually requires getting up and working the room, not sitting in the library getting the best grades evarrrr
 
Thanks for the recommendations! I love a good read

The have a nice conflict is especially useful in work situations... 🙂


How to work a room is a little bit outdated (refers to online etiquette and mentions message boards and AOL) but the premises are the same. Plus it's a fun read.
 
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And what do you think qualifies a new PharmD grad with no industry experience? Not to mention, the PharmD education lacks adequate research methodology training for such positions. There are plenty of PhDs out there to fill in those gaps. Even then, they want PhDs with X experience. If you haven't had work experience or industry internships, you're going to have a heck of a time competing.

The "new" PharmDs I've encountered in industry are in sales/marketing. In fact, I had one tell me how wonderful it felt to save people by visiting various providers to tell them about how much better Nexium is. Another told me how important it was to talk to providers about how their newer SSRI would change lives.

Clinical research? Maaaybe...again, if you have experience. The MD/PhDs and DNPs have a grasp on those from what I've seen.


Nice counter point;
but I'm not saying that when you graduate you are going to get 10 calls a day from companies looking for new hires;; that doesn't even happen to MD's. You're going to have to dig through some dirt to get a good job....in any field....

By the way, where are you looking; cause if you're looking in big cities like DC, Baltimore, Seattle, etc; then you can say that the market is saturated;

but if you look in "minor cities" then you could find a job easy...

And besides; a lot of schools are coming up with dual degrees now and you could double your qualifications with them
 
Nice counter point;
but I'm not saying that when you graduate you are going to get 10 calls a day from companies looking for new hires;; that doesn't even happen to MD's. You're going to have to dig through some dirt to get a good job....in any field....

By the way, where are you looking; cause if you're looking in big cities like DC, Baltimore, Seattle, etc; then you can say that the market is saturated;

but if you look in "minor cities" then you could find a job easy...

And besides; a lot of schools are coming up with dual degrees now and you could double your qualifications with them

My colleagues (PhDs) were offered multiple positions all within large cities.

What I'm saying is that you just need to build a different skill set that most PharmD programs don't focus on.

Yes, there are dual degree programs (I'm in one) but you add on a few years and life sucks while you do it. PharmDs might start jumping on that bandwagon if they see their options decline as pharmacists. The difference is, you REALLY, REALLY have to want to do a PhD AND do a PhD in a certain track. Trust me. It's not a "I just need to get through this class..." mentality you see in pharmacy school. You have to learn it, retain it, and apply it or you WILL fail your oral and comprehensive exams. Then there is dissertation......

There is a considerable difference in potential job options between PhD types-- drug design versus pharmacology versus clinical research, etc. as well.

As for schools starting up dual degree programs? We'll see what happens with that. School and faculty reputation holds a lot more weight when you're talking PhD job options, including academia.

There are plenty of super awesome dual degree programs and unicorn faculty out there but (1) you have to get in, in the first place, (2) you have to be a good fit for the program, and it has to fit your needs, (3) your faculty mentors and focus of the program need to support your career goals, and (4) publish, publish, publish. Oh and grants-- lots and lots of grant writing.... That is, you have to like what you're doing or you'll be horribly miserable.

It's a lot of work for doing it just because there were no jobs elsewhere.

EDIT: don't get me wrong when I say "life sucks". I love, love, love what I'm doing. It's just difficult to manage everything-- classes, research, seminar presentations, grant writing, etc. In my field you have to learn various software that involves a certain level of programming, which can be a PITA. Some programs require regular teaching/TA'ing on top of everything else. Mine makes it optional except for the lectures you do as part of a teaching class (yes, they teach us how to teach! And write/validate exams, syllabi, active learning exercises, TBL, etc.). But those of us going into academia enjoy getting experience. I love proctoring exams too 😀 :meanie:
 
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Again, your connections helped you out. I'm talking about the average Joe applying without knowing anyone to help them stand out.

The average Joe should know people. I've seen a lot of students who get 4.0s during their classroom time and when it comes to rotations they just suck because they can't translate it.

I've had a 2 students come thru my main hospital for their institutional rotation. Now, I'm not their "preceptor" but since they usually start around 1PM here, they work with me for the most part. Both of them have asked me for LORs.

Student # 1 - Socially awkward guy. All he talks about how he loves pharmacy and how he is so interested in the medicinal chemistry aspect of it and how fascinating it is. Totally freezes up when we put him on the spot or pimp him for answers.

Student #2 - Cool girl. Talks about everything. Really bubbly personality. Answers the questions/doesn't freeze up during pimp sessions.

#1 might get pretty much a cookie cutter LOR that looks like all the other LORs out there.
#2 is gonna get an awesome LOR.

Potential bias towards #2 is that she is cute and flirts with me. #1 could neutralize that if he was a "bro/sports buff".
 
Student # 1 - Socially awkward guy. All he talks about how he loves pharmacy and how he is so interested in the medicinal chemistry aspect of it and how fascinating it is. Totally freezes up when we put him on the spot or pimp him for answers.

Student #2 - Cool girl. Talks about everything. Really bubbly personality. Answers the questions/doesn't freeze up during pimp sessions.

#1 might get pretty much a cookie cutter LOR that looks like all the other LORs out there.
#2 is gonna get an awesome LOR.

Potential bias towards #2 is that she is cute and flirts with me. #1 could neutralize that if he was a "bro/sports buff".

What the hell does pimping a person for answers or pimp sessions even mean lol? I don't imagine that it involves an individual who manages prostitutes. :laugh:
 
What the hell does pimping a person for answers or pimp sessions even mean lol? I don't imagine that it involves an individual who manages prostitutes. :laugh:

This means questioning the hell out of them to see how fast they can think on their feet.
 
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